YTSEJAM Digest 621
Today's Topics:
1) DT & Yes
by Christopher Taylor Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
2) Caselinr and Prog rock vs Prog Metal
by Adam Soudure <gillius@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
3) caselinr again
by Adam Soudure <gillius@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
4) Dream Theater via Moore Street
by Rohit Modak <rmm30@columbia.edu>
5) Re: DT & Yes
by James Bickers <jbickers@iglou.com>
6) Re: YES
by James Peele <jpeele@unf6.cis.unf.edu>
7) Re: Caselinr and Prog rock vs Prog Metal
by James Bako <jbako01@barney.poly.edu>
8) IME one more time...
by MikeP81576@aol.com
9) Something Interesting
by TTubbiola@aol.com
10) Re: YES
by Stephen Bajzek <MadMax+@CMU.EDU>
11) Re: YES
by James Bickers <jbickers@iglou.com>
12) What's with that?
by ahlberg@students.wisc.edu (ERIK)
13) Re: Something Interesting
by drkhoe@netcom.com (Dr. Mosh)
14) DT going gold?
by AirDance@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 04:17:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Christopher Taylor Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: DT & Yes
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412180449.A11470-0100000@am.ucsc.edu>
Well, I got flamed in alt.music.yes for daring to say that DT was better
than Yes, but maybe I'll find a more sympathetic ear here :)
I am a Yes fan, though only recently (since 91 or so)
I don't like Close to the Edge. I know, it's heretical for a Yes fan,
but it's true. I find the album to lack direction. It goes all over the
place, sure it's progressive, but it's not "rock". It just doesn't seem
to flow from one idea to another, but it plods, changes. plods,
changes... This is speaking of the song, not the album as a whole. I
like And You and I, but feel similarly about SIberian Khatru as I do
about CTTE. It's sort of the epitome of what people refer to as the
"pretentious musical masturbation" of prog music. I listen to songs like
Metropolis, LtL or AMBI, and I feel like I've gone somewhere. I don't
get that feeling from CTTE.
I do, however, love Fragile. I think that's their best work. I also
like the new Rabin work, so that automatically brands me as a Yes heretic.
I think that Endless Dream is better than some of their older stuff, too.
Oh well. :)
~Chris
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 00:08:22 +0800 (WST)
From: Adam Soudure <gillius@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Caselinr and Prog rock vs Prog Metal
Message-ID: <199412181608.AAA22040@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
Re: CASELINR. I got it from syrinx.umd.edu (the Rush ftp site). The
structure may have changed since the site came back up...
Re: Prog Rock vs Prog Metal. I love btoth styles (as you could probably
see from my sig). To me, prog-rock is the fore-runner of the prog-metal
movement of the late-80's and early 90's and bands like DT and
Queensryche would sound totally different if not for the great strides
made by bands like Rush, Yes, Kansas, ELP King Crimson, Frank Zappa (I
am sure Mike P could vouch for Zappa) etc On that basis, here are my
recommendations for prog-mettalers who want to investigate prog-rock,
and find it not heavy enough...
ELP (Emerson,Lake and Palmer): we are talking ELP, Tarkus and Brain
Salad Surgery here. They are very heavy in parts and should satisfy the
metallers. What makes ELP heavy is the use of some really cool modes to
give a very gothic sound (echos of Bartok and Stravinsky in spots)
King Crimson: Red and Larks Tongue in Aspic. These are pretty heavy
albums...you think DT does mind bending time changes, check out some of
RObert Fripps compositions, they are very dense and feature some of the
weirdest music I have ever heard (stuff in 17/8 and 19/16 to name a
couiple)
Yes: Close to the Edge and Relayer. every prog head should have these
albums. They are 20th century classical music IMHO. The way the songs
are orchestrated (especially And You And I & Gates of Delirium) set the
standard for QR, DT, Rush, FW etc etc
There are many other, but those should get you started. Other will
contribute no doubt :)
Adam
-- *** RUSH ELP YES QUEEN QUEENSRYCHE FATES-WARNING KING'S-X *** *** Adam Soudure can be reached at: *** *** gillius@tartarus.uwa.edu.au *** *** *** *** Keyboard Player and OS/2 User *** *** *** *** IRON-MAIDEN MOTORHEAD GENESIS KANSAS TRIUMPH K-CRIMSON***------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 00:13:52 +0800 (WST) From: Adam Soudure <gillius@tartarus.uwa.edu.au> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: caselinr again Message-ID: <199412181613.AAA19527@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>
look in syrinx.umd.edu under the directory rush/programs/label
should be called cslnrxx or something...
hope that helps you out there :)
Adam -- *** RUSH ELP YES QUEEN QUEENSRYCHE FATES-WARNING KING'S-X *** *** Adam Soudure can be reached at: *** *** gillius@tartarus.uwa.edu.au *** *** *** *** Keyboard Player and OS/2 User *** *** *** *** IRON-MAIDEN MOTORHEAD GENESIS KANSAS TRIUMPH K-CRIMSON***
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 11:31:49 -0500 (EST) From: Rohit Modak <rmm30@columbia.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Dream Theater via Moore Street Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941218112846.9150A-100000@aloha.cc.columbia.edu>
I was reading the Village Voice, and what should I come across but an ad for The Sisters Karamazov, an off-broadway play. What struck me as interesting (and why I'm telling all of you this story) is the location of the playhouse:
"One Dream Theater - 232 West Broadway (Enter on N. Moore Street)
__________________________________________________________________________ Rohit Modak rmm30@columbia.edu
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 12:20:22 -0500 (EST) From: James Bickers <jbickers@iglou.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: DT & Yes Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941218121638.18941A-100000@iglou>
> I don't like Close to the Edge. I know, it's heretical for a Yes fan, > but it's true. I find the album to lack direction. It goes all over the > place, sure it's progressive, but it's not "rock". It just doesn't seem > to flow from one idea to another, but it plods, changes. plods, > changes... This is speaking of the song, not the album as a whole. I > like And You and I, but feel similarly about SIberian Khatru as I do > about CTTE. It's sort of the epitome of what people refer to as the > "pretentious musical masturbation" of prog music. I listen to songs like > Metropolis, LtL or AMBI, and I feel like I've gone somewhere. I don't > get that feeling from CTTE.
I see what you mean, and have felt that way at times. I think that the rambling musicianship of Yes is what attracts some people...those people who are bored with musical convention and think that that is the only possible departure.
> > I do, however, love Fragile. I think that's their best work. I also > like the new Rabin work, so that automatically brands me as a Yes heretic. > I think that Endless Dream is better than some of their older stuff, too.
Speaking as a fan of older Yes, I have a hard time with Rabin's stuff. I really think there are two completely different bands there, much like there are two (or more, depending on who you are talking to) different King Crimsons, another of my favorite bands. That doesn't mean the new Yes is _bad_...it's just too different from the old for stuck-in-the-muds like myself to swallow.
My .02,
James
---------------------------------------------------- Full Service Printing * Typesetting * Graphic Design Continuous Forms * Computer Checks I M A G E S and W O R D S for more information, finger jbickers@iglou.com
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 12:16:36 -0500 From: James Peele <jpeele@unf6.cis.unf.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: YES Message-ID: <Pine.DYN.3.91.941218121331.28217A-100000@unf6.cis.unf.edu>
Yes is one of the best bands in the universe. I have every official CD from Yes and ABWH. I'd be confused if someone liked DT but not Yes (especially old Yes). JP is highly influenced by Steve Howe.
My absolute favorite band of all time is none other than RUSH...
No more exams, Jay Peele (INFERNO)
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 14:39:23 -0500 (EST) From: James Bako <jbako01@barney.poly.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: Caselinr and Prog rock vs Prog Metal Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9412181426.A6577-0100000@barney>
On Sun, 18 Dec 1994, Adam Soudure wrote:
> ELP (Emerson,Lake and Palmer): we are talking ELP, Tarkus and Brain > Salad Surgery here. They are very heavy in parts and should satisfy the > metallers. What makes ELP heavy is the use of some really cool modes to > give a very gothic sound (echos of Bartok and Stravinsky in spots) > The best place to start if you're interested in getting into ELP would be the Return of The Manticore box set. The only fault lies in that the long epics are taken somewhat out of their album context, but if you're looking for the be-all, end-all of ELP, this is as close as you can get.
Another band worth mentioning would be the Italian prog band PFM. They were around during the early-mid-70's. Sure the lyrics are in Italian, but they play with enough feeling to make you forget about them. Lots of flutes and violins, and strong songs make the band a pleasure to listen to. Their stuff may be hard to find, since I think they're only available as imports.
And of course, for more prog. check out alt.music.progressive on Usenet.
James Bako jbako01@barney.poly.edu Polytechnic University Brooklyn, New York
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 16:41:25 -0500 From: MikeP81576@aol.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: IME one more time... Message-ID: <941218164125_1234191@aol.com>
To anyone who has thge IME cd - is Armando Barg part of the band (i.e. is he on the cd)? I don't know what gave me the impression that he was just a touring part of the group - maybe that he looks so much older than the other guys in the band. Then again, I can't really imagine IME's sound without him.
Oh yeah, whatever happened to the video for CiaW? There was talk about it when the song was mentioned as the next single, but not a word since. Any news?
Mike P
"Tonight, the prophet gets paid." - Wolfstone
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 21:18:39 -0500 From: TTubbiola@aol.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Something Interesting Message-ID: <941218211741_1450452@aol.com>
I've heard nothing from Awake on LA Radio but, I heard a comercial for Tower Records the other day and they were using LIE as the background music!
Time to start shopping at Tower.
"The spider in the window" |<Dream Theater: Voices> "The angel in the pool" | "The old man takes the poison" | Tom Tubbiola "Now the widow makes the rules"| TTubbiola@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 18:12:01 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Bajzek <MadMax+@CMU.EDU> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: YES Message-ID: <sixA71i00iUx43l2R9@andrew.cmu.edu>
Excerpts from mail: 18-Dec-94 Re: YES by James Peele@unf6.cis.unf > Yes is one of the best bands in the universe. I have every official CD > from Yes and ABWH. I'd be confused if someone liked DT but not Yes > (especially old Yes). JP is highly influenced by Steve Howe. >
Well, I like DT, and can't stand Yes...not that I find anything wrong with their music, but the singing irritates the hell out of me. Just a personal taste thing, but I am really turned off by Jon Anderson's voice, and find it very difficult to listen to. To me it sounds like a cross between Sting and Alvin and the chipmonks, neither of which have ever impressed me.
It sucks, too, because the music is really good and I just can't get into it because of the vocals. I have the same problem with Rush, but to a lesser extent. In their case I can ignore the vocals and listen to the music. But Geddy's singing has kept them from being one of my favorite bands.
-max ---------------------------------------------------------- Like a scream but sort of silent, living off my nightmares Voices dismembering me ---------------------------------------------------------- derek derek derek derek derek
(dereks courtesy of the derek fan club)
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 00:22:31 -0500 (EST) From: James Bickers <jbickers@iglou.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: YES Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.941219002102.6667A-100000@iglou>
On Sun, 18 Dec 1994, James Peele wrote:
> Yes is one of the best bands in the universe. I have every official CD > from Yes and ABWH. I'd be confused if someone liked DT but not Yes > (especially old Yes). JP is highly influenced by Steve Howe.
No arguments here. I may be wrong, but I would venture to say that Yes was _one_ of the first rock bands ever to fully utilize the concept of multi-part songs, I.E. part A, part B, etc. I'd be real surprized if most of the members of DT weren't Yes fans.
James
---------------------------------------------------- Full Service Printing * Typesetting * Graphic Design Continuous Forms * Computer Checks I M A G E S and W O R D S for more information, finger jbickers@iglou.com
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 23:27:16 -0600 From: ahlberg@students.wisc.edu (ERIK) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: What's with that? Message-ID: <199412190527.XAA40183@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Hello everyone. I will be brief...what is with the cover of WDADU? Who is that guy? Why is his nipple going to be burnt with the DT logo? I was just listening to Ytsejam, when it occured to me that the cover seemed a tinge odd...Hmmm.
By the way, I can get copies of WDADU for about $20, if anyone is looking.
Later and Take care,
Erik UW-Madison
"You can find all you need in your mind." -Dream Theater 1991
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 00:04:42 PST From: drkhoe@netcom.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: Something Interesting Message-ID: <199412190804.AAA15253@netcom2.netcom.com>
>I've heard nothing from Awake on LA Radio but, I heard a comercial for Tower >Records the other day and they were using LIE as the background music! > >Time to start shopping at Tower. > >"The spider in the window" |<Dream Theater: Voices> >"The angel in the pool" | >"The old man takes the poison" | Tom Tubbiola >"Now the widow makes the rules"| TTubbiola@aol.com
They play Caught in a Web sometimes on KNAC... call em and request more!
CiaW rips over the album live by a mile...
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ REAL: drkhoe@netcom.com + VIRTUAL: drkhoe@gnu.ai.mit.edu *@#$*@#$ *$%&%#$* The Dream Theater Archives: ftp.netcom.com: /pub/dr/drkhoe/dt &*@#$*@$ **%^$#$% WWW: "ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/dr/drkhoe/www/dthome.html" #$**@#*$ *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 03:26:54 -0500 From: AirDance@aol.com To: YTSEJAM@anthor.arastar.com Subject: DT going gold? Message-ID: <941219032648_1695583@aol.com>
MikeP81576@aol.com asked:
> By the way, I may be wrong here, but to whomever mentioned that I&W sold 1 mil > lion copies, I think that it was certified gold, not platinum. That's >100,000 - right?
James Bako <jbako01@barney.poly.edu> replied:
>>Actually, 500,000 is gold. 1M is platinum
PROGnosis1@aol.com replied:
>>>I believe that I&W has sold about a mil worldwide and was certified gold here >>>in the states.
At the aftershow party in Santa Ana, I asked John Myung if _I&W_ had gone platinum yet and he was so shocked, he practically fell over. :) He told me that the album had in fact *not* gone platinum worldwide, it wasn't even close, and it was actually still just "inching" (his word :) it's way towards gold status. I remember seeing a photo in Billboard magazine this past summer of DT receiving gold record awards for _I&W_, but I think it was because it had *shipped* gold, it hadn't actually *sold* 500,000 yet. This is a fairly common practice in the music biz (presenting artists w/gold or platinum records for copies shipped, not copies sold), from what I understand. Hope this clears things up a bit! :)
Jennifer _____________________________________________ air dance@aol.com mriodom@delphi.com
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 621 *************************
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