YTSEJAM Digest 893
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 892
by Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>
2) Rush production
by KWMadden@usa.pipeline.com (Kevin Madden)
3) Dream Theater lyrics - unimportant?
by Maraya007@aol.com
4) Subcon liner notes...
by mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu (Michael Burstin)
5) a couple more things...
by mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu (Michael Burstin)
6) Rush, "progressive"
by Nathan Benjamin Meezan <cheval@leland.Stanford.EDU>
7) Agnosticism
by brax@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Bracken Odiorne)
8) Re: #ytsejam on irc...
by jjens@osf1.gmu.edu (tooler)
9) Metallica Junk/Spuds be Back!
by GVBunker@aol.com
10) Assorted Comments and Suggestions
by euan@waikato.ac.nz
11) various crap...
by mjnewb@ix.netcom.com (Monty Newberry )
12) wdadu
by ESCHER <CP74645@LTU.EDU>
13) Re: Assorted Comments and Suggestions
by Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com>
14) Prog band definition?
by tallen@junix.ju.edu (Trey Allen)
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 04:57:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Michael Bahr <garion@indirect.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 892
Message-ID: <199507161157.EAA23538@bud.indirect.com>
In a recent Jam, someone asked what DT management thought of all my CD
making... well...
I would imagine they'd sleep easier if I _didn't_ do it. I mean,
let's face it, they aren't pulling a royalty off it. OTOH, and I really
hope this is the case, since it's a fans-for-fans effort and I'm
definitely not making much doing it, that they have chosen to overlook
it, and let it happen as a catalyst for band publicity and appeal.
After all, who among you has Subconscious and dosen't have the
albums? And how many copies of Sub exist? 500... how many copies of Awake
were sold in Japan alone? a thousand times that number...
Most of all, I appeal to anyone who might not think much of me or
my little projects, that I mean no harm by it, and I'd hope you'd be
willing to give me the benefit of the doubt.
It is my hope that these special-edition CDs will be what
launches Dream Theater into underground legend, like Rush did in the
1970s with club shows and small-cities appearances.
Other news:
* Acoustic Dreams will be a limited print of 500 again. This is the
preserve the value and specialness of the CD, and also, the less of them
I make, the less chance anyone's going to nail me for bootlegging. I
will let you all know well in advance of when I will take reservations
for it, and you should expect a buying limit (3 copies possibly), even
though I'd rather sell in lots of 10 and 20 and be done with it. :)
* Cygnus is an unlimited print, but I don't foresee my making more than
1000 total copies. As I've mentioned before, in the interest of having it
delivered sooner, they're giving me 500 blanks now and 500 later. I don't
have the storage space for all them boxes! :)
* When Dream and James Unite, coming this fall, will be a limited print,
though HOW limited I've not yet decided. I've finally got all of the
songs on tape or DAT, and what we need now is to upgrade our current version of
Set The Sun, and possibly Light Fuse (the one I have ain't half bad, but
those two are the only ones that aren't soundboard or FM.)
* Other releases "in the works" (basically, in my head) include:
Type O Negative - from an audience dat.. Kisses tour
Public Affection (Live) - Death of a Dictionary plus rarities
Live - from an audience dat... Copper tour
Dream Theater - from an audience dat, ACOS tour
Rush - from some soundboard tapes. 1976, then 1981, maybe others
Take care all!
Mike Bahr, garion@indirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 10:55:23 -0400
From: KWMadden@usa.pipeline.com (Kevin Madden)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Rush production
Message-ID: <9507161455.AA20420@>
On Sun, 16 Jul 1995, 'Mike Patrick' wrote:
>
>To the guy who said that Rupert Hine ruined Presto. Hey. Get some ears.
>The man is a FUCKING GENIUS!!!!!!! And, gosh, they kept him around for
RtB,
>too.
((stuff cut))
>
>Mike Patrick
>mpatrick@holli.com
>
>Still searching for that elusive corner of the Net where civility is all
the
>rage and the content is substantive. Ah, screw it. Who am I kidding?
>
Hmm. Seems like Mike doesn't read his .sig very often... I'm not the guy
who said this but I have ears, last I checked, and while I wouldn't say
Rupert Hine RUINED Presto, I would say that Presto doesn't hold very much
weight as far as sound is concerned. Presto is probably my favorite Rush
disc so I can't consider it ruined, but I have to turn up the volume quite
a bit when it follows another disc in the changer, or tape in the car.
Maybe Hairball can explain what happened??
-- Kevin (kwmadden@usa.pipeline.com)------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:36:16 -0400 From: Maraya007@aol.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Dream Theater lyrics - unimportant? Message-ID: <950716113615_115947982@aol.com>
I don't know how many of you read the progressive metal newsgroup, but those of you that do may have noticed that I've been busily flaming a couple of schmucks that are an absolute disgrace to those of us that call ourselves fans of Dream Theater and of Kevin Moore. I realize many of you dislike what Kevin has done with his new material, but at least on this list, you've all been very mature and intelligent when discussing it, without resorting to throwing personal insults back and forth. I was taken aback by the stupidity of one note in particular that was addressed to me, and while I am perfectly capable of fighting my own battles, I thought I would post and see what the rest of you think of this little prize:
>Subject: Re: Dream Theater-Overrated >From: dtyesfw@aol.com (DT Yes FW) >Date: 16 Jul 1995 07:33:43 -0400 >Message-ID: <3uaten$t97@newsbf02.news.aol.com> > >>Not profound? Not PROFOUND? You need to learn how to read; he's about as >>profound as it gets, if you know how to look. > >I meant the music, you bunghole, not the lyrics. PRofound lyrics are >nothing compared to profound music,as they require no instrumental ability >or complexity(And in fact are often hurt by such). Are you one of those >people who thinks that lyrics are just as important as music, or even more >so? If so, please leave this group, as DT first and foremost, creates >great music, and the lyrics don't really matter if the songs stink.
He stated in previous notes that he basically thinks Kevin's songwriting sucks and that all the great songs on all the DT CDs were written by Petrucci. I'm quite willing to give John credit as a great songwriter, and indeed, there are many of his songs that I claim as favorites of mine, but that Kevin is vastly inferior in comparison is something with which I most strongly disagree - something anyone who knows me would take for granted. <G>
Now, I will gladly retreat under a rock if I prove to be alone in this idea, but don't a large majority of people buy CDs because they can relate to the words in a song as much as they enjoy the music? How much time have you people here on the Jam spent dissecting the allusions and imagery largely present in the lyrics? Nearly as much (if not more) time as the musicians have spent discussing tablatures, I think.
I also think I would do well to stay off that newsgroup; I'm enjoying flaming these idiots _entirely_ too much, however futile it might be, and I'm going to run up a gargantuan bill! Alas, the war against ignorance has a price... namely about two paychecks!
Jaime the Dragon (with a mouthful of hot stuff)
"The name's Dangerously. Johnny Dangerously." "Did you know your name's an adverb?"
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:35:37 -0400 From: mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu (Michael Burstin) To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>, ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Subcon liner notes... Message-ID: <199507161735.NAA03385@cs.brandeis.edu>
I was just catching up on this weekend's Ytsejams, and I noticed on the liner nots that were posted for Subcon that for TLF, It is said that LaBrie's audition was 4 songs, and included TLF, TTT, Metropolis, and UAGM... Anyway, I am not sure about whether Metropolis or UAGM were a part of it, but LTL was definatly one of them... Just take a look at the aud tapes... -- +----------------------------------------------------+-----------------+ | The way your heart sounds makes all the difference | Dream Theater | | Its what decides if you'll endure the pain that we | Images & Words | | all feel. The way your heart beats makes all the +-----------------+ | difference. In LEARNING TO LIVE | Michael Burstin | +----------------------------------------------------+-----------------+ For info about Dream Theater, finger mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/home.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:35:43 -0400 From: mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu (Michael Burstin) To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>, ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: a couple more things... Message-ID: <199507161735.NAA03393@cs.brandeis.edu>
Just a few more comments...
First off, on Kaoru's offer... Do keep in mind that we should be able to get copies of any bonus tracks on future singles... look at Awake... The Japanese version came w/ Eve, as did the Silent Man CD single... although if you are like me... you'll want it ASAP... *grin* (for the record, I have 2 copies of Awake, one US release, bought the day it came out, and one Japanese version, hand delivered to me by Kaoru in Boston...)
Next, someone asked whether Eve would be released w/ the samples... I would highly doubt that they would "re-release" it w/ the samples... since it is an official B-side, and bonus track... -- +----------------------------------------------------+-----------------+ | The way your heart sounds makes all the difference | Dream Theater | | Its what decides if you'll endure the pain that we | Images & Words | | all feel. The way your heart beats makes all the +-----------------+ | difference. In LEARNING TO LIVE | Michael Burstin | +----------------------------------------------------+-----------------+ For info about Dream Theater, finger mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/home.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 11:34:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Benjamin Meezan <cheval@leland.Stanford.EDU> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Rush, "progressive" Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950716112329.12499A-100000@elaine45.Stanford.EDU>
Hey, The last letter had a post about Rupert Hines being a genius and how great it was that he stuck around for Roll The Bones. Well, I don't know a damn thing about producing, but I will say that Roll The Bones is, as far as I'm concerned, the biggest pile of crap that I have listened to from Rush. Counterparts was SO MUCH BETTER, as was Presto, which at least had some great singles (Show, Don't Tell and The Pass, to name a couple). On Roll the Bones, Dreamline was OK and Heresy was at least interesting, but the rest of the album was tame and lame. I don't really know whether that's Hines' fault or whether Rush's writing was just weak for that album, but YUCK.
Oh, and I have two cents about the old argument of who's a progressive band and who isn't.--I just thought "progressive" meant that you were writing and performing according to your own agenda that progressed and grew without necessarily any connection to popular style. To me, what marks a band as progressive isn't its sound or its classical influences or its difficult licks on any one or two albums, but its ability to survive the years with a growing, ever-changing style. At least, that's what I think of when I think of bands like Rush or Yes or Tull or Kansas. As far as I'm concerned, DT is progressive because it bucks the current "alternative" trend, it admits being influenced by progressive bands, and its style has changed over its three albums. Whether they play killer licks and have massive chops shouldn't matter in the description (though most progressive bands, including the ones listed above, did have massive chops).
Just rambling. . .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nathan Meezan, Stanford '97 email- cheval@leland.stanford.edu PO box 10689 Stanford, CA 94309 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 13:07:19 -0600 (MDT) From: brax@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Bracken Odiorne) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Agnosticism Message-ID: <9507161907.AA67970@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Hello all, Just thought I'd approach this. According to Dr. Anthony Flew, Distingguished Professor of Philosophy at York University, Ontario, Agnosticism is "the thesis that, contary to what atheists and theists alike assume, it is either in practice or in principle impossible to know whether or not God exists." I would gather this to mean that it is not a function of an agnostic to not care if God exists (or does not), but rather to simply say that, one cannot prove conclusively one way or the other that She\He\It does or does not.
Discuss amongst yourselves, I'm all Verklempt,
Bracken It would be too easy here for me to include a Nietzsche quote on Cristianity here, so I shall leave this space empty. DOH!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:50:44 -0400 From: jjens@osf1.gmu.edu (tooler) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: #ytsejam on irc... Message-ID: <9507161950.AA19069@osf1.gmu.edu>
howdy folx,
tim a. asked: >hmm...what time do people show up there? i've checked several times >in the last few nights and so far seen nobody.
depends. mon-fri i'm on 7am-4pm EDT (when i'm at work). the w/e's i try and avoid my comp since i deal w/ them 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. my eyes are bad enough; IRCing on the w/e will make me go blind faster :)
|john|
john c. jens, jr. jjens@gmu.edu http://www.site.gmu.edu/~jjens/
"I know nothing of God, or the Devil. I have never seen a vison nor learned a secret that would damn or save my soul." Anne Rice
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 16:21:51 -0400 From: GVBunker@aol.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Metallica Junk/Spuds be Back! Message-ID: <950716162150_116074030@aol.com>
Hey fellow jammers! It's been awhile since I've Posted (May), and since then I've graduated from kollej, gotten married, moved to Cajun Hell (Baton Rouge, LA),
and begun a rewarding Chemical Engi-nerding career at Dow Chemical. Oh Boy.
Anyway! Glad to hear about the ACOS EP. Has there been a final release date issued?
Also, does anyone know what the Hell's been going on with the "MEtallica Lawsuit?" All I know is that when the new management at Electra took over, a contract renegotiation between Metallica and the old Electra managae would not be honored--thus driving them to court. Anyone hear if that's been resolved, and more importantly, if they've begun working on a new release (with hopefully more complex i.e. ...AJFA material on it)?
Yeah, I know...I hate bringing this kind of thing up on the DT board, but the Jam is the only Internetting I really find stimulating.
Thanks again guys & gals!!!
Spuds
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:20:06 +1200 From: euan@waikato.ac.nz To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Assorted Comments and Suggestions Message-ID: <v01510101ac2f301e0b2a@[130.217.176.34]>
1) To all those people talking about christianity and DT. Lay off! This list is supposed to be about discussion of DT and the music they produce - not some ecumenical ideological debate!
2) I say NO! to live on Acoustic Dreams - Mike, that should be a latter project for you. I am eagerly awaiting the Unplugged album too.
3) The other day I was at the international airport picking up my friends girlfriend who flew in from Ireland. Another friend of mine (and also a DT fan) brought along an Awake tape. After listening to Innocence Faded and then later during Voices, she (the girlfriend, that is) commented, "Is this Skid Row? That sounds like Sebastion Bach singing..." After swallowing the lump that formed in my throat and suppressing an angry outburst I informed her that no this was not Skid Row but an American band called Dream Theater to which she replied (this was during the Silent Man), "I like his singing, who is he?" The explanation that followed is too long to be printed here, but suffice it to say that there is another fan in the making.
4) Speaking of Sebastion Bach, I read some where that he is a fan of DT and appeared on stage with them. Is this true and if it is, does anyone have a recording that I can have a copy of for a large amount of money, bootlicking and other assorted ego stroking techniques. Maybe Mike Bahr could put out an unoffical tribute album - other bands doing DT stuff?
Enough mindless raving... - ON WITH THE JAM!!!
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 15:29:06 -0700 From: mjnewb@ix.netcom.com (Monty Newberry ) To: ytsejam@arastar.com Man, Subject: various crap... Message-ID: <199507162229.PAA05544@ix4.ix.netcom.com>
when we were at the free Kansas concert at Union Station in St. Louis (it was freaking HOT - but that's another story), he had the gall to say that he doesn't like Rush because he has taste. HA! What a putz. I just can't get him to like DT either. I don't know what his thing is, but he said he doesn't like it when a song goes for "15 minutes with instrumental stuff, and only, like, two minutes with lyrics/vocals." Whatever. He's more into the hardcore/punk stuff (which I do like some of) and death metal (which I like SOME of also). Oh well, just thought I'd let you all who are having problems getting people into DT that you are not alone.
To Randall Braun, it's spelled: s-u-b-s-i-d-i-a-r-y :).
I do have the last DT interview from the now defunct Headbanger's Ball with JL and MP, along with the video for "Lie." I just wish they wouldn't have cut the end off the song for the video. Oh well, to quote the Stones, "you can't always get what you want."
One more thing and I'll shut up. If anyone could maybe make a copy of Subconcsious (I'll provide the tape), E-Mail me and let me know. Also looking for DT boots if anyone wants to copy some for me (I can provide the tapes here, too). God bless.
Dale R. Newberry
"College enables young people to be stupider longer with minimal jeopardy." - David Letterman
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 19:23:24 -0400 (EDT) From: ESCHER <CP74645@LTU.EDU> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: wdadu Message-ID: <01HSY65BPRV695MZB9@LTU.EDU>
Hi jammers!! Like so many other people, this IS my first post, so I'm hoping that I'm sending this correctly!!
Anyway, I just picked up The Silent Man single (CD) and WDADU. I must say that EVE is one of the finest instrumentals I've heard! I especially like the section whem Mike P. goes from the standard 2 against 2 (ride vs. snare) rythm to 3 against 2. I have never heard someone do this in a recording before,I have studied classical snare and percussion and I've seen it in my studies but as for a rock drummer, never!!
Also, I was very apprehensive when I bought wdadu, as James doesn't sing on it. And after listening, I must say that bringing in James was the best move they could have made (IMHO) :). I think James' versatility is a definate plus to the musical style of the band.
Well, thats enough for now, later guys.
Chris Purdy CP74645@ltu.edu
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Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 23:35:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: Assorted Comments and Suggestions Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950716233431.17903B-100000@oak.liii.com>
On Sun, 16 Jul 1995 euan@waikato.ac.nz wrote:
> 1) To all those people talking about christianity and DT. Lay off! This > list is supposed to be about discussion of DT and the music they produce - > not some ecumenical ideological debate!
No, it's also about discussion of the lyrics.
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:55:54 -0400 (EDT) From: tallen@junix.ju.edu (Trey Allen) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Prog band definition? Message-ID: <9507170555.AA01191@junix.ju.edu>
> Oh, and I have two cents about the old argument of who's a > progressive band and who isn't.--I just thought "progressive" meant that > you were writing and performing according to your own agenda that > progressed and grew without necessarily any connection to popular style. > To me, what marks a band as progressive isn't its sound or its classical > influences or its difficult licks on any one or two albums, but its > ability to survive the years with a growing, ever-changing style.
So your saying that since they have survived the year with thier style "ever changing", Van Halen, Elton john, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, and even Metallica are prog bands right??? (NOPE!) Take the time,
Trey Allen tallen@junix.ju.edu
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 893 *************************
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