YTSEJAM Digest 895
Today's Topics:
1) A few thoughts
by gilbert1@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Jeff Gilbert)
2) Re: Metallica IS Progressive
by tallen@junix.ju.edu (Trey Allen)
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 893 Honest!
by "C. Dominici" <KEN@benoni.nbr.no>
4) Schleudertrauma and question concerening MEGATON
by "Michael Wolberg" <WOLBERG@chemie.uni-oldenburg.de>
5) The Return of Ken the Slave
by "Ken H ili" <KEN@benoni.nbr.no>
6) lyric v. music
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
7) sim engine
by Michael Van Opstall <mavanop@grfn.ORG>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 893 Honest!
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@freenet.scri.fsu.edu>
9) QR, DT, Motorhead, Black Sabbath and **HELP**
by BOB HOLDER <BH7314@LUNDY.NIAGARAC.ON.CA>
10) Re: Metallica is Progressive
by euan@waikato.ac.nz
11) Jack of all trades & master of none
by debraun@fresno.edu (Randall Braun)
12) The Prisoner fonts. and a message
by debraun@fresno.edu (Randall Braun)
13) Lyrics vs Music, round three.
by KWMadden@usa.pipeline.com (Kevin Madden)
14) Too much analysis and comparison
by jim2112@ix.netcom.com (- )
15) Rush and Presto
by mpatrick@holli.com (Mike Patrick)
16) Stuff...
by larsh@tor250.org (Lars Hellsten)
17) Re: Jack of all trades & master of none
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
18) Re: Too much analysis and comparison
by Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com>
19) DT dates.
by Brian Wherry <bwherry@acs.bu.edu>
20) Re: YTSEJAM digest 893 Honest!
by tallen@junix.ju.edu (Trey Allen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:02:16 -0400
From: gilbert1@minerva.cis.yale.edu (Jeff Gilbert)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: A few thoughts
Message-ID: <199507180602.AA12990@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Okay, recarding the lyrics/music debate. Being a musician, I usually pay
more attention to the music. But I do like a good lyric as much as anyone
else and I do consider DT (all the members) to be good lyricists. In fact,
when IAW came out I was going through a rough time. Although the music
totally blew me away, the lyrics on the album were really inspiring to me.
The album seemed to have this theme of facing failure or going through a
tough time in you life, dealing with it and finding the courage to carry on.
As a result, IAW is and album that has real sentimental value for me.
As for whoever posed the "what is progressive" question, I would definitely
consider Rush and Yes progressive. Not just because of the fact that,
they've spent their whole career breaking down the barriers that mose people
set up in rock, but also for constantly looking ahead and trying new things
rather than resting on their laurels. I consinder albums like "Counterparts"
and "Talk" to be on the same level with classics like "2112" and "Going For
the One." For that reason, groups like Marillion, Kansas, Jethro Tull, Pink
Floyd, Frank Zappa(RIP) and King Crimson are also progressive. A lot of
people (particually the middle-age burnouts from the 70's) seem to think of
"progressive" as a group that uses mellotrons, writes really long songs and
trows in a new time signature change every three bars. To me, that's a
rather superficial definition. There's more to it than that.
BTW, I do read the progressive metal newsgroup and I do find the flamewar
going on in there right now to be rather pathetic. It reminds me of why I
generally hate usenet. Sometines I wonder why I bother reading it.
Well, that's all I have on my mind for now. Bye!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:08:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: tallen@junix.ju.edu (Trey Allen)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Metallica IS Progressive
Message-ID: <9507180608.AA15777@junix.ju.edu>
>
> In YTSEJAM 893, there was reference to Metallica as being not progressive. I
> believe that this person has missed the mark when they lumped Metallica in
> with other decidedly non-progressive bands. Oh, jeez, here we go.......
>
> Maybe people are unfamiliar with most of Metallica's material or are coming in
> to the game a bit late, but Metallica deserves much credit for creating an
> entirely new sound in music (thrash). And, recall that this was happening
> 10-12 years ago. Beneath this harder sound, you will actually find some
> complex instrumental writing. One may not care for their sound, but they
> indeed created something truly NEW. IMO, creating a whole new sound equates
> to being progressive, no ??
I respect your opinion but still have to totally disagree:
1) Sure they have a few small novice (I guess you could call it) prog
riffs but so do Anthrax and Obituary and Megadeth and early VH ect..
That doesn't mean these bands are prog.
2) I totally agree with you in that Metallica had almost as much
influence on thrash and metal as Elvis had on rock'n'roll, but that doesn't
make them prog either. Would you call Micheal Jackson a progressive
artist because he was one of the founders of pop music?
================ENOUGH SAID!!====================
One more thing, my band wants to cover Ytsejam and I was just curious how
close I was in figuring out that song. If anyone has it tabbed or can
get it, tell me!
Take the time,
Trey Allen
____________________________________________________________________________
"...sorrow and pain she'll never outgrow; Death is the first dance,
eternal..."
"...As a man I've found it's all caught up with me; Deceit is the second
without end..."
"...Now the Miracle and the Sleeper know that the third is love; Love is
the dance of eternity"
(John Petrucci of Dream Theater)
Trey Allen --- tallen@junix.ju.edu ---
http://junix.ju.edu/UsrWebPages/tallen/home.html
____________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:25:28 GMT+0100
From: "C. Dominici" <KEN@benoni.nbr.no>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 893 Honest!
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.950718102528.256@benoni.nbr.no>
<<<Also, I was very apprehensive when I bought wdadu, as James doesn't sing on it.
And after listening, I must say that bringing in James was the best move they
could have made (IMHO) :). I think James' versatility is a definate plus
to the musical style of the band.>>>
Why is everybody picking on me???
Charlie D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:16:39 GMT+100
From: "Michael Wolberg" <WOLBERG@chemie.uni-oldenburg.de>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Schleudertrauma and question concerening MEGATON
Message-ID: <904611C5F72@chemie.uni-oldenburg.de>
Hi list,
Quoting Kinga may be a good beginning for my mail:
>I realize this may be of zero interest to most of you but since people
>here write about their grandmas and other people's girlfriends, I might as
>well share with you my little experience, especially since it DOES have a
>DT content! :)
Last saturday-night I've been in the Aladin, a from time to time good
music-playing club in Bremen with a dancefloor of acceptable size,
and ...... guess what Mr. DJ played at ca. 3:00 am ?
Pull Me Under !!! YYYYYYYYYYESSSSS! YYYYYYYYYYYYESSSSS!
Now guess who airguitarred and headbanged his mind out of himself, close
to neck-breaking ? Ok, stupid question....
The first (and up to now only) time I've heard DT in a club was some five
years ago in the "Gruenspan", Hamburg. I've to say WDADU is kinda diffucult
to dance to ..., what do you think ?
Ok, now something different: Has here ever been some discussion about the
band Megaton? A friend of mine put a song of them on a tape for me, which
he recorded partly from a sampler. I think they are pretty good. Could
anyone please pass me more information ? THX in advance.
MiWo
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:06:15 GMT+0100
From: "Ken H ili" <KEN@benoni.nbr.no>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: The Return of Ken the Slave
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.950718160615.384@benoni.nbr.no>
Hi everybody,
Sorry about my last post (the complaint from Charlie), I was just
feeling very silly!! It won't happen again... I think.
Anyway... it's great to get to read the Ytsejam again - I've been
away for two weeks, and I was starting to miss my daily digest!
Obviously I've had a lot of catching up to do...
In digest #894 Dan wrote:
<<<What's going on everybody? I was casually reading the latest jam, when I
noticed the seemingly more angry then usual tone in many letters. IMO the jam
should be about everyone getting together to discuss anything they think
another DT fan might find interesting. Whether it be what other jammers do
for a living, that classical thread from a few weeks ago, Tori Amos, Joyce,
or (have mercy) the lyrics to the songs.
I don't mean to flame anyone, but many of the remarks in 893 seem to run
contrary to the friendly, mind opening, PROGRESSIVE spirit of the group.
Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
------------Dan (potestatem@aol.com)>>>
Dan, I think you're right. What's going on, folks? I'm on this
mailing list because I think it's fun! I want to communicate with
fellow DT fans, I don't want to go to war! Calm down...
Peace
Ken the Slave
"I think the word you're looking for is... AAAAAAAAAA!!!!"
-One of Danny DeVito's many strange lines from Batman Returns.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:15:19 -0400
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: lyric v. music
Message-ID: <v01510104ac3135cf07bc@[199.232.46.229]>
KWMadden@usa.pipeline.com (Kevin Madden) wrote:
>
>I will weigh in with my opinion: If the music sucks, it really doesn't
>matter to
>me what the lyrics are. I would never buy a cd because the lyrics were
>nice or profound, but I WOULD buy a cd whose music was outstanding and
>whose lyrics were stupid, trite, and any other adjective an English teacher
>
>could come up with... Don't flame me, but I don't like DT for the lyrics
>(or even for the vocalist, I liked Charlie) but for the outstanding
>musicianship.
>I would wager that this is so for others, too. Lyrics are icing on the
>cake.
>
I gotta go with Kevin here. I used to get into the hugest arguments with a
friend of mine about that. If the lyrics are the most profound thing ever
written but the music sucks I won't listen to it. Ironically, my friend is
a big, big, big R.E.M. fan. But I remember (about 10 years ago) reading an
interview with REM and Stipe said that he doesn't put the lyrics on the
insert because the lyrics are part of the song and to take the lyrics away
from the song wouldn't be right (not at all a direct quote). Which is my
point. It's very cool when the lyrics are awesome. And actually, if the
lyrics are too ridiculous, I won't like it as much. I might say that the
music is cool but the lyrics are stupid. But it's a _song_ not a poem. It
the words are most important, why set it to music? My friend argued that
it's easier to get the message to the masses if it's a pop song. I say that
the message is lost amongst the masses anyway. So good lyrics are cool and
it seems that many of the bands I listen to have good lyrics, but I listen
for the music.
To Jaime the Dragon:
I've never bought any music merely because I could relate to the words the
vocalist says.
Then I read the post from Tymoteusz Altman <altman@sfu.ca>.
> a few weeks ago, a dumbass posted a web site address
> in one of the heavymetal newsgroups. it was a web
> page for neo-nazi propeganda bands!
He said he wouldn't listen to any of these bands. Nor would I. If the
lyrics are insulting or contrary to my beliefs, even if I like the music, I
can't listen to it. That's happened before. If the lyrics are stupid or
trite, but not insulting or offending, I can listen to it and love it
(remember David Lee Roth's first album :).
----------------
Marc Respass
mer@sol.iii.net
http://www.iii.net/users/mer/Welcome.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Van Opstall <mavanop@grfn.ORG>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: sim engine
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.950718131514.4724A-100000@freenet.grfn.org>
I tried the sim. engine with DT I&W, Yngwie, Dixie Dregs, Gary Hoey, and
something else. What do you think I got? Awake is #1, #2 is Fates Warning
- Parallels, and #3 is Queensryche - Promised Land. Also notably in the
top was Tourniquet's Psycho Surgery, something I own, as well as some
Dregs stuff that I have as well.
My brother but in a couple of no name bands that probably aren't even in
there and Live. He got Live, Pearl Jam, Hootie, Collective Soul, Soul
Asylum, FM Radio, etc. back if you know what I mean.
I tried to trick it just for fun with Green Day, Miles Davis, Sepultura,
Garth Brooks, and Yanni. I didn't get any rating above the line. All of
'em were 16s, basically a mix of classical/jazz and death metal albums.
That thing is really cool though.
M.A. VanOpstall
mavanop@grfn.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:25:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@freenet.scri.fsu.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 893 Honest!
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9507181324.A12406-0100000@freenet2.scri.fsu.edu>
Hahahahaha What a pathetic attempt at making us Believe that'Z
Charlie...hehe nice try There Guy!!! NOT!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the circle of fifths, and the order of sharps and flats:
If the alphabet continued as notes progressed (Using Major Key Sigs) (i.e.
A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, etc.) eventually the key of Z Major would have
4 sharps.
StatisticZ show that if a person is born with Perfect Pitch, chances are
they will grow up to be a famous...Baseball Player!!! :)
Eric Moegling: afn22909@freenet.ufl.edu
emoeglin@mail.coin.missouri.edu
fOr MoRE nFo AboUT mE fIngEr: emoeglin@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, C. Dominici wrote:
> <<<Also, I was very apprehensive when I bought wdadu, as James doesn't sing on it.
> And after listening, I must say that bringing in James was the best move they
> could have made (IMHO) :). I think James' versatility is a definate plus
> to the musical style of the band.>>>
>
> Why is everybody picking on me???
>
> Charlie D.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:26:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: BOB HOLDER <BH7314@LUNDY.NIAGARAC.ON.CA>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Cc: BH7314@LUNDY.NIAGARAC.ON.CA
Subject: QR, DT, Motorhead, Black Sabbath and **HELP**
Message-ID: <950718132635.20200fb4@LUNDY.NIAGARAC.ON.CA>
I had a very interesting weekend this past one. Went to see Queensryche on
Saturday night at Darien Lake and they absolutely blew me away with their
show. I missed TON but was hanging around my campsite at the time discussing
DT with a group of teens that were passing by wearing I&W and AWAKE tour
shirts. They all got into DT through their music teacher from high school.
Queensryche's set (all 2 1/2 hours of it) was pretty much identical to the
one posted here back in May by Brian Cox.
To top off the weekend, last night I went to see Motorhead and Black Sabbath
at Polonia Park in St. Catharines in the old Russian(Moscow) Circus tent
(hold's 6000+ people) with only about 2000 in attendance. My ears have
just stopped bleeding, it was incredibly loud. Sabbath sounded great with
this lineup (Tony Iommi, COZY POWELL, Tony Franklin and Neil Murray). Cozy
even did a solo that was incredible. Highlight of the night was meeting
Lemmy down the street at a local drinking establishment, getting his
autograph, and beating him at a game of pool.
**HELP**: On the subject of length of songs, I was just arguing (in favor)
about the length of songs during my lunch break, stating that ACOS times in
over 19min. A couple others I used in my argument were Jethro Tull
'Thick as a Brick'(43:38) and Rush '2112'(21:12). Anyone care to help me
reload for Friday's lunch with long songs?
Concert Trail:
9 days to QR in T.O. 31 days to VH in T.O.
"Oughta my way I'm comin' through
I know what I want
And I know how to get it"
Comin' Through - KiLLeR DWaRfS
See Ya,
Bob "How can I see tomorrow if you keep me in the dark"
Face against my soul - sUBHUMAN rACE - Skid Row
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:48:26 +1200
From: euan@waikato.ac.nz
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Metallica is Progressive
Message-ID: <v01510101ac31cd098598@[130.217.176.35]>
The reason why Metallica may be called progressive is because the legacy
left to James Hetfield by the late bass god Cliff Burton. Lars Urlich has
been quoted as saying "Cliff played piano and knew a lot about theory, he
introduced James to the third and fifth and shit like that..." If anyone
asks the magazine I read that in was written just after the Justice tour.
IMHO, DT is a superior band in terms of all round technical skill,
musical knowledge and songwriting techniques. They are a leader in the
prog metal category (a label which I hate personally) just as Metallica
pioneered thrash.
Enough babble, ON WITH THE JAM!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:11:57 -0700
From: debraun@fresno.edu (Randall Braun)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Jack of all trades & master of none
Message-ID: <v01520c01ac3169bcf5f3@[204.161.33.79]>
>>Reply on IM(H)O acronym:
It is not redundant or superfluous; of course that is my opinion, but how
would you know unless I said so. It is necessary because the english
laqnguage doesn't have a grammatical/sematic form that automatically
differentiates FACT from OPINION. FACTS are absolutes. OPINIONS are
personal choices, i.e:
'JP is a better guitarist than AL' is stated as an absolute (fact) and is
different than 'IMO, JP is a better guitarist than AL because ...' or 'I
think (or believe) JP is a better guitarist than AL because ...', which are
expressions of personal choice (opinion).
>>On the 'ACOS is anti-Christian' thread:
I would like to thank all Y'Jammers for their contributions, and for their
openness in allowing this discussion w/o open flames. Since I've already
said my piece, no need to re-iterate it here; however from what I have read
in the JAM & also personal Email, this issue is important to some of us,
and why we appreciate DT, and prog/metal in general.
>>On the related 'Rush is anti-Christian' thread:
I.ve never heard any Rush (Peart) lyrics as being being anti-Christian.
Howver , the lyrics from 'Ghost of a Chance' from 'Roll the Bones' (i.e., I
don't believe in forever... and I don't believe in angels looking down from
above ... (or something similar, I don't have the lyrics in front of me))
suggest a rejection of 'traditional' Christian beliefs; on the other hand,
in 'Big Wheel' from the same album, 'I don't want to wait for heaven...', ?
a convenient literary analogy ? Of course, I also don't believe in the
necessity of certain traditional (but not biblical) Christian beliefs;
they often tend to detract from the essence of a true Christian
relationship. In fact, I enjoy Rush, their music and words; they have a
lot of good things to say on some sociological/psychological issues that
fundamentalist christianity distorts or rejects.
Thanks for the #ytsejam IRC info; just needed to download the appropriate
software from Info-Mac and figure out how to use it. Too bad, I don't
think anyone else was on the channel at the time; maybe I'll chat with some
of you later, though I suspect that best internet access probaly is when
most of you are under the Slavedrivers' eyes.
Thanks to whoever posted the 'Yes' update. I'm glad to see, IMO, the
premier Yes configuration back again. While Trevor Rabin has shown himself
to be an accomplished musician/lyricist/producer, etc., he just doesn't,
IHMO, quite fit in Yes' lineup.
New Trivia questions (3 part):
1. Before Yes reformed with Jon Anderson in the late 80's, Squire, White,
Kaye and Rabin did some pre-production work under what other band name?
2. What is the origin of the name for the Rush classsic 'YYZ' (also covered
by DT, I understand)?
3. Now the most(?) difficult question: What thread do questions 1 and 2
have in common?
--Randall L. Braun
'To write or to speak is almost inevitably to lie a little. It is an
attempt to clothe an intangible in tangible form; to compress an
immeasurable into a mold. And in the act of compression, how Truth is
mangled and torn!'
-- Anne Morrow Lindbergh
You are correct when you say that there is one God; the demons also believe
this and shudder (James 2:19)
Christianity is a relationship, not a religion
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:30:39 -0700
From: debraun@fresno.edu (Randall Braun)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: The Prisoner fonts. and a message
Message-ID: <v01520c03ac3175cdcb4e@[204.161.33.79]>
>>Related to my answer to the Iron Maiden-Prisoner connection.
For those who are font collectors, the font style used on The Prisoner is
known as Albertus, Since this is a copy-righted font, others have created
the Albertus-derived fonts 'Furioso' and 'Village' for both Mac and PC
which are available for downloading at:
dworkin.wustl/dist/prisoner
Also, for those who are corresponding with me by personal Email, I
understand that the LAN, and thus the server I am using, may be down for
maintenance for a few days in the near future. So, you'll know mhy any
replies are late, or your mail bounces; try again later.
--Randall L. Braun--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:11:28 -0400
From: KWMadden@usa.pipeline.com (Kevin Madden)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Lyrics vs Music, round three.
Message-ID: <9507182211.AA07724@>
Tim said:
=for me the music comes first...but the lyrics are just as important.
=let me ask you this:
=a few weeks ago, a dumbass posted a web site address in one of the
=heavymetal newsgroups. it was a web page for neo-nazi propeganda bands!
=i checked it out to see if it was for real...it was!
=the scary part is that some of these bands probably have musical talent.
=but i wouldn't even attempt to download any of the song samples, because
=i didn't care for what they are saying in the lyrics.
=I know this is an extreme case, but i wouldn't listen to any such band
=even if they were 10 times better musically than DT.
=on the other case if the lyrics are great, and the music sucks, i would
=probably get turned off just as much.
=tim a. (sitting on the fence)
---------------------------------------------
I think that like you said, that is an extreme case of the lyrics actually
making a difference. I'm still not sure. If I could ignore the lyrics in
order to better appreciate the musicianship, which in your hypothetical
scenario was ten times better than
DT, I probably could do it. I wouldn't wear a tour shirt, or promote their
agenda,
but I could appeciate the MUSIC. But fortunately we never face that
dilemma, so
it's not really an issue. The lyrics I had in mind were dumb, but I
managed to overlook them; like more of the "fantasy" style or whatever.
You know "White witch, white witch" type stuff. (apologies to the Savatage
fans who actually enjoyed those lyrics. Speaking of which, they are a
perfect example of stupid lyrics in conjunction with awesome musicianship,
especially Criss, RIP.) Some of the
DT lyrics are dumb (or trite or whatever) in my opinion, but like I said, I
don't listen to DT for the lyrical content. But, of course, everyone is
entitled to his or her opinion!
-- Kevin (kwmadden@usa.pipeline.com)------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 10:25:18 -0700 From: jim2112@ix.netcom.com (- ) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Too much analysis and comparison Message-ID: <199507181725.KAA27741@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
Could we please pick apart DT's music/lyrics a little more?? I think just a little bit more analysis would really help!! Come on, music is meant to be listened to and enjoyed, and you don't/shouldn't need to study it to figure out how it makes you feel. All this analysis serves nothing but to take away the emotional impact and mystery that the music has to offer us. Geez it is not a course you are taking.....ITS MUSIC!!! LISTEN TO IT!! Decide what it means to you and leave it at that.
Why do we have to talk about who is the better songwriter in DT??? It's not a friggin competition, it's a band, they all all trying to write the best songs that they can,and make music that we all love. Give me a break please....
Don't get me wrong, this is a place to talk about the band we love and it's great that we have the chance to do so...but lets put them under a magnifying glass and criticize and throw the band members against each other. It just serves no good purpose, except maybe to cheapen the band and their music, and leave absolutely nothing to question. Think about it....isn't it cool to hold music dear to you and to let it say to you just what you want it to??? AMEN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 20:49:39 -0400 From: mpatrick@holli.com (Mike Patrick) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Rush and Presto Message-ID: <m0sYOrR-0009iaC@walnut.holli.com>
> The last letter had a post about Rupert Hines being a genius and how >great it was that he stuck around for Roll The Bones. Well, I don't know >a damn thing about producing, but I will say that Roll The Bones is, as >far as I'm concerned, the biggest pile of crap that I have listened to >from Rush. Counterparts was SO MUCH BETTER, as was Presto, which at >least had some great singles (Show, Don't Tell and The Pass, to name a >couple). On Roll the Bones, Dreamline was OK and Heresy was at least >interesting, but the rest of the album was tame and lame. I don't really >know whether that's Hines' fault or whether Rush's writing was just weak >for that album, but YUCK.
If you don't like RtB, blame the band, not the producer. Rush has been around the block enough times to get EXACTLY what they want out of a record. To be honest, I'm not sure why the even use a producer (I know, they say for song structure, etc.) - I guess it's all in what you get used to. Rupert is still the man, however.
Mike Patrick mpatrick@holli.com Still searching for that elusive corner of the Net where civility is all the rage and the content is substantive. Ah, screw it. Who am I kidding?
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Date: 18 Jul 95 12:17:24 -0500 From: larsh@tor250.org (Lars Hellsten) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Stuff... Message-ID: <a4a_9507181931@tor250.org>
First, regarding the lyrics thread. I don't know about the majority of jammers, but the lryics have always been a secondary thing to the music itself for me. It's great to analyze lyrics, and great if you can related to them... but even if you DON'T, that doesn't take away from the music!
Some examples of songs like that are Lie, 6:00, Caught In A Web (unless you change the title to Caught In The Web... :) ), UAGM. I don't get any- thing out of the lyrics for those songs, and thusly, don't really pay attention to them, or notice them. But all of those songs are great, and I love them just the same for the music. On songs like SDV, Voices, Scarred, Another Day, or TLF, the lyrics jump up and I notice them right away. It definately adds SOMETHING to the songs for me, but the lyrics don't make a huge impact. But I'm also the type of person who loves instrumental stuff (DT is the perfect balance between lyrics and instru- mental stuff), unless Geoff Tate is singing it, so that might explain it.
About Metallica; I'm glad there are some other people here who're MEtallica fans as well. I was a HUGE Metallica fan - totally obsessed with them - before I found DT and became obsessed with them instead. :) I still love the band (and hey, there are *SOME* songs I like on the Black album - My Friend of Misery, Unforgiven, God That Failed), and will buy everything they release right away, and I still think they're talented musicians.
As far as their dispute with Elektra goes, that was settled a LONG time ago. I originally heard that Metallica sued Elektra and lost, and that Elektra was going to counter-sue the band for $100 million (!!!!), but apparently they worked it out out of court. This news is over half a year old. From what I heard a little while ago, Bob Rock was supposed to produce it with them when he finished some other project. I'm not sure what the latest word is, but I'm pretty sure they must have already finished recording it. It was supposed to come out this fall...
-- Lars Hellsten <*> larsh@apc.tor250.org <*> MatrixSoft Development
All my life they said I was going down / but I'm still standing, stronger, proud / and today, I know there's so much more I can be / I think I finally understand - Queensryche "Someone Else?"
-- |Fidonet: Lars Hellsten 1:250/320 |Internet: larsh@tor250.org
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 21:31:05 PDT From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: Jack of all trades & master of none Message-ID: <9507190431.AA13864@tengs1.teng>
> > New Trivia questions (3 part): > > 2. What is the origin of the name for the Rush classsic 'YYZ' (also covered > by DT, I understand)?
I think that 'YYZ' is the letter designation for the Toronto airport (actually pronounced "Y-Y-Zed"). > > --Randall L. Braun
Zach
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:54:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: Too much analysis and comparison Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950719003923.26587A-100000@oak.liii.com>
On Tue, 18 Jul 1995, - wrote:
> Could we please pick apart DT's music/lyrics a little more?? I think > just a little bit more analysis would really help!!
Right on, Bro!
> Come on, music is > meant to be listened to and enjoyed, and you don't/shouldn't need to > study it to figure out how it makes you feel.
Oh, you were kidding.
> All this analysis serves > nothing but to take away the emotional impact and mystery that the > music has to offer us.
Analysis has NEVER taken away emotional impact for me. And if I want mystery I'd be a Copperfield fan.
> Geez it is not a course you are taking.....ITS > MUSIC!!! LISTEN TO IT!! Damn, all those music appreciation courses have been for naught.
>Decide what it means to you and leave it at > that.
As if ANYONE is going to change the way I feel about a song.
> > Why do we have to talk about who is the better songwriter in DT???
Boredom? > It's not a friggin competition,
I ain't touching that one.
> it's a band, they all all trying to > write the best songs that they can,and make music that we all love.
And they usually succeed. Some people like to know how they do it.
> Give me a break please.... > > Don't get me wrong, this is a place to talk about the band we love and > it's great that we have the chance to do so...but lets put them under a > magnifying glass and criticize and throw the band members against each > other. It just serves no good purpose, except maybe to cheapen the band > and their music, and leave absolutely nothing to question.
Give ME a break. They are not gods. If someone says that Petrucci writes better lyrics than Moore, that won't cheapen the way I feel about either one.
> Think about > it....isn't it cool to hold music dear to you and to let it say to you > just what you want it to???
Maybe. I think it's cooler to share what's dear to me and see if someone else feels the same.
> AMEN
me too
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Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 23:05:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Wherry <bwherry@acs.bu.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: DT dates. Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9507182213.E160687-0100000@acs.bu.edu>
Well, while I was on the phone with the ever-so-pleasant ticketmaster agent getting my tix for the Providence show (she actually was nicer than they usually are), I asked her to scan her computer for any other DT shows. Zippo. The only one was The Strand in Providence. Now this could mean that there aren't any more dates, or just that that's the only show that is being handled by ticketmaster. Allrighty then. BTW, if you have yet to put two and two together, I'll be at the show, and would love to get together with as many ytsejammers as possible. I'll definitely be wering my ytsejam shirt! :)
An aside: I'm bringing a friend to this show with me. I've only known him for a little while, and the first time I asked him what he thought about Dream Theater he said, and I quote, "I hate them with a passion!" Oh no Mr. Bill! One time I was looking through his CD collection, and I was thinking to myself, "How can this guy not like Dream Theater?" He's got a lot of really good stuff: Pantera, Prong, Charlie Parker, Bela Fleck, etc. I realized that I was presented with a challenge: TO CONVERT HIM!!! He came to my apartment one time, and I played him some DT. I played him Metropolis, Voices, Scarred, ACoS, and a few others. Lemme just say he smiled a lot!! He has since bought I&W, and is really psyched to see them in a few weeks. (as am I) IT CAN BE DONE!!!
Brian
BTW, the first tune he ever heard by DT was 'Lie.' (Obviously not the best choice for the single.)
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 02:02:11 -0400 (EDT) From: tallen@junix.ju.edu (Trey Allen) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 893 Honest! Message-ID: <9507190602.AA11149@junix.ju.edu>
> > <<<Also, I was very apprehensive when I bought wdadu, as James doesn't sing on it. > And after listening, I must say that bringing in James was the best move they > could have made (IMHO) :). I think James' versatility is a definate plus > to the musical style of the band.>>> > > Why is everybody picking on me??? > > Charlie D. >
I really don't mind Charlie's (your) vocals. I think in some parts James may be a little more suited for the job (Surrounded, Space Dye Vest, the other softer songs). But on WDaDU, that was compensated for by minimizing these types of sonmgs. I think Charlie did a great job!
Also I need to know the port# for the ytsejam IRC thing cause the only way to get there for me is to telnet and them it propmts me to login. PLEASE HELP ME! I want to be there!
Take the time, ____________________________________________________________________________ "...sorrow and pain she'll never outgrow; Death is the first dance, eternal..."
"...As a man I've found it's all caught up with me; Deceit is the second without end..."
"...Now the Miracle and the Sleeper know that the third is love; Love is the dance of eternity" (John Petrucci of Dream Theater)
Trey Allen --- tallen@junix.ju.edu --- http://junix.ju.edu/UsrWebPages/tallen/home.html __________________________________________________________________________
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 895 *************************
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