YTSEJAM Digest 812
Today's Topics:
1) Re: A Thought On Singing
by "TDB" <tdb@SMTPGwy.microsim.com>
2) When Dream and Day Unite import
by Jessikins <jhooker@falcon.depaul.edu>
3) ADVICE FOR AWAKE VIDEO
by BERTAPELLE ADAM RAYE <bertapel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
4) The Mirror (still)
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 811
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 809
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 809
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
8)
by donews!ahcbsd1.ovnet.com!rmancuso
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 809
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
10) Re:30 seconds of DT?
by William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
11) RAY IS LEAVING FATES?!?!?!?! NO!!!!!!!
by "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
12) DT transcriptions to be snailed Monday May8\95
by BUNTS@delphi.com
13) Mirror intro.
by "Brian J. Wherry" <WB81%LAFAYACS.bitnet@lafibm.lafayette.edu>
14) 6:00 bass
by Aviad Hay <aviad@kids-mail.huji.ac.il>
15) Metropolis II
by Jeff Stewart <jstewart@sparc.isl.net>
16) Re: ROSS666 & Jeremy (very long)
by Steve Borzilleri <silenzio@elwha.evergreen.edu>
17)
by
18) set list for summer tour
by "Brian V. Cox" <bvc8995@tam2000.tamu.edu>
19) that wrong 6:00 riff!
by Dario M Zagar <dmz2@columbia.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 May 95 15:41:43 PST
From: "TDB" <tdb@SMTPGwy.microsim.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: A Thought On Singing
Message-ID: <9504057997.AA799713848@SMTPGwy.microsim.com>
Yeah, it's true that it's harder for a vocalist to cover an error.
You need a continuity of expression and cracking or losing a line
messes that up. And if you hurt your voice, you don't have the
option to change a string or grab a new pair of sticks.
I've seen Michael Hedges (an incredible acoustic guitarist) lose part
of a fingernail during a show. I was really impressed with the way
he covered over that!
Covering up is a big part of performance. I love seeing someone make
a good sized mistake and then cover it so well that no one notices.
I remember the first time I really screwed up a solo harp piece in
front of a good-sized audience. I managed to keep in time and in
key, but I was simply _not_ playing the song I intended. Somehow I
got back to the correct melody and finished. Luckily, it wasn't a
competition (or I'd have been roasted big time), and since I kept it
sounding good, all was well. When I told my friend Bret (the rainbow
bass player) about it, he said "Congratulations! Now you're a real
musician!"
Also, I think familiarity is a part of it. Everyone hears people's
voices so much that they have an idea of what they expect. With an
instrument - especially an unfamiliar one - there are fewer
expectations.
But how do you account for all the other singers in rock and pop who
seem to perform much more consistently? Do they just not push as
hard? Do they make more intelligent choices about what to sing? Or
are they better at covering?
-- Tim
( [joke disclaimer] Wouldn't it be great is I&W and Awake were
re-recorded/re-mastered with CD on vocals... )
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 95 18:18:41 CDT
From: Jessikins <jhooker@falcon.depaul.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: When Dream and Day Unite import
Message-ID: <199505052318.XAA14550@falcon.depaul.edu>
Hello there. I am not subscribed to Ytsejam, nor am I really a fan of DT, but I
have in my possession a new, unopened CD of _When Dream and Day Unite_ that
I do not want (yes, I'm aware that that is most likely blasphemy on this group).
I originally intended it for my boyfriend, who *is* a fan, but unfortunately
for me he already had it. So, since he told me that it was only available as an
import I figured someone out there in Ytsejam land might have trouble getting
their hands on it. Also, sending it out to someone in dire need of this
album would be a lot more fun then walking the distance back to Best Buy to
return it.
So, here's the deal: I have no clue how many people might want this but
to be fair I have to assume more than one will. And, since it is Friday
evening already I'm sure that many people will not see this until they
are back at work on Monday. I want to give everyone an equal shot at it so
I have thought up a number between 1 and 100 (yes, juvenile, I know...I just
don't have the motivation to think up a more appropriate method). With
your message requesting the CD send along your guess as to what number it
is. The closest gets it and ties will be broken in the same method. I will
take guesses until midnight (central time) tuesday May 9th. If no one
wants it by then I'll just return it I guess..but I'd really prefer to
see it go to someone here.
Now, for people in the U.S. I am asking $19. This covers the price and
1st class postage. If you want 2 day priority mail it is $21. I'm
afraid I can't do it cheaper or I'd lose money. For people outside of
the U.S. these prices may change slightly, although I have no clue how
much right now. I just want to cover my costs really.
Send all requests to my personal e-mail address (jhooker@falcon.depaul.edu)
as I will have no way of seeing them if they are posted to Ytsejam.
Thanks for your tolerance and cooperation,
Jessica, the heretic non Dream Theater fan
************************************************************************
* "Mr Fawlty, I no want to work here anymore..." *
* -- Manuel from "Fawlty Towers" -- *
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 18:47:32 -0600 (MDT)
From: BERTAPELLE ADAM RAYE <bertapel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: ADVICE FOR AWAKE VIDEO
Message-ID: <199505060047.SAA02289@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Please, to anybody who has gotten the Japanese Pay-per-View Awake
video, is it from the manufacturer, or is this guy charging $18 each
dub he makes? Any advice and info is appreciated!
Thanks! -Adam
bertapel@ucsu.colorado.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 00:14:55 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: The Mirror (still)
Message-ID: <v01510101abd0adca6771@[199.232.46.229]>
I posted that I figured out the rhythm for the beginning of The Mirror.
Then others posted in response I thought that I might have been wrong but
now I know for a fact that I am completely right. I will post three
possible ways of notating it. Sorry I forgot the name of the person who
said he had the music and it was notated in 12/8 but that was a big help.
Notating in 12/8 is the easiest way. Before I begin though,
Tilman Kuendgen <tiku@rz.uni-sb.de> wrote:
>Hi Jammers! Here just my .02 concerning the rhythms in The Mirror:
>
>1 2 3 4
>|||||||||||| <-- TRIPLETS!!
>xxx xxx xxx
> Is this really declared as 12/8 in the AWAKE TAB's ??
> I don't think this is right, it's simple (But VERY COOL!)
> 4/4 w/ triplets, so this cannot be 12/8 !
First Tilman, it COULD be 4/4 but it's not simple. Second. It absolutely
CAN be 12/8. Your notation is confusing. You put the downbeats with three
notes per beat (total of 12. looks like 12/8 to me). You're calling them
triplets. Look.
In 12/8:
1--2--3--4-- numbers are downbeats, dashes are eighth notes between
xxx-xxx-xxx- the x's are the guitar notes, the dashes are rests
B S B S B = bass drum, S = snare
That's all I hear in the drums at that part except for a cymbal playing
only on the downbeat. After that he goes to 8th's on the hi-hat (I think).
The other way to notate this is to put the drums in 4/4 playing same part
and the guitar in 3/4 playing slower. Above the xxx- could be 3 16th notes
and a 16th rest in 3/4 (at 0.75 times the tempo of the drums). Or it could
be 3 8ths and an 8th rest in 12/8. The worst way would be to write it in
4/4. It would look the same as 12/8 except the guitar part would have a big
bracket with a 3 over the whole bar.
I'm not prepared to write this out in standard notation and mail it to
everyone. If anyone disagrees with me, you are wrong. I've thought about
this a lot. I'm positive it's right. Listen hard and work it out on paper
like I did (or get a life and just enjoy the song :).
Thanks for your time :)
Marc Respass
mer@sol.iii.net
http://www.iii.net/users/mer.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 00:15:00 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 811
Message-ID: <v01510102abd0b474f865@[199.232.46.229]>
Opening bass bit on 6:00
> A |------7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5--------------5-----5---|
> E |--0-------------0-----------------0-----------7---7-10-5-7---6-7-----|
> B |------------------------------------------------8--------------------|
> A |------7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5--------------5---5-7---|
> E |--0-------------0-----------------0-----------7---7-10-5-7---7-------|
> B |------------------------------------------------8--------------------|
^^^^^^
Is that what it is?! I just thought he was playing g-b-d 3 times at the end
there.
Here's an alternative to the second phrase above (although that's the one I
prefer)
> A |------7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5-------5------5---5-7---|
> E |--0-------------0-----------------0-----------7---7----5-7---7-------|
> B |------------------------------------------------8--------------------|
Thanks
Marc Respass
mer@sol.iii.net
http://www.iii.net/users/mer.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 22:35:32 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 809
Message-ID: <v01510103abd03cccdc34@[199.232.46.229]>
Hairball, the long-winded, writing in reference to Awake sounding live and
the photo on the sleeve, said:
> Of course, there's the arguement about how playing in the same
>room with the other people can create interaction...but, that's not my
>department. =)
Hairball, I thought you were a musician too, not just an engineer (ack! Was
that a Berklee joke?). I can say, from personal experience, that simply
playing in the same room with everyone gives a much more realistic sound.
I've always run my bass direct and it makes a huge difference to just be
able to SEE everyone. I did a recording once in a closet. My only contact
with the band was thru the headphones. It sucked! And we had to keep doing
everything over and over because no one could see anyone else.
Marc Respass
mer@sol.iii.net
http://www.iii.net/users/mer.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 22:35:36 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 809
Message-ID: <v01510104abd03df4217d@[199.232.46.229]>
HEY MATT GUNDRY!
Did you see my post on this subject? I said the exact same thing. But
someone has the book and says that part is in 12/8 which is, in reality,
the best and easiest way to write it. The very beginning is in 4 playing
three 16ths and a 16th rest. Then they go to 12/8 and quarter equals
previous eighth BUT we're in 12/8 now so the beat is dotted eigth. Instead
of three 16ths and a 16th rest it's three 8ths and an 8th rest! Very cool
and you're right. DT does have it down cold. My problem (and it seems,
yours too) is that I was thinking in 4/4. I put the drums in 4/4 and guitar
as a big half note triplet.
I'm glad someone else got what I got. That song is so great!
Marc Respass
mer@sol.iii.net
http://www.iii.net/users/mer.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 22:33:57 -0400
From: donews!ahcbsd1.ovnet.com!rmancuso
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Message-ID: <199505060233.WAA12185@ahcbsd1.ovnet.com>
X-Personal_name: Ryan A. Mancuso
From: rmancuso@ovnet.com
Subject: Subscribe!
subscribe ytsejam rmancuso@ovnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 22:35:46 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 809
Message-ID: <v01510106abd042472584@[199.232.46.229]>
My comment on Bafu Vai's (rather lengthy) bit about the voice and LaBrie. I
couldn't agree more. I don't know what the deal is with "studio wonder."
Not like the whole band is a studio wonder (like G 'n 'R). When I first
heard Awake, I thought it was so refreshing to hear a great vocalist with a
really strong voice. I think he sounds great on the album. Everything
sounds different when you play live.
Marc Respass
mer@sol.iii.net
http://www.iii.net/users/mer.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 22:09:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: William Wright <wwright@galaxy.galstar.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re:30 seconds of DT?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9505052226.B8230-0100000@galaxy.galstar.com>
On Thu, 4 May 1995, Mark A. Parker wrote:
> I'd speed up the entire catalog to blipvert
> proportions and let them slow it down from
> the 45-sec compressed version when they get back home.
> If they can travel the galaxy, certainly
> slowing down a soundbyte shouldn't be a problem ;)
that's the smartest one I've seen so far, and it misses the point
entirely. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 00:59:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: RAY IS LEAVING FATES?!?!?!?! NO!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199505060459.AAA29505@umbc9.umbc.edu>
I just read a rumor that Ray was asked by the rest of the band if he
was intersted in going into the studio for the next album and Ray
said no!! Has anyone else heard anything about this?
How about our friends at Metal Blade - any info in this?
Also, I'm glad that someone else has realized that James' auditions
have been sped up. If you lower the pitch just a tiny bit, he sounds
normal.
-- ************************************************************************** * Jason Hartman "I am the Killing Hand!" lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu * * * * You're fighting the weight of the world, * * and no one can save you this time. * * Close your eyes - you can find all you need in your mind. * * * * "Take the Time" - Dream Theater * **************************************************************************------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 May 1995 01:43:16 -0400 (EDT) From: BUNTS@delphi.com To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: DT transcriptions to be snailed Monday May8\95 Message-ID: <01HQ5YSCV1VQ99NH06@delphi.com>
Hi everybody!
First of all, let me apologize for the 'radio silence' over the past week or so. I have moved recently and it was hell!!! But it's over. I've missed that last ten digests or so. I don't know if people have been flaming me or what. Oh well. I'm posting this right away, just to break the silence and let everyone know I'm still here. Those of you who sent me emails requesting tab etc have been contacted by now. I can accomodate your requests and will be sending out your copies on Monday May 8/95. Those of you who didnt send a snail address, please try to get it to me before then.
For those of you who don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I posted a list of DT tab transcriptions, interviews, etc from magazines that I have collected. Anybody is welcome to email me (with their snail address) for photocopies of the material.
A list was posted to the ftp site at ftp.netcom.com, but I don't know if it has been updated. This is just a list of what's in this pile of magazines, not an official archive of stuff. I don't have a scanner or anything. I understand that some transcriptions are available via hypertext on WWW - all power to ya. I just thought that I would send stuff to people in snailmail if they wanted it. I ask nothing for postage or anything like that. All that I do ask is that if people find any interesting DT articles that they might let me know via email, so that they might be sent to my own snail address.
BTW, how many frigging bass players are there on this list???? A lot replied for bass tab. You're all probably 100X better than me too {:->}
Regards, Andrew. (To the guy who asked about my sig, it's from Lord Acton, most famous for distinguishing between Equality and Freedom in "Essays on Power" from the 19th Century)
The finest opportunity ever given the world was thrown away because the passion for Equality made vain the hope for Freedom.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 May 95 01:58:33 EST From: "Brian J. Wherry" <WB81%LAFAYACS.bitnet@lafibm.lafayette.edu> To: <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Mirror intro. Message-ID: <06MAY95.02133982.0019.MUSIC@LAFAYACS>
Okay, okay, I'll put my two cents in on the Mirror intro. Ready?
1) No tempo change.
2) No polyrhythms.
3) There is a time change -- 4/4 to 3/4 and back and so on.
That's it!!
Pretend you want to program the tune on your trusty drum machine, but your drum machine's pattern mode won't remember tempo changes. You can do it in 4/4 and 3/4. It works for me!!
(now for the required visual aides . . .) x=B5 on guitar (low B on bass) B=bass drum S=snare drum
The 4/4 part: 1 2 3 4 xxx xxx xxx xxx B S B S
The 3/4 part: 1 2 3 xxx xxx xxx B S B S
So you see, it's just a 3/4 with the snare, bass, and high-hats thrown in at times to make it sound like 6/8 (which it could be, or 12/16, or 24/32, etc.). The sixteenth note stays the same. No tempo change. There is the spot where Mike adds and extra sixteenth, before they go into double time, so the guitar and bass end up doing:
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 xx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx x B S B S B S B S B S B S B S B S
That's pretty much about it!!
Don't worry about the Mathematics all the time: if you can FEEL it, just do it!!
'Later,
Brian
ps- I've been having trouble posting lately. This will probably never be seen by anyone except myself, but it was fun!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 May 95 9:06 +0300 From: Aviad Hay <aviad@kids-mail.huji.ac.il> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: 6:00 bass Message-ID: <m0s7d6a-0000GQC@crash.cts.com>
>Longley <jcl1008@hermes.cam.ac.uk> wrote: >On Fri, 5 May 1995 ytsejam@arastar.com wrote: >(sorry, can't remember who posted this!) I did.
>well, yeah, you can play it like that if you want to be boring.. This is >an amazing phrase, and its the ending which really makes it. John has two >endings two this phrase which he alternates [and (having watched him play >this live) he DOES use the B string..] He might even play the open Es at 5 >on the B string, I couldn't tell. > > A |------7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5--------------5-----5---| > E |--0-------------0-----------------0-----------7---7-10-5-7---6-7-----| > B |------------------------------------------------8--------------------| > > A |------7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5-7-5-7-----7-5-7-5--------------5---5-7---| > E |--0-------------0-----------------0-----------7---7-10-5-7---7-------| > B |------------------------------------------------8--------------------| > ^^^^^^ I would have to agree with that. I've taken a closer look and noticed I missed some notes there.
>Which way do you fellow bassists out there do it? I'd be really >interested to hear. Now back to working out the bit during the "inside >coming outside" section...
Well - after taking your way of playing it (which I think is correct), and thinking of it for a while I've came up with three different methods which generally concerns fingering (because after all a great factor of conveniency (?!) is what fingers you use on what notes).
2 4 3 _ 1 _ - | | - | || || || | _ | || || || | / | <-- This is a hand, to show | / / you what finger is what number. \ / | |
I will be referring to the last part only, for it is the problematic one:
A |------7-5-7-5--------------5-----5---| E |--0-----------7-3-7-10-5-7---6-7-----| B |-------------------------------------|
Method #1: 3 1 3 1 4 1 4 2 1 3 1 2 3 1 Method #2: 4 2 4 2 4 1 4 2 1 3 1 2 3 1 Method #3: 4 2 4 2 4 1 4 1 1 3 1 2 3 1
The first method is good if fingers 1 and 3 are your strongest, but there is still a difficulty in the transition from finger 1 to 4 (on note 5 to 6) because there is only 2 fret interval between the notes which makes it kinda hard to the fingers. The second method is good if you have strong 2 and 4 fingers - I do therefor it is much easier to me to do method 2 (and 3). On method #3 (which is quite similar to M#2) there is a very small change that could, however, make a lot of difference to some players: Instead of playing finger 2 on the 9th note you play finger 1 - that could make the jump more easier to you - or much more difficult - it depends if you are good at cross notes - notes with an interval of 2.5 tones that are played on close strings [for example : notes B and E (7th fret) on strings E and A].
The idea is to check out all of the methods and decide what's best for you - and maybe even invent some of your own.
As for the "Inside Outside" part - boy that's gonna be a long one - I'll mail it as soon as it's done - Y'all do so as well.
Aviad.
"The problem now is: - The B-quad-4 Fretted or the B-Quad-4 Fretless?" - A.H.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 01:31:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeff Stewart <jstewart@sparc.isl.net> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Metropolis II Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.950506012825.337A-100000@sparc.isl.net>
This is not meant as a flame but I have to ask. Where the hell are some of you getting this idea about Metropolis II? I know Mr. Petrucci says there will be one but I doubt it'll be heard at least until the next full length studio album. Just a thought.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 00:03:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Borzilleri <silenzio@elwha.evergreen.edu> To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Re: ROSS666 & Jeremy (very long) Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9505052229.A12478-0100000@elwha.evergreen.edu>
This is going to be long, and something tells me this post is going to piss a lot of people off instead of clarify my views, but oh well. My only alibi in these situations is that, no, I was not directly affected by either of these people, thus I don't have the whole story. Perhaps I shouldn't have even commented, but I really do get enraged when people exercise their ability to shorten other's freedoms or rights. I can only imagine how many e-mails flew around the system after that first post about Jeremy - NONE of which I was a part of. So I can honestly say that my opinion was not needed. However:
------------------------------
>>>To AirDance@aol.com: I find it extremely distasteful to put someone's home address on a mailing list without their consent.<<<
>First of all, it was a _P.O. Box_, NOT a "home address." Big difference.
Not to me. You gave his name, the city he lives in, and the state. True, a post office box gives nothing, but what you did provide gives me his home address, where he works, and his home phone number. It's called resources, and I can guarantee you that if I were screwed in the manner you say some people were for purchasing the demos instead of trading them, this person would be hearing from me personally and the issue would probably be resolved.
>It wasn't exactly the most brilliant thing in the world for Andrew to >forward his address to someone he didn't even know & had never had any >previous contact with at all in the hopes of making a quick buck. In >cyberspace, that can be like playing russian roulette. But if he had no >trouble sending his address to someone he didn't know, like me, why should >I not feel ok posting it to YJ? And perhaps you are not aware that this >fellow is breaking the law by selling copyrighted materials for his own >profit without permission from th e owner of the copyright? As far as I'm >concerned, he pretty much gave up claim to any rights he may have had by >committing those two acts. He's lucky the only action that's been taken >against him is a suggested boycott.
1. So he forwarded you his address at random? How did he even find you?
2. I give my home address to a lot of people. For example, the people on this list whom I have traded with in the past. But if they put it up on this list for ANY reason without checking with me, it would piss me off because it is an infringement on the rights of the individual to hold private information as private in any cases beneath direct government interrogation.
3. "Copywrighted?" What's that? You know, a certain person on this list who you all know and love sold me a "copywrighted" piece of material for $25. I'm pretty sure that he actually kept that $25 for himself, since the item was in his possession and was acquired via United States currency. He did not mail this $25 to the owner of the copywright, in fact he told me what he spent the money on.
Another person on this list whom you all know and love even more sold me FIVE pieces of "copywrighted" material, and has yet to mail them to me. He will, because I asked him to wait until he mailed something else, since we both knew it would take some time. What happens when I receive these illegal items? Am I guilty because I purchased them from him? Are the two anonymous people listed above both guilty? Would you like me to put their names up on this list?
4. If I own a Van Halen album, purchased as a cd for $15, I can sell it to anyone I want for any amount of money I want. I have not copied this material, nor am I breaching "copywrighted music" by re-recording the cd and saying it's my work (like no one would notice it's Van Halen). The item was purchased with United States currency, in the United States, therefore is now legally my plastic cd-case, complete with a cd, which is also now mine. Anyone who wants to take it from me can either steal it or issue a warrant for its possession to claim it from me via the government. That'd be one hell of a court case. Otherwise, I can sell this cd for as much or as little money as I want. Heck, I can GIVE it away if I want to. Copywright infringement is in reproduction of media only.
>>>Please tell me you actually talked to this person and asked them what was up before you put their home address on the Ytsejams for hundreds of people to mail to, or flame the hell out of via their America Online address.<<<
>In case you didn't see, I posted later that Andrew did apologize & said >that he would remove the demos from his sale list. But keep in mind that >this fellow sells bootlegs & that one person politely requesting that he >remove something from his list out of honor & decency probably won't >really stop him from selling them anyway.
I'm glad he apologized, but something tells me you are not the only one who has e-mailed Ross about his list. Your post made it to Prodigy, so I automatically assume Ross has more enemies over there as well. If he changes his policies at all, it will be because of the tsunami of e-mails your posts caused(not that that's a bad thing, considering the overall immorality of what he was doing).
>After all, what he's doing is illegal in the first place & he's probably >making a profit from it. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the >doubt for now.
As far as I can tell, were he to make many many copies and then sell them, it would be illegal. Selling his one and only Kevin Moore demo to someone else would not be illegal. Furthermore, if you are working from a copy only, is it illegal? Another anonymous individual on this list mailed me a copy of the demo a few months ago. It's got a j-card covered with computer printing of the song listing, with the title of the work. ("Kevin Moore - Music Meant To Be Heard, Etc.") There is not a word of copywright information on this thing. It's a Maxell 90-minute cassette, with someone's printout of the song list and title serving as a cover. It's a copy. Not that I'm going to, but were I to make many many copies of an UNcopywrighted piece of music, such as THIS TAPE, I could sell them for profit. Is that illegal? Who would be guilty? Me or the person who mailed me this tape and left out the copywright information? Or both of us?
>I never said that everyone on YJ should "flame the hell out of him" or >fill his mailbox for no reason, I simply asked that everyone _boycott_ >him. The only context within which I suggested saying _anything_ to him >at all was if he sent his sale list to you _first_. I most certainly give >everyone here enough credit to know the difference between the two.
I'm not saying you asked them, but that is what I feel would be a result of what you said. It sure made me upset! I know if I were in this situation, I'd flame that guy! I'd probably do other stuff, too! So again, I agree with you. But it is very rare that a flame is directed by anyone other that the person writing it. It's not a dictated action, it just sort of happens when people get angry. Ask me not to flame all you want, but if Frank or SloppyJoe69 pop up again with still more gems of musical wisdom, I'll probably say something of my own accord regardless of outside pleas. Furthermore, if the only reason people got angry was because of direct annoyances etc., no one would care about anyone else. This is untrue. I was ready to blast Jeremy myself even tough he didn't screw me over, just from what was written by everyone on this list.
>>>This happened with that Jeremy fellow, and what really stunned me was that the guy who HAD his number didn't try CALLING him first. Instead, he threw Jeremy's home phone number up on this list so that the world could call him.<<<
>This has nothing to do with me, but to my knowledge, Jeremy was not >selling anything like Andrew, just trading tapes, so the situations >involved are a bit different. I never posted Andrew's phone number, nor >would I have if I'd had access to it. There would have been no reason to, >in this particular case. But tell me, why should it be anyone here's >responsibility to call Jeremy? The ball was most definitely in his court >the whole time & he never did anything to rectify the situation.
Perhaps to see if he exists before doing what they did. All I know is someone put someone else's home phone number up on this list, and didn't include the words, "I called and there was no answer. He refused to talk to me. Maybe you can get through to him now that I have done all in my power to connect."
>>>Yes, I know he screwed a lot of people, but personally I would try to establish contact myself and TALK to him and see what's up before doing something like this.<<<
>Perhaps you could be the ambassador of goodwill between the two parties, >Steve? :)
I would need direct motivation from Jeremy's actions themselves to get involved enough to actually find him and speak with him. (and should you reply to all this crap, feel free to leave out my original statements, your replies, AND my latest replies.)
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From: Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu> (spaced arrows are my statements, close arrows are Mike's)
> From: Steve Borzilleri <silenzio@elwha.evergreen.edu> > Subject: Re: ROSS666 > > To AirDance@aol.com: I find it extremely distasteful to put someone's home > address on a mailing list without their consent. Please tell me you > actually talked to this person and asked them what was up before you put > their home address on the Ytsejams for hundreds of people to mail to, or > flame the hell out of via their America Online address.
>Until you actually realize what this person did... He was _SELLING_ the >Kevin Moore Demos, which were, by the entire distribution system, dubbed >and meant to be give for the COST OF A TAPE. This disclaimer was also >included with every copy of the demos made, and I find what Ross did to be >EXTREMLY shameful.
Yes, it's shameful. But again, I received no such documentation with my copy. So I'm deaf and dumb, right? I can't do wrong, right? I can act as that guy did since I'm justified, since I didn't receive this disclaimer with my copy? Or would it be proper to simply blame the guy who mailed me my copy?
> This happened with that Jeremy fellow, and what really stunned me was that > the guy who HAD his number didn't try CALLING him first. Instead, he threw > Jeremy's home phone number up on this list so that the world could call > him. Did anyone ever find out what happened with him or are we still > calling him to tell him he sucks and writing him hate mail? Yes, I know he > screwed a lot of people, but personally I would try to establish contact > myself and TALK to him and see what's up before doing something like this.
>And, as someone (I think Pat Daugherty) said, he no longer has the one >email address, has CHANGED his phone number to an unlisted number, and no >longer replies to his Compu$erve address... I think that is a pretty good >sign that he is a low-life and doesn't deserver the defense that he is >being given.
So who's defending him? I don't even know him. I'm defending the rights of the individual to privately distribute and regulate their home address and phone number. Yeah, it happens all the time, but it's still wrong in my opinion. For doing what he did, totally masking all contact with the outside world, yes, he is a low-life and deserves no defense. (again, if you wish to reply, feel free to leave out all above statements.)
I know I will not comment on this discussion anymore, so yes, both of you will have the last word in whatever you have to hit me with. If anyone else wishes to enter this open debate on Jeremy & Ross Wine Coolers, go ahead, but as of this moment I'm out of it.
Bafu Vai
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Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 03:47:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "Brian V. Cox" <bvc8995@tam2000.tamu.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: set list for summer tour Message-ID: <199505060847.DAA17082@tam2000.tamu.edu>
ok, someone posted last digest about the setlist they wanted for the upcoming tour that hopefully will happen after the EP release.
this is a decent thread to start, i guess, so here is mine:
(Simpsons intro music) 6:00 (with IF ending) Surrounded Caught in a Web Mission: Impossible theme Light Fuse and Get Away Ytsejam (with drum solo) Wait for Sleep (arranged for classical guitar) Learning to Live ****break**** Eve (played from tape) A Change of Seasons To Live Forever Only a Matter of Time Scarred Metropolis ****Encore**** A Mind Beside Itself
first set ~50 minutes second set ~60 minutes enore ~20 minutes
total of about 2 hours 10 minutes (seems conceivable)
i am convinced that Eve, ACOS, and to live forever are somehow connected, and will be in that order on the EP (i have no idea why i think this) :)
i know there are some big things missing, but just saw them all on this last tour.
sooner or later, they *must* revive the wdadu material. they just have to!!
comments welcome....
**always looking for rush/dream theater/queensryche/king's x bootlegs** ============================================================================= Voices repeating me, Brian V. Cox Voices discussing me, "Feeling threatened? lerxst@tamu.edu "Others steal your thoughts We reflect your hopes Dream Theater- They're not confined and fears." A Mind Beside Itself: II. Voices Within your mind." ============================================================================= check out my new homepage: http://tam2000.tamu.edu/~bvc8995
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Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:23:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Dario M Zagar <dmz2@columbia.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: that wrong 6:00 riff! Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950505131458.19582B-100000@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>
Hey, folks, just a brief note to correct that dude who posted the guitar riff (which also happens to be the main bass line) from 6:00. The first couple of parts are correct, but after the 3rd low E, the line should be:
E------------------------------- B------------------------------- G------------------------------- D----2 0 2 0-------0-----0---0 2 A------------2---2---0-2---2---- E--0-----------3----------------
This is my first shot at ASCII transcription, so I hope it worked. BTW, JP only uses the 7-string on CiaW, Lie, and Mirror, the rest are 6-string. Sorry if a million others posted the same shit, but just doing my duty!
Later,
Dario
P.S. I'm picking up the Awake book this week, since I've already mastered every note of the I&W book (HA HA HA HA (that was a little joke by the way))! I can't wait!
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 812 *************************
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