YTSEJAM Digest 1092
Today's Topics:
1) Questions and suggestions...
by Karri K Kiviluoma <kkiviluo@snakemail.hut.fi>
2) Re Various Past Jams
by nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
3) AD Riddle
by Martin Hayter <100734.464@compuserve.com>
4) Re: Michael Coghlan is a....
by CPRS92A@prodigy.com (MR JAN-MICHAEL SOUTER)
5) related to Petrucci?
by haiders@kenyon.edu
6) current subscribers (was Japanese setlists (longer post)
by kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb)
7) polls and freedom
by kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb)
8) reading suggestions
by kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb)
9) posting suggestions
by kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb)
10) Yeah? So SUE me!
by laussade@enet.net (Ktulu)
11) Metropolis Pt.2-"The Ytse and the Jam"
by laussade@enet.net (Ktulu)
12) Re: Jodi
by srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough)
13) I'm a peripheral visionary.
by Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com>
14) various topics
by Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
15) Voices (WARNING-- LONG)
by omkhan@vaxsar.vassar.edu (omar khan)
16) Duality and Easter
by jpgarrett@earthlink.net (James Garrett)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 15:36:39 +0200 (EET)
From: Karri K Kiviluoma <kkiviluo@snakemail.hut.fi>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Questions and suggestions...
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.951029152249.11669A-100000@lk-hp-13.hut.fi>
Me again. A couple of things:
1) Would be kewl if people started to put some informational
value in their subjects too (ie. some clue as what's in the
message). That way this digest format would actually prove
useful =)
2) I'm new at this list so this prolly have come up before. But
I'm kinda baffled about the lyrics in 'Those Who Help To Set
the Sun' on WD&DU. The conceptual , not literal side. Apprecia-
te if someone send me their view (or even a semi-official one
to me ).
3) What's this poll I keep reading about ? =)
Later...
'Sex is Death, Death is Sex' -love that one =)
Oh. Btw ! The guy who commented on the 'Voices' lyrics. Did you
forget the last part of the above quote? (I might have just missed
it). Anyways it fits to your concepts if you think about it.
Good job =)
****************************************************************************
* -= Karri.Kiviluoma@hut.fi =- *
*Email: kkiviluo@gamma.hut.fi Pitk{iityntie 14b < Human mind is too >*
*Phone: (358)-0-862475 02810 Espoo < complex to be chained >*
*Fax : (358)-0-8531583 Finland < by the consepts of >*
* < good and/or evil ! >*
*NO ADS, PUHLEEZE !! < - M[ >*
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 95 15:03:19 +0100
From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Cc: donews!nga
Subject: Re Various Past Jams
Message-ID: <9510291403.AA00255@sundoc13.software-ag.de>
Hi all (no description of the weather today, it seems to piss some people off -
yes shaggy, this means you)
Continuing my last entry about the significance/symbolism of blood in various
religions, those of you who are interested might like to read the article
'Rites and Ceremonies' in the Encyclopedia Britannica. The article contains
a whole bunch of information, and some very specific stuff about blood in
sacrificial and purification rites.
OK, moving on to the next point, which has been receiving a lot of attention
in the last Jams - DT vs NIN. Let's call it DT vs any other band that some of
us may like but some of us don't. As I pointed out in some private emails in
correspondences that arose from the 'punk is shit' thread a few weeks ago, the
main thing for me is that it is well done (matter of opinion) and does something
for me at the time. In one of the emails, I likened listening to Dream Theater
AND the Sex Pistols to eating in a five star restaurant AND in McDonalds: if
you're really hungry and want some fast food, McDonalds is the right thing for
you. If, however, you really want to enjoy something exceptional and you have
got the time to sit back and savour every bite (note), then listen to Dream
Theater. I think eating lobster and oysters and drinking champagne every day
would get pretty boring fairly fast. The comparison may be a bit extreme, but
I think the point comes across.
One last one for today. In the Jam 1083 Richard Karsmakers asked what the word
gullible means. Well, that repository of American English (slight contradiction
in terms there!!) Websters defines it as follows:
'gullible, easily deceived or cheated, readliy duped'.
Example: he's so gullible, he really believes John Petrucci has nothing better
to do than send messages to the Ytsejam.
Here endeth the English lesson for today.
stay safe and happy listening
Neil Gallop
(nga@software-ag.de)
Currently playing: Joseph Haydn - Symphony 82 (The Bear)
------------------------------
Date: 29 Oct 95 10:37:33 EST
From: Martin Hayter <100734.464@compuserve.com>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: AD Riddle
Message-ID: <951029153732_100734.464_EHV41-1@CompuServe.COM>
A huge thanks to Mike Bahr for a storming CD - much appreciated by myself and a
friend of mine. If it's not already been posted, the answer to the riddle "What
walks on 4 legs in the morning, 2 at midday, and 3 at dusk" is a man i.e. he
walks on four when he is a baby (in the morning), two at midday (most of his
life), and three in the evening (he uses a walking stick in old age). (Answer
courtesy of Fiona MacDonald).
Is anyone going to enlighten me to the logic (or lack of it) behind the numbers
riddle?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:34:08 EST
From: CPRS92A@prodigy.com (MR JAN-MICHAEL SOUTER)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Michael Coghlan is a....
Message-ID: <013.03769211.CPRS92A@prodigy.com>
-- [ From: Jan-Michael Souter * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
>
>Finally the lead lurker speaks!
>
>though, he did loan me his DT boots (7 of them) to listen to. So, I
>guess he's not that bad of a guy. By the way he also got me and my
>friends in the very front of the line when DT came to Deep Ellum in
>Dallas on the first leg of their Awake tour. Not bad for a long
haired
>slimy toad hippie freak. :)
>
>Michael C.
Oh man.....you've got me blushing over here. Never thought I'd be
blushing over reading something on the Ytsejam !!
See, times like this are when I'm -glad- I do NOT work with you
any longer !! bahaha I'm just kidding :)
> FINALLY, the lead lurker speaks!
You are cold-blooded, man :) Ok, my first Ytsejam was #700.
True, my wife and I were at the very front of the line for DT in
Dallas.
I'm sure we were hated by many in that line :) And you are very
welcome for saving you and your friends a place first in line in front
of all of the pour souls that had been waiting there in line a few
hours.
Must be nice to drive up to a Dream Theater concert about 15 minutes
before the show starts and low and behold just walk up to the stage :)
HOW DARE you call me a "slimy toad hippie freak"....<grin>
The long haired part, that's ok :)
Thanks go out to STEVE PERKINS (a non-Ytsejammer) who got both Michael
Coghlan and myself -hooked- on Dream Theater. These guys are my
absolute favorite band on the planet. I can't even think of my 2nd
favorite band.
The Marc Bonilla tape is still as of yet unclaimed :)
______
/ \
| |
| (O)(O)
@ .---_)
| |\___|
| \__/ |\/\/\/|
/-------\ | | .~~~~~~~~~~~~~.
/ /^\ \ | | |THAT'S NOT A |
/ | /\ \ | (o)(o) |BUTTERFINGER!|
| \ / \ | @ _) |/~~~~~~~~~~~~"
| \ \ |\ | '___| /
| \ \ \ | /
| \ \ \ /' ^ |\
|~~~~----____\ |^U \ \\
\ /| /^JJJ ,/\ \\
\ // | / \ \\
| || \ _____/ \ \\
| || | // |^^^UUU^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
| || | || !^^^|^|^^^^^^^^^|^|^^^!
| |I_- | |__--, |^| |^|
l___-____) l______]' |^| |^|
DoH!!
Jan-Michael
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:18:30 EST
From: haiders@kenyon.edu
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: related to Petrucci?
Message-ID: <00998989.81383640.64@kenyon.edu>
Perhaps this has been discussed before, but I have a question.
During the late eighties there was an all-girl band named Vixen, and
their drummer's name was Roxy Petrucci. Petrucci never mentions any family by
first name in any liner notes, and the Vixen album doesn't contain any
reference to him. However, I think there is a resembalance. Anyone know
what's up here?
Sean Haider
bassist, INTROSPECTION
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 09:51:12 +0800
From: kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb)
To: ytsejam
Subject: current subscribers (was Japanese setlists (longer post)
Message-ID: <9510291751.AA11370@anthor.arastar.com>
On 28 Oct 1995 23:49:32 CDT curth@execpc.com said:
> BTW, Ken, how many 'jammers are currently on the list?
At this moment, 1147. (Last night it was 1151.)
> I'm curious with all the subscribing and unsubscribing going on.
Well, there's *always* a lot of sub/unsub activity. There was more than
average unsubscribing going on (starting around the BM thing) but there
have also been subscribes. As an example, there 25 people that I helped
unsubscribe (in another window) along with 8 subs.
-- Ken Bibb "If the boundary breaks I'm no longer alone kbibb@arastar.com Don't discourage me jester@crash.cts.com Bring out the stars/On the first day" David Sylvian--"The First Day"------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:00:39 +0800 From: kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb) To: ytsejam Subject: polls and freedom Message-ID: <9510291800.AA11422@anthor.arastar.com>
(In reply to my comment:
>> Please do not CC the list when you reply to any polls. For that matter, >> don't send poll replies to the 'jam :)
On Sun, 29 Oct 1995 00:01:55 PDT srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough) said:
> I thought you were the one who created this list so people could > talk about anything related to DT?
Re-read what I wrote. Am I forbidding polls? For that matter, am I forbidding the Cc'ing (or posting of poll replies) to the 'jam?
No.
I am not forbidding polls. I am *suggesting* that polls be done in a ytsejam-friendly way. If you read up on netiquette, you'll see that in mailing lists and newsgroups, polls are supposed to be done offline in private mail. After all of the private mail is sent in, the person doing the poll is then supposed to post a summary back to the list or newsgroup (note that I do not say *anything* about posting poll summaries to the list).
If you're still doubtful, I suggest you go through and count the number of times people have said that they've enjoyed seeing poll results in the list (there are people who prefer it that way) and count the number of people who dislike it.
But even if this data supports my suggestion you're still free to ignore it :)
-- Ken Bibb "If the boundary breaks I'm no longer alone kbibb@arastar.com Don't discourage me jester@crash.cts.com Bring out the stars/On the first day" David Sylvian--"The First Day"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:33:56 +0800 From: kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb) To: ytsejam Subject: reading suggestions Message-ID: <9510291833.AA11734@anthor.arastar.com>
This is the first of two posts on how to deal with the number of 'jams. Please at least read the "TOPICS" below before deleting. Info on getting the welcome message again are at the end.
TOPICS 1. Why are there so many 'jams each day? 2. Digest vs Ack 3. Using the Contents section (and Subject lines) of the digest 4. Reading controversial posts 5. Use digest mode (rfc1153) savvy mail readers
1. People have been asking what can be done about the number of 'jams going out each day. I've already previously explained why this is happening, here are some suggestions on how to determine if a 'jam should be read :)
But, to recap, the reason there are so many 'jams is because of the number of posts being sent out. As has been mentioned, this *is* an automated list. Posting guidelines will follow
2. If you want all of your Ytsejam mail in one place, the digest is the simplest way of dealing with it. If you are receiving ytsejam messages individually (ie "ack" mode) you may want to consider changing your subscription to digest mode (instructions on changing modes are in the welcome message).
If you only want to read posts from certain individuals, or if you absolutely hate someone's posts and want them deleted, you might prefer receiving the mail in ack mode and using a mail filter (either standalone like "procmail" or built-in like the one with Eudora). By filtering your mail, you can put all of your ytsejam posts that you're interested in into a single folder (outside of your normal mailbox). You can also filter out on certain strings like "Blind Melon", "unsubscribe", or "Ken Bibb" :)
Btw, the main reason for multiple 'jams in a single day is that most sites have limits on the size of a single piece of mail. If a message arrives which violates that limit it is rejected and you, the subscriber, will never see it (and usually not receive any warning that this has happened). By keeping the jams under 1000 lines, the limit is not broken on the major net sites.
3. The contents section is, surprisingly, often skipped. If ytsejammers use appropriate subject lines (as mentioned in the other post) and as long as they stick to that topic, you *should* be able to just read the contents section to figure out if you want to read the whole digest (or just part of it). Many mail readers let you "search" so you should be able to skip forward to the relevant posts while skipping unimportant ones.
4. If you feel your blood boil while reading a post, rather than send your superheated flame to the list, send it to yourself. If you still like what you posted after 4 hours, send it to the list. The "downtime" might make you decide that the post should be sent to the original poster (and not the list) or it might even make you realize that you don't really want to send that flame.
5. If your mail reader supports RFC 1153 (Digest Message Format) turn that option on and the mail reader will automatically split the messages on the "------------------------------" separator lines. An example of this is when you use the nn newsreader as a mail interface (yes, this can be done).
HOW TO GET THE WELCOME MESSAGE AGAIN
send:
info ytsejam
to ytsejam-request@arastar.com with a subject of "asdf".
-- Ken Bibb "If the boundary breaks I'm no longer alone kbibb@arastar.com Don't discourage me jester@crash.cts.com Bring out the stars/On the first day" David Sylvian--"The First Day"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 10:45:22 +0800 From: kbibb@arastar.com (Ken Bibb) To: ytsejam Subject: posting suggestions Message-ID: <9510291845.AA11769@anthor.arastar.com>
This is the second of two posts on how to deal with the number of 'jams that have been going out recently. Please at least read the TOPICS area before deleting. Info on getting the welcome message is included in the first part ("reading suggestions").
TOPICS 1. Use the correct address 2. Read the FAQ before posting 3. Use the subject line correctly 4. Trim down your attributions 5. Use proper signatures 6. Don't reply to polls to the list 7. Don't send virus reports, chain letters, etc directly to the list. 8. Help control content through private mail.
1. Please don't send subscribe, unsubscribe, or any other request to the list. They're boring. Only two of the ~1150 subscribers can help. So don't do it. Instead, send your request to (note the -request) ytsejam-request@arastar.com
If you want to know *how* to do these things, either look at the welcome message (which explains how to do the important things) or send email to the list owner. The list owner address is *NOT* the same as the list--it is (note the -owner) ytsejam-owner@arastar.com
2. If you haven't read the FAQ, please do so before posting. If you haven't read it recently, you might consider reading it again. To get your copy via email by sending a message to drkhoe@netcom.com with a Subject: line of Send DT FAQ This includes background on many of the songs, answers to many historical questions, and sources for some of the samples used. Highly recommended :)
It's also available in ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/dr/drkhoe/dt
3. Subject lines, when used correctly, greatly aid the reader in deciding whether or not a post should be read. If you want to discuss Mike's awesome drumming, your subject line should reflect that. If you're interested in picking up men who drive fast cars (hi, babs ;) say so and you'll save a lot of readers a lot of time.
Putting things like "DT Content" "*** IMPORTANT ***" etc are doomed to failure.
Subject lines of "Re: ytsejam 1053" are also not very useful, but are sometimes forced on you by your mail reader. Try to use a reader that lets you change the subject to a relevant one when possible.
4. When replying to another message, only include as much info as is necessary to provide a context. Don't include signatures, ascii art, full tab, full lyrics, etc unless absolutely necessary. In the case of tab or lyrics, provide enough so that others can figure out the context, but you don't have to post the entire thing (unless that's the point of what you're doing ;)
Including the entire previous digest is *never* a good idea.
5. Signatures that include cool ascii art, the lyrics for all of the albums of a band, or uuencoded digitizations of your fave tune are cool the first time, but they quickly grow old when repeated.
Please limit the length of your signature to 3-4 lines when posting to the digest. Better yet is to sign your messages with a single line (there are many commendable people who are already doing this--I'm not one of them).
Web pages are a better place for sharing the other aforementioned stuff.
6. Polls. If you want to do them, take it to private mail and have the poll's originator post the summary. *Don't* post your reply to the list. *Don't* Cc your reply to the list. Reply in private mail. (The purpose of a *poll* is to get a summary. If you would like to discuss your taste in music, don't mislabel it by calling it a poll.)
7. If you hear about a virus (remember last Christmas's Good Times virus announcement virus?) DON'T post to the list. Although many people might share your platform (Sun, Mac, PC, etc) others don't. Viruses currently aren't good enough to affect all of the platforms out there. Post warnings to ytsejam-owner and I'll forward them to the list if relevant.
Same goes for chain letters, postcards to cancer stricken kids, chocolate chip cookie recipes, etc. Don't send them to the list.
8. If you see a post that you really like, email the author in private email to let them know. Same goes when you *dislike* a post, send your reply in private mail. This will, in and of itself, cut down the mail. (If you want to publically praise someone, or if you want to publically flame them, you'll need to post to the list. If you're complaining about the size/number of jams and you're doing things on the jam that you could be doing in private mail, you're just part of the prob. Be a solution.)
Another way to control content is to think about what you're about to post and remember that it's probably going to be around in someone's archive for quite some time. There *are* people who are read the older posts and there probably will continue to be people who read old posts...
PS. You are free to disagree with and ignore these suggestions. The only restrictions on posting are: o message length (the software will reject things if they're too big--ie tens of Ks) o other mail software limitations o lines starting with "From" (I hope to fix this during winter break) o spam (if I catch it, I'll delete it before it gets distributed).
-- Ken Bibb "If the boundary breaks I'm no longer alone kbibb@arastar.com Don't discourage me jester@crash.cts.com Bring out the stars/On the first day" David Sylvian--"The First Day"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 11:37:20 -0700 From: laussade@enet.net (Ktulu) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Yeah? So SUE me! Message-ID: <199510291837.LAA25498@maple.enet.net>
>(and to lassaude and miller, who wrote that the nin/dt thread has only 2 >viewpoints, this is dedicated to you, buds)
OK, so I was wrong, but you could at least spell my name correctly, Skawt.
L-A-U-S-S-A-D-E (la-SOD)
It's kind of a pain in the ass, though. When I sent in the post saying that there were only two views to the DT/NIN thread there had only BEEN two views. But later that night looking at the latest Jam there was like three million different views (which I happen to skip for reasons I know not of). As you can imagine, I felt just the slightest bit (<----sarcasm) sheepish. I hoped no one would post and point out my rather obvious mistake, but you did and I want to thank you for that. Oh wait! No I don't! Sorry, my mistake. Ben Laussade laussade@enet.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 12:12:31 -0700 From: laussade@enet.net (Ktulu) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Metropolis Pt.2-"The Ytse and the Jam" Message-ID: <199510291912.MAA26210@maple.enet.net>
Metropolis Pt.2-"The Ytse and the Jam"
New Thread! Type up your parrodies of Metropolis Pt.1! Make sure the lyrics can be sung along with the song. Maybe we can vote on a winner or something and send them a whole bunch of flames for making fun of DT's lyrical work :) Just kidding. Send 'em in. Make 'em funny. I like to use the word 'em. The instances where I use 'em? I find 'em greatly amusing. I'm going to make 'em change my name to 'Ben. I think that would please 'em.
See 'em
Ben Laussade laussade@enet.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:02:28 -0800 From: srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: Jodi Message-ID: <199510292102.NAA28549@wizard.qualcomm.com>
Just realized you are a women! Sorry for any disrespect.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Tell MTV What you think! Want more musical variety on MTV? Want more music on MTV? Miss Headbangers Ball? email MTV on October 31st! mtvmail@aol.com or mtvnews@mtv.com or feedback@mtv.com @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:47:01 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: I'm a peripheral visionary. Message-ID: <199510292047.NAA08137@bud.indirect.com>
You know, the latest few Jams have been downright... GOOD! Thanks to everyone for their input, including those LONGER messages about the meanings of songs and in the NIN thread. I enjoyed them all.
OFFICIAL NEWS: ACOUSTIC DREAMS IS SOLD OUT. All 500 copies are either reserved or already paid for. In a few weeks I'll know if there are any cancellations. For now, if you have an unpaid reservation, please make every effort to send the order in to me when you can.
Thanks to EVERYONE here for making Acoustic Dreams the most successful CD I've ever made! It sold out completely in one THIRD the time it took to sell out Subconscious, and Cygnus is still not quite sold out! (still got a couple dozen). Then again, I _have_ slacked a lot on advertising. I do this because repeated ads are ignored, while rare ads tend to be noticed. :)
Already the orders are piling in for WDATU. I'll have another update shortly... probably tomorrow night... with current numbers, current stati (statuses?), and how-to information.
Once again, for the benefit of those just tuning in, Acoustic Dreams is SOLD OUT COMPLETELY. Full story at 5, 6, and 10 tonight.
Someone mentions concern that someone had gotten a Subconscious at the same time as Acoustic Dreams. I don't _think_ that's ever happened, but it might have happened of its own accord (Sub's being re-sold and so on). I've been out of Subs for a loooong time, and believe me, if I had more to sell, I _would_.
Mike Bahr, durnik@indirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 14:57:56 -0600 (CST) From: Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: various topics Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.951029144808.15623B-100000@timon.acu.edu>
Greetings again Much thanks to Omar for his most intelligent thoughts on Voices. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on The Silent Man in respect to Voices. I know we've already determined the connection to Arabian Nights, but I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are regarding the connection of the two songs, as they are part the same concept. I asked about this topic a while ago, and no one reponded, until now. Thanks. I would like to respond to the person who said I contradicted myself regarding duality and good/evil (the two sides). I didn't contradict myself. What I didn't do was qualify every point I made in the interests of space. As I've stated before, I'm a Christian. I believe there are two sides: good/evil (God and Satan). I do not believe good and evil are two equal "forces." That is dualism. That is what I do not believe in. I believe good is stronger than evil: God is stronger than Satan. I'd be happy to continue this discussion if anyone is interested.
I think I just "discovered" Blues Traveler's second album (Travelers and Theives). I've had it for a while but never got into it. For those who have trouble getting past the grituitous overplaying of "Runaround," I recommend listening to the entire albums. I consider much of what they do kind of blues/prog. More blues, but they are definitely standard blues. They can also really jam.
I think there was something else I was going to say, but I forgot. Oh yeah! To the few individuals who keep saying "who cares?" in regards to the DT/NIN debate: Apparently quite a few people care, as the debate has continued to prosper.
Kyle Mallett
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:45:39 -0400 (EDT) From: omkhan@vaxsar.vassar.edu (omar khan) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Voices (WARNING-- LONG) Message-ID: <01HWXOMT2TCY0009PS@vaxsar.vassar.edu>
first of all, thanks to the comments of inIquity vs inEquity. I was too lazy to actually look the words up but I think that Portnoy has chosen an interesting play on words.
with all the questions regargding Christianity and paganism on the 'jam, i thought i might respond with a not- so- short analysis of Voices, perhaps the most complex song, at least lyrically, that DT has produced to date. Sorry if this has alreadty been done, but i only skim the monstrous 'jams for stuff that seems interesting. And, oh yeah, this is going to be long; after all, Voices is about 10 minutes and full of interesting lyrics.
First of all: the title. According to discussions by Socrates, he supposedely had 'voices' in his head that would point him away from unwise decisions and lead him to the proper course of action. This in itself seems almost tangential, but when the "pagan" (as I think J. Garrett referred to) influences of Cassandra and others come later in the song, it becomes less irrelevant. Socrates was told by the Oracle at Delphi, the highest religious functionary in the ancient Greek world, that he was the wisest man in the world. But this was porblematic to Socrates. All he came to realise was that he admitted what he didnt know, while many of the supposed wise men claimed to know what they did not. This made him wiser than them. At any rate, Socrates reportedely had voices or spirits that would guide him along the most wise path. No judgments about this notion, please. It is simply to introduce the breadth of Petrucci's knowledge, and an important connection between the ancient and the new and the significance of the voices in historical philosophy.
Throughout the song, it seems like Petrucci is trying to reconcile his mind with the vast amounts of ideologies that have been impregnated in his head since his education. Principally, there seem to be two voices, corresponding to the "he" and the "she." First and foremost: Christianity. Petrucci clearly knows his Christian doctrine, but it seems as if he cannot reconcile himself with these views. Why on "Sunday morning?" He is in bed, when he should be in church. In the beginning of the song, "'Love, just dont stare' he use to say to me" seems to be a reference to the first and early learned voice of Christianity during Sunday's Mass. But then we have the more paganistic conceptions of the spider as a widow; perhaps this reference of poision is when the spider/widow gives the poison to the old man (you know, black widows are poisonous). This leads to "'So Speak, I'm right here' she used to say to me, not a word, not a word." Clearly this is the other voice, reflected by the she. She allows him to open up his soul to her, but it is a one- way street; she will not say a word. If we want to talk about a juxtaposition of paganistic/ Christian thinking, Petrucci is a genius here. The 'she' refers to the pagan society, and the 'he' to the Christian. Anceint cthonic societies were based on the mother goddess and were more maternalistic while looking earthward rahter than heavenward. The female side was "more important"-- thus the she. In Christianity, however, we have a paternalistic society (all the prophets, God Himself being male) wherein Eve created original sin. The imagery is quite mixed and confused throughout the song, reflecting the narrator's (Petrucci?) own difficulty in reconciling the irreconcilable and being able to live in society free of these ideologies and at peace with himself. But the voices of the past keep interrupting, and they wont go away.
"Judas on the ceiling, the Devil in my bed": This phrase is particularly interesting, and although Kevin Moore is the Joyce fanatic, this fits in well with Stephen Daedalus' problems in Portrait of an Artist. Despite his halfhearted rejection of Christianity, that mindset and methodology of thinking is the only one that our young narrator has at his disposal. So when he cannot see salvation for himself through Christianity, he goes to the opposite extreme. With the Christian education being particularly strong, and with no true understanding of other ideologies, the narrator is forced to put his life in the terms of that philosophy. So if he isnt saved, he must be evil. Without any other philosophical tradition at his disposal, he comes to see himself in league with Judas, the ultimate betrayar (see also Joyce's Ulysses, chapter 3, entitled Proteus), or with Lucifer the fallen angel of evil (cf Portait of an Artist, towards the end). Yet he guesses "that Easter's never coming, so I'll just wait inside my head." What is Easter in the Christian religion? Well, for our narrotor, it is related to when Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead, but he doesnt believe it. So he doesnt really believe himself to be evil or inherently good; rather, since he doenst have to worry about going to hell, he will just "wait inside his head", i.e. he will just live his life as well as he can.
"Like a scream but sort of silent living off my nightmares." The voices are searing and stretching him apart; with all these notions running about in his head, it is diffuclt to control himself and his own emotions. "Feeling threatend? We reflect you hopes and fears" seems to be one of the voices--- i'm not quite sure whose, but it is there in his head. "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind" seems to Definitely be a reference to the Christian ideal that God is everywhere. Yet for our confused narrator, there are so many different voices tugging him so many ways. He has learned many things, but it is a struggle to find the sanctity of his own mind and the ability to live through the veritable clouds of confusion that mar his mind-- "Thought disorder, dream control"
(whoa, this is getting long. i will, reluctantly, accept flames for this length. 10 minutes is a lot of lyrics and Petrucci has thrown all of Western thought into a relatively short piece. One could proabably fill an entire digest with simply references made to one LINE of the song)
"But where was the Garden of Eden?"-- where is his paradisical peace; where can he find solitude and placidity in a world that broadcasts our thought on the radio? Most of this section and the part that follows is in direct conflict with Christianity and his mal- reproach towards those beliefs. In one way, God protects you, with the Saviour helping us to salviation, but He can also reject us if our thoughts, which are always present to Him, betray our mistaken fears and beliefs. Sex is Death: this probably erupts into his mind because, in all likelihood, he is not a virgin and has probably had sex with someone to whom he is not married (based both on contemporary facts about society and on the context within the song).
"I'm kneeling on the floor"-- prayer, but with relucatnce, confusion, and indecision. "God in poilticians?"-- he knows that contemporary society is a complete mess with the radio, his diary on the newsstand and how we have "lost the TRUTH to quicksand." But what is the truth-- is it Christianity? Sort of--- "Love, just dont stare." "Reveal the Word when you're supposed to." Notice the capitalization of "Word", suggesting it is some higher doctrine. But not, probably, Christianity. So what is left?
"Maybe I'm just Cassandra fleeting, 20th century icon bleeding" -- Now we have returned to the ancient, perhaps "pagan" ideas. Cassandra was that famous seeress of ancient past and, persumably, was granted with 'voices' in herhead. So instead of being in league with Judas or the Devil, he realigns himself with the ancient Greeek past and the diffculties of hearing voices that might forcast our doom. The 20th centruy is often seen as the most abhominable, with two world wars and, according to some (the Pope, actually), a culture of death. But he is "willing to risk [Chrirstian] Salvation to escape from isolation." He feels alone and isolated in the Christian ideals and its world, and wishes/doubts that someone (God?) might "rid me of my secrets, deliver us from Darkness." Darkness for all of "us", presumably humanity, has defaced soicety, especially now in the twentieth century. However, in the end, he comes to realise that one cannot simply accept the ideals of others and that we cant "espect (y)our own Messiah (as) this neverworld which you desire is only in your mind."
So, in the end, it does seem to be optimistic; the narrator has reconciled his confusion through the realization the he cannot live his life through any other imposed doctrines. While this seems to be a slight angainst Christianity, it rather appears that, because of the malaise way the religion was transmitted to him, he could not accept its tenets. For him, Christianity could not be a satisfactory way of living his life and he needs his own-- in his mind. To each, his own. Just make sure that it is in your mind, and not just something that you cling to flailingly and weakly. It seems as if love is the crux of the succeess of his thinking; not at all surprsing from the man that gives us "Love is the Dance of Eternity."
I definitely thinkthat Awake is a concept album, but I will hold back on that dissertation. I have not posted much before, even though I have subscribed since the 700's. I dont really KNOW that this is what Petrucci sees, and there are a couple of confusing parts to me that i cant quite explain, so i never bothered to post before. I'd be interested in any commentary. I wonder if this makes Petrucci a literary genius, on top of his already bequeathed title as a guitar '"god." I have often found that it's easier to get people into DT if you explain the lyrics first. Even an exclusive classical music nut was broken by that method by yours truly. OH yeah, the music of Voices isnt bad either. (sorry for the length).
-Omar Khan
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 13:34:05 -0800 From: jpgarrett@earthlink.net (James Garrett) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Duality and Easter Message-ID: <199510292134.NAA16515@atlas.earthlink.net>
1) >> I don't believe in duality, but there are two sides. There is good >> and there is bad > Duality is the basis for most Western Philosophy. The only way that we know good is that it is not evil. Without evil good would have no meaning. The same with right and wrong, day and night, life and death.
Ken Bibb responds:
>Hmm. Sounds like you're contradicting yourself, Kyle. The duality >of good and evil is by definition a duality. As to why goodness >is not praised, I personally feel that it's harder to represent >joy, hope, and happiness in art than it is to represent the darker >aspects of life.
Although I agree with your position on duality, I disagree on the proposition that goodness is harder to represent than the "darker aspects of life." I think that people are beginning to believe that "goodness" and "morality" are social constructs of the dominant ideology. I think that goodness is not praised as much any more because people don't really know what goodness is anymore. Isn't this one of the struggles that the persona in "Voices" is dealing with?
>Ars est ars. QED. Comparing groups is like asking "Which is more >red--the flavor of pears or the smell of pears?" If the art speaks >to you, it speaks. If it makes you hurl...
This above paragraph seems to prove my point. Art and its messages are seen as subjective--"If the art speaks to you, it speaks. If it makes you hurl..." If everything is subjective, how are we supposed to know what it good? The only goodness would be a subjective goodness, and everybody would have a different notion of goodness.
2) Micael C. writes:
>On this part I would differ from you. Easter in Christianity is the >celebration of the resurection of Christ. So it sounds like to me >that: > > 1.) he doubts Christ was raised from the dead which is a MAJOR doubt > when it comes to Christianity. > > 2.) somewhat aligning myself with you Omar on this, if Christ was > never raised from the dead then how could he come back to rapture > His church?
Although the primary meaning of Easter is Christ's resurection, Easter also is a symbol of death and rebirth. To a Christian this can have a couple of meanings. 1) The moment you are saved, you die from your old life only to be reborn into a new life with God. This can be considered an Easter.
2) Christ promises the few who are lucky enough to be saved a spiritual rebirth after physical death to be one God in Heaven.
Thus Easter can mean any type of spiritual rebirth. Although in everyday discourse, people mostly use Easter's primary meaning, in poetry, these lyrics are a type of poetry, the emaning is not so easy to nail down.
May Vishnu protect you,
James Garrett
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1092 **************************
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