YTSEJAM Digest 1088
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1079
by coghlanm@ix.netcom.com (Michael Coghlan )
2) Echolyn
by TILLOTWA@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1084 - DT vs NIN????
by MillerA999@aol.com
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1070
by Baron Sengir <tsbileci@beta.loyno.edu>
5) Ivanhoe/Blood/Stuff
by nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
6) good thread
by eiagm@eznet.net
7) Any more Ivanhoe on the net?
by "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
8) subscribe
by j@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu
9) subscribe
by j@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu
10) My bootleg list
by Gregory Slang <slang@internexus.net>
11) Visa Card Holders - NDTC !!
by "mmetzger" <mmetzger@bostech.com>
12) Stuff about the Japan shows!!
by Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com>
13) Portnoy at the House of Blues?
by jpgarrett@earthlink.net (James Garrett)
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1086
by eiagm@eznet.net
15) Worth mentioning / Surrounded
by Ytse <jramsey@uofport.edu>
16) Man, OH Man.
by laussade@enet.net (Ktulu)
17) Boots
by roland.theysohn@protel.de (Roland Theysohn)
18) Re: To many ytsejams
by "Robert Quezada" <rquezada@monmouth.com>
19) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1081
by jtack1@ic3.ithaca.edu
20) Shadowplay request (NDTC)
by jtack1@ic3.ithaca.edu
21) It was good on today's show!
by Kotaro Nagai <GAA01107@niftyserve.or.jp>
22) Ytsejam Revision
by bresleja@bigvax.alfred.edu
23) reality obscured
by Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
24) Marc Bonilla tape
by CPRS92A@prodigy.com (MR JAN-MICHAEL SOUTER)
25) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1080
by Nathan Dayspring <tsbileci@beta.loyno.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 00:04:36 -0700
From: coghlanm@ix.netcom.com (Michael Coghlan )
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1079
Message-ID: <199510280704.AAA23815@ix3.ix.netcom.com>
>
>I continue to find it curious to see Christians dismiss things as
>non-Christian simply because it is depressing.
I trust you didn't get that idea from something I posted.
>Being a Christian isn't a picnic. This is not a criticism, just
>reality (as I see it).
You are truly correct Kyle, being a Christian in some ways is very
hard, but once you become a Christian (as you know) there are a lot of
benefits and strength to get throught life that you never had before.
It's hard to put into words.
>>> Obsenity (waitaminute, didn't this thread die?)
>
>All language is symbolic. One who says that the use
>of foul language is a non-issue isn't thinking well.
>Given the opportunity, I doubt one would greet the
>Pope with: "So, how the hell are ya' Popemeister!
>I think it's fuckin' great that came over here to
>visit us Yanks." Okay, so that's an absurd extreme,
>but one wouldn't let such language casually creep
>into such situations. Why? Because language is not
>only symbolic to the speaker, but also for the
>listener, and it is often symbolic in different
>ways. Like the over-use of adverbs in writing, bad
>language over-used demonstrates poor understanding
>of clear communication. If not this, so often,
>then it is used unnecessarily as a shock factor.
>In the end, language _can_ be harmful as are *ideas*.
>
>Sorry if I'm burning a dead puppy with this issue...
>
>Zach
Well said Zach. This is one of the most intelligent posts on this
subject I've read yet.
Michael C.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 02:27:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: TILLOTWA@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Echolyn
Message-ID: <01HWYH9ZNMAG8XOMD4@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Does anyone know how to get the first Echolyn CD?
..And Every Blossom, I think it's called.
If so, e-mail me.
Thanks!!
Andy Tillotson
"I like to play...[ding]" -Garth
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 04:20:38 -0400
From: MillerA999@aol.com
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1084 - DT vs NIN????
Message-ID: <951028042036_78471893@emout05.mail.aol.com>
enough with this subject already. comparing bands is futile, especially
when they are as different as these two. NIN and Dream Theater are from two
totally different genres. I really think someone needs to come up with
something different to discuss.
Andrew Miller
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 00:48:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: Baron Sengir <tsbileci@beta.loyno.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1070
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.951028003128.25154N-100000@beta.loyno.edu>
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:21:38 +1000 (EST)
> From: "BRENDEN R. THOMSON" <slayerbr@student.gu.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: Enslaved (NDTC)
>
> > >Enslaved? What's that? Are they good?
> > So basically they are a metal band with some thrash, speed, and prog
> > influences...and they're Christians. They are currently unsigned,
> > but have been shopping their demo and contacting several labels (REX,
> > Intense, etc). They plan to be performing at next years Michigan
> > Mosh Fest (Memorial Day weekend), which I'll be helping out at (and
> > wearing GC and DT shirts...ok, some more DTC). Right now I'm the
> > drum tech, plus whatever else they need me to do...lowly peon, I.
>
>
> Well tell 'em to change their name because the real ENSLAVED is a
> black metal band with world wide releases and they are a black metal band
> - ie none of this Christian shit - they are fucking evil.
Are you're sure you're not thinking of ENTOMBED? Then again, Enslaved
sounds like it could be death metal. Of course, when you think about it,
it isn't a bad name for a Christian band either.
------------
> Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 00:52:55 -0400
> From: Erotomania@aol.com
> Subject: Re - The "Offensive" Post, and a little DT!
>
> I got email from someone accusing me of being a red-neck
> pro-lifer because I quoted Ted Nugent regarding Cobain's
> death.
>
> 1) I live in Philadelphia. No rednecks here that I know.
> 2) I took a friend to an abortion clinic twice.
> 3) I watched two people get shot at a distance close
> enough for me to identify the gun, in a bar.
> 4) I am the furthest thing from racist. Ask any of my
> co-workers at my previous job. Or the customers.
I feel that this sort of thing is unwarranted. Our political views should
make no difference. We are here to talk about MUSIC, not politics.
Whoever flamed you has a problem. After reading this, I could have mailed
you and called you a murderous baby-killer, but I'm not going to do that
because I don't think it's right. And no I don't actually think you're a
murderous baby-killer for helping a friend to an abortion clinic. My
stance is simply that your friend made a mistake. Had I been in your
postion, I most probably would have stood by my beliefs and NOT helped
anyone to an abortion clinic. But the again, I don't know what the
situation was.
For the record:
1) I live in New Orleans. There are PLENTY of rednecks in Louisiana. I am
not one of them.
2) I AM PRO-LIFE. If someone has a problem with this, feel free to flame.
I will IGNORE YOU.
I'm just sick of seeing so much childishness on this list.
Sorry for the non-DT content, but I felt a need to say something about
this. I doubt the people who blasted Hairball because they THOUGHT he was
a pro-life conservative (to them, I guess this equates to REDNECK) would
appreciate it if I mailed THEM and said they were communist bleeding
heart baby-killers. (Which I won't do, of course.)
Paul
He-who-used-to-be Nathan Dayspring
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 15:15:43 +0100
From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Cc: donews!nga
Subject: Ivanhoe/Blood/Stuff
Message-ID: <9510281415.AA01397@sundoc13.software-ag.de>
Hi all,
it's Friday afternoon, and true to form it has just started raining again.
Oh well, get ready for some more of my geriatric ramblings. Just three points
today.
1. The Jam has recently contained recommendations for a band called Ivanhoe.
I managed to check them out on Wednesday night (after I had vacuumed my flat:
see Jam 1080) at a small venue here in Darmstadt. I think it was Trey Allen
who was really pushing them, and I can only agree with him. The band are really
worth a listen. The place they played is only small, but even so, the 50 (!) or
so paying punters still seemed a bit lost. Not to be put off, the band played
a good set, and the crowd made as much noise as they could after each piece.
When it came for the encore, they played bits from Dream Theater and Metallica
and were grinning broadly the whole time. Looks like a good band to follow.
2. There has also been quite a lot in the last Jams about the occurrence of
blood in some of DTs songs and the symbolic/mystical significance of blood
in christianity. Well, blood also plays an important role in several other
religions, especially in what are popularly known as 'primitive' cults. The
role of blood is, I think, quite obvious - a giver of life, a natural force
that we can't live without, something positive (with the exception that crops
up in many religions/cults of a woman's menstrual blood as being tainted, bad,
evil and something to be avoided). So I don't think that the use of this
fairly universal symbolism can be used to deduce that DT (or some of the guys)
are practicing christians.
3. Ken Bibb has recently posted a couple of things about neurologically
determined differences between the sexes. Perhaps this could explain why
most of the women that I know who are into metal/prog metal etc. are NOT
into playing air guitars and headbanging!!
4. (Whoops, must learn to count one day). Of course I made a mistake yesterday:
the title of Moist's excellent debut album was 'Silver'. I haven't received
any feedback about the band yet, so if anybody knows anything, let me know.
stay safe and happy listening
Neil Gallop
(nga@software-ag.de)
Currently playing: Little Feat - Electric Lycanthrope (possibly the best
bootleg ever by any band)
Special note for Graham Borland: I'll have a beer for you tonight!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:35:25 +0000
From: eiagm@eznet.net
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: good thread
Message-ID: <199510281459.KAA22314@mail1.eznet.net>
>Gawd, I can't believe how everyone had jumped on this stupid DT vs.
>NIN bandwagon?!
Why not? Finally an interesting, DT-releated thread that should
require no flames such as yours.
>To me, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Why don't you just
>try and compare Van Halen I against E. Power Biggs "Greatest Organ Works"
>album?!? You could justify the arguement that EVH playing Bachesque
>triplet figures on his guitar showed much more emotion and balls than
>E. Power ripping them off on a church organ.
>
>Bullshit!!
>
>BOTH works have their own merits, but neither have ANYTHING to do
>with the other -- so how can you compare two totally separate items to
>determine if one is better than the other?!?!?!?
>
>When you figure out a good answer, lemme know...
OK, try this. Comparison helps our understanding to grow. Better
understanding brings more tolerance and greater enjoyment of the
music. An awful lot of the posts on this subject have not
necessarily tried to compare in order to determine which was better.
Most simply analyzed the two different art-forms as they are, and
left value judgements out.
To all those who did so - I applaud you.
Mike S.
PS - where was all this intelligence when we discussed Blind Melon?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:16:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "L. Jason Hartman" <lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Any more Ivanhoe on the net?
Message-ID: <199510281516.LAA17549@umbc9.umbc.edu>
WOW!!!! These guys are really cool!! I've got tapes with tons
of assorted prog bands and this is the 1st band that has ever captured
that Images and Words style that I love so much. I've only heard the
5 samples (about 2mins worth) from Trey's homepage and I'm in love already!
Someone else said that they sound another sample on some prog web site
but I couldn't find it anywhere. Could someone please let me know what
other Ivanhoe material is on the net? I checked at Gibralter and didn't
find anything.
-- ************************************************************************** * Jason Hartman "I am the Killing Hand!" lhartm1@gl.umbc.edu * * * * You're fighting the weight of the world, * * and no one can save you this time. * * Close your eyes - you can find all you need in your mind. * * * * "Take the Time" - Dream Theater * **************************************************************************------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 16:25:18 0600 From: j@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: subscribe Message-ID: <199510281525.KAA09067@roatan.ucs.indiana.edu>
Please place me on your mailing list my address as follows
Domenico Italo Composto Read-Beck 0224 Bloomington Indiana, 47406 (812) 857-9830
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 16:25:19 0600 From: j@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: subscribe Message-ID: <199510281525.KAA17262@roatan.ucs.indiana.edu>
Please place me on your mailing list my address as follows
Domenico Italo Composto Read-Beck 0224 Bloomington Indiana, 47406 (812) 857-9830
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:18:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Slang <slang@internexus.net> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: My bootleg list Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.951028121040.15942A-100000@micro.internexus.net>
I'm looking for DT boots with rare or recent setlists. If anyone would like to trade, here's my list. ----[ RECORDING LEGEND ]-----------[ QUALITY LEGEND ]---------------------- AUD Audience Recording A+ Top notch amongst rest in group TV Recorded from TV A Great quality, with few flaws RB Radio Broadcast A- Flaws are somewhat obvious, but a good listen SBD Soundboard Recording B+ An obvious problem exists, but a good listen. ST Studio B Quality is lacking, but is still listenable. VR Video Recording B- Muddy sound and multiple flaws. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE LOCATION VENUE/TITLE TIME QUALITY ---------------------------[ DREAM THEATER ]------------------------------- 00/00/87 Majesty Demo "InstrMental" 45 min ST A+ 00/00/00 Kevin Moore Demo "Music Meant to Be Heard" 40 min ST A+ 03/04/93 New York, NY "The Dance of Eternity" 120 min AUD A 05/18/93 Buffalo, NY "Dream Out Loud" 90 min AUD A 07/04/93 Augsburg, Germany "Skyway of Nightmares" 90 min AUD B+ 11/15/93 Milon, Italy "Lost in the Sky" 110 min SBD A+ 01/24/95 Saitama, Japan "Mind Control" 110 min SBD A+ --------------------------[ END OF LISTING ]-------------------------------
I also have plenty of Rush/Led Zeppelin/Phish/Yes
Reply E-mail if interested. _____________________________________________________________________________ G R E G O R Y S L A N G "The words stuck in my mind E-MAIL: <xanadu@internexus.net> alive from what I've learned WWW: http://www/internexus.net/~slang/ I have to seize the day" -DT -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: 28 Oct 1995 13:17:48 -0500 From: "mmetzger" <mmetzger@bostech.com> To: "YTSEJAM" <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com> Subject: Visa Card Holders - NDTC !! Message-ID: <n1397236022.81684@macsmtp>
FYI -
Felt obligated to pass this along although I assume that this only applies to those YTSEJAM cardholders in the US. Many banks are supposedly unaware that this promotion is going on. And, to all of you skeptics out there (of which I am definately one :-) I called Visa and they verified that this promotional deal is for real !! You can verify this yourself by calling the Visa hotline at 1-800-VISA-911. And, Visa said that it is acceptable when you will be asked for your expiration date.
Mark Metzger mmetzger@bostech.com Sleep is great, but it's no substitute for caffeine.
****************************************************************************
>> All expenditures on your VISA card from June 1 thru August 31 have >> earned you 10% of the total amount charged on your account, i.e. >> if you spend $1,000 within this time period, then you have >> "100 certificates" accumulated with VISA. >> >> Here's where YOU need to take action! Since VISA has 85 million >> cardholders, they won't be mailing out certificates to everyone. >> The only way to receive your "100 earned certificates" (which converts >> to $100 toward Red Lobster Restaurants, Mariott Hotels, rent-a-car >> agencies, Southwest Airlines, etc.) is to call VISA! >> >> DIAL.... 1-800-520-VISA, press #4 on the tape to speak with a >> VISA representative, and then...... REQUEST THAT YOUR CERTIFICATES >> BE MAILED TO YOU! The rep. will ask for your mailing address and >> if you call today or in the very near future, the certificates >> will arrive in about 3 weeks. Otherwise, it'll take bet. 4-6 weeks. >> >> So, be sure to call this number today & have your certificates >> mailed to you.... Happy Spending!
>> Note: To claim a reward, you must call M-F 8:00AM to 8:00PM, >> central time. Prerecorded background information is available 24 hrs.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 12:50:31 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Stuff about the Japan shows!! Message-ID: <199510281950.MAA21624@bud.indirect.com>
Hi all!
Just finished talking with one of those cool Japanese Ytsejammers who got to go to the NHK hall show in Japan last night and talked to Portnoy to boot! Here's the nitty gritty right...
Setlist....
Under a Glass Moon The Mirror Lie Lifting Shadows Covers Medley: The Rover, Killers, Damage Inc, In the Flesh, Heart/Sunrise Innocence Faded A Change of Seasons Guitar solo/Surrounded Keyboard solo/Erotomania/Drum Solo/Voices/The Silent Man Pull Me Under -=- Wait For Sleep/Learning to Live
2 and a half hours! can ya beat that!! Say, I wonder if they'll ever play old Dream and day (or earlier) songs just for kicks, since the rest of the setlist rocks so hard.
Okay, the word from the horse's mouth (the animal) is that the two posts were fake as both John and Mike are totally computer illiterate, BUT they really enjoy reading the Jam printouts (more of which were given to him after the show) and they get a big kick out of us, and are honored that a group of fans could be this hard-core. That's pretty cool, eh?
Also, it's official from the Man: "Yit-say-Jam" is the way we pronounce our beloved list name. I'm lazy, so I will probably continue to say "Yet-see-Jam", but it will be wrong. :)
Mike Bahr, durnik@indirect.com
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:05:27 -0700 From: jpgarrett@earthlink.net (James Garrett) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Portnoy at the House of Blues? Message-ID: <199510282205.PAA14560@atlas.earthlink.net>
1. Anybody have details of Mike Portnoy appearing at the House of Blues in November? I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in LA, they broadcast live from there every weekend. This might be a chance to see him on TV.
2. Somebody wrote:
>Oh, and is it just me or does the "Attention all planets of the solar >federation" bit at the end of 2112 sound like the protagonist has lost >to syrinx? I think the combination of cheesy processing and cheesy lyrics >did the three boys in. >
"Attention all planets of the Solar Federation. We have assumed control."
Uhhh--If someone has just assumed control, doesn't that mean that they weren't in control before? Obviously the Priests of Syrinx lost their power to some Solar Federation that the protagonist would gladly join.
2112 was released in 1976. How can you say they were done in when they have had almost 20 years of success after that release?
If that post is an attempted joke(your context does not make it clear whether it is or not), then ignor my post. If the post is serious, then pay closer attention to the lyrics and history. James Garrett ________________________________ jpgarrett@earthlink.net
This album contains material which a truly free society would neither fear nor suppress. Frank Zappa
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 18:09:25 +0000 From: eiagm@eznet.net To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1086 Message-ID: <199510282234.SAA27235@mail1.eznet.net>
>The comparison of NIN and DT should not even be thought about.
"Duh, OK Stalin."
Mike S.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 10:48:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ytse <jramsey@uofport.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Worth mentioning / Surrounded Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9510281033.B8314-0100000@wally.uofport.edu>
With all of the recent talk about people's favorite guitarists, bassists, keyboardist, etc., I am continually suprised by the absence of one particular name. Without boring everyone with another list, I feel it is my obligation to mention the great B.B. King as the greatest guitarist of all time. Now, we all know JP rocks, but no one can touch B.B. King when it comes to style. 'nough said.
Now for a more important question that has been bugging me for the better part of two years. In the song "Surrounded", there is the line, ". . . and from an Ivory Tower, hears her call 'let the light surround you'". Now my question is, who is in the ivory tower? Is it the girl, him, or both? Help me out here.
Jarrod Ramsey-Lewis University of Portland
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 11:08:13 -0700 From: laussade@enet.net (Ktulu) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Man, OH Man. Message-ID: <199510281808.LAA00525@maple.enet.net>
Am I the only one that looks forward to and enjoys reading the Jam???
Ben Laussade
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 95 19:12 MESZ From: roland.theysohn@protel.de (Roland Theysohn) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Boots Message-ID: <m0t9Eo3-0002tiC@ns.protel.de>
Hi Jamers,
As you maybe know I am from Germany,and its hard to get Boots there. Now my Question:Has anyone Information about Traders,that sell me Boots. The Problem is,that I dont have a Credit Card. Is there another Way to get Material? Thank you for your Attention. Roland ----Excuse my perhaps false Writing------I am a KRAUT from Germany---
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 14:25:19 +0000 From: "Robert Quezada" <rquezada@monmouth.com> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: To many ytsejams Message-ID: <199510281832.OAA20744@shell.monmouth.com>
> As much as i like dream theater and this mailing list can we please do > something to make it so we dont get 4 or 5 a day. Im not a busy person > but even i dont have time to read all of them. Why cant the people that > run this just take all the messages in one day and make a digest out of > it or something. This is just getting to much getting 4 or 5 a day that > in the end i have to delete because my mail box is so full.Mark > > > That's like saying you'll get less mail in your mailbox if they're rubber-banded together. :)
I don't see how that will help.
rq
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: jtack1@ic3.ithaca.edu To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1081 Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.951028150449.54411N-100000@ic3.ithaca.edu>
> I have two questions: > 1.How long ago did Criss Oliva die? (a year ago or something)
October 17th marked the two year anniversary of his death.
> 2.Was he ever a member of Dream Theater? NO > So why do all of us who never even knew him personally have to read, > and send posts about him to Ytsejam, the DREAM THEATER digest????
I believe that when you subscribe to the Ytsejam, you receive an introductory message that describes what this mailing list is for. I believe that it is says something to the effect of: "The list is a forum for Dream Theater fans to discuss the band and other related subjects (Related subjects include other progressive metal bands such as Fates Warning, King's X......" etc., etc.
I believe Savatage would fall into this last category.
This is why we have subject lines: if you aren't interested in a subject (such as Savatage or Criss Oliva), skip that message.
Just a little friendly advice to make your Ytsejam experience more enjoyable for both yourself and the rest of us.
Jodi
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:37:37 -0400 (EDT) From: jtack1@ic3.ithaca.edu To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Shadowplay request (NDTC) Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.951028153103.54411P-100000@ic3.ithaca.edu>
Does anyone have any information on the band Shadowplay? I saw them open up for Dream Theater this summer at the Strand in Providence, Rhode Island. They played before Echolyn (whom I wasn't impressed with, by the way. Am I the only one?)
I got one of the two-song Shadowplay demos that were thrown out into the audience, but I'm getting sick of listening to them over and over again. I was just wondering if anyone knew how to get in touch with the band to maybe get a different demo.
Feel free to e-mail me directly! Thanks!
Jodi
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 05:08:00 +0900 From: Kotaro Nagai <GAA01107@niftyserve.or.jp> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: It was good on today's show! Message-ID: <199510282016.FAA28538@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
Hi all,
I've been to the first show in Tokyo. It was great! It was exciting! The set list is as follows:
1. Under a Glass Moon 2. The Mirror 3. Lie 4. Unknown instrumental 5. Lifting shadows off a dream 6. Instrumental including intros of "The Rover" and "Heart of the Sunrise" 7. Innocence Faded 8. A Change of Seasons 9. Guiter Solo 10. Surrounded 11. Erotomania (including Mike's Drums shaw case solo) 12. Voices 13. The Silent Man 14. Pull Me Under
Encore 1. Perfect Strangers 2. Wait For Sleep(accoustic Guitar Arrangement) 3. Learning To Live
It's about 150 minites long! It was the first chance to hear ACOS to me. The next show in Tokyo is October the 30th. Off course I shall go to see.
regards.
*** K.Nagai: gaa01107@niftyserve.or.jp from Japan<95/10/28 23:35> ***
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:21:12 EDT From: bresleja@bigvax.alfred.edu To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Ytsejam Revision Message-ID: <009988D9.DCAF7F20.37@bigvax.alfred.edu>
For some of you who don't like getting 5 jams in one day, here is a suggestion. Instead of having everyone's post put in one digest that contains 25-30 posts, have each post mailed to everyone individually. I personally would rather get sporadic mail throughout the day than sit through 5 digests and read them all. In other words, don't wait for 25 posts to make up 1 digest. As soon as someone sends a post, everyone should receive it 20 minutes later. Just a suggestion. DT RULES. JonBoy
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:33:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: reality obscured Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.951028152120.11872B-100000@timon.acu.edu>
I'd like to address an issue that has arisen from the whole DT/NIN debate. First, I would like to make one comment: I really find it humorous how many people are saying that DT and NIN are two uncomparable types of music. Are we listening to the same bands? Both are using the Western scale, both are American bands singingin English, both bands use guitar, keys, bass, drums, and vocals. both bands have albums with very good production. Simply because they have different perspectives to life and play a somewhat sonically different style of music, doesn't mean they are uncomparable. Comparing Rush and Picasso is like comparing apples and goats. Comparing Yes and Mozart is awkward, and less conclusive, but would still be interesting. I just don't see DT and NIN as being THAT different musically. Well, anyway, onto my point. The issue I wish to addresss is the idea of honesty and reality. I know I mentioned this in my personal contribution to the debate, but now I am addressing it in general terms, as opposed as in reference to DT/NIN. I really find it baffling that bands who are negative and say everything sucks are considered honest and real, while bands who express hope and joy are considered to be living in a fantasy world. I don't believe in duality, but there are two sides. There is good and there is bad, if everything is bad, then there really is NO point, period. People have such a tendency to praise those who are "willing to see the dark side of life and point out the evil in human nature, etc, etc." Yet, it is somehow considered naive to look at life positively. If life really IS entirely bleak, then pointing that out is nothing special. If darkness is all there is to see, then it is no virtue to recognize that. My basic point is that you can be honest and realistic and see BOTH the good and evil. I think what is unrealistic is to see only one, whichever it may be.
kyle mallett
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 17:03:02 EDT From: CPRS92A@prodigy.com (MR JAN-MICHAEL SOUTER) To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Marc Bonilla tape Message-ID: <013.03738632.CPRS92A@prodigy.com>
-- [ From: Jan-Michael Souter * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
Greets. I saw a few people talking about Marc Bonilla's album "EE Ticket". That name rang a bell and I went through my tape collection and found it. I remember only listening to it a couple of times and it didn't make a big impression on me. So after reading the 'jam I got my tape back out and listened to it again. Now don't get me wrong -- I LOVE instrumental music with NO vocals. I absolutely love Ozric Tentacles, GAMALON!, Tony McAlpine, Yngwie J. Malmsteen (especially non- vocal tracks), Satriani, etc etc.... But this EE Ticket by Marc Bonilla just isn't my 'cup of tea'. Sure would be a waste for me to hold on to this tape that I don't like. I'd rather ship it to someone who is looking for it. Sorry it isn't a CD, but it's only been listened to a max of 5 times and of course is in perfect condition. Please send me EMAIL if you'd like me to ship it to you. That'd be the quickest response as I've been trying to catch up reading 'jams from - last- month!! I read all the 'jams - even if it takes me days, I slowly but surely read 'em all.
Hairball - Glad to see you back on the 'jam! Even if those ramblings about audio bug others, I like to read 'em !! Keep it up, bro! Ya know.. "Hairball" would be a good name for a group! Hmmm
Later.. Jan-Michael cprs92a@prodigy.com
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Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 16:27:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Nathan Dayspring <tsbileci@beta.loyno.edu> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1080 Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.951028145952.28956H-100000@beta.loyno.edu>
> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 01:00:29 -0700 (MST) > From: Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com> > Subject: Many important things
[Lotsa stuff deleted] > Now on to other issues. Mailing errors! I respond to EVERY piece > of e-mail I get, no matter who sends it, no matter how large or small, > unless it's something trivial like "thanks, talk to ya later" or somesuch > thing. If you're mailing me and not ever getting a response, PLEASE check > your server and/or mailer. I may be replying to everything and it may > never be getting to you intact. Only the net.gremlins know for sure... I > secretly suspect they play all sorts of gamesBIG DOGZ! BIG DOGZ! BIG > DOGZ, LANDING ON MY FACEwith messages in transit that may completely alter > the content.
I also sent you some mail about the magic trades and about getting the bootlegs. I don't know if you got it or if I simply didn't get your reply. Anyway, I'll just ask you this on the list. Will you trade the 3 bootlegs (Cygnus, AD, WDaTU) for the Magic cards you need for your sets? I don't have a lot of money, but I have vast Magic resources. This might be my only chance to get those bootlegs anytime soon.
> From: John Hackley <jhackley@nctsdg.navy.mil> > Subject: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails > > I have been in a debate with my friend Mike for days about why Dream > Theater is ten-fold better than nine inch nails. Somebody help me out. > I have only this to say to nin; learn to play your instruments if you want > to call yourself musicians. Here is his argument:
This is an interesting thread. > Why do I prefer nine inch nails over DT? Number one, their honesty. > We live in a society peopled by a Generation X, which lacks a moral > compass, a direction or any real feeling.
[Deleted the stuff about Gen X]
> > nin's music is abrasive and shocking, matching these lyrics. > They compare Generation X to sheep and pigs, demonstrating that they > only have base motivations, like the need for food and sex. > > And what of Dream Theater? DT portrays REAL emotion. REAL > feeling. Their music is melodious and elicits an emotional reaction. > But it isn't honest. It portrays a world that except for very minor > conflicts (the loss of love, the loss of artistic integrity) is pretty > ideal. > > It is not our world.
Who ever said that music has to be about "our world?" > Most Gen X'ers can't identify with that kind of world. The > melodies leave them cold. Perhaps DT can't bring itself to face reality > or maybe they're trying to transcend it, but their music is in the final > analysis a lie, a cheat.
I guess I'm an exception. I'm 20 and I like DT's lyrics much more than I like NIN's. > In ACOS, a lyric states "even though I'm gone, I will live > on." Wrong! Dead is dead. Just ask the lead singer of Blind Melon.
But also ask the hordes of Kurt Cobain fans. Shannon Hoon might not have meant a lot to many people, but Cobain's death was remembered for quite some time. It depends on the person.
> Honor thy father and honor thy mother are outdated notions. The son of > the fictional protagonist of the song will probably not even shed a tear > for his father. Or if he does, there won't be anything but a vacuum of > societal expectation that predicates it.
Let me ask this. If your father passed away (assuming he is still alive) would YOU shed a tear? Are you suggesting that Gen X are so emotionless that they would not mourn the deaths of their own fathers? I think that's rather erroneous. I shed MANY tears for my grandmother and great uncle, who both passed away within the last 5 years. And I still think about them. My memory of them will last until I die. I would probably be twice as distrought over the loss of my father. > "Seasons change, and so can I," DT sings. > > But you can't change. You can't transcend.
Yes you can. Not everyone can do it, but someone with enough willpower and determination can do it. ACoS is about life. Things change in your life. Each person changes as they get older. It's called MATURING. Maturity in itself is a form of change, but it's gradual.
> "I am the truth from which you run, and I control you," nin sings. > It means you can try to change, but you're just making a temporary > escape from your own nature. A nature that you hold as a consequence of > the how you were brought up. > > "He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see," --- nin. > > "We can hope for the future...," --- DT
If we hold no hope at all for the future, then we are doomed to remain in the sorry state that we are in, now. > "Life was filled with wonder....," --- DT > > "My whole existence was flawed," --- DT
I think you mean NIN on that last one. These two statements are not necessarily contradictory. Everyone's existence is flawed. This only means that no one is perfect. That's not to say that life can't be filled with wonder. You've also got to look at the line "Life was filled with wonder" in relation to the entire song. This line is in Part II (Innocence). When you are young, innocent, and not aware of the entire world around you, you life is INDEED filled with wonder. It may not be this way for everyone, but you get the idea.
Also, look at some lines from part VII (The Crimson Sunset):
I'm much wiser now A lifetime of memories run through my head They taught me how for better or worse, alive or dead I realize there's no turning back Life goes on the offbeaten track
This is AFTER he has lived his life, matured, and changed throughout it. He has learned how to handle both good and bad situations. He has a lifetime of memories, certainly not all of which were good ones. I think is rather apparent in part V (Another World).
> Do you see the difference? One lives in Utopia, one lives in > the shitty world we've inherited. It's more honest. It's > uncomfortable. A nin song will never make you happy, but a DT song > might. But DT's happiness isn't honest, it's a lie built to escape misery.
I think that's why people listen to Dream Theater. Think about the name of the band. I know it's named after and actual theater called The Dream Theater, but they chose that name for a reason. This is the stuff dreams are made of (both good and bad). It's not SUPPOSED to be completely realistic and honest. Of course, there are many statements made in the lyrics that can be applied to real life situations. Hell, sometimes people's dreams can have a bearing on real life.
> All this is not to say life is hopeless or full of despair. It's > just to argue that nin's music is a reflection of reality and DT's music > is an escape from it. Depending on your tastes, both approaches have merit.
Yes, I will agree with you here. Dream Theater, for the most part, is an escape from reality. I think there's too much "reality" around us and sometimes we need some sort of realease. Why should one constantly immerse oneself in total reality? Escape is good.
> One last point. nin's infleuence is powerful. We've seen it in > other groups like Filter, Alice In Chains and even Pearl Jam. The > message is so strong, that even DT is being affected. Read part 5 of > ACOS and you'll see what I mean. Regardless of musical talent, you have > to admit, that of the two groups, nin has the more powerful message.
I don't think NIN influenced Portnoy to write part V. MAYBE they did, but I don't know. Somehow, I doubt it. NIN and DT seem to be on different spectrums. And I'd say DT has influence. Look at all of the musicians on this list who have been inspired by Dream Theater. DT is like this generation's Pink Floyd or Rush. They are progressive and influential, but not appreciated on a mass scale. Pink Floyd DID become quite popular, but Rush tends to remain popular only with it's fans. They don't have a lot of MASS appeal. But that's okay. The masses tend not to be so bright.
You know, this parallel almost reminds me of the oppositte parallel between "Silent Lucidity" and "Enter Sandman." Queensryche is the more artisic band and as such, "Silent Lucidity" was a more poetic effort about lucid dreaming. It touched on various aspects of dreaming, including nightmares, good dreams, and even dream control. Metallica, on the other hand are rougher around the edges. I'm not saying that Metallica aren't artistic, but they ARE rougher with their thrash sound as opposed to Queensryche's prog-rock sound. "Enter Sandman" focusus on only those dreams known as nightmares. They don't bother with the "good" dreams. They're intent is more to scare you. Both songs represent ways to look at the same thing (dreaming). They are pretty much at oppositte sides of the spectrum.
I use these two as examples because they came out at roughly the same time. I have both Empire and Metallica and I enjoy both alums. I'll listen to one or the other depending on my mood.
> If anyone would care to engage in a mass debate (no pun intended) > on specific points, please do. My criticisms of DT are purely > scholarly, not personal, so I hope we can have intelligent discourse,
This IS the Dream Theater list, after all. There ARE intelligent people here. Many of us lurk (or walk <G>) in the shadows and only come out when we feel a need to speak.
> rather than a cussing match. But judging by most of your posts, > ("You dude, DT rulzzz!) I'm pretty pessimistic....
Heh. I figure that most people on here already KNOW that Dream Theater rules, so I feel there's no need to be redundant. <G>
But what the hell:
Y0 D00D DREEM THEATR R0KS. THEY RUL SO MUCH I CANT TELL U HOW MUCH THEY R00L. THEY JUST R00L. Can't wait to hear from you.
I bet you can't. <G> > From: BABS@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1078 > > > Hello everyone, it's BABS. I have a big favor to ask of all of you so > here goes: > > Does anyone have a list address for cars? The reason why I ask is that > someone recently approached me who works for Xerox in Rochester, NY. A > while back (we're talking a few years here) they ran an ad that showed > a Ferrari and a copier. The jist of the ad was to demonstrate which one > came with a better warranty, etc. Anyways, this person needs to locate > a Ferrari to be used for a display at a show. Thus I am trying to locate > a Ferrari that someone would be willing to "loan" for the display. There > is a way to arrange financial compensation for this endeavor. So I would > greatly appreciate any help that you all can give me. > > Thanks > -BABS > > PS This is not a joke or a ploy to meet men - HONEST!
I believe you. I mean, if you want to meet men, I'm sure there are plenty of eligible bachelors on THIS list. <HINT HINT> :) > From: "Sanjay A. Modi" <ModiS@lafvax.lafayette.edu> > Subject: THE JAM > > Hello, > I'm right now stuck in easton, PA and I was wondering where I could > find some of the new dt stuff(not ACoS) but like Acoustic Dreams, etc. and > what else is out there. SEcondly(This has nothing to to with DT,except that > they rock too) is that does anyone have a copy of the TRANSFORMERS > movie??????It's something i'm trying to hunt down. Thanks, Jam-on
I have the movie on video tape and I think I can dub it for you. E-mail me. This should have been in E-mail, but I'm in the middle of read the 'jam while in the editor. See, Pine quotes the ENTIRE digest, so I reply, quote and read the 'jam in the editor. I respond to each point and delete everything I don't respond to.
I ALSO want to ask if anyone has (or knows where I can get) a copy of the Transformers Movie Soundtrack on CD. I have it on tape, but it's worn out and I can't find it.
The soundtrack is awesome. IF you can find it, I'd suggest any DT fan listen to it. The thing is, I've never heard of ANY of the bands on it before! I haven't seen albums by any of these bands and I'd like to hear more by them. Yeah, I know it came out in like '85. <G> Anyway, some of the bands/performers on the soundtrack are Stan Bush, Lion, NRG, and the band that sang "Hunger" (can't remember the name of the band). The only artist that I recognized was Weird Al.
Also Vince CiCola (score for the Rocky movies) does some great instrumentals on it as well. > From: eiagm@eznet.net > Subject: *****IMPORTANT***** > > Dear People, > > This contains a very important message. > > > Truly, this message will change your life. > > It even has DT content. > > I can't stress enough how ****IMPORTANT***** this message is. > > I will be sure and send this to the jam several times. I want to > make sure that all 1200+ of you read this over carefully. > > You should be sure to save this message to you hard disk, and then > onto a floppy, just in case your hard disk crashes. > > > The IMPORTANT message is coming up very soon. > > Here it is: > > > > > DT is a damn good band. > > > I know, I know. I shouldn't have given such a startling > revelation without enough warning.
I quoted the whole message because I thought it was pretty funny. Redundant, but funny nonetheless.
YEAH I THINK DREAM THEATRE R00LS TOO D00D. <G>
Note: I spelled "Dream Theater" wrong on PURPOSE. It's LeBrie's last name I can't always remember how to spell (is it La Brie or Lebrie?).
Paul
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1088 **************************
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