YTSEJAM Digest 1082
Today's Topics:
1) Re: techie question...
by Fredrick McConnell <fredmc@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
2) my ACoS article, AD sub site
by Matt Masi <dblagnt@tmok.com>
3) osaka show
by "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5OUyEhNzAbKEI=?= " <GCH06672@niftyserve.or.jp>
4) PPV Video/Thought Industry
by 191547620@UCIS.VILL.EDU (Stefan T. Rau)
5) Shadow Gallery
by - Shaggy - <giant@wam.umd.edu>
6) ****IMPORTANT****
by Bandersnatch <shaggy@wam.umd.edu>
7) Neil Gallop, nin
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu>
8) My scrotum smells like broccoli!!! Mm, mm, good!!
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu>
9) Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
10) Re: ?????IMPORTANT?????
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
11) Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails
by "R. Hailey" <pass@homer01.u.washington.edu>
12) NIN with DT
by Matthew Sirois <ms014e@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
13) *****IMPORTANT*****
by srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough)
14) Heavy Bones (NO DT)
by srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough)
15) Information Needed!!--Please Read
by Ryan J Benedict <rbenedic@gac.edu>
16) Fwd: CDnow! Order
by coghlanm@ix.netcom.com (Michael Coghlan )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:37:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fredrick McConnell <fredmc@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: techie question...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9510262330.A14895-0100000@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
The CD cannot be playing "slower", but the tape was probably always
faster. CD players read digital information, and store the bits in a
buffer (usu about 10 sec. worth of data) and the info in the buffer is
converted from digital information to acoustic vibrations. That's why it
can't be slow. You probably just got accustomed to it faster than
natural on the tape.
Unless, of course, the master of the CD was done slower than the tape
master, which is a posibility. Someone screwed up in the post-production
(I'm an engineer, I've screwed up a time or two! ::)
Fred
| | || | | | || || | | |Fred McConnell
| | || | | | || || | | |QMS Court Choirmeister
| | || | | | || || | | |(202) 994-9494
| |_||_| | |_||_||_| | |2020 Pennsylvania Ave NW, #119
| | | | | | | | |Washington, DC 20006
|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|__|fredmc@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
And now, you can check out my WWW HomePage at
http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~fredmc
And the Troubadours Home Page at http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~troubs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 18:48:47 -0400
From: Matt Masi <dblagnt@tmok.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: my ACoS article, AD sub site
Message-ID: <199510262248.SAA26109@stone.tmok.com>
Hello fellow 'Jammers.
I've been lurking in the shadows here for a good two years, and now I finally
have something of possible interest to say. :) First, let me say that in the
midst of tiring top 5 lists, incessant Melon bashing (which I'm glad I was
never a part of, altough pissed at their comments), and fake
Petrucci/Portnoy(?) posts, the 'Jam continues to have some great people who
post regularly; you guys really make it informative/fun/wacky/derranged to
read. Thanks.
Now to the business at hand. First of all, I'm a senior in high school, and
I'm taking a journalism class. My teacher assigns us to write news articles
regularly, and since he is also the head of the school newspaper, all of the
articles that we write get sent to the paper for possible publication.
Well, about a month ago, we were assigned a news article of any
style/subject, and I ended up writing one on the release of _ACoS_ (it was a
couple days after its release). I handed it in. Time passes.
Two days ago, the October issue of the Talon (my school newspaper) was
"released" (actually, handed out during lunch :), and my journalism class got
early copies. When I entered the class, the dude who sits in front of me was
already reading the paper. He had it opened to the Entertainment section, and
I see this blaring headline, simply "Dream Theatre", and my name underneath
it. My first reaction was "holy shit", and that gave way to "No! They got
the name wrong!"
Needless to say, the article's presence took me completely by surprise, since
I was never informed that they were going to use it. Well, aside from the
idiotic headline mis-spelling (the editor wrote it!), I think it's a pretty
good article. Hell, I even talk about the 'Jam.
Even though this is old news to everyone, here's what got printed about Dream
Theater and the Ytse Jam in an insignificant student newspaper in Barrington,
RI:
---cut---
Cult progressive metal outfit, Dream Theater, released their EP,
_A Change of Seasons_, last month, in an unprecedented move spurred by
overwhelming feedback from their on-line Internet fan club, "Ytse Jam".
Dream Theater is comprised of five members: James LaBrie (vocals),
John Petrucci (guitars), John Myung (bass), Mike Portnoy (drums & per-
cussion), and recent replacement keyboardist, Derek Sherinian.
Their new EP consists of one previously unrecorded studio track,
"A Change of Seasons", and a selection of live cover songs recorded at
Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club in London, England, in January. These songs
were originally recorded by such big-time artists as Elton John, Deep
Purple, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Kansas, Queen, Journey, and Genesis.
When they toured the world in support of their second album in 1993,
_Images and Words_, Dream Theater performed the then unreleased 20 minute
long epic song, "A Change of Seasons", two times throughout the entire
tour.
Through bootlegging of those concerts, recordings of the songs were
circulated throughout Dream Theater's enormous "underground" fanbase.
The fans almost collectively hailed the song a musical triumph, saying
that it embodied everything that they loved about Dream Theater. As one
fan put it, "What a performance. I can't find the right words to
describe how powerful it is."
Many of their fans are well-versed in the field of computers, and it
was only a matter of time before they set up a mailing list on the
Internet called "Ytse Jam" (taken from the title of a song on Dream
Theater's first album). The list provides a sort of "on-line fan club"
for fans of the band's music, allowing them to send messages that deal
with every aspect of the band to the mailing list, which "echo" to all
of its subscribers all over the world, which at last count, numbered over
1,000.
All of the members of Ytse Jam that had heard "A Change of Seasons"
either live in concert or on bootleg, rallied together and flooded Dream
Theater's mailbox (both electronic and physical) with requests that the
song be recorded in the studio to be put on a legitimate release.
Two years later, the result of the endless feedback finally paid off
for the fans. The "cult classic" was reworked (now clocking in at 23:06)
and finally recorded in the studio and released on _A Change of Seasons_
due to fan input. They even got a personaly note from the band them-
selves in the liner notes of the new EP. It reads, "Many thanks must be
given to the on-line 'Ytse-Jammers' who helped make this recording
finally become a reality."
[Note of possible interest: The author of this article took part in
sending feedback to Dream Theater through the Internet, thus contribut-
ing to the release of _A Change of Seasons_.]
---cut---
As you can see, this isn't a review so much as an informative news article
explaining the origins of _ACoS_. The reason I didn't write a normal review
is that I feel I'm too biased in my DT fandom to present a balanced review of
the album.
Notes about the article: where I put the album title in "_"'s, it was
italicized in print, though they put the title in quotes a few times when I
was reffering to the album, not the song. Also, in case anyone's wondering,
the one quote I used was actually taken from a post from Hairball (thanks!).
Sorry, but I don't know your real name, and didn't want to use your handle. :)
Is this OK with you?
After all is said and done, I'm still floored by the fact that I actually
helped to give Dream Theater some exposure, even if it is only in a small
school newspaper. The way I see it, if one person in my school goes out and
buys _ACoS_ because of my article, it's worth it. Hell, if no one does, it's
still worth it. :)
--------------------------
One final, unrelated note. To those keeping track, I'd be glad to be a dub
site for _Acoustic Dreams_. I have AD #64, my email address is
dblagnt@tmok.com, and I live in Barrington, RI. I have a good JVC compact
component sound system (nothing spectacular by an audiophile's standards, but
it will make really good copies_.
I'll share this high quality boot with anyone who sends me a blank tape and
return postage.
BTW, a standing ovation for Mike Bahr is in order. I must admit to being a
tad let-down by _Cygnus_ (though I am beginning to appreciate it mroe for what
it is - a really good boot _by 1978's standards_), but in my mind, you really
redeemed yourself with AD, Mike.
Take care, all.
,----------------------------------------------,-----------------------------,
| Matt Masi, 'Hiker/Progger - dblagnt@tmok.com | Rush - Marillion - Yes - |
|==============================================| Dream Theater - Echolyn - |
| "What's so unpleasent about being drunk?" | King Crimson - Primus - |
| "You ask a glass of water." - Ford Prefect, | Dixie Dregs - Kansas - |
| _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ | Queensryche - Fates Warning |
'----------------------------------------------'-----------------------------'
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:48:00 +0900
From: "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5OUyEhNzAbKEI=?= " <GCH06672@niftyserve.or.jp>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: osaka show
Message-ID: <199510270054.JAA08116@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
### MAIL START ###
Hello, I'm Kaoru from Japan!
Just now, the first show of Japan finished.
It was AWESOME show!
DT played ACOS (of course), Surrounded, UaGM, IF, WfS (acoustic version!), and
so on.
About cover tunes, they played The Rover, Killers, Damage Inc, In the fresh, T
he heart of the sunrise (which is I most wanted to listen to!!!), and Perfect
strangers.
The show was more than 2 hours, and it was rare case in Japan.
Everyone seemd be very very enjoyed the show.
After the show - it held at Osaka - , I met John M. Then he said that the set
list will be changed at 2 Tokyo shows.
Now I am borrowing my friend's handy PC and writing this message, so when i co
me back to tokyo, I will post full list and report...
We will meet Dan from US on this 28th and go to Music fair.
JP will attend every 3days of music fair.
later,
Kaoru Kobayashi
<gch06672@niftyserve.or.jp>
p.s.I think I will print out this issue and hand it to band!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:16 EST
From: 191547620@UCIS.VILL.EDU (Stefan T. Rau)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: PPV Video/Thought Industry
Message-ID: <m0t8fJL-000039C@donews.cts.com>
Hi, everyone!! Two things....
1> Can anyone tell me how I can get a copy of this Japanese Pay-Per-View
video everyone is raving about? Sounds like it would make a nice addition
to my collection.....
2> Are there any Thought Industry fans here? I heard them recommended
somewhere (either here or on TMNS), so I decided to check them out, and I
serendipitously found and picked up a copy of Songs for Insects on my next
trip to the record store. It's not really my type of music, though, but
instead of getting two bucks for the CD at the local used CD place, I
figured I might offer it to some people who might actually appreciate it,
since I hear it's out of print and presumably pretty rare right now. If
you're interested, let me know, and we'll see what we can work out.....
--Stefan Rau 191547620@ucis.vill.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 11:29:21 -0400
From: - Shaggy - <giant@wam.umd.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Shadow Gallery
Message-ID: <199510261529.LAA21299@rac4.wam.umd.edu>
Just a few quick thoughts on Shadow Gallery - "Carved in Stone"
I find it interesting how people compare bands to each other. While
I think Shadow Gallery (SG) and DT are "similiar" I would never
compare them to each other. I don't really know why. I have never
thought of DT as pompous or pretentious, but I get that feeling
with SG. Actually, I guess I should have said first that I really
like the album. I do. But it seems overblown, and I need to be
in the right "mood" to make it through the disk on one listen.
I like the melodies, but at times they are excessive. I think the
keys and synths are used in excess too. They aren't bad, but they
aren't groundbreaking. Mike Baker does have a great voice, and
their "GhostShip" clocks in around 26 minutes long. I wish,
though, they had listed each track on the sleeve. It looks
like there are only 8 tracks on the album, but pop it into a
player and - voila! 20 tracks! Also, the last track has 2:30
of door knocking...kinda neat, but over 2 minutes of knocking
on a door? Hmmmm. I don't want to discourage anyone from buying
this - because like I said it is good - but it isn't DT and like
someone else said, it ISN'T heavy. A few of my friends who LOVE
DT called SG "wuss-boy" music. I don't think so, but that is what
they said. I plan on keeping this one - unlike what I did with
my echolyn recommendation....can you say "sold!" ?
While I think of it, I find it funny how I was totally impressed
the very FIRST time I heard DT. I knew they were a band I could
get totally into. They blew me away. Maybe that is why bands
like echolyn or SG don't knock me down. They are good, damn
good, but there is something missing I guess. Maybe if I had
never heard DT my feeling would be different. I don't have the
urge to play SG or echolyn the minute I get home or have a spare
minute. I'd much rather here the transition from Mirror --> Lie
than anything on the echolyn disk. Something simple like that.
I rarely like a band so much that I would never let anyone borrow
my album - but DT is one of them. I don't have to be in a certain
mood to appreciate or listen to DT like other stuff. Oh well,
I'll shut up now...
Chris
giant@wam.umd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:10:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bandersnatch <shaggy@wam.umd.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: ****IMPORTANT****
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.951027020526.4858C-100000@rac4.wam.umd.edu>
Breakfast this morning was a smashing plate of scrambled eggs with bacon
and hash browns. Not to mention orange juice. Tomorrow I'm having
hamburgers, the cornerstone of a nutritious diet. I hear Big Kahuna has a
breakfast special going on at this very moment.
Just thought you'd all like to know this hellaciously "****IMPORTANT***"
bit of knowledge. Don't dwell on it, though, because there are a lot of
other, much more "****IMPORTANT****" things being shared here, like the
weather, good books, etc.
Bandersnatch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:51:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Neil Gallop, nin
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951027023820.76992B-100000@moose.uvm.edu>
First: Neil - that ASCII art in your most recent post: does that imply
that you are a firefighter? If so, it's good to know ya, brother!
Second: Nine Inch Nails - the argument (please forgive me, but I forget
who you are) is that nin's songs express emotions felt in the "real
world," while DT's songs are about events in some sort of "imaginary" or
"ideal" world (paraphrasing big time). This viewpoint is absolutely,
positively 100% true - for some people. There are plenty of Gen Xers who
look upon life as a bleak, hopeless situation left upon them by others.
I prefer to look at the world's present state of affairs as a challenge -
more precisely, a set of challenges - which I can overcome using my
intellect, my reason, my passion, and a little help from my friends. My
life is full of hope. I know that changes aren't permanent, but change
is. (Hmmm... That would make a great lyric. Think it's been used?)
In short, even though I fit the age category, I do not consider myself a
Gen Xer. I don't sit around moping, listening to my parents' music (like
Deadheads) or whatever is on MTV this week. Rather, I listen for music
that is honest - to me. Now, I'm not saying that nin's stuff isn't
honest. Trent Reznor puts a lot of emotion behind what he says. nin is
also vrey experimental in their songwriting and arranging. I just think
that that whole mindset is a cop-out. I'm tired of hearing people whine
about how bad shit is. Go out and fix it! That's what I plan to do - as
a teacher, as a firefighter, as an ambulance crew member, as a musician,
as a human being. I try to gear everything in life toward bettering the
situation at hand, rather than just bemoaning my fate. (OK, this isn't
"in short." Flame me.) "I cut myself today, to see if I still feel."
That's a very real emotion. I just think it's a waste of time. Read a
really good book, instead, and see if THAT evokes any feeling. Help
somebody - see if THAT evokes any feeling.
Basically, neither you nor your friend is 100% right or 100% wrong.
You're just attacking the argument from different viewpoints.
Did any of that make sense? I sure hope so.
We now return to your regularly scheduled Top 5 lists, forged e-mail
messages, public flames, disrespect of human beings in general, and the
occasional, though increasingly rare, conversation about music...
***************************************************************
* Christopher R. Merlo |8^)= *
* The University of Vermont, 211 Jeanne Mance Hall *
* Burlington, VT 05405 U.S.A. *
* cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu http://www.uvm.edu/~cmerlo *
* *
* "Bill, strange things are afoot at the Circle K." *
* -Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure *
***************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 03:56:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: My scrotum smells like broccoli!!! Mm, mm, good!!
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.951027034718.82176A-100000@moose.uvm.edu>
Well, if I had put "***IMPORTANT***", you all would have skipped past
this post. Anyway, I want you all to listen to "6:00." This has been
bothering me for quite some time. After James stops singing, at time
5:15 on the CD, in the third beat of the measure (roughly), on the
"clock" of the third "Six o'clock on a Christmas morning", it sounds
like there is an extra bass drum beat, or an off beat. What it actually
sounds like to me is a punch-in. Now, my mind can not comprehend a
drummer punching in (it's bad enough on bass!). The more I listen to it,
though, it really sounds like a punch. I shudder to think of the
ramifications of finding an imperfection on a DT disc.
Yet, I digress. Anyway, what the hell is that?
BTW - Mike Bahr: My guess for the next in sequence was "2112." I still
don't get it. But, now that you've given us the answer, PLEASE explain it!
-Chris, the fresh produce god of Vermont
***************************************************************
* Christopher R. Merlo |8^)= *
* The University of Vermont, 211 Jeanne Mance Hall *
* Burlington, VT 05405 U.S.A. *
* cmerlo@moose.uvm.edu http://www.uvm.edu/~cmerlo *
* *
* "Bill, strange things are afoot at the Circle K." *
* -Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure *
***************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 22:13:04 PDT
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails
Message-ID: <9510270513.AA01103@tengs1.teng>
Only a few short comments (oh boy, this could turn out
to be worse than the BM thread):
I like some of NIN's *music* that I've heard, but
reading through some of the lyrics on a friend's
album, I'd have to tell Reznor "Deal with it! And
move on." It is such a cop-out to go around attacking
institutions (as I've seen so many ex-Catholics do)
for "messing you up." Can't anyone take the responsibility
of thinking for themselves instead of blaming a
pervailing ideology. You *can* find all you need in
your mind to deal with stuff that's happend to you.
It's merely intellectual and emotional laziness that
prevents people from empowering themselves to overcome
social influences that turn out to be harmful for that
person. (The only thing I can say about the "liberal"
movement is that they've had 30+ years to change the
world and it's worse now in many ways. One of the
good things that has come out of it is that a lot of
"evils" that were denied by society at large, are now
out in the open to be dealt with on a larger scale
(racism, molestation, etc...))
Dream Theater is about *music* first. While the images
translated into words add to a song's power, they are
subservient to the music. If one shares similar
emotions with bands like NIN and what the music is
meant to portray, then I can understand your viewpoint,
even if I don't subscribe to it. But, I feel it is
unecessary to open yourself to the world to come to
terms with one's own problems. Deal with it and move
on.
Zach
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 95 22:46:11 PDT
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: ?????IMPORTANT?????
Message-ID: <9510270546.AA01207@tengs1.teng>
>
> The IMPORTANT message is coming up very soon.
>
> Here it is:
>
>
>
>
> DT is a damn good band.
>
>
> I know, I know. I shouldn't have given such a startling
> revelation without enough warning.
I think someone else has been hanging with De Garmo.
(though I realize the sarcasm)
Really, what the hell is the deal with this
**********IMPORTANT********* business? One person does
it and now everybody is feeling the need to post this
in their subject lines. Is this some sort of inside joke
that I missed? Please explain--- OR STOP DOING IT!
Zach
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "R. Hailey" <pass@homer01.u.washington.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Re: Dream Theater vs. nine inch nails
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91j.951026215149.50071C-100000@homer01.u.washington.edu>
On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, John Hackley wrote:
> I have been in a debate with my friend Mike for days about why Dream
> Theater is ten-fold better than nine inch nails. Somebody help me out.
> I have only this to say to nin; learn to play your instruments if you want
> to call yourself musicians. Here is his argument:
>
> Why do I prefer nine inch nails over DT? Number one, their honesty.
> We live in a society peopled by a Generation X, which lacks a moral
> compass, a direction or any real feeling.
agreed to some extent (not all 'gen xers' lead so Pointless an existence)
> Why?
>
> The sixties gave rise to a philosophy of moral relativism, a philosophy
> that "whatever feels right, is right." The adults of today were brought
> up under that philosophy, and grew up lacking any real sense of values.
> They imparted this moral vacuum on Generation X, at the same time
> coddling them, refusing to judge or condemn their actions. Thus the
> problems of widespread violence and illegitimacy.
agreed (again, with exceptions)
> Generation X lacks any real feeling. They've seen extremes of sex and
> violence in the media culture, but rarely anything like true emotion.
> Because of this, they are "Hollow Ones," dead inside emotionally. Numb.
>
> nin addresses this in the song, "Hurt."
>
> "I hurt myself today, to see if I still feel. I focus on the
> pain, the only thing that's real."
>
> nin's music is abrasive and shocking, matching these lyrics.
does it need to be?
> They compare Generation X to sheep and pigs, demonstrating that they
> only have base motivations, like the need for food and sex.
is this an Accurate Representation, or Artful Hyperbole, do you think?
> And what of Dream Theater? DT portrays REAL emotion. REAL
> feeling. Their music is melodious and elicits an emotional reaction.
yes...
> But it isn't honest.
oh?
> It portrays a world that except for very minor
> conflicts (the loss of love, the loss of artistic integrity)
the loss of love is rarely minor, I think...
nor is the loss of artistic integrity, which is really a loss of
identity, a theme I which I believe is not entirely foreign to nin
> [this world as portrayed by DT] is pretty ideal.
I beg to differ...
(please note that the following are * my interpretations*
and are by no means Definitive Interpretations)
'light fuse and get away' is about coping with betrayal
'pull me under' is an intense song detailing the struggles of a Tormented
Soul (see Hamlet for more details)(to be, or not to be...)
'another day' is quite emotional and explores the loss or near-loss of a
loved one
'wait for sleep' is another example of how difficult it is to carry on after
the death of a loved one
'learning to live' is a moving piece about the AIDS epidemic
'to live forever' is a haunting anti-war song
'6:00' concerns a 'loss of artistic integrity' which I feel is not minor
'caught in a web' again explores ideas that are probably old hat to nin --
not fitting in with the world/its views
'innocence faded' is about a changing relationship (and the hurt caused
therby)
'voices' yikes! I'm still not sure, but I think it's about the struggle
with/for/to understand/against/? religion...never minor in anyone's life
'the mirror/lie' describes the struggle within, to be strong and whole and
true to one's self
'scarred' details an attempt to escape lonliness
'space-dye-vest' is yet another example of how the the loss of a loved one
(this time in the form of a broken relationship) can change the very
nature of an individual
'acos' is still another example of what the loss of a loved one can do
> It is not our world.
I would argue that it most certainly Is your world
> Most Gen X'ers can't identify with that kind of world.
most gen xers (by your definition) can't identify with reality
> The melodies leave them cold.
then it is melody that they cannot identify with
> Perhaps DT can't bring itself to face reality
> or maybe they're trying to transcend it, but their music is in the final
> analysis a lie, a cheat.
> In ACOS, a lyric states "even though I'm gone, I will live
> on." Wrong! Dead is dead. Just ask the lead singer of Blind Melon.
or just ask jimi hendrix (to follow your musical allusion)
or ask john lennon
or ask freddie mercury
none of these are forgotten, though 'all dead' for 30, 10, 5 years
or what about bach, beethoven, &c.
these artists live on every time one of their respective works are played,
every time there is a tribute album, every time they are mentioned as an
influential force...
> Honor thy father and honor thy mother are outdated notions. The son of
> the fictional protagonist of the song will probably not even shed a tear
> for his father.[mother -ed]
you obviously haven't heard the anguished 'Please Don't Go!'
which was in a previous version of the song <G>
> Or if he does, there won't be anything but a vacuum of
> societal expectation that predicates it.
that anguish was certainly not merely a Show for the Public (see above)
> "Seasons change, and so can I," DT sings.
>
> But you can't change. You can't transcend.
you change every day, by every experience
> "I am the truth from which you run, and I control you," nin sings.
> It means you can try to change, but you're just making a temporary
> escape from your own nature. A nature that you hold as a consequence of
> the how you were brought up.
are you saying you're the same person you were 5, 10 years ago?
still living the same way, making the same mistakes?
> "He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see," --- nin.
does this help him live a better life?
> "We can hope for the future...," --- DT
"...but there may not be one"
> "Life was filled with wonder....," --- DT
"but those days are gone now"
> "My whole existence was flawed," --- DT [nin -ed]
>
> Do you see the difference? One lives in Utopia, one lives in
> the shitty world we've inherited. It's more honest.
it's the same -- with one vital difference
> It's uncomfortable. A nin song will never make you happy, but a DT song
> might. But DT's happiness isn't honest, it's a lie built to escape misery.
taking everything at face value, it's still not a lie -- it is Hope
and this hope is something which nin denies (from what you say; I regret
that I am not very familiar with his music)
with hope denied, what is the point of going on, of living?
There Is None.
and yet Live we do -- as do gen xers...why?
because there *is* still hope...
hope that something will change -- the world, one's actions/outlook, &c.
> All this is not to say life is hopeless or full of despair.
you're right there!
> It's just to argue that nin's music is a reflection of reality
no, merely of one (the hopless/bad/depressing) aspect of it
> and DT's music is an escape from it.
no, it is fuller view of it, showing both good and bad
for example....
"you won't find it here/ so try another day" -another day
"so forever hold the dreams within our hearts/
through nature's inflexible grace/ I'm learning to live"
-learning to live
"learning from misery/ staring back at dissent/
leaving distrust behind/ I'm inspired and content" -scarred
..and those are merely from the songs I mentioned earlier
> Depending on your tastes, both approaches have merit.
agreed
> One last point. nin's infleuence is powerful. We've seen it in
> other groups like Filter, Alice In Chains and even Pearl Jam. The
> message is so strong, that even DT is being affected. Read part 5 of
> ACOS and you'll see what I mean. Regardless of musical talent, you have
> to admit, that of the two groups, nin has the more powerful message.
or perhaps merely a message that is easier to bear
..it is a terrible burden to be hopeful when those around you feel nothing
but gloom...
or perhaps merely a message that is more prevalent
..I'm quite sure that more people have heard of nin than have heard of DT
just because nin is influential does not mean that it has a powerful message
jimi hendrix was (is) influential and his message (unspoken as it was)
was simply that the guitar is a cool instrument
> If anyone would care to engage in a mass debate (no pun intended)
> on specific points, please do. My criticisms of DT are purely
> scholarly, not personal, so I hope we can have intelligent discourse,
> rather than a cussing match. But judging by most of your posts,
> ("You dude, DT rulzzz!) I'm pretty pessimistic....
listen to some hopeful music then... =)
> Can't wait to hear from you.
>
> Mike Meridith
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:45:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew Sirois <ms014e@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: NIN with DT
Message-ID: <199510270645.CAA26275@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
that post comparing NIN with DT was a pretty shitty thing for me to
read when i have two (2) [II], yes two exams tomorrow. now, at 2:30am i
have to respond rather than study.
First: that was the best post i've ever read. I've often tried to
figure out how I can get so into the musical genious and skill of DT and the
feeling/soul of NIN and Tool at the same time.
Okay, where am I going with this? It's been on my mind for a long
Here goes:
I think that it is absolutely true that in some ways, bands like NIN
and Tool are better than DT. Somehow they carry and emotional aspect that
DT fails to carry. True, DT can be ridiculously emotional, but somehow
never to the intensity that Trent Reznor often reaches. Sometimes DT seems
hollow and pointless, as though the music doesn't express anything. I think
this is because DT are based more on thought/reflection than gut emotion.
There are times when I don't want to think. I want to feel. That's
when NIN is better than DT.
However, if I'm not feeling ridiculously intense at the time, then
NIN can seem like blatantly falsified emotional diarrhea created only for
the purpose of appealing to confused angry teenages who want to think that
they're really miserable and oppressed. Times like that I just need to kick
back with DT to some stable ass kicking riffs and overall reflective tunes.
I guess in conclusion, there's no way you're going to win your
arguement. But neither is your friend. You can't compare the two, they're
apples and oranges. Music shouldn't be compared like that, both artists are
decent in their own realm. Anyone who criticizes NIN because Trent Reznor
can't play some incredibly complex guitar, or write a song in some bizarre
time signature is being a fool. Listen to "I Do Not Want This" to see what
DT CAN'T do. Listen to Bombay Vindaloo to see what NIN CAN'T do. Respect
both.
Of course, you ahve to wonder if Trent is really that depressed, or if he's
just trying to sell records...
Somehow I suspect anyone truly that miserable would have already killed
himself.
Anyway...
Long live the Revolution! -matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:57:50 -0700
From: srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: *****IMPORTANT*****
Message-ID: <199510270657.XAA09282@wizard.qualcomm.com>
I don't think this is working!
Just state if you have dt content,
then all the people who don't want a little
variety can skip the stuff without dt content
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Tell MTV What you think!
Want more musical variety on MTV? Want more music on MTV? Miss Headbangers Ball?
email MTV on October 31st!
mtvmail@aol.com or mtvnews@mtv.com or feedback@mtv.com
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 23:57:52 -0700
From: srvrip@qualcomm.com (John Hough)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Heavy Bones (NO DT)
Message-ID: <199510270657.XAA09285@wizard.qualcomm.com>
Anyone heard of this band?
Gary Hoey is the guitarist and the
singer is the guy from Cats n Boots.
Anyone heard of those guys?
Anyways, the Heavy Bones CD is
really, REALLY, good! Great late '80's
early '90's hard rock. Anyone who wants
to know more, email me.
Later
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Tell MTV What you think!
Want more musical variety on MTV? Want more music on MTV? Miss Headbangers Ball?
email MTV on October 31st!
mtvmail@aol.com or mtvnews@mtv.com or feedback@mtv.com
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 17:13:53 (CDT)
From: Ryan J Benedict <rbenedic@gac.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Information Needed!!--Please Read
Message-ID: <199510262213.RAA09926@shadow.gac.edu>
Jammers,
This is short.
Anyone who can tell me about the bootleg CD "Mind Control" please e-mail
me personally--I have questions for you. I need a brief discription of it.
Thanks
Ryan Benedict
rbenedic@gac.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 02:05:31 -0700
From: coghlanm@ix.netcom.com (Michael Coghlan )
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Fwd: CDnow! Order
Message-ID: <199510270905.CAA18818@ix4.ix.netcom.com>
To the Y-jam:
Just thought I'd let you know about this. Can anyone tell where to
find this CD?
******************************************************************
Subject: CDnow! Order
Status: RO
Dear Michael,
An import that you ordered, DREAM THEATER/AWAKE + BONUS CD (JPN)
(CD),
is out of print or is no longer available, and we no longer think that
we can get it.
We're sorry we couldn't get it for you. Please get back to us if you
have any questions.
Thank you,
Matt Olim
CDnow! The Internet Music Store
molim@cdnow.com -or- manager@cdnow.com
telnet cdnow.com
http://cdnow.com
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1082
**************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:55:05 EST