YTSEJAM digest 1412

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Fri Apr 05 1996 - 18:05:01 EST

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 1414"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 1412

    Today's Topics:

      1) Ytse Sr. Citizen
     by "mmetzger" <mmetzger@bostech.com>
      2) Re: Geez...
     by Benjamin Brizzell <brizzb@Sage.EDU>
      3) Mail Item Format Warning
     by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/05/96 - 16:32:46" <response@ibmmail.com>
      4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1410
     by hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal)
      5) Re Sicko Bass Players
     by nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
      6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1411
     by babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
      7) Click tracks and Savatage
     by napkins@clandjop.com (Seth Hatlelid)
      8) Neil Gallop's Brain...or lack thereof
     by Andrew Bunk <ABUNK@wpo.it.luc.edu>
      9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1405
     by Marc Respass <marcr@tiac.net>
     10) Prog-Metal - No lyrics included
     by Mike Backof <mbacko1@umbc.edu>
     11) Re: Geez... (NDTC)
     by Suicyco <eyl7720@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
     12) Yes, I have a guess dammit.
     by Ben Laussade <laussade@enet.net>
     13) toast&brains
     by Mason Pokladnik <fmp8157@tam2000.tamu.edu>
     14) Norse BM
     by fitipmol@ibmmail.com
     15) elders
     by CLIFF & PAM WHEATON <cwheaton@micron.net>
     16) Montiors
     by SEEGED73@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
     17) Re: ART?
     by mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: 5 Apr 1996 09:57:49 U
    From: "mmetzger" <mmetzger@bostech.com>
    To: "YTSEJAM" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Ytse Sr. Citizen
    Message-ID: <n1383424274.10846@macsmtp>

    >> Someone asked who the younger jammers were. Then someone
    >> complained about all the young jammers. So, who is the oldest
    >> jammer on the list?

    It *has* to be that asshole from Oregon.
    Man, I've heard that that dude is ooooold.

    Hugh G. Rection

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:23:10 -0500 (EST)
    From: Benjamin Brizzell <brizzb@Sage.EDU>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: Geez...
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960405101642.6366B-100000@zeus>

    On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Lars Hellsten wrote:

    > > Last one I promise. GO OUT AND BUY "ROOTS" BY SEPULTURA! These guys
    > >get my vote for best metal album of '96! They have been listening to
    > ..
    > >style and barks/chants/raps ala Korn with aplomb. Support these
    > >extremely talented guys! They are touring for the next year and a
    > >half so be damn sure to go and see them. It's sure to be an
    > >incredible show! I hope they tour with Korn! Riots would commence at
    > >the end of every show!!!!!!!!!
    >
    > What a pile of bullshit. I used to think the people here had taste in music
    > (maybe they really did and there's just a lot of newbies on the list), and
    > that the reason we liked Dream Theater was that the music can be considered
    > "metal", but is extremely progressive and isn't at all like your typical
    > metal band.
    >
    > Now all of a sudden people on this list are talking about death metal
    > (please!), Korn (my brother has their CD - you call this MUSIC?!?
    > TALENTED?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAH! Excuse me, I just pissed myself...)
    >
    > Can we please go back to the OLD YtseJam?
    >
    Have you ever heard Dark Tranquility, At The Gates, or Death? This is
    all very technical death metal that I consider to be better music than DT.
    Does this mean that I have no taste in music, because it doesn't agree
    with yours? Open you mind...

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Ben Brizzell | "Flee the icy Lucifer. |
    | e-mail address: | Oh, he's an awful fellow! |
    | brizzb@sage.edu | What a mistake! |
    | Individual Studies | I didn't take a feather from his pillow." |
    | Sage Junior College | - JETHRO TULL |
    | of Albany | "A Passion Play" |
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Check out my band, ANACHRONISM's, new home page at |
    | http://fire.camp.clarkson.edu/~rappazmc/pump.html |
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 10:31:27 EST
    From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/05/96 - 16:32:46" <response@ibmmail.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
    Message-ID: <199604051531.HAA20293@mindcrime.ax.com>

    The mail item that you sent at 15:31:20 GMT on 05 Apr 1996 has been delivered.

    However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
    format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
    Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:40:01 -0800
    From: hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1410
    Message-ID: <199604051540.HAA03853@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>

    Cory wrote:

    > by swanson@henge.com (Sheila Swanson)
    > So, who is the oldest jammer on the list?

    I am - after all, I'm fucking ANCIENT!

    Somebody else wrote:
    >Does anyone know the results of Wrestlemania XII?

    Yea, I do, the results are that it sucked, just like all that other
    phony Wrestling shit that people spend good money on. (IMHO)

    And another somebody wrote:
    >from the latest _zia zine_ (an arizona record store):
    >
    > blind melon has found a new vocalist: sebastian bachm formerly of
    >skid row. in related melon news, a final album featuring deadguy
    >shannon hoon is to be released later this year. it includes tracks
    >recorded shortly before the singer's untimely death--not from drugs
    >and alcohol, as previous reports indicated, but from asphyxiation
    >resulting from looping a necktie over a joist in the tour bus, and
    >hanging himself while masturbating--as well as "hotel" tapes made by
    >hoon during the band's tour. in addition, a bootleg video of hoon and
    >other band members is reportedly circulating amoung tape trading
    >circles: it depicts the melon guys taking turns hanging with the
    >necktie while whacking off.
    >
    Was this by any chance written by Sloof Lirpa? NO WAY would Sebastian
    Bach join those lamers!

    >as for some real dt content, the big station here in the phoenix area,
    >kupd (97.9), played perfect strangers about 45 minutes ago.
    >
    Cool! I still think that "Perfect Strangers" should have been released
    as a single. It rocks! (Is it too late???)

    Larry

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 17:50:33 +0200
    From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Cc: nga@server3.software-ag.de
    Subject: Re Sicko Bass Players
    Message-ID: <9604051550.AA00247@sundoc13.software-ag.de>

    Hi all (again, 2nd time for today)

    Christopher Merlo wrote "Why are all the sickos bass players?". Well don't
    forget the daddy of 'em all: Sid Vicious (the Sex Pistols are still one of the
    best live bands I ever saw - I caught them by chance in Bristol England in 76
    when they were touring under the pseudomyn SPOT <Sex Pistols On Tour>). Enough
    wierd punctuation in that sentence, folks?

    Hmm, that gives me an idea for my couch potato viewing for this evening: The
    Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle (with the Sex Pistols) followed by Fritz The Cat
    (they just happen to be on the same video). Anybody else out there like The
    Clash? Nostalgia just ain't what is used to be. The second bottle of champagne
    seems to be working, unlike my fingers. Considering it's Good Friday, perhaps I
    could also watch The Life Of Brian tonight. Still, always look on the bright
    side of life (quick quote): Damon Hill (not Fibraio) will give Michael
    Schumacher another good stuffing in the Argentinian Grand Prix on Sunday. Final
    score: Williams-Renault 3 Ferrari 0.

    Drink and work just don't mix (a bit like marriage and sex I suppose). Anyone
    else out there going/already deaf? Seriously, my ENT specialist told me on
    Thursday that I can expect to have a hearing aid within the next 4-5 years. I
    can hardly hear anything about 7 MHz on my right ear, and the limit is not much
    higher on the left. Might as well enjoy loud music while I can. Damon, we could
    go to concerts together: I'll tell you what the light show was like, and you can
    tell me what the band played.

    nuff said for today

    stay safe and happy listening
    Neil Gallop
    (nga@software-ag.de)

    Currently playing: Lake of Tears - Headstones

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 11:27:11 -0500 (EST)
    From: babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1411
    Message-ID: <v01510100ad8ab397650b@[137.238.26.12]>

    >Can we please go back to the OLD YtseJam?

    Yes. As Dorothy said (clicking her heels) - "There's no place like home.
    There's no place like home."

    -BABS

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:29:10 -0600
    From: napkins@clandjop.com (Seth Hatlelid)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Click tracks and Savatage
    Message-ID: <v01510100ad8af84ed6ce@[204.71.98.32]>

    Hiya,
            This is to answer the question about the click track. A click
    track is simply a track that clicks out the tempo like a metronome so that
    the tempo of the song remains constant, or at least the section of the song
    to be played at that tempo.

    Next:
            I recently purchased Savatage's Dead Winter Dead at a suggestion
    from the 'jam. I LOVE IT!! Great stuff. I want to get some more of their
    stuff but I'm kind of worried about anything older than Edge of Thorns.
    I've heard Jon Oliva "sing" on "I Am" and "Doesn't Matter Anyway". Let me
    just say that Jon Oliva is to Zackary Stevens what Charles Dominici is To
    Kevin James LaBrie. Zack's voice is sooooooo much more palatable, at times
    he sounds very much like Michael Crawford of "Phantom of the Opera" fame
    while Jon sounds like he's garggling with razor blades and trying to do bad
    slayer covers. And people seem to think that Zack is inferior to Jon!!!!
    WHY?
            The question I'm getting to is: is any Savatage with Jon at the
    helm worth the $15. The vocalist is pretty important to me, that's one of
    my major complaint's with I Mother Earth. Anybody have any thoughts?

    DTC!!!! I know that John P gives guitar lessons (I bet he charges through
    the nose), but does John Myung teach? I'm a bass player and would love to
    learn from the 'silent man'.

    Cheers!

    napkins@clandjop.com
    Seth Hatlelid

    "This is true love. Do you think this happens everyday? Death can stop
    true love, only delay it for a while."-The Princess Bride

    "As you wish."

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 11:00:47 -0600
    From: Andrew Bunk <ABUNK@wpo.it.luc.edu>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Neil Gallop's Brain...or lack thereof
    Message-ID: <s164fd6f.089@wpo.it.luc.edu>

    Well, I tried to get rid of these jams, but they just keep comin', so I read
    'em when I've got absolutely nothing else to do here at work. First off, I'd
    like to say that I try to not insult people when they display a substantial
    amount of musical ignorance, but there are exceptions that simply have
    to be made. Case in point, one Neil Gallop. I'll try to be nice. Well, poor Neil
    seems to think Jon Anderson puts lyrics together just because of how
    they sound. (How someone can say this while listening to the sonic
    manure known as the Smashing Pumpkins is still beyond my human
    comprehension.) If poor Neil had any kind of culture, he'd know that
    Tales From Topographic Oceans was based on Jon's strong eastern
    religious beliefs, and part on certain folklore, I believe. If there were no
    Yes, Neil, you would have no Dream Theater; at least, not the way they
    are now. They were the first prog band to perfect the configuration that
    DT uses. Barring country, rap, and dance music, (and some
    bottom-of-the-barrel alternative bands), I have just about any kind of
    music on my CD rack that you could imagine. Saga. John Tesh. Slayer.
    Alice In Chains. Seal. Edvard Grieg. Etc. So it really burns me when
    people don't think before they speak (or write). I'm not an old fogey
    bitching about how people should respect the elder prog bands. I'm only
    21, and most of the pioneering prog-rock came out while I was still a
    sparkle in my daddy's eye. Next time you think you need to say
    something negative about a band, use that brain (where applicable) to
    think of something else good to say about a band you do like. Because
    the simple truth of the matter is, NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT
    YOU DON'T LIKE. If you need some attention, get a dog. If you're nice to
    it, maybe it will lick you. That is all.

    BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE FOUNDATION TO END MUSICAL IGNORANCE

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:40:08 -0500
    From: Marc Respass <marcr@tiac.net>
    To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1405
    Message-ID: <199604051740.MAA06903@mailserver1.tiac.net>

    > But this is only true for music which is art: and, in my
    > opinion, only classical music is art: so, a classical
    > musician and mainly a classical composer are artists: the
    > others are not. (So, DT's music is not a form of art... do
    > you agree?)

    I would have to give that a big NO! My goodness. Only western classical
    music is art now?

    ----------
    > HELL I Could record The sounds my ASS makes when I take a
    > Dump and Call it Music. Then i too would be a musician...

    Except that you'd be wrong. I could make a chair and call it a table.
    Would it be a table? No.

    --Marc Respass (marcr@tiac.net)
      Come visit the Joel Rivard Group home page at
      http://www.tiac.net/users/marcr/
      [ we like to thing our music is art anyway ]

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 12:54:45 -0800
    From: Mike Backof <mbacko1@umbc.edu>
    To: Ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Prog-Metal - No lyrics included
    Message-ID: <31658895.24D2@umbc.edu>

    Hello Jammers,

    Someone asked about prog-metal bands with no lyrics. Generally the prog
    bands without lyrics are going to be towards the jazz/fusion end of the
    genre, there are a few bands that might appeal to jammers.

    Fourth Estate - "See What I See" This band is an all instrumental
    combination of Kings X and the Steve Morse Band/ Dixie Dregs. They are a
    trio, incredible musicianship all around, no lyrics included. See my
    Unsigned Bands page for information on ordering. (URL is in my .sig)

    Boud Deun - "Fiction and Several Days" Another all instrumental band
    similar to Mahavishnu Orchestra/ John McLaughlin with a bit of funk bass
    thrown in on top. Instrumentally they are violin, bass, guitar, drums.
    Lots of killer instrumental work, fast and furious, I've seen them live
    five times and talked to the band members on numerous occations (at other
    concerts, etc..) they play music from any genre and can mix it together,
    (sorta like Phish does, except at a higher speed). They've played Heart
    of the Sunrise by Yes, some AC/DC, and they jam frequently live. They
    have a listing on my Unsigned Bands page, or you can e-mail
    bouddeun@aol.com to find out an address to send the money and Shawn will
    get you a CD in the mail.

    Djam Karat - "Burning the Hard City", "Reflections From the Firepool"
    This all instrumental band from California mixed multiple guitar
    soloists, drums, bass / keyboardist and their music on both of these CDs
    goes from solo into solo, building and recessing, really great stuff.
    Genesisman@aol.com <Sights and Sounds> can get you their CDs.

    Ozric Tentacles - "Erpland", "Live Underslunky", "Arborescence"
    Another mostly instrumental band (they have voices on a couple of tunes)
    they mix metal/rock with psychedelic effects and furious bass playing.
    "Live Underslunky" is their heaviest album and IMO one of their best,
    "Erpland" is their best studio effort. "Arborescence" is also a good
    studio album, and it is the only one of the three you can get
    domestically in the USA, Columbia House even carries it for those who
    don't want to spend a lot of money, and check out this band.

    Later,

    Mike

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Michael Backof mbacko1@umbc.edu http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1
    WWW Pages - Unsigned Bands: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/munsign.html
    WWW Pages - Inferno Page: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/inferno.html
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 14:14:24 -0500
    From: Suicyco <eyl7720@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Geez... (NDTC)
    Message-ID: <31657110.2354@garnet.acns.fsu.edu>

    If you hadn't figured out by now, a lot of people on this list
    like metal, thrash, whatever you want to call it. Everyone I have met on
    this list or likes DT is into metal or at one time was. Personally DT is
    the lightest group I listen to next to Diamond Head and Metallica.
    Granted Korn does suck, I saw them live, but Sepultura rules, especially
    live. Just because someone doesn't like, well, whatever type of music
    you like doesn't mean they deserved to be flammed.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:35:12 -0700
    From: Ben Laussade <laussade@enet.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Yes, I have a guess dammit.
    Message-ID: <199604051935.MAA00513@maple.enet.net>

    Yo.

    >Hey everybody... let's play a new game! let's play the
    >'guess-what-they're-playing-in-the-Awake-picture' game... any guesses?

    Caught in a Web. James is holding a tambourine.

    >Nor do I feel that someone who buys a set of drums and sits on a street
    >corner banging away, begging for spare change a musician. You must always
    >be learning. , always increasing your knowledge of the instrument, beyond
    >simply playing. The moment you say "I know enough, let's just play for the
    >rest of my life" you cease to be a true musician.

    I digress. I learn by playing. I sit and play and fool around, and I'll
    think up something new...that's learning, isn't it? I'll practice something
    until I get it down (or go hurt something because it's frustrating). After
    I'm drumming, I kind of judge how good that "session" was based on how much
    new stuff I pounded out.

    >But of course, this is only my opinion: I could be wrong.

    Yes, you are wrong. That is NOT your opinion.

    thisisasmiley

    >Currently playing: Smashing Pumpkins - Pisces Iscariot

    You want fries with that?

    >Now all of a sudden people on this list are talking about death metal
    >(please!), Korn (my brother has their CD - you call this MUSIC?!?
    >TALENTED?!?!? HAHAHAHAHAH! Excuse me, I just pissed myself...)
    >
    >Can we please go back to the OLD YtseJam?

    /me drags Lars out from under the rock he's used for a hiding spot for the
    last few months.
            First of all, that wasn't the first time death metal has been talked
    about on the Jam.
            Second of all, your post isn't going to change anyone's mind. Just
    says that you don't respect other people's opinions. And with the "You call
    this MUSIC?!?!" line.....let's not start that thread again. :-)

    >Can we please go back to the OLD YtseJam?
    >

    No. The Ytsejam is progressive. We constantly change. You cannot defeat us.

    thisisasmiley

      Toodles!

    Mr. Cool

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:41:07 -0600 (CST)
    From: Mason Pokladnik <fmp8157@tam2000.tamu.edu>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: toast&brains
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.92.960405133929.10317A-100000@tam2000.tamu.edu>

    well My high school history teacher once gave us a recipe book they made
    in the 40's during WWII. It included all sorts of interesting recipes
    including one for "creamed brains on toast."

    ------------------------------------
    -Mason Pokladnik -
    -fmp8157@tam2000.tamu.edu -
    -http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~fmp8157-
    ------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 15:36:44 EST
    From: fitipmol@ibmmail.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Norse BM
    Message-ID: <199604052036.MAA26133@mindcrime.ax.com>

    --- Saapunut 03.MAPE 90-4694432 05-04-96 23.38
      -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET IBM IMX

    Hello all.

    With all the questions and unbelievable stories about Norwegian
    black metal going around, I think I'll mix my spoon to this soup
    also. For the ones who asked how is the music in general, the
    answer is that it's mostly just mindless rant and rave. Nothing
    more. There are EXCEPTIONS tho'. For the sake of telling some
    rad story of the movement (these seem to be the ones ppl like
    to hear) I can tell that the guy who is a band called BURZUM
    serves 22 years in the penitentiary of Trondheim for murder
    one. He killed the bassist of another black metal band (with
    his bare fists) because the guy attempted to kill him first.
    Oh man. There's absolutely nothing to look up on in these
    morons. If you're gonna buy CDs because they're rad, get a grip.

    One of these exceptions is the band ULVER. Btw. that's wolves in
    English. I just purchased two of their albums and they are able
    to show that there can be more to black metal than just bashing
    away. Their album BERGTATT should give a major kick to the ones
    who dig old Metallica. There's some really innovative ideas in
    the music and the CD creates the atmosphere of the wild Norse
    nature; you feel like enjoying the Norwegian Lappland's silent
    darkness in the darkest of winters and the next thing you know
    you're being kicked in the butt.

    The second album I bought is Kveldssanger (Night Songs, if I get
    my Norwegian right). Now everyone who likes atmospheric music,
    be sure to get this one. Imagine the feeling you get when you
    sit on a high cliff, looking down to a frozen lake, everything
    so peaceful, so solemn and you, so lonely. The sun is setting
    and you get the feeling that for once in your lifetime you are
    one with the barren nature of the north. That's the feeling I
    get listening this disc. It's all acoustic, almost no lyrics
    at all and it has to be the most beautiful thing I've heard in
    a long, long time.

    So if anyone of you is going to buy an album of the black metal
    genre, just be sure it's from Ulver. The rest I've heard is
    shit.

    _Mape_

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 13:42 MST
    From: CLIFF & PAM WHEATON <cwheaton@micron.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: elders
    Message-ID: <m0u5IKe-000QX5C@mis01.micron.net>

    >Someone asked who the younger jammers were. Then someone complained about
    >all the young jammers. So, who is the oldest jammer on the list?
       I'm 34. anyone else care to jump in on this?
    >And YKYARDTF(tm)
       Hey Zach-I think I started that one- but I don't care-it's fun to play with.
    DTC: my current favorite song: Voices.
    yes folks, I finally found Mike Bahr's page-and the info about his different
    CD's-so I won't be asking stupid questions on the 'jam again. Nice, huh?
    (sarcasm)
    c-ya!!
    Have a happy Easter!!
    Keep Rockin'
    Pam
     

        ___/----^--\____
     < /__rockin' cabbie_\o
           0 0
       TAKING THE ROAD TO ADVENTURE
       (Pam) cwheaton@micron.net
    (http:/netnow.micron.net/~cwheaton)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 14:56:35 -0600 (CST)
    From: SEEGED73@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Montiors
    Message-ID: <01I36PVZ8CI0003L6R@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU>

    Date sent: 5-APR-1996 14:50:21

    Ernie posted raising some questions about recording. Yes, the things on
    the floor are monitors. However, I can almost guarantee that that photo
    was for show and they weren't recording at the time it was taken. If you
    notice, everyone appears to be in the same room. You wouldn't want that.
    You'd get too much bleedthrough among tracks, which would make mixdown
    hell. I believe "click track" was already defined. It's MIDI-generated,
    and would come from an external source unless the board would have a
    built-in metronome. We don't know if they were recording to a click track.
    We weren't there.

    ________________________________________________________________________________
    Debbie Seeger
    University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh
    seeged73@vaxa.cis.uwosh.edu
    Music Major (Recording Technology Emphasis)

    "People are kind of like rubber band balls. You take off one layer and you
    have another one to take off until you hit some rotten rubber band and
    decide it's not worth taking the bands off."
                                    -Billie Jo Brom
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    ------------------------------

    Date: Fri, 05 Apr 96 15:54:58 PST
    From: mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: ART?
    Message-ID: <9603058287.AA828745038@CCGATE.HAC.COM>

        I should probably let this thread die a well deserved death, but...

    >>But this is only true for music which is art: and, in my opinion, only
    >classical
    >>music is art: so, a classical musician and mainly a classical composer are
    >>artists: the others are not.
        I thought only progressive musicians were allowed to be pretentious? <G>

    >Art is very difficult to define, but I don't think that something beautiful,
    >elaborated, original, intelligent, must be necessarily defined art.
        Why not? Why must everybody place rules and restrictions on everything? Art
    and creativity are some of the things that elevate us above some kind of
    instinct driven hunter / gatherer. We "create" things for no other reason than
    to please ourselves (and hopefully others). Why should there be any limit to
    what one individual perceives as "art"? The perception of what is and what is
    not art is as individualistic as you can get.

    >An artist, to produce a work of art, must have a great knowledge of art
    >history, and must be able to understand and reproduce the art of the past. Then
    >he can move one step forward, being original but at the same time bearing in
    >mind the rules of what he's doing, maybe partially breaking some of them.
        I fail to see the logic in this statement. I am sure that there are plenty
    of people that many would call artists, who can not reproduce the work of their
    peers and are probably not inclined to do so. Sure most artists start out with
    an appreciation for their chosen art, but the strive for creativity will push
    them to create from within themselves and not merely become proficient at
    copying the works of others. Knowledge of what other artists do and why they do
    it can be very helpful, but it is definately not a requirement.

    >The point is, I think rock music partially had classical music as an influence,
    >but I refuse to call it art. It's a popular form of music that is done for
    >easy pleasure, not as an artistic purpouse.
        I think somebody like Frank Zappa would have you for lunch over a blanket
    statement like that. <G> Who says that a rock band can't make music purely for
    artistic purposes? And who says that a classical composer won't just do it for
    the money? I think that any style of music is an art form, each individual
    will then perceive some of it as art and some as noise...

    >Progressive rock originates from rock. Of course, it is much more closer to
    >art then others genres.
        How much closer? So does that mean that really progressive jazz/fusion is
    EVEN closer?

    >But it belongs to another field, and it is completely separated from modern
    >classical music.
        Not completely separated, but merely presented in a different style.
    Some would even argue that progressive artists of the 70s WERE the modern
    classical composers...

    >But don't get me wrong: it's just a matter of definition. I don't listen to
    >modern classical music, while I love DT. I also listen to easier music, for
    >example Pearl Jam, because I like it. But they aren't art.
        I never did understand this wanting to label things hard/easy... What the
    hell is "easy listening" music? Music that won't ask you to solve word
    problems? <G> BTW, I like Pearl Jam too, but I DO consider them artists...

         Well, I think that is enough rambling on this subject.... 8^)
    /~~~~~~~ Michael Kizer -- Computer Sciences Corporation (Tucson, AZ) ~~~~~~~\
    \ Email: mrkizer@ccgate.hac.com (preferred) -or- mkizer@indirect.com /
    / WWW: http://www.indirect.com/www/mkizer \
    \ ^---> Check here for the Dream Theater Song Book... /
    / "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose." - Rush (The Band!) \
    \______________________________________________________________________________/

         
         

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    End of YTSEJAM Digest 1412
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