YTSEJAM Digest 1473
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1471
by subtlerage@gnn.com (Andrew Miller)
2) Re: It's been a long time/JPM100/Problem at school!
by Stephen Bajzek <MadMax+@CMU.EDU>
3) Re: EVE
by Bigman <martinah@csd.uwm.edu>
4) Mail Item Format Warning
by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/24/96 - 06:39:16" <response@ibmmail.com>
5) ELP, Sub. CDs
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
6) "Sex" Music
by Neil.D.Evans@Dartmouth.EDU (Neil D. Evans)
7) 2nd Tape Tree
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
8) Mallternative stuff
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
9) Unsubscribing soon. :(
by Elliott Kim <ekim01@fiu.edu>
10) Fun Facts about my CDs.
by Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com>
11) dreamt.org / DT film-music
by Bernd Basmer <basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1468
by "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
13) HOW TO GET DT #1!! (the easy way....) *GRIN*
by te95mne@student.hgs.se (MIKA NUMMINEN)
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1470
by babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
15) Prog vs. Alternative (A historical perspective)
by Jamie Burks <jburks@mgate.lotus.com>
16) FlameFest
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
17) YTSEJAM digest 1472
by "Steven Johnson" <svjohnson@amoco.com>
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 00:07:05
From: subtlerage@gnn.com (Andrew Miller)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1471
Message-ID: <199604240504.BAA01687@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com>
ok, now it's my turn.......
> It's true...99% of the Alternative music out there is crap...
>Im srtugling with whether or not thats actually opinion!!!
> I was listening to Bush the other day, and 3/4 of the guitars
>were out of tune....I don't think a guitarist would knock his guitar a
>few semitones out of tune to sound good.....It's like breaking the
i agree. i wholeheartedly agree. but remember something; the people that
listen to Bush and other similar bands aren't being forced into it. they
listen to it because they like it. don't blame the bands for being bad.
it's what the people want. they're simply providing a service.
i blame the people who listen to crappy music for the existence of crappy
music. there isn't much i like that's played on the radio anymore. and
i'm not talking strictly about grunge/alternative/whatever. pop music is
so generic it sounds like it came right off the factory line. it's the
same sounding studio musicians, the same precision-perfect production,
coupled with a singer who's almost too good to be true (often is) that
couldn't write a note of music if his/her life depended on it. i _think_
country tends to be the same, except in their case it's just a matter of
redundancy.
i know there's probably people on the list that like country <<gasp>> and
pop <<gasp>> and alternative/grunge/whatever <<gasp>>. to be honest, i
feel sorry for people that simply accept what the music industry and mtv
throws out at them. that's why i'm so pissed to see Echolyn dissolve.
talk about integrity... but until the public opens their ears a little
more and shuts their eyes from the onslaught of over-manufactured music,
nothing's gonna change.
seeya
Andrew
====================================================
Andrew Miller - SubtleRage (progressive rock)
- Interum (new age/prog instrumental)
SubtleRage@gnn.com -or- millera@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage/index.html
====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 01:09:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Bajzek <MadMax+@CMU.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: It's been a long time/JPM100/Problem at school!
Message-ID: <YlTPS5q00iVEIMbYgr@andrew.cmu.edu>
Excerpts from mail.ytsejam: 23-Apr-96 It's been a long time/JPM10.. by
Rob Leifer@haven.ios.com
> Another reason why I just decided to post today was because these two kids
> in school said something about DT today that go me so mad -- I almost
> killed them! Me and a friend have been going around the school with a
> diskman, trying to get people who we think would be in to DT, to listen to
> them and just give them a chance. I sat with two of my friends today and
> told them to listen. One kid who is the most stubborn person on the face
> of the planet then said to me "Get that crap away from me. I don't want to
> listen to your MAINSTREEM MUSIC crap!"
> Then the other kid replied "Shut up -- DT isn't Mainstreem, they're GLAM
> ROCK -- like Kiss!" I got so pissed off from these statements that I
> really felt like I was going to hit them! It just pisses me off that
> people could be so judgemental about something that they no shit about! I
> took a deep breath and just walked away.
I can relate. One time a friend of mine was playing fates Warning's
Inside Out across the hall. I was sitting at my computer, getting into
it, when I hear some dweeb walk into my friend's room and say "is this
Poison?"
patience. some day these people will be dead.
-Max
Anton Max
Keyboards, Aepithex
MadMax+@cmu.edu
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 00:26:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Bigman <martinah@csd.uwm.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: EVE
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960424002056.23232B@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 23:26:20 EDT
> From: "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
> Subject: EVE
>
> Am I the only one who thinks that EVE should be used in a love scene for a
> movie? Here's that questions reworded. If you use music when you have sex or
> make love, whatever the case may be, would you put EVE on that tape. I know I
> would. Sounds like that kind of song to me.
Definitely. That and Pipe by Gary Hoey. Right Rip? :^)
Later from Toyland
Bigman
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 01:38:18 EDT
From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/24/96 - 06:39:16" <response@ibmmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
Message-ID: <199604240538.WAA06696@mindcrime.ax.com>
The mail item that you sent at 05:37:24 GMT on 24 Apr 1996 has been delivered.
However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 22:38:33 PDT
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ELP, Sub. CDs
Message-ID: <9604240538.AA12830@tengs1>
> From: Mike Backof <mbacko1@umbc.edu>
> Subject: Summer Tours
>
> Hello Jammers,
>
> Other cool summer tours:
>
> Jethro Tull/ Emerson, Lake, Palmer (I'll go to see Tull, ELP really
> should hang it up IMO)
Hey! As far as making new music, I agree. But I saw them tour a few
years ago for the album before last (Black Moon? heh. that shows how
long it's been since that disc has seen the light of day) and they
were incredible! The amphitheater (Cal Expo) was only a third full,
too [bad], so we got really close to the stage.
> From: JamesArin@aol.com
> Subject: CD dubs of Mike Bahr's SUBCONSCIOUS
YKYADTF if you already have _Subconscious_ and you get this disc, too.
crap, I'm still four 'jams behind.
Zaque
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Date: 24 Apr 96 01:54:18 EDT
From: Neil.D.Evans@Dartmouth.EDU (Neil D. Evans)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: "Sex" Music
Message-ID: <28257422@dancer.Dartmouth.EDU>
No DTCT!! Beware...
Someone mentioned something about whether EVE would be a cool song to make love
to.. =) I just HAD to throw my opinion into the fray on this one.. On
authority from my girlfriend, the Braveheart soundtrack is the best music to
make love to.. Just thought I'd share that with all of the ytse-romeos and
ytse-romets.. ACOS is pretty sweet too =P...
-Neil.
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 22:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 2nd Tape Tree
Message-ID: <199604240557.AA10910@crl12.crl.com>
Yea, I'm really looking forward to the second tape tree from the
inestimable Brian Cox.......but before that, I'm kinda hoping he
gets around to sending me that copy of the Rudess/Morgenstein
show I sent tapes + mailer for.....back in January. :)
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman vanyel@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~vanyel ---+ | Rush * Robert Jordan * Bonedance * Michael Moorcock * Metallica | | James P. Hogan * Dream Theater * Robert Heinlein * NIN * Dead | | Can Dance * Mercedes Lackey * Mutha's Day Out * Raymond Feist....|------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:25:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mallternative stuff Message-ID: <199604240625.AA11223@crl12.crl.com>
Okay, I'll wade in... :)
"99% of all alternative bands are crap." Nahhh, wishful thinking, but not true. Sure, most radio-friendly mallternative bands aren't quite as talented as DT or other prog bands, but then again, who is? There's some -true- crap out there getting undeserved attention -- Hole and Rancid come to mind -- but quite a few popular bands have SOME talent, and some of them have a lot (AiC, Soundgarden, RHCP, even Pearl Jam). I tend to like all sorts of music, and especially stuff that is wel-composed and different (Ozrics, Dead Can Dance, DT, etc.)
BTW, very few mallternative bands play arenas. Heck, Everclear (who are okay, IMO) just played here for a $12,000 guarantee, proffered by Atlanta's biggest concert promoter. The show was moved from a 5,000-seat venue to a smaller one for lack of ticket sales. The final tally? Fewer than 400 tickets sold. Now THAT's a soakin'. Why so few? I think because Everclear only has one radio single, AFAIK.
Someone mentioned 'the times, they are a-changin'. Well, it might be a little premature to say that 'alternative' is out and prog is making a comeback, but lately I've noticed an encouraging sign: Even my mallternative friends are starting to say things like "Well, this sounds okay, but it sounds just like _________" (insert older alternative band here). This is usually an early sign that a musical 'scene' is about to die; when the kidz start thinking it's getting too samey-samey, the fat lady can be heard tuning up in the wings.
As for metal, alas, it's currently a dead horse in the music 'biz.' It won't stay that way forever, but right now labels are distancing themselves from metal as fast as ever they can. Relativity dropped all their rock/metal artists including the incomparable Joe Satriani, and at least two major labels have either dissolved or MAJORLY cut back their metal A&R departments. All eyes will turn to the charts in early June to see how the new Metallica album LOAD fares.
What's the next Big Thing? Probably not prog-metal, alas and damnit. A rock/metal/hip-hop hybrid sound, I think...... Just IMHO.
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman vanyel@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~vanyel ---+ | Rush * Robert Jordan * Bonedance * Michael Moorcock * Metallica | | James P. Hogan * Dream Theater * Robert Heinlein * NIN * Dead | | Can Dance * Mercedes Lackey * Mutha's Day Out * Raymond Feist....|
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 03:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Elliott Kim <ekim01@fiu.edu> To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Unsubscribing soon. :( Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960424025035.14284F-100000@serss1>
Hey folx.
I will be unsubscribing by the end of the week. I'm fucking fed up with this crap! ;)
No, really. FIU is cracking down on us deadbeat students who have hung on to their e-mail accounts while not registering for classes. So I will be unsubscribing until I figure out how non-college-students get on the net without resorting to AOL, Prodigy, etc...
This also means I might not be returning to #ytsejam on irc.dreamt.org 2112. Oh well. It's probably better. I was becoming a "fixture."
So, provided I get back on the Jam, that would mean I've been on here from three different addresses... milkman@wam.umd.edu, ekim01@fiu.edu and me@whoever.will.give.me.net.access.com. I doubt it's a record.. I doubt it's even worthy of any notice... But oh well. I'm gonna go through "Jam withdrawl" so I'll probably get my ass in gear and be back real soon.
See ya,
--=The Cliff's Notes Version of my .signature file=-- Elliott Kim [Insert ASCII doodle here] Florida International University ekim01@fiu.edu E-Man@dreamt.org [Insert profound quote here]
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 00:39:46 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fun Facts about my CDs. Message-ID: <199604240739.AAA07915@bud.indirect.com>
For anyone who's interested... since the subject came up I figured it might be something people would like to know about.
FUN FACTS ABOUT MIKE BAHR'S CDs ================================
The last Critical Mass CD will be the 5000th CD. Believe it! That's why I get to do Precious Things (assuming everything goes well at the CD company). You see, if you press 5000 with them, they allow you to do a special run of 100 of anything you like at regular price, instead of enforcing the 500-CD minimum. I'm negotiating now to see if I can redeem it as an order of 200 discs for PT. Subconscious - 500 sold out Cygnus - 1000 sold out, more or less. I do have a handful now since they finally shipped the final box to me. Acoustic Dreams - 500 sold out. WDATU - 1000 .. about 750 sold, about 850 reserved/spoken for. Antiquities - 500, about 300 sold, about 460 reserved/spoken for. Scenes From A Memory - coming soon. 500. still available. Critical MAss - 1st printing is 500+500 (2CD set). open to preorder.
I got the artwork proofs for Scenes From A Memory back from the printshop today and approved it to go, they're just waiting for me to finish the manufacturing end of things now. I really hope you all like the result of Scenes' art. It's a radical departure from what I've done so far, even more so than the parchment Antiquities liner was. I used a little artistic license and tried a few different ideas, and if you all like it, I'll keep pushing the envelope... if it turns out to be a dud, I guess I'll stay with what works and expand in that framework. If my damned scanner was working (cat problems) I could scan the cover and put it on the web site for all to see.
Other fun facts about MBCDs...
Number of bounced checks so far 2 Number of defective CDs so far, total 7 (all my CDs are 100% guaranteed to play correctly or I replace them for free.) Number of CDs given to the band and their friends, total 30+ Percentage chance I'll go to the Ytsecon 3 and bring more CDs 75% Over/under since production began +$1,220 I used that to pay the remainder of my Student Loan Therefore I can spend more time on the production of CDs Taxes I paid on all that ~$250 CDs so far lost in the mail ~35 CDs so far seized by foreign customs and not returned/delivered ~40 Arrests, lifetime, Bahr, Michael P. 1 However that incident was Unrelated :)
Take care everyone! I can't wait till Scenes is finished, because if you thought Antiquities was a good CD (and sales figures seem to indicate this to be true...) (grin)...
MTFBWY! Mike Bahr, durnik@indirect.com/mikebahr@dreamt.org
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 11:22:08 +0200 From: Bernd Basmer <basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: dreamt.org / DT film-music Message-ID: <9604240922.AA05842@krzsun.med-rz.uni-sb.de>
Hi jammers!
I just wanted to tell you, that I'm now among the privileged persons who have a dreamt.org account. :)
It's superior@dreamt.org
What else. :)
Wouldn't it be great, if DT would write some nice, tasty music for a BIG film? I think that would kick! Imagine Terminator II starting with The mirror... :) At least I think this could really bring them a big step forward because the music would be heard by many people who have never heard about them...
Just a thought...
HEY! DTC! :)
Bye.
Bernd.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | Bernd Basmer | | _V_ | Zentrum fuer Informations- und | | <*,*> | Kommunikationstechnik | | [( )] | 66424 Homburg/Saar | | -"-"- | | | punk owl | Tel.: 06841/162166 | | | Fax : 06841/930026 | | | Email: basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 5:42:46 EDT From: "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1468 Message-ID: <9604240942.AA12751@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
I have followed your Awake list so far about the guy and switching LSOAD and CIA and stuff like that, but where does Innocence Faded fit into the story? Maybe I missed something?
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 10:19:27 +0200 From: te95mne@student.hgs.se (MIKA NUMMINEN) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: HOW TO GET DT #1!! (the easy way....) *GRIN* Message-ID: <199604241021.MAA07404@adeptus.student.hgs.se>
Hmmmmm, been following the new bursts of alternative(=mainstream IMHO) vs. DT(=alternative IMHO). Maybe we should start another flood of letters/mail/phonecalls/mailbombs to the band management (the ACOS stuff again) except this time, we convince them to exchange JP Ibanez to a noname acoustic that never stays in tune and run it thru a crappy amp with distortion, exchange John Myung's sixstring into a two string and tell him not two play anything else than straigh ahead 4/4 followthedrumsinsomewaywhilemissingthebeatallthetimestuff, and let reinvent the beat up Ludwigdrums, with congas and stuff.... and finally dress them up in flannell and put those ridiculous socks on their heads and stuff, + write 2 and a half min pop/punk/alternative tunes......
JUST A THOUGHT.... *grin*
Mika
The Swedish VIking
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 08:25:36 -0500 (EST) From: babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1470 Message-ID: <v01510104ada395915bf5@[137.238.26.12]>
> >I'm going to be on the East Coast from mid-June until about August 30th.
Bafu where on the East Coast are you going to be?
-BABS
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 08:59:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Jamie Burks <jburks@mgate.lotus.com> To: YtseJam List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Prog vs. Alternative (A historical perspective) Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960424082452.1336B-100000@mgate>
I just picked up Kansas - Drastic Measures on CD, and theres a song on it called "Mainstream" that "Mirror"s (DTC! :) some of the discussion here on the 'jam lately about Prog. vs. Alternative, and also the small thread about Echolyn and StB. The lyrics follow.
Overkill, have you had your fill, Come to expect it. Off the wall, too short or too tall, System rejects it. Lost the handle, whats it all been for? Tired of trying, seeing so much more
<CHORUS>
It's so predictable and everybody judges by the numbers that you're selling Just crank 'em out on the assembly line and chart 'em higher Just keep it simple boys, it's gonna be alright as long as you're inside the Mainstream are we moving too far away Is it worth if it doesn't pay. The centerline is status quo, its Mainstream
It you stay within the tried and true You'll remain among the chosen few Survive another year
The market is dead, accounts in the red, Media saturation We're deep in a rut, the arteries cut, Sensory deprivation Really loved it, didn't earn a cent No one's buying your experiment
<Chorus>
For the masses in Consumerland Give 'em everything they demand Survive another year
Corporate mold, packaged and sold, 16 to 30 Jobbers and racks, they're movin' in stacks Tactics are dirty We're in business, what else is it for? Profit motive, welcome to the war
<Chorus>
Just be careful not to rearrange And don't let 'em catch you getting strange Survive another year
This was written in 1983, so you get the idea that the struggle between bands making the music that they want to make and what's currently selling has been going on for a while. I guess that this "struggle" has been going on ever since there has been music. There have always been innovators and those who uphold the status quo, and the tension between the two, and lets hope that there always will be. For without both sides music would quickly become very boring IMO.
Anyway, I thought that this was really appropriate to some of the current discussion.
Congrats to the new father on the 'jam!!! I found out that I am to become a first time father in Dec. Keep your fingers crossed everyone.
--------------------------------------------------- "....the voice of reason against the howling mob" "Nobodys Hero" - Rush jburks@mgate.lotus.com Jamie Burks ---------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 11:19:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: FlameFest Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960424110709.22232J-100000@bdmserver>
Ok, I do admit that I like some alternative bands. My opinion is that most of them aren't very good. That is my opinion. Merlo can cuss me out as much as he wants, but that is not going to change my opinion or cause me to think that merlo has intelligent posts.
Some people agree with my opinion on alternative bands and some don't. Hey, it livened the jam up a little. I do think merlo could have used a more tactful approach then to cuss me out for my opinion. I mean what do Green Day's dicks have to do with the debate?
And as for rrivera@moose.uvm.edu who thinks that cussing someone out for voicing an opinion is not juvenile, grow up. I used "cuss words" because I am not juvenile. I could have said Fuck but I chose not to. I can make a statement or couter argument with out cussing someone out.
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| |The Baltimore Orioles-The team to beat in 1996!!!!!!! | Go DC United! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: 24 Apr 1996 09:40:09 GMT From: "Steven Johnson" <svjohnson@amoco.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1472 Message-ID: <199604241516.AA13788@interlock.amoco.com>
*** Reply to note of 04/24/96 00:10 I'm sorry, Ernie, but please NEVER give ANY musical credit to Hootie and the Blowfish. Notice a lack of "IMHO." They suck...hook, line and sinker. No talent, open-chord irritants are what they produce. Pleasing to the ear as a Debbie Boone release. SCREW HOOTIE! I actually use this band as a barometer whether to respect people's musical opinions. If they like Hootie, I write off ANY knowledge they claim to have.
The popularity of this band comes down to the lowest common denomenator. Pizza Hut pizza is not good pizza, but wins "America's most loved" awards annually. Why? It's the only pizza some people ever have. Same goes for Hootie. Hell, I'd listen to Three Dog Night before Hootie.
Sorry about the adrenelin rush. LATER-
Steve
*************************************************************** "I'll be defending you on the charge of......MURDER ONE!?! Wow! Even if I lose, I'll be famous!!" - Lionel Hutz, attorney ***************************************************************
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1473 **************************
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