YTSEJAM digest 1497

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Sun Apr 28 1996 - 23:52:31 EDT

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 1496"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 1497

    Today's Topics:

      1) PMU as Rebellion?
     by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
      2) Mail Item Format Warning
     by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/29/96 - 01:47:36" <response@ibmmail.com>
      3) Notice to my friends and traders.
     by augie@unix.asb.com (Heath)
      4) copyright infringement
     by WarrenDW@aol.com
      5) Concept Albums
     by Ed Reed <ereed@comp.uark.edu>
      6) Good concept albums...
     by jgreene@acs.bu.edu
      7)
     by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
      8) Concert quality
     by WarrenDW@aol.com
      9) WFS Transcription and Some Questions
     by BigDTFan@aol.com
     10) 2-CDs, yes, mein froinds/various from the last 10 'jams
     by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
     11) Queensryche CD-Rom Bonus song!
     by Kevin Rios <krios@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
     12) Re: Ytse Jamming
     by "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
     13) Re: FLAMING, MAGNA CARTA
     by "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
     14) Re: Concept Albums
     by Michael Jones <felix@maui.netwave.net>
     15) 2CD for new album
     by Michael Backof <mbacko1@gl.umbc.edu>
     16) Re: DT Interactive
     by Michael Jones <felix@maui.netwave.net>
     17) DT Ripp offs!
     by kingfrog@prolog.net
     18) how to learn DT parts on keyboard, IMHO!!
     by Deebor@aol.com

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:42:31 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
    To: Ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: PMU as Rebellion?
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960428202334.22080A-100000@choplifter.rs.itd.umich.edu>

    Hate to break in on the little flame war here, but
    I have an opinion about why PMU got MTV/radio airpaly that I'd
    like to bounce off y'all...............(D-Man, you wanted discussion of
    the music, see if this fits the bill.)

    Remember the talk about rebellion, and how DT isn't?
    (Come on, it was only a week ago, never mind that it
    was ~30 Jams ago)? Well, PMU, at least the words
    most people can make out, could be construed as rebellion

    First, totally forget that the lyrics are based on Hamlet, because 80+% of
    us did not realize that until reading a DT FAQ...hell, I read Hamlet in
    class at the same time I was getting into DT/PMU, and still didn't pick
    up on it, and I went back later and found a couple of those lines
    highlighted in my book.....and if we didn't know, rest assured that
    the general public did not know either

    OK, then, in the context of last week, rebellion, etc.
    Lines like 1) "The Whole WOrld, spinning around me" might speak to the
    dysfunctional, who can't handle the life they find themselves in

    2) "Watch the Sparrow Falling..." yeah, because it got hit by one of
    those flying bullets

    3) "Pull Me under, I'm not afraid" sounds like a suicide plea
            as if, "death ain't a problem. compared to the shit I'm going
    through, it's less of a worry....."
            In fact, I used to think that suicide and death were the point of PMU
    (They ARE, but from a shakespeare point of view....I thought it was a DT
    point of view), and I was always trying to figure out how/why they
    juxtaposed a seemingly pro-death song on track 1 and then contradicted it
    with the anti-suicide Another Day on Track #2.....

    Anywho, that's my take on PMU's success (that, and that Napalm Death
    T-Shirt, of course).....people thought DT were another suicidal,
    angst-ridden band.....
                            Partha "Cynical F***" Mukhopadhyay

    p.s.: I really am hoping someone will convincingly contradict me.....

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:46:12 EDT
    From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/29/96 - 01:47:36" <response@ibmmail.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
    Message-ID: <199604290045.RAA19691@mindcrime.ax.com>

    The mail item that you sent at 00:46:08 GMT on 29 Apr 1996 has been delivered.

    However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
    format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
    Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:02:04 -0500
    From: augie@unix.asb.com (Heath)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Notice to my friends and traders.
    Message-ID: <v01510100ada9d130c4c7@DialupEudora>

    Around 2 weeks ago, my computer went down on me. When that happened, I
    lost everything that I had, including all of my E-Mail. Just now, I got my
    usage of E-Mail, but don't have any mail. I don't even have anyones E-Mail
    addresses anyone. So, if anyone has sent me anything lately and I haven't
    gotten back, please E-Mail me again. I'm sorry if anyone has tried to
    reach me and for the inconvience.

    Heath Augustover

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:21:15 -0400
    From: WarrenDW@aol.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: copyright infringement
    Message-ID: <960428212114_102374224@emout08.mail.aol.com>

    After lurking through the past 30 or so Jams I need to warn some of you
    (DAMON...BAFU....to mention a couple)"newbie" jammers that you guys are
    treading on dangerous turf. Why the hell do you guys think that you can get
    away with calling others on the jam "assholes"??????
    For your information asshole (tm) is a term _ I _ invented. I made up the
    word and what it means. If any of you fucking idiots want to use it then get
    my permission first.
    By the way Damon, you can either be a Fucking Idiot or an Asshole(tm)...you
    have earned the right to choose. :>)
    OK OK I know Bafu is not a newbie but accuracy is not important...right??

    Warren in Oregon.....owner of the asshole

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:34:44 -0500 (CDT)
    From: Ed Reed <ereed@comp.uark.edu>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Concept Albums
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960428203110.9359B-100000@comp.uark.edu>

    Ryan: Here's a couple concept albums missing from your list...

    Savatage -- Streets
    Savatage -- Dead Winter Dead
    W.A.S.P. -- The Crimson Idol

    I may be reaching a bit on these two, but see what you think...

    Boston -- Third Stage
    Queensryche -- Promised Land

    DrX -- aka Death

    /-------m----------------i--------------n---------------------------------\
    | You've come to see the doctor, cause I'll show you the cure. |
    | I'm gonna take away the questions, yeah I'm gonna make you sure. |
    I========Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime========d======================I
    | | ereed@comp.uark.edu |
    | I'm the new messiah, Death Angel with a gun. c drx@reich.uark.edu |
    | Dangerous in my silence, deadly to my cause. | ehr@engr.uark.edu |
    \---r------i--------------------------m------------------------------e----/

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
    From: jgreene@acs.bu.edu
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Good concept albums...
    Message-ID: <199604290132.VAA114398@acs5.bu.edu>

     Savatage: Streets
     Savatage: Dead Winter Dead
     Helloween: Keeper of the Seven Keys Pts. I & II (its a stretch to call them
                                                        concept albums)
     
     That's all I can think of...
     
     jeffrey g.
     

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:40:13 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Message-ID: <199604290140.VAA00613@kirk.ici.net>

    >While we wait for DT's new one (in October, right?), let's shoot the shit
    >about some concept albums, eh? Here are some of my favorites:
    >Queensryche's Operation:Mindcrime,
    >Iron Maiden's 7th Son of a 7th Son,
    >David Bowie's (ongoing) Nathan Adler Diarys, 1. Outside,
    >Yes' Tales from Topographic Oceans,
    >Voivod's Dimension Hatross, (I heard Nothingface is a concept CD also),
    >Steve Vai's Passion and Warfare (instrumental concept album!),
    >Fates Warning's Awaken the Guarian,
    >Rush's Farewell to Kings, 2112, Cygnus x-1, and Hemispheres.

    Blue Oyster Cult - "Imaginos"
    WASP - "The Crimson Idol"
    Savatage - "Streets" and "Dead Winter Dead"

    That's all I can find at the moment (in addition to some of the ones you named)

    -----------------------

    Pat Sullivan_________http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html________
    "The wide corridor up the center of E Block was floored with linoleum the
    color of tired old limes, and so what was called the Last Mile at other
    prisons was called the Green Mile (here) at Cold Mountain"
    ____________Stephen King - "The Green Mile part 1 - The Two Dead Girls"____

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:08:31 -0400
    From: WarrenDW@aol.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Concert quality
    Message-ID: <960428220830_385298179@emout14.mail.aol.com>

    OK...it has been a year or so since I started the thread about how loud and
    unbalanced DT was when they appeared here in Portland, Oregon.
    There were others who added to that with their reviews of concerts they went
    to.
    Bottom line was that they were way too fucking loud. Could not hear the keys,
    James' volume was inconsistant, Myung was not heard, JP was OK most of the
    time...Mike was loud and clear.
    I hope they get a new sound engineer before their next tour. The last one
    was at best, very inconsistant.
    Anyone that disagrees with me is....yep...an asshole(tm)

    Warren in Oregon

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:15:37 -0400
    From: BigDTFan@aol.com
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: WFS Transcription and Some Questions
    Message-ID: <960428221536_282900654@emout13.mail.aol.com>

    I know that WildKoba asked us a while back what we all thought of his WFS
    transcription, but I've been too lazy up until now to fetch it off the music
    stand. Now I have a few questions, and I hope some of you keyboard players
    and/or other recipients of Koba's transcription out there can gimme a few
    pointers. Please send your answers to me via private e-mail.

    Page 3, first system, 3rd measure - can you suggest a fingering for that
    big-ass Bmin7-type thingie?

    Page 7, 4th system, 1st measure - help with fingering again.

    Thanks in advance,

    Elliott Kim, BigDTFan@aol.com
    ------------------------------------------------
    The Yytsejammer Formerly Known As ekim01@fiu.edu
    Yes! I found a way to do .sigs on AOL! Mail me and I'll tell ya.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 19:24:58 PDT
    From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: 2-CDs, yes, mein froinds/various from the last 10 'jams
    Message-ID: <9604290224.AA12781@tengs1>

            Hello? McFly?? The petition is going to be sent *with* or
            *without* your support. So why not support it? The record
            company is a _business_. If they don't think it will profit
            them, the petitions will go to the shredder, no hard feelings.
            So far, any arguments "against" have been straw men. It's my
            theory that no one objected to the ACOS petition because
            _nobody thought it would work_. Am I getting warm here?
            (You think They will get pissed off and pull serveillance
            on Mike Bahr and hold him hostage until we pay the royalties
            on Prism Records CDs?) You think they did ACOS as a favor to
            us? I like the GNR-type bit. If Bafu can will a post to
            appear at the end of a 'jam (trying to do so by sheer volume
            doesn't work. Sorry, Bafu), then, collectively, this will
            work. The petition will be sent. Oh, yes, make no mistake...
    ________

    > Well sir, this part is NOT hard to play unless you are a complete piece of
    > shit. So may I come with a suggestion? LISTEN and UNDERSTAND their music
    > before you come along and present your wrong material. I've played the

    What is your major malfunction? Did Mommy and Daddy not give you enough
    attention as a child?

            The 7.62mm bullet tears through the drill sargent's body and
            exits through the bathroom wall while viscera follows it at
            subsonic velocities, spraying crimson and khaki on everything
            in its path.

            Luckily, Joker is wearing glasses.
    ________

    YT>Maybe it's just the Spin Doctors, or the Ytsejam digest's uncanny pattern
    YT>of its dialogues relating to nursery-namecalling so damn well. I dunno.

    YT>Bafu Vai

    YT>[extended .sig]
    ***IS IT ME OR ARE THESE JAMS GETTING TO LONG!?!?!?!

            Maybye, just maybye, I've had 63 crappy 'jams in a row,
            and, by God, I'm ready for a nice one! Oh, the fun's just
            beginning...
    ________

    GOD! ExCUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSE MEEE for trying to offer the jammers
    a GOOD DEAL when I see one. I'm sorry if you disagree, but I think
    most of us jammers see the list as more than just a list.but kind
    of an extended online family.....hence we try to help each other out...

    If you can't understand that, then do us all a favor and unsubscribe now,
    and go join alt.fan.newkids.on.the.block.!

    Peace and Love,

    Tim

            Tim deserves understanding. He is, after all, and entreprenuer,
            locating those cool DT demos for us to purchase, and all. He
            should be given honorary asbestos status, like Mike Bahr (who
            was flamed badly once, near the dawn of the 'jam long before
            he got famous (Charone, your slip is forgiven)). Of course,
            quoting an entire 'jam abrogates such status.

    _______
            Damon:
            
            Next time, GIVE IT A REST!!! (whoops, I forgot you're
            blind, not deaf). Keyboards and canes are where it's at.
            (I'm not laughing *at* you, I'm laughing *near* you.)
    ________

    I don't know if anyone has put this in
    yet, but three titles for the new album are:

    1 - Where Are You Now
    2 - Take Away My Pain
    3 - Raise The Knife

            *Whew* I'm glad you wrote back that those were working _song_
            titles. 1 sounds like a Damn Yankees ballad, or an Air Supply
            song title. 2 sounds too much like a Solitude Aeturnus song :>)>
    ________

    Well, I didn't mean to take up so much space with this. Sorry, guys. If
    anyone wants to flame me, take your best shot.

            Has anyone noticed that Charone and BABS were the only two
            women to post *anything* recently? Perhaps it's because
            women are incapable of getting hard-ons like the males around
            seem to get frequently (Debbie and her 'you're not a real
            musician unless you blah, blah, blah, blah...' opinions
            notwithstanding).

    Morten?

            Bueller?

    Go ahead...make my day :)

            I'd rather make your millenium !>)>
    ________

    From: SElli97635@aol.com
    Subject: Interesting Free Offer........

            How clueless can people be?! Stuff like this only pisses
            off people. Still, I wonder if anyone here actually tries
            it out. Maybye that's the reason it keeps coming back.
            Anyone going to admit to that??? (No, I'm not trying to
            cast the scent off myself; nor, am I using reverse cycology).
    ________

    Any of you ytsejam lifers see any similarities between between
    this Damon guy and that Frank guy from about a year ago?

                                                            -John

            Dear John,

            No. Damon may be blind, but he knows what the <caps lock>
            is for.
    ________

    When I see a guy/girl on the street wearing a Marillion shirt I feel
    comfortable enough with that person to start a conversation, without
    even knowing that person... It's a really cool thing. There's this
    certain chemistry that Marillion has that brings people together...
    It's real easy to talk to other Marillion fans... I guess DT-fans
    don't have that kind of attitude... It's always a fucking competition.
    t all comes down to: "Mine is bigger than yours...". Screw that...

            I always have really cool conversations with people I meet
            in public (wait, where else would you meet people, in the
            bathroom?) who are Dream Theater fans. Hell, the stage manager
            at The Boardwalk in Sacramento gave me and my friend his
            # after a really nice, long conversation about DT, Fates
            Warning and other prog. metal bands. I've met people at
            concerts, in bookstores, in clubs... The only asshole DT fan
            I might meet is Warren (when I move to Oregon, next year).
    ________

    Since Magna Carta isn't a very well known label, is it going to be
    difficult to find a copy of the Rush Tribute album in stores?

            I noticed that Tower has an "import" section now. There
            are plenty of independent music stores that have popped
            up in recent years. Magna Carta has an email account.
            You will have no trouble finding it. Search your feelings,
            you *know* it to be true.
    ________

            Ah, that was cathartic, though I suddenly have the urge to
            go to Wal-Mart and pound on some $30 Casio keyboards (meaning,
            I'm half blind staring at this damn CRT as I catch up on
            over a decade of 'jams).

            Whoa, there comes another one.
    ________

            And, the number 1 lesson I learned on the ytsejam mailing
            list this weekend:

            "IMHO" is no fucking guarantee!

    Zach

    p.s. Pat, that was a good one. Shows perspective, creativity and
         spontanUity (did I get it right?) Here's willing:

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:36:39 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Kevin Rios <krios@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Queensryche CD-Rom Bonus song!
    Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.92.960428223245.18811B-100000@scls1>

    If you want the song so bad just run the following files from QTW:

                             Btrack1.mov
                             Btrack2.mov
                             Btrack3.mov

    OR just finish the game legit! I just couldn't wait. I think they could
    have made the son a little longer though.

                                          Kevin (WilsonCat)

    WOW BOB WOW!!! - Little man from a strange place

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 22:55:04 EDT
    From: "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Ytse Jamming
    Message-ID: <9604290255.AA12966@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>

    As one who has been involved with recent events, I want to say that, yes, I
    have gone a bit too far in my flaming of Mort. I am wrong. I hope people at
    least understand why I did it. And if it doesn't justify my flaming, at least
    it explains it. MInd you, I am only appologizing for the amount of posts
    concerning Mort, not that I flamed him on the Jam or anything. so, to all who
    hate me, oh well. I am sorry. I lost my temper and overdid it. I am Italian,
    and I have a bad temper. Have mercy, for Pete's sake. I am only human.
    Truthfully, we should all stop sending things into the Jam, get through our
    finals and maybe, just maybe, we will all be friends again. Maybe?

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 23:01:50 EDT
    From: "Damon M. Fibraio" <s0067977@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: FLAMING, MAGNA CARTA
    Message-ID: <9604290301.AA25826@hawkmail.monmouth.edu>

    I just had a thought. With all the recent hatred on the Jam, with myself
    included, regretabley, maybe we should rename ytsecon III to wrestlemania. I
    mean, at this rate, the con will turn into a mass riot.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:07:53 -0500 (CDT)
    From: Michael Jones <felix@maui.netwave.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Concept Albums
    Message-ID: <199604290107.UAA27311@maui.netwave.net>

    > From: rtgood@students.wisc.edu (Ryan T. Good)
    >
    > Hey All-
    > While we wait for DT's new one (in October, right?), let's shoot the shit
    > about some concept albums, eh? Here are some of my favorites:
     ...
    >
    > What else have we out there??

    Savatage: Streets
              Dead Winter Dead

    The former being my favorite of the two.

    --
    Mike Jones
    felix@netwave.net
    

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:11:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Backof <mbacko1@gl.umbc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: 2CD for new album Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.960428230749.504B-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>

    [re: Pat stated his opinion about petitioning the record company too often]

    My opinion,

    Well organized petitions are never a bad thing IMO. What the record company wants most is to sell units, if we send in a petition with enough signatures on it pledging to buy the two albums, I see that as demand waiting to be fulfilled. (I have a Bachelors in Economics... yes more people posting qualifications <grin>) As long as we go about this in a professional manor, it can't hurt.

    Later,

    Mike

    ************************************************************************ *Mike Backof **** mbacko1@umbc.edu *** http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1 * *Inferno Home Page ******* http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/inferno.html* *Unsigned & Indie Label Bands Page ******************* Support ********* *http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/munsign.html ****** Local Bands ******* ************************************************************************

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:12:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Jones <felix@maui.netwave.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT Interactive Message-ID: <199604290112.UAA27362@maui.netwave.net>

    > From: jestok@interlog.com (John Estok) > I've seen on many home pages for DT a thing for "Dream Theater > Interactive." I was wondering what this is and if it is worth downloading. > I would be grateful if someone could enlighten me.

    It's a little interactive program done in Macromind Director that allows you to listen to excerpts of a couple songs, and some bio information (apparantly taken from this list). IMHO, something neat to look at once, but not that great...It wasn't done very well.

    -- Mike Jones felix@netwave.net

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:22:18 -0400 (EDT) From: kingfrog@prolog.net To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT Ripp offs! Message-ID: <199604290322.XAA17173@ns1.ptd.net>

    It was bound to happen. I knew it was only a matter of time before all the Dream Theater copy cat bands would surface. The problem is that most of them don't know what they are doing. They think by reversing a beat or playing in 9/8 time makes you in the same leauge. HA! I wasn't impressed at the songs on Shadow Gallery's debut CD. While the piano player and guitar work stand out...the songs lack in the melody dept. I've played it a few times and nothing catches. The parts I do find myself hummimg are usually piano riffs. No offense to the band or it's fans...but it seems like they are trying too hard. One band I do like a lot is Ivanhoe. At many times on "Symbols Of Time" they sound exactly like DT. I absolutley love this CD. The main difference between them & DT is that although they sound progressive..they pretty much stay in straight time. You've got to hear this guy sing....WOW! Another weak attempt at ripping off DT is Symphony White. Here we have someone thinking he's Goeff Tate's brother and some of the cheesiest lyrics since poison's "Look what the Cat Dragged In". Stay away from this one..... Comments welcome at kingfrog@prolog.net

    Brian

    ------------------------------

    Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:40:30 -0400 From: Deebor@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: how to learn DT parts on keyboard, IMHO!! Message-ID: <960428234030_102465117@emout08.mail.aol.com>

    First of all, I'm not new, I just haven't posted in a long, long time. So I may be a bit rusty, but I know what I'm doing. (sort of) So no flaming me thinking I'm a newbie.

    Regarding the bass part(left hand) of the WFS section in LTL: I believe it goes like this, IMHO(avoiding flammage from Mort-types): (lowercase means 8va) E e A B D E e A B D E e A B D E e A B C c G A c C C G A C c C A a D E G D B b D b (repeat) Again, this is only what I hear it to be.

    Helpful tip: If you don't own a slowing-down-music-machine or whatever, a good way to learn any DT parts that play many 16th or 32nd notes in a row is to sit down with your piano/keyboard next to the CD player and play the first note of the sequence. Then hit rewind and listen to the first and second note and play them. Hit rewind again and listen for the note right after the one you last played, and play it. Keep doing this until you've learned the sequence. One of the parts I've learned using this method is the first keyboard solo in Metropolis. If anyone wants the transcription for that, e-mail me. Also, any keyboardists out there who own or know transcriptions for any DT songs, segments, or whatever, e-mail me with them or post them to the jam, please. In particular, I'm looking for the big keyboard solo in TTT(not the guitar-keyboard unison part, which I know, by the way, in case anyone wants the notes for it), the keys-solo in UAGM, and the keyboard solo in Scarred. Thanks in advance.

    George Fan deebor@aol.com

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    End of YTSEJAM Digest 1497 **************************



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