YTSEJAM Digest 1495
Today's Topics:
1) Mail Item Format Warning
by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/28/96 - 18:18:00" <response@ibmmail.com>
2) New Bruce among other things
by Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
3) 2CD Set
by michael.bradley@mail.cc.trincoll.edu (Michael Bradley)
4) Summer Metal Meetings Part II
by Jason Breitweg <jbreitwe@lobelia.physics.wisc.edu>
5) WDADU not DT
by Cornholio <hiw100@psu.edu>
6) For the love of god man!
by Adam Pye <alpine@negia.net>
7) various DT q's
by deutelgk@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1494
by buster <buster@ee.net>
9) Summer Release Dates (NDTC)
by rtgood@students.wisc.edu (Ryan T. Good)
10) swamp terroist? where?
by mike <syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1494
by "James Wiseman (Mr Who?)" <ma5jw@bath.ac.uk>
12) Help!
by Alan Estrada <al766074@academ01.mty.itesm.mx>
13) Ytse Jamming
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
14) Re: Loud
by jestok@interlog.com (John Estok)
15) Zero, Kim, Bafu and Andy.
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:16:39 EDT
From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 04/28/96 - 18:18:00" <response@ibmmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
Message-ID: <199604281716.KAA09377@mindcrime.ax.com>
The mail item that you sent at 17:16:32 GMT on 28 Apr 1996 has been delivered.
However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 09:11:00 PST
From: Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New Bruce among other things
Message-ID: <199604281718.RAA52771@pop01.ny.us.ibm.net>
** Reply to note from ytsejam@ax.com 04/28/96 12:40am -0700
The new dickinson is an excellent cd imho. It's VERY
different from BTP. It's not overly heavy like BTP was,
this is a bit faster and a tiny bit commercial. It has some
kick ass songs and some excellent musicianship. There are
no, Tears of the Dragon epics and so forth though but
definetly some great moments.
Bruce has an excellent voice as well, HARDLY any growling
at all and he just belts out the voice big time. I was VERY
impressed.
QR vs DT
Both bands are great, I do think Promised Land was an
excellent cd.
Much Music
Did anyone else catch this discrace yet?
Mark
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\|
"To each his own and his own be damned"
msmeets@ibm.net or msmeets@smartt.com
No more web page, email me if you have any questions, I'll be getting a new site soon.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:38:15 -0500
From: michael.bradley@mail.cc.trincoll.edu (Michael Bradley)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 2CD Set
Message-ID: <v01520d00ada9686ecf26@[157.252.65.110]>
Hey Guys,
I just want to put in my 2 cents and agree with Mike Bahr that
petitioning for a 2CD set is a terrible idea. Dream Theater needs to do
really well with this new album and at this point they do not have a fan
base sizable enough to make a 2CD set worthwhile.
Also, almost every band goes into the studio with about 20 songs
ready to go and they usually record about half that. This is partly what
enables bands to keep cranking out albums. Alice in Chains, for example,
had about 25 songs written for Facelift and they only put about 10 on the
album. Trust me, I have the other 15:)
A 2 CD set, although every Ytsejammer's dream, could be a disaster
for the band. In the US, Awake didn't do very well. After that, it would be
asking a lot from the public to ask them to pay for 2 CDs. I don't judge
bands by their record sales, but I want to see DT make it HUGE, because
they're some of the most talented players out there. Petitioning the record
company for a 2CD set is pushing it. We did it for ACOS, but let's not get
annoying. This is in no way a flame, but I think we should all think twice
before mailing that petition out.
-Mike Bradley
P.S.--There's no way in hell the band could stick to their October release
date if they were to put out 2 CDs.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 12:33:59 -0500
From: Jason Breitweg <jbreitwe@lobelia.physics.wisc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Summer Metal Meetings Part II
Message-ID: <199604281733.KAA09653@mindcrime.ax.com>
Hi All,
Anyone out there going to the Summer Metal Meetings Tour Part II this
summer in Germany? Ties and I and a bunch of friends are going to the
Berlin show on June 8th. The bands include: Savatage, Tiamat, Rage,
Cremetory, Nevermore, The Gathering, Iced Earth and Lake of Tears! It
should be a kick ass show. The rest of the tour dates are on the
Savatage home page which can be reached from my home page whos URL is
below.
So if anyone is planning on going to the Berlin show e-mail me and
maybe we can get together. Adios.
Jason
Currently Playing: DT - Awake
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jason T Breitweg (jbreitwe@lobelia.physics.wisc.edu) |
| Ich bin ein Dream Theaterfan |
+---------------=> http://lobelia.physics.wisc.edu/jbreitwe <=----------------+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:58:57 -0400
From: Cornholio <hiw100@psu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: WDADU not DT
Message-ID: <199604281758.RAA43216@r02n05.cac.psu.edu>
Look, I am very good at listening to music. That is what I hve been
training to do. Given that a peice of paper saying that you completed a
course doesn't make you an authority, but when all you listen to is DT,
that does not make you an authority either. You have to listen to the stuff
in their roots, ie Beethoven, Mahler, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, Mozart, Bach,
Berlioz, Rimsky-Korsakov, Kachaturian, Dukas, and the list goes on. So do
us all a favor and dont point out the obvious by saying that the vox are
different as well as the vox style and the production. Any idiot that has
ears the hear sound can tell you that. Tell us why the albums are _really_
different. Like I already said, most of the music was written at the same
time. You should hear some of the other stuff that was written at that time
on th einstrumental albums. It just rocks. The structures are the same as
well. Given that they use free form alot, but PMU and Afterlife are in the
same structure...Intro, verse, chorus, solo, bridge, outro, with the added
variables in between. Include OAMOT, Metropolis, TTT, LTL, LFAGA, TKH, and
even the YTSEJAM. The the two or three recurring themes. I dont know
anyone that likes WDADU and not I&W or vice versa. In fact, alot of people
that I know, including myself, think that the music and lyrics taken as a
whole are on an equal level between the two albums. Some of their best
stuff is on WDADU. I am not saying that you did not say that. Dont get me
wrong. It is a lost cause when you cant back up what you are trying to say,
pal. SO give it up unless you have facts.
later y'all
Yitzik
______________________________________
"When sometimes I wake up screaming,
will my fears survive when I fall asleep?"
---Superior---
______________________________________
"The way your heart beats, makes all the
difference, It's what decides if you will endure
the pain that we all feel; The way your heart
beats Makes all the difference in Learning to
Live. Spread before you is your soul, So forever
hold the dreams within our hearts; Thru natures
inflexible grace I'm learning to live."
---Dream Theater---
______________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 14:08:04 -0400
From: Adam Pye <alpine@negia.net>
To: Mojo <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: For the love of god man!
Message-ID: <199604281808.OAA27692@peach.negia.net>
> The phrase IMHO is NOT a license for people to make
>stupid blanket statements...
Which, if you had actually comprehended his message, you mgiht realize he
didn't make a blanket statement. Take a peek at the QR newsgroup. You
might actually figure out what he's talking about...
>
>Now this on the other hand, is not fine, because while you're stating
>an opinion, you are also stating a really pushy blanket statement:
>
> "IMHO, You are missing the point of progressive music if you don't
>listen to Dream Theater AND Queensryche!"
Whwew! Then it's a good thing he didn't say that. He said that if one
listens to both QR and DT and compares them, bashing one over the other, one
is, IN HIS HUMBLE OPINION, missing the DIVERSE NATURE of progressive music.
Hey, how much is that Hooked on Phonics? We could start a fund raising
drive if you need it! :-)
> If you can't take the fucking flame then get out of the
>kitchen...we've all been flamed for things we've said...don't cry like a
>baby, calling everyone immature just to hide your own immaturity...Not
>too smart!
Kinda like you I'm sure many would agree. He was expressing an opinion and
you go into the ever-so-mature flaming of his PERSON, not his opinion.
That's immaturity at the worst. You can disagree with what someone says,
but when you start making personal attack your actions are shitty (the
technical term mind you).
--- > I have to address this because, someone said something equally >stupid.... > > The end to all my messages reads... "M O J O M A N S P E A K S"I can only assume you're talking about me. I couldn't care less about your .sig. That's why I included a smiley after I made fun of it. It does sound rather pompous, but we don't need to know that b/c your messages are already filled with the stuff.
L E S S O N ' S O V E R... (As Mojo puts it)
Adam alpine@negia.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:12:23 -0500 (EST) From: deutelgk@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: various DT q's Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.960428140358.539071744B-100000@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDU>
I've got a couple questions here. I've finally begun tackling the guitar book to I&W this year. I've been making decent progress (though architecture school takes most of my time) except in parts that have more bizarre timing. Does anyone have suggestions for learing parts in 11/8, (7+5)/8, or any of the other unsusual timing listed in that book? Also, someone mention some inaccuracies in the transcriptions. I've found one section that was left out completely, but not too much else. Any suggestions there? As for someone who mentioned bands like KoRn, Rage, 311, and others: try Deftones, they are extremely intense! Cradle of Thorns is pretty good live, but only marginal on disc. Greg
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Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:28:55 -0700 From: buster <buster@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1494 Message-ID: <3183E317.5627@ee.net>
> From: mojoman@pointblank.com > To: ytsejam@ax.com > Subject: QR, DT, the idiocracy of things and stupid people
> Now this on the other hand, is not fine, because while you're stating > an opinion, you are also stating a really pushy blanket statement: > > "IMHO, You are missing the point of progressive music if you don't > listen to Dream Theater AND Queensryche!"
I'm really getting tired of you mis-quoting me in open forum.
I said IMHO if you LOVE dt, but HATE qr, then you're missing the point of progressive rock big time.
And yes, it is my opinion, because it is hard for me to fathom that someone who really appreciates progressive rock for what it is would HATE a band like QR.
> If you can't take the fucking flame then get out of the > kitchen...we've all been flamed for things we've said...don't cry like a > baby, calling everyone immature just to hide your own immaturity...Not > too smart!
Who's crying? I think your replies are lame, and they should be in private email. I don't call everyone immature, I call *YOU* immature. No one else in here was childish enough to launch a personal attack on another jammer for defending a band. As long as you continue to post mis-quotations and personal opinions about me, I will continue to defend myself. Apparently you didn't feel that responding to my PRIVATE email TO YOU would accomplish anything. Why? Because solving the issue is not what you care about, and it's become really obivous to more than a few people here.
buster
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:27:55 -0500 From: rtgood@students.wisc.edu (Ryan T. Good) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Summer Release Dates (NDTC) Message-ID: <199604281827.NAA107854@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Hey all- Since it seems time for a little breather from what's been going on lately, I thought it would be a good idea to start listing some up to date CD release dates for all of us Jammers (not to mention, I need them anyway). Summer's coming, and hopefully we'll all have some expendable income, so ALL who want to, if you have a release date of some good tunes, say so in the subject and say release date. For example "Subject: echolyn - release date" and send 'er in. Here are some we all are interested in: echolyn - When the Sweet Turns Sour Rush Tribute - (any title yet??) Jethro Tull Tribute - To Cry You a Song Sacred Reich - Heal (Is this out yet??) Enchant - Shadow Gallery-
Alright people, contact your contacts, and make a shopping list!! ________________________________________________
"I wheeled around because I didn't hear what you had said" -Phish, "Sample in a Jar." ________________________________________________
name - Ryan T. Good e-mail - rtgood@students.wisc.edu phone - 1-(608)-264-2268 what - Madison Student Radio who - Music Staff (Music Stapher) which kind - Progressive Rock/Heavy Metal why - why not?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: mike <syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu> To: Yitz-see-jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: swamp terroist? where? Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960428150019.14509A-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
hey, all.
a few things i feel that i should mention about:
1: Mojoman. Of COURSE i'm cool like that. Not only am i on pointblank.com (/r swamp terrorist), but i like dt.
to aall of those doing this whole flame/flame thing. i have but 5 words:
SHUT THE FUCK UP, ALREADY.
sorry, but i needed to say it. i've seen enough. this disucssion is supposed to be about dream theater (and related topics), not a whole flame fest. ...and to think mike bahr hated me for resending ytse and the jam. Hmm....
so, for the first time, i got on #ytsejam today...for about 2 seconds. I saw itchy, but i don't think he knew (or could see) me, so i dunno. it's cool and all that, and i'll try to be "around" every now and then. look for syrinx!!@
i was on the d-man's page today. i like. :)
ok. time for fox hockey. i must watch. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hockey. :)
syrinx has spoken. (with complete agreement from mojoman)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:07:54 +0100 (BST) From: "James Wiseman (Mr Who?)" <ma5jw@bath.ac.uk> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1494 Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960428194946.2287A-100000@slc-24>
> > 3) If you flame someone and don't have the good sense to take it > to private e-mail. > > 4) If your .sig takes up an entire screen (or more) > > 5) If you start a thread on religion, or spread a rumor of any > DT-member or other musician being gay. > > 6) If you post three times (or more) in a row, quoting other > people and adding just one line of your own.
I'm not sure adding new rules would be the solution. For starters, where would you stop? Whenever someone deos soemething new wrong, does that mean we add a new rule? Also don't rules and restrictions on the lists such as ours contravene what we all cherish most about the net? i.e it's freedom. I think the present set do just fine as long as people observe a certain degree of net etiquette.
Since my topic was the source of the most bitter flame war of late, I am a little wary of things I say, so no one take this message personally, it's only IMHO.
> Hi Jammers, > > BTW, how many UK Jammers are their? >
Hiya Andy! I'm one of them. It's always good to see someone from the UK join the list. In which corner do you reside? I think there are quite a few of us around, but not sure how many.
Jimbo
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 13:35:55 -0600 From: Alan Estrada <al766074@academ01.mty.itesm.mx> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Help! Message-ID: <199604281935.NAA199115@academ01.mty.itesm.mx>
>I've played the >extended version of "Learning To Live" for almost two years now, so I now >that, and about every other Dream Theater song very, very well. If someone >needs help with solos or tough parts, just mail me and I'll reply ASAP. I >really get pissed off by jerks who think they've been clever, but who really >STINKS! Eat shit, pal.
I Want to play this song (in fact I'm only interested in barfbag, or wahtever the solo of the end is called) If anyone has a tab for it, or can tab it for me please email me...
Since the list is very long I rarely read it complete, so please email me privately.... if you write to the list maybe I won't read it..... Thanks!
Stay cool... at least somebody's cool as you @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ___ _ @ Alan Estrada Adler @ / | | | @ @ | | | | __ _ _ @al766074@academ01.mty.itesm.mx@ | | |/ / | / |/ | @ @ \__/\_/|__/\_/|_/ | |_/ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:23:04 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu> To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Ytse Jamming Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9604281532.A3853-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
It took some will power, but after reading the last 3 or 4 Jams, I fought back the urge to flame the flamers. That's not supposed to be the reason for this list.
We should be exchanging ideas about music here, freely, without the fear of getting cut off at the knees, as has been happening lately. Everybody on this list (myself included) has gotten really sophomoric and edgy. I hope it's just final exam stress, but who knows? Anyway, here's my point. The last jam or two reminded me of being in third grade, where everyone would keep telling each other to shut up, so that the room never got quiet. If you flame someone to get them to stop flaming, it's probably not going to work. (although it apparently did work with Mort, but, hey, there's an exception to every rule.) Here's what I'm trying to say: if someone posts relating a musical opinion that varies from your own, then share your opinion and accept the fact that people have differing opinions. If someone states something obviously ignorant and insulting, then, you know, maybe one flame for comedic effect, but make it funny, and don't get too personal. Anything beyond that, I think, really should be taken to e-mail.
What has been going on here, however, has really been nasty. Name calling, doubts of people's abilities, age discrimination, I'm a better fill-in-the-blank than you are, people flaming personal friends... Let's just call a big, list-wide truce. Everybody won. Let's get back to the civil discussions.
One final thing. This is the last I'm going to say on this topic. Ever. I've seen probably about 10 different people say the same thing, almost verbatim, about making generalizations about music, and people still do it. Nobody reads this crap, so why do I even bother? I could probably throw in the price of a hooker and a six-pack at the average street corner in La Paz, Bolivia, and everyone would just speed past thinking, "Aw, this is more of that righteous shit. I wanna see someone get toasted!" and keep hitting the page down button. So, I'm done. You want to talk music, we'll talk music. All future flames will promptly be met with mv * dev/null.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ \|/ ____ \|/ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "@'/ ,. \`@" cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" /_| \__/ |_\ d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ \__U_/ http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:35:06 -0400 From: jestok@interlog.com (John Estok) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Loud Message-ID: <199604282034.QAA21857@gold.interlog.com>
>Well, All I can say is that, "LOUD" the new show on much >music that replaced Power 30, is horrible. There is NO VJ, >just an hour of video's, that's it. >
What? It wasn't that bad. I heard that they are currently looking for a host. They need someone to interview Metallica, which was advertised twice "coming in May" over one hour.
>they played that too, but pretty much it was the typical >top 10 bullshit "heavy metal of today" garbage,
They played My Dying Bride and Paradise Lost, two definatly not top 10 bands. Front Line Assembly was good too. I think you went a little overboard with your opinion. Do what I am doing...write to "loud@muchmusic.com" and request, well you know who, and then see if the show still sucks.
Michelob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:56:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> To: ThE NuGgeTjAm <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Zero, Kim, Bafu and Andy. Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.960428160220.22435A-100000@indy17.gclab.missouri.edu>
RipZero wrote: >pat, you would actually foreward ALL of DreamNDay's mail to the jam???? >are you SURE about that??
Actually, I'd probably take the time to condense them into one post.
------
To Elliott Kim: I'm assumming that from the content of your post that it was my last one that set you off. As you know from IRC, I'm not the type to make a blanket statement about any type of music. I don't like country, never have and probably never will. That is not because I don't give it a chance, several members of my family listen to it, and my neighbor here in the dorm does as well. I hear country enough to know that I don't like it. The same with rap. There was a time when I liked it, years ago when it was actually somewhat original, but it has since gone the was of alternative, where everything is rap. Nowadays, if you turn on eMpTyV, and a show isn't on, chances are its Alannis, Oasis, or rap (oh my :). I never condemned anyone for the music that they listen to. I know you like country, and it doesn't bother me, you are still a great guy with a helluva sense of humor. I didn't say that classmates are snivilling idiots for not likeing DT, I said that they were snivilling idiots for not knowing the difference between DT and Warrant and Kiss, which are completely different genres. If I heard a country song, I woundn't say "is this Iron Maden?" Just remember that this is all in my opinion. If anyone would like to take up issue with me, please do it in email, the addresses are below.
------
My two cents on the flame wars:
It's come so clear to me I can see Light fuse and get away what trust and loyalty have done for me No gain, no pain falling miles from the mark It's a fatal game with a thirst for revenge and the true lose everything and a dangerous heart
------
Andy Piercy wrote: >Subject: Introduction and other stuff > >Hi Jammers, > >I've been lurking for about a month now and thought it was about time I >made an entrance.
Bafu, this is just what I was talking about. Andy here waited around for a month and watched the action, and then when he decided it was time to post, he did so in an itelligent manner and responded to several threads in one post. If Corey would have done this, I never would have said a thing to him.
>Andy Piercy > >------------------------------ > >End of YTSEJAM Digest 1494 >**************************
And then the bastard gets an EoJ on his *first* post! :)
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 / | Pat Griffin Reality2 Design | | c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu | h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1495 **************************
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