YTSEJAM Digest 2071
Today's Topics:
1) Re: 7-string examples
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@u.arizona.edu>
2) 7 Strings
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
3) Flaming, Rock Operas, my page
by e8825527@student.tuwien.ac.at (LoneWolf)
4) lyrics
by Tiffany Jean Meyers <meyerstj@whitman.edu>
5) 7-string guitar
by "Jeremy D Schwartzberg" <jeremy@gator.net>
6) Re: Girlfriends and Dream Theater
by Martin Saleteg <marsal-6@student.luth.se>
7) A quicky
by augustl@cyprus-c.it.earthlink.net (Heath Augustover)
8) Re: 7-string examples
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
9) Re: 7-string guitar
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
10) Arkenstone
by szucseue@saber.udayton.edu
11) conversion
by psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
12) Earth..
by satu.reunanen@sci.fi (Satu Reunanen)
13) RE: Long Songs
by Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
14) ...and more lyrics
by "R. Hailey" <pass@u.washington.edu>
15) 7 strings
by m_washke@acad.lvc.edu (Michael Washkevich)
16) Marillion !!!
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:29:49 -0700
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@u.arizona.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: 7-string examples
Message-ID: <199612031629.JAA39462@kitts.u.arizona.edu>
At 07:41 AM 12/3/96 -0800, you wrote:
>I've been reading a lot about John Petrucci (among others) using 7-strings.
>Being no real guitar player myself, I wonder in which songs he is using it.
>Can anyone give me some examples? Thanx.
>
That 7th string is a low B. Being that the guitar is normally tuned
to E, the low B string makes it possible to get a lower, heavier sound.
Examples of this from DT would be:
"Caught in a Web"
"Mirror/Lie"
"A Change of Seasons"
I especially like the 7-string acoustic stuff in the intro to ACOS.
That kicks ass!
Later all,
Peace be with you and God bless.
~Vince
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:35:03 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 7 Strings
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961203163503.006e8a38@enteract.com>
>I've been reading a lot about John Petrucci (among others) using 7-strings.
>Being no real guitar player myself, I wonder in which songs he is using it.
>Can anyone give me some examples? Thanx.
Caught in a Web, The Mirror, Lie.... A Change of Seasons.... just listen for
guitars that play below the lowest note you can hit with your guitar.
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:51:41 +0100
From: e8825527@student.tuwien.ac.at (LoneWolf)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Flaming, Rock Operas, my page
Message-ID: <9612031651.AA84618@stud1.tuwien.ac.at>
Hi there !
First of all, I would really appreciate it if those senseless
flamewars would stop. People who just post to mailinglists
(especially to this kewl one) in order to drag someone down,
haven't understood what the idea of music is all about.
I think that this special ytsejam-mailinglist should do better
than the others. Let's make the jam a place for music-loving,
and loving people. Flaming and hate won't take anyone anywhere.
Second: I'm not an expert for rock operas, but there's
an album that I'm really fond of. It is called "The Final
Experiment" by the Dutch band Ayreon. Probably it's not
available in the states, but if you can get hold of it check
it out.
And finally: this one goes out to all jammers who consider
themselves regulars on irc.dreamt.org.
Please check out http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e8825527/irc.html
That is my irc page, and if you are not on my list, or your
data are incorrect, please mail me at LoneWolf@dreamt.org
to have your information added or updated.
Keep on jammin,
LoneWolf.
"Just call me hollow" (Kevin Moore)
--------- LoneWolf@dreamt.org ------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:04:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Tiffany Jean Meyers <meyerstj@whitman.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: lyrics
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961203085620.29685A-100000@marcus.whitman.edu>
In response to someone's question about the importance of lyrics...
I think they're incredibly important. That's one of my favorite things
about DT, that their lyrics are so insightful, that they actually have
meanings. In fact, I think that good lyrics can go a long way towards
saving a (musically) bad song. For instance, there are a few songs which
I really don't like musically, but I listen to anyway because the lyrics
are so cool. Or OaMoT, which is one of my favorite DT songs even though I
don't think it's technically anywhere near some of the stuff they've
done. The lyrics, though, are incredible. Yes, instrumental music is
cool, and a form of art of which I wish I had more mastery, to convey
feelings with notes and inspire an emotional response in the listener.
But to be able to put those emotions into words... That's not easy
either, and I respect it when I find a band whose lyrics actually mean
something. I think if you're ignoring lyrics on a song, you're missing
half of the experience. Just MHO. :) Maybe I'm biased 'cause I'm an
English major.
Tiffany
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:16:30 -0500
From: "Jeremy D Schwartzberg" <jeremy@gator.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: 7-string guitar
Message-ID: <199612031712.MAA21187@alley.gator.net>
>I've been reading a lot about John Petrucci (among others) using
7-strings.
>Being no real guitar player myself, I wonder in which songs he is using
it.
>Can anyone give me some examples? Thanx.
Petrucci uses the 7-string on most of the songs on Awake. It's really
evident on songs like The Mirror, Lie, and CIAW. He's got the seventh
string tuned all the way down to a 'B' which gives a real deep and ballsy
sound. You can also hear it all throughout ACOS. Pay special attention to
the low note he hits at the beginning of ACOS. You can really hear it
there.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:36:41 +0100
From: Martin Saleteg <marsal-6@student.luth.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Girlfriends and Dream Theater
Message-ID: <32A46529.159C@student.luth.se>
>I got a problem that I hope a few of you maybe able to help me out. I
>asked my girlfriend to go see Dream Theater with me at Birch Hill in a
> 2 weeks. She said yes (after some convincing) but now she is trying to
>back out of going. She says she isn't into Dream Theater at all...or >any
>type of that music. SHe is into club music and all. SHe hasn't really
>listened to DT that much. SO my question is...how do I get her to >really
>want to go and have a good time while she is there??? I would >appricate
>the ladies here to help me out as well. Thaks a million!!!! Later!!
>Dan
Hey Dan. Don't make your girlfriend go if she doesn't want to. I
wouldn't have done such a thing to my girlfriend.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:42:41 -0500
From: augustl@cyprus-c.it.earthlink.net (Heath Augustover)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: A quicky
Message-ID: <v01510101aeca328b5e6d@[153.35.7.158]>
I haven't totally been following all the jams lately, so I don't know if
this has been brought up yet. Anyway, I heard on the radio on Sunday night
that there's going to be a Queen tribute album. The recording is going to
start real soon and many top stars are going to be on that album in the
tribute. I can't remember who the DJ said, but I did hear members of Dt
that are going to be on it. I just think that's going to be real cool.
Anyway, later all and see you all at Mulchay's of Wantagh and at Birch Hill!
Heath Augustover
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 15:03:53 -0500
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: 7-string examples
Message-ID: <32A487A9.2F7C@caribe.net>
SchuBert wrote:
>
> I've been reading a lot about John Petrucci (among others) using 7-strings.
> Being no real guitar player myself, I wonder in which songs he is using it.
> Can anyone give me some examples? Thanx.
Caught in a web,The mirror,lie.. and in the release version of acos..
if i left one out plase help..
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 15:07:02 -0500
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: 7-string guitar
Message-ID: <32A48866.69DE@caribe.net>
>
> Petrucci uses the 7-string on most of the songs on Awake. It's really
> evident on songs like The Mirror, Lie, and CIAW. He's got the seventh
> string tuned all the way down to a 'B' which gives a real deep and ballsy
> sound. You can also hear it all throughout ACOS. Pay special attention to
> the low note he hits at the beginning of ACOS. You can really hear it
> there.
He *ONLY* uses the 7th on Ciaw,mirror/lie on awake..it is shown on the
video.. the 7th string *IS* a low B ..he didnt tune it down...on the
acos part youre right.. but i i think the acoustic part is a alternate
tuning..theres no word of a 7string acoustic..and if you tune down your
acouctic down do low b..it wont sound exactly like acos...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:06:00 -0500
From: szucseue@saber.udayton.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Arkenstone
Message-ID: <96120314060024@saber.udayton.edu>
I have been a fan of David's work for a few years now, and his
compilation material for Narads does not even compare to the
beauty that lives on his lp's, most noteworthy "Another Star In
The Sky", "Citizen of Time", "Quest Of The DReam Warrior", and
"In The Wake of the Wind". As a serious new age fan, I'd also
like to recommend Jean Michel Jarre, whose amazing soundscapes
just jar the mind. Feel free to mail me for any info or
correspondance.
-And Now A Moment Of Silence For The Departure of Jason Becker-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:27:44 -0500
From: psull@ici.net (Pat Sullivan)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: conversion
Message-ID: <199612031912.OAA16213@uhura.ici.net>
>SHe is into club music and all. SHe hasn't really
>listened to DT that much. SO my question is...how do I get her to really
>want to go and have a good time while she is there???
Under the circumstances, I don't know if it's possible. I know my gf
tolerates DT, but her eyes glaze over whenever I start to wax eloquent about
their collective musical prowess. :) I've never asked her to go to a DT show
with me, and I probably never will. I figure if she develops a liking for
the music, she'll ask ME. (I got her into Metallica and Megadeth several
years ago, and she's gone with me to shows by both).
But your case, I don't think a couple of days is going to be enough time to
change her mind. If she doesn't want to go, DON'T try and make her - she'll
just end up being bitter, and you'll NEVER be able to make her a fan.
-----
__<psull@ici.net>__http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
This space for rent...No pithy quotes need apply
_________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:29:25 +0200 (EET)
From: satu.reunanen@sci.fi (Satu Reunanen)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Earth..
Message-ID: <199612031929.VAA10094@id4.sci.fi>
Hello ya all ! Here's the newbie Mape "warned" you about a few jams
earlier..thanks
a million Mape, I'll get you for this,ha !
Okay, there's lots of things I want to say here, I hope you don't die
reading this.
First off, I'm desperately looking for tapetraders. I have lots of
liveshows, demos
and stuff and I'm always after ANYTHING about DT so anyone interested please
e-mail
me soon !
Someone here wrote that girls don't listen to progressive music. That's
pretty much
true. I'm a different kind of gal tho. I've been into music since I was
born, dancing
since the age of 4 or so. That's because my both parents are crazy about
music and
we always had some record on at our house. My parents are different
otherwise too.
I go to concerts with them and festivals and can you believe that it was my
mom who
actually got me into DT !! She listens to the radio a lot and one day she
got this
GREAT song on her tape from there and she played it to me. I was totally
freaked out.
It was Metropolis by DT...can you believe they played that on RADIO ?? And
they even
played the whole song !! So here's to you Dale, there are some great people
out there
on those stations who like DT. Anyway, this happened about a month before
the record
(Images and words) was released in Finland. So that was the beginning of
year '92.
Since then I've been listening to them like crazy. What's funny about this
is, that
I've noticed how I tend to be ahead from others in the music scene. Back at
school I
listened to bands that made it big a few years later. But I guess I can
thank my
parents who got me into music. I even used to know peoples shoesizes and all
'cos I
read all the mags and underground stuff. My brother's played the guitar
since he was
about 11 or so and he's 28 now. My boyfriend plays the guitar too. I've
always been
surrounded with people who play music, so at one point I played the guitar
too. I've
listened to guitarists for ten years (I'm 24 now) and I wanted to be one
too.But as it
is, I had too much hobbies to start a new one. I did't get to practise
enough. So I
quit and thought I'd leave it to those who are good at that. I've always written
lyrics tho and I did play the piano at one point. Most of all I'd like to be
a singer.
DT's Another day is an incredible song, I'll never get bored of singing that !
Blahblah..what I want to say is there wasn't any guy in my case that got me
into DT.
I have to say, sorry guys..but I got my brother, boyfriend and their whole
band into
DT ! And I went to see DT with a bunch of guys. I noticed there wasn't many
women
there. Like maybe..hell, I think I only saw one..yeah, no guy has ever
gotten me into
any band. Well, Mape maybe, but he's different from the guy's I've always
known.
He finds great bands ! Thanks tonz !
About Marillion(someone mentioned them),I heard them the first time when I
was around
12. I did't like them then, I remember watching their concert from TV at New
Years Eve.
They were awful then. But listening to them now is like totally different.
But then
again I've only been to progressive music for like that 4 years I've been
listening to
DT. So I need to listen to them more before I can say anything else on them.
Is there
anyone who's been into them for years ?
About long songs. I'm really into them if they're done well. And DT does
that part
very well ! I've never gotten bored with any of their songs. What I do get
bored of
is that sometimes it feels like my boyfriends only cd is DT's Images..when I
myself
enjoy listening to tonz of bands and not just one cd for months..no matter
how much
I like the cd, but I like to listen to other bands in between too. But he's
not the
music freak here. Wonder how many times I keep hearing him nagging me about
the pile
of cd's I bought THIS time..DAMN THAT IS BORING !
Bafu wrote about "attitudes people don't excercise in real life". Well, that
is true.
I've noticed how stiff I am these days with people. But that's only around
people who
aren't the same like me. I mean like old people and people who are into
disco music.
I find myself very hard to change some words with them. Wonder what that is.
Maybe
someone who is "different" hurt me a lot years ago. Oh well. Another thing,
I think
sometimes that "attitude" is needed. Like, when I'm with friends and they
seem depressed
I always somehow end up taking that joker's rolemodel. And I feel so great
when I see
them laughing their asses off..otherwise I don't like affected people. This
world seems
to have them so much these days.
Dan wanted to know how to get his girlfriend into the DT show.Just play her
all the
DT ballads..if those don't work, leave her..ha, jokejoke !!
- I mother earth are great ! You all go and get their cd's !
Sad to hear about Jason Becker. I've listened to him for many years. And he
was a great
person. The good die young as they say. I guess I'll live forever..geez !!
Rest in peace Jason.
Ok, I guess I'm done here. Don't know if this is going thru since I wrote a
novel
here, but I hope so.
Also, all you from Greece, Japan, Ireland, Portugal whatever, get in touch !
I'm missing
friends from those countries and tons more so please ANYBODY write me ok !!!!!
.love is an act of blood and I'm bleeding.. take care ! SATU
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 21:06 NFT
From: Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: RE: Long Songs
Message-ID: <m0vV16Z-0002fCC@tellus.thn.htu.se>
>
> On a different note, how many fellow jammers feel that long songs can
>get boring. I really haven't formed an opinion on "A change of seasons"
>.......
Well, Me on the other hand really like long songs. I now it's impossible to
generalize, but the longer the better. But it's not really about the actual
length, but if there is a big change in mood, during the epos. That I really
like. And it should also be telling some kind of a story. Note that you
don't have to use words, since I at least can find a clear story in
instrumental/classical themes as well. ( the best example of today: Morning
Mood of Peer Gynt by GRIEG)
And to pick up the thread about Maiden. I'm very fond of their last songs
of the albums (Rime, Hallowed, Dune,,,) To me them are the best that they've
done, in general, and they all are quite long, aren't they, with changes in
mood. So it fits!
And aCoS is a really good song, not only thanks to its length, but also to
its changes in mood, and perhaps most important, the
easy-to-relate-to-story. That is one of the signums of DT, isn't it? To me
that's important, and I think the put a lot of effort in making the lyrics,
unlike some of my fellow DTfriends.
That was one of the things I disliked about Yngwie. He (them) had ability,
moody songs, but the lyrics were all about fighting dragons of evil, which
I've never done.
Ok, now I'll leave it to you. Go pens...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Henrik Gustafsson henrik@thn.htu.se
Quality deployer +46(0)520-47 50 49 [fax +46(0)520-47 50 99]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "R. Hailey" <pass@u.washington.edu>
To: digest <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: ...and more lyrics
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.961203111237.81688E-100000@dante06.u.washington.edu>
as with so many subjects, this one cannot be delineated in a black and
white manner, so I put forth my carefully considered opinion thusly:
depending on the circumstances, lyrics can add or detract from a song.
for those of you for whom reasons are necessary, read on, bros:
as Tiff mentioned, the insightfulness of DT's lyric is a huge plus,
and good lyrics can add much to an mediocre song.
however, I've found that lame lyrics can detract just as much from a good
song (or album).
ferinstance, there has been much talk of Cacaphony recently;
several years ago, a friend played the album for me,
and I was very impressed -- until the singing started.
that completely turned me off.
or take Savatage's 'Handful of Rain;'
'pictures at a exhibition' is an amazing composition, and almost worth
the price of the album....
but I just couldn't get past 'taunting cobras,' so I sold the disc.
back to the opposite side of the spectrum,
I've found that extraordinary lyrics can provide a toehold when
attempting to grasp strange music
such as echolyn's 'as the world,' which was probably the most proggy disc
I had had heard at the time that I got it.
but the lyrics were undeniable, and gradually the musical nuances revealed
themselves to me, and AtW is now one of my favourite discs.
and resting finally in the middle,
there are those songs wherein the lyrics are merely odd or
incomprehensible,
and it is the music which builds the bridge to the (don't go there)
..lyrical appreciation.
exhibit one: much of jon anderson's (of Yes) lyrics
exhibit two: some of Dream Theater's lyrics
(and I won't even mention Magma here)
oddly enuff, the same can be said of poetry,
or of strange prose such as James Joyce's 'Ulysses;'
in the case of poetry or prose, it is often the style, cadence, &c,
that provides the 'hook;' but I stray far off topic here...
but it is repeated visitations to said material eventually unearth the
meanings. the first time I heard DT, it was definitely the music that
caught my ear; I was disappointed, in fact, when I first read the liner
notes, because the lyrics seemed for the most part oblique suggestions of
ideas (a little minstrel in the gallery there; sorry) and I just didn't
get it. But the music was my hook, and eventually, I attained
enlightenment. and in my mind, easily divined lyrics are not worth the
time it takes to memorize them; it is much more rewarding to dig for
meaning (a meaning which oft is unique to the diviner).
umm...what was the question again?
whatever it was, I hope y'all had fun reading (or not) this,
cause I had the time of my life writing it.
r.christopher hailey
how sublime a thing it is
pass@u.washington.edu http://weber.u.washington.edu/~pass
to suffer and be strong -- enchant: 'catharsis'
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:12:31 -0800 (PST)
From: m_washke@acad.lvc.edu (Michael Washkevich)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 7 strings
Message-ID: <199612032012.MAA18540@pawn.ax.com>
I've been reading a lot about John Petrucci (among others) using 7-strings.
Being no real guitar player myself, I wonder in which songs he is using it.
Can anyone give me some examples? Thanx.
Just one quick example- the very beginning of Change of Seasons (The clean
part) he is obviously using an open low B there.
Anyone know of any manufacturers who (commercially) make 7 strings (besides
Ibanez)? I'm well aware of manufacturers that will do it custom for me, but
I'd be willing to take suggestions there too.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:55:04 +0100
From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
To: "'The Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Marillion !!!
Message-ID: <01BBE160.A6E8B840@Quark.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
Eric Hansen asked about Marillion :
> Could someone compare "Afraid of Sunlight" with the bands other
> releases.
If you like "AoS" you should definately pick up "Brave"... It's a 71:08
minute concept album... IMO, it's their best album to date... Actually,
it's one of my all time favourite albums :-) You could also check out
their most recent release, "Made Again"... A double live album...
Disc 2 contains the entire "Brave" album, live ! "Seasons End" is also
great... "Holidays in Eden" is a bit more "radio-friendly", but still
very good...
> Is it better? Worse? Completely different?
Well, last month I organized a little Marillion poll on my homepage...
I just put the results up, last Sunday. "AoS" and "Brave" both ended
on the number 1 spot :-) The results will be there for a while, along
with a lot of Marillion-icons I made... I also just put up a page with
29 Marillion pictures, if you're interested :-> Check it out :-D
> I wish radio would pick them up. Do they anywhere?
Not really... They're basically ignored by British radio stations
and they're not exactly big in the US (yet)... Here in Holland they
occasionally get some airplay, mostly just before or after a new
release... Other than that, the only song that gets *some* airplay
is "Kayleigh" from their '85 album "Misplaced Childhood"... This is
also a great concept album, but with a different singer (Fish).
> How did you all hear of them?
.."Kayleigh" :-) back in '85
> I had never heard of them until I started reading the jam.
That's how I got into Tori Amos' music... :-)
> If the other discs are as good as this one I'll just have to
> go and pick them up.
Personally, I think "Brave" and "Seasons End" are much better,
and those are just the albums with Steve Hogarth on vocals...
After you've got those, check out "Clutching At Straws" or
"Misplaced Childhood" with Fish ! They're brilliant too :>
The next album will be released around April '97... The current work
title is "Strange Engine" and the title track will be 18 minutes long !
There will also be a 2CD compilation album out next year...
Actually, there was a little competition on the Marillion-list,
where the subscribers got to name the album... *I* WON :-)
along with 4 others who came up with the same title. Disc 1 will have
Fish/Marillion songs and Disc 2 will contain Hogarth/Marillion songs.
It'll have *two* album covers... One made by Mark Wilkinson (Fish-era)
and one made by Bill Smith (Hogarth-era). The ones who came up with
the title will receive a signed copy of the artwork!!! I'm so happy :-)
It'll be called "The Best Of Both Worlds" (no, *not* the VH-track).
I considered taking this to private mail, but thought some of you
might be interested in it too... Oh, who am I kidding... I just
wanted to gloat about that signed artwork I'm getting !!! :-P
Mark
_______________________________________________________itchy@dreamt.org__
All of us get lost in the darkness _ _____ ___ _ _ _ _
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars /=][_===_]/==_][=\_/=](=]_[=)
All of us do time in the gutter RUSH | | [ ] ( (_ | _ | \ /
Dreamers turn to look at the cars THE PASS [_/ [_/ \___][_/ \_) [__/
____________________________________________________bredius@globalxs.nl__
Maintainer of the Freaks, Ytsejam and Voices "Most Frequent Poster Lists"
http://www.prognosis.com/itchy http://www.globalxs.nl/home/b/bredius/
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2071
**************************
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