YTSEJAM Digest 2081
Today's Topics:
1) FFSSWIA
by nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2080
by BlackSax@gnn.com (Richard D. Slaughter)
3) Derek messing up, Girls and DT
by Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org>
4) ONE EXTRA TICKET FOR TONIGHT!!!
by BERTAPELLE ADAM RAYE <bertapel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
5) Birch Hill, Poughkeepsie, Go To Hell
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
6) Vocal instrument
by "SchuBert" <H.M.Peeters@stud.tue.nl>
7) Spoilers
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
8) Steve Vai and RUSH concerts
by Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu>
9) Kevin Gilbert NEWS!
by John Fewer <jfewer@voyager.newcomm.net>
10) Great - A New DT Song Title Acronym
by "Greg R. Lee" <greg@aix.can.ibm.com>
11) Birch Hill starting time?
by Greg Slang <slanggm@jmu.edu>
12) RE: many thanksgiving replies.... AND DT in Chicago?
by Kent Cowgill <kentc@intersites.com>
13) Providence show
by Brian Jones <bjones@wheatonma.edu>
14) taping the shows, the setlists for the shows so far
by curth@execpc.com
15) How are the new songs?
by Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se>
16) DREGs of the Internet CD review...
by schew@tis.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 15:29:03 +0100
From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: nga@server3.software-ag.de
Subject: FFSSWIA
Message-ID: <9612061429.AA00290@sundoc13.software-ag.de>
Hi all
yes, my subject does say FFSSWIA. Is it a new band? Is it a new album? Can you
catch it of toilet seats? No. It simply means
for fuck's sake stop writing in abbreviations
At long last I see that some other hardy souls are daring to stand up and say
they don't pay much (if any)attention to lyrics and would actually prefer some
bands if they didn't have singers. I knew somebody else would agree with me one
day.
Thursday night is metal night on German TV, first there is Metalla in VIVA, and
then Headbangers' Ball on MTV. Last night was especially interesting. Metalla
featured the Finnish band SENTENCED and their new album DOWN. Some excellent
live footage (did I see you surfing, Mape?), and the band requested videos by
groups such as MOONSPELL, SAMAEL, CORROSION OF CONFORMITY and TYPE O NEGATIVE.
Then came Headbangers' Ball, which featured DIO and MOTORHEAD, but all the
videos were so-called 'classic metal songs' from the 80s. What am I getting at?
Well, some of you wonder why so few people listen to metal or why so few of your
conversion attempts are successful. Easy: if people listen to or see this stuff
of saw it when it first came out, they will have a terrible opinion of metal,
and I can't really blame them. It was painful and embarrasing to see some of
the crap they played: three of the worst offenders were bands that are highly
esteemed on the Jam (though I don't know why) - JUDAS PRIEST, SAVATAGE and
SCORPIONS. Boy was I glad that I stopped listening to metal in the late 70s
and then started again in the 90s.
Anybody know what the band had to eat before the shows (a full menu if possible)
and what colour underpants Derek was wearing? If you're looking for me at Birch
Hill, I'm the big guy who won't be there.
Skyclad tomorrow - something to look forward to, other than getting drunk after
work today.
stay safe and happy listening
Neil Gallop
(nga@software-ag.de)
Currently playing: Anathema - Eternity
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 08:55:36
From: BlackSax@gnn.com (Richard D. Slaughter)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2080
Message-ID: <199612061452.JAA01396@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>What is 'The Wall' by Pink Floyd actually about?
>
"Pink" is depressed because he screwed his life over, and feels
that the world is passing judgement on him for not hiding his
feelings. Pisser, eh?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 10:10:19 -0800
From: Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Derek messing up, Girls and DT
Message-ID: <32A8618B.5FD8@dreamt.org>
>Wednesday night at Poughkeepsie was my first DT show. They are truly
>an incredible bunch of musicians and are as tight live as they sound
>on the albums. One mistake I did catch was at the beginning of
>Learning to live, when Derek started with the keyboards and Mike came
>in with the drums. It seemed that either Derek was playing too slow
>or Portnoy came in too fast. My ears picked up a problem, and when I
>looked at Derek, I saw him stop playing for about 3 seconds. He
>tilted his head towards his monitor, and had an expression of
>concentration as he listened to pick up the beat. He then came back
>in on time and resumed the rest of the show flawlessly.
I didn't pick that up, but I heard at the show at the Malibu show in
June of 95, Derek screwed the whole intro up before Mike even came in
and had to stop and re-start. I think he just has problems with this
song. I can't see why. I'm not even a keyboard player and even I can
play the intro to LtL!
You know what? I was afraid that since Portnoy is supposedly on the jam
looking over, that someone from the jam would tell him I was the one
that started all that shit with Derek last year. That's a little out
there, though. I don't think that would ever happen. Don't mind me. I'm
still fucked up from seeing the greatest band in the world live and then
going to school on 4 hours of sleep yesterday. WOOOHOOO!
Anyway, notice I said girls and not girlfriends. My friend Jessi was
always like "Dream Theater's not bad, blah blah blah". I tok her to the
show on Wednesday and she couldn't believe it! She's been turned die
hard fan overnight!
========================================================================
"Are you gonna bark all day, little -----
doggie, or are you gonna ---- ------------- ----
bite?"-Micheal Madsen, ---- - ----
Reservoir Dogs -- - - - - - - - --
"Just victims of the in-house - - - - - - -
drive-by. They say jump, - - -- - -- - -
you say 'How high?"-Rage -- - - - - - - - --
Against The Machine ---- - - - ----
later--------------Brian ---- ------------- ----
-----
========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:39:50 -0700 (MST)
From: BERTAPELLE ADAM RAYE <bertapel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: ONE EXTRA TICKET FOR TONIGHT!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.961206083725.13578B-100000@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Hey, my roommate just flaked out on me (yes, it's 10:43 day of show) so I
have one extra ticket for New HAven tonight. Can anybody use it? Please
e-mail back ASAP and I'll get a hold of you before I jump on the train at
about 5:15. Pplease leave your phone number and I'll call you back.
-Adam
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 07:42:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Birch Hill, Poughkeepsie, Go To Hell
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.961206074150.43284G-100000@dante20.u.washington.edu>
> From: Dan <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2074
>
> Hello all.
>
> If anyone has ever been to Birch Hill before please let me know how it
> is. I have heard mixed results about it from Being the worst place to
> see a show, crowded, can't see shit, way too lound. I mean does the
> place suck that bad or what.
The security guards have police batons. One guy last year had a taser for
when things got out of hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if they all do
this year. The red sprinkler-heads (red, not black) installed on the
ceiling are hooked into mace pumps. If the crowd starts getting rowdy or
moshing or doing something that physical manpower can't handle, all the
soundboard guy has to do is activate the sprinkler-head closest to the
"troubled" area and BAMMO! everyone starts writhing around crying their
eyes out. Last year a riot broke out and they hit us with nerve gas, so
watch those vents. And I don't even want to get into what happens when
LaBrie spots someone with a recording device...
---- > From: "Larry Odneal" <hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com> > Subject: Familiar names and faceless, uh . . . places? . . . uh . . . > whatever > > Bafu wrote (on Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:53:28 -0800 (PST)): > > > Man was the Poughkeepsie show an absolute bloodfest!! That place > > ROCKED!! The boys did "The Killing Hand!!" I'm so stoked, can't wait > > for Birch Hill... > > Back to your old tricks already, Bafu? ;^)What are you talking about? They played "The Killing Hand" and it kicked ass! Was I the only one there?
---- > From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> > Subject: Re: Short songs > > My favorite song under a minute is "Go to Hell" off of King's X > _Dogman_. Hands down, the best.
To my ears, that one garbled line is, "I really need a clue, if there's anything I can do."
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 16:51:01 +0100 (MET) From: "SchuBert" <H.M.Peeters@stud.tue.nl> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Vocal instrument Message-ID: <60664.H.M.Peeters@stud.tue.nl>
> Have you ever thought of human voice as an instrument? Yes, very much so. I am, personally, never very interested in the lyrics of a song, but in the vocal melodies. Also, I really love vocal harmonies. This is the reason I got into Galactic Cowboys at Dynamo Open Air '96 festival (plus, I was stoned as hell at the time). In this case, the extra vocals have nothing to add to the lyrics, so they should be thought of as instruments.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:01:11 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu> To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Spoilers Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.961206075843.25322A-100000@dante24.u.washington.edu>
> From: fish69@juno.com (James D Carey) > Subject: Poughkeepsie SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER > > Here's a quick rundown of how the show went tonight.. > > The band went on stage late after a horrible 2 hour and 20 min sound > check. Got to hang out with Portnoy before the show and chat with him > for a little while (more details to come if ya really want em) The boys > took the stage at 9:37 and here's the setlist along with some > observations and notes..
[stuff removed]
Sounds like a damn good time.
Why must we have diplomas to prove our knowledge in the working world? Why? Why? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!
> They through in a little bit piece of "Cupids Dead" by Extreme during > the middle of Metropolis.
TOO COOL. :)
---- > From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu> > Subject: Poughkeepsie ***SPOILER*** > > Oh my God. I thought the Rush shows were good. Tonight's DT concert at > the Chance in Poughkeepsie was fucking INCREDIBLE. Where to begin...
Please...no more...I can take no more...someone cancel the remaining shows...
> First of all, everyone seems to have new toys to play with. John M. is > using Yamaha 6-string fretless basses. (What happened to the Tung?)
You mean you DIDN'T ask him "What's wrong? Cat got your Tung?"
Geez, Chris, I figured you'd all have the basses covered by now...
> Mike has his new purple and white Tama kit. Oh, damn, it sounds good.
I bet.
> John P. had a black-on-white Picasso pattern 7-string, along with the > usual 6er.
He used the black-on-white on the Awake tour. It was the CIAW guitar.
> Derek and James decided to break out the leather pants. Yuck. :)
Come on, you know you're just repressing a fantasy. (actually wearing leather pants yourself, not seeing Derek and James in them)
> JP and Mike sing harmonies!!! Yes!!! Finally, I can consider DT > perfect. :)
I knew they could to it! :)
> God was it good.
I bet. Why can't professors just hand out degrees without forcing students to first attend countless lectures?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!
> I'm sure I'll think of more to say later on.
Like mentioning the guy you met afterwards who got the whole thing on tape, perhaps?
> P.P.S. I NEED SETLISTS for each of these five shows. If you have an > accurate setlist of any of the shows, mail it to me when you can. This > is for the FAQ.
Boy, your job would be a lot easier if you could just listen to the show all over again and scribble everything down...
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:01:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Case <jcase@ROSSBY.METR.ou.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Steve Vai and RUSH concerts Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.961206093746.12782A-100000@rossby>
(BTW, if anyone does NOT want to know what was in the RUSH concert, then do NOT read this letter)
Hey everyone:
Just thought I'd put my $0.02 in on the recent concerts I atteneded. In just 1 week, I doubled my lifetime concert attendance. So, anyway, Steve Vai first:
He played at a place in Oklahoma City called the Diamond Ballroom. He was phenomenal along with his entire band. From a drummer's perspective, Mike Mangini was truly excellent. Anyway, Vai NEVER let up and just shredded the entire concert. He also played some bizarre, sound-effect type solos. All-in-all, it was one of my best concerts, also because there were only a few hundred people there. And the way the ballroom is set up, everyone can crowd around the stage, so I was only about 20 feet back from the stage the entire concert! I saw every hand and facial motion, etc.
Now, RUSH:
They played 24 songs, including 2112 and Natural Science (an especially good treat), Closer to the heart (of course), the trees, freewill, spirit of radio, tom sawyer, red barchetta, yyz, subdivisions, red sector-a, big money, force ten, roll the bones, dreamland, animate, nobody's hero, leave that thing alone, test for echo, driven, half the world, limbo, resist, and virtuality.
The video on the large screen behind the stage and the laser lights were fantastic. I thought that Geddy Lee really made the show, for he was energetic, sang very good, and his bass playing was incredible. Neil's drum solo was a phenomenal combination of current and old ideas he has done. He was amzing, too, as usual!
Take care, Jon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 12:30:37 -0300 From: John Fewer <jfewer@voyager.newcomm.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Kevin Gilbert NEWS! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961206153037.0069acc4@voyager.newcomm.net>
Check this out. I don't recall it being taboo to talk about this subject. Go here for some recent news on DT's "former" producer. http://musicnews.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1317417097/item=6/MN/NEWS/V2/WEEKLY/wee.main.html/current_news_file=120296/ I don't recall it being taboo to talk about this subject.
********* John Fewer Grand Falls-Windsor Newfoundland, Canada ********* One of few NFLD Jammers. Cabot 500 , COME VISIT! in 1997
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:33:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Greg R. Lee" <greg@aix.can.ibm.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Great - A New DT Song Title Acronym Message-ID: <199612061633.LAA13340@slash.toraix.can.ibm.com>
Adam Bertapelle wrote:
> Check it out! The setlist I took from the stage last night actually has a > title for the new "reworked, rejerked" Caught In A Web. It's called > "Caught In Alice's 9-Inch Tool Garden"
Now this would make the song forever called CiA9ITG. Now that is one heck of a DT song acronym...
Greg, Toronto.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:33:10 -0500 (EST) From: Greg Slang <slanggm@jmu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Birch Hill starting time? Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.93.961206112907.4761B-100000@falcon.jmu.edu>
Can anyone confirm or give a good approximation of when DT will hit the stage on the 14th? Last year I heard 8:00, but they never went on until 12:00. It was a long ass wait. I want to be able to get there at a decent time this year. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
-- Greg Slang, <slanggm@jmu.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:37:59 -0500 From: Kent Cowgill <kentc@intersites.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RE: many thanksgiving replies.... AND DT in Chicago? Message-ID: <v03007800aecdeb766f76@[206.31.52.202]>
>At 12:26 PM 5/12/96 -0800, I wrote (among other things): >> >>Nuno uses a delay for 'Flight of the Wounded Bumblebee'... [snip] >>So in reality, Nuno's playing exactly *half* as fast as
And at Thu, 5 Dec 1996 21:33:35 -0600, Alan Estrada Adler <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx> replied:
>Nuno's speed is great, you can see >that on Warheads,
>but I hope Nuno has the success that he deserves >(as a guitarist, shreder or musician, whatever he want to be)
Right... I didn't say *all* of Nuno's playing is that (relatively) slow... I just wanted to clear up a common misconception about that particular piece :)
I myself am a guitarist, and I've attained a modest level of decency. Nuno's work is very impressive, in all its aspects. Plenty of things that could keep me in the woodshed for a long time.
The same, of course, goes for JP's work. (lame segue?) I just wish I had a seven string guitar myself so I could play more of it... Oh well, a guy can dream, can't he? It's just too bad I'm still paying off my Jem :)
Speaking of which, all this talk about the DT shows has me all excited... Does anyone know if they're coming to the greater Chicago area? I can only imagine how much *more* awesome their music would be live.
Oh... and how many jammers are in the Chicago area? (Just curious :)
-Kent
Kent Cowgill .---'''''---... 1 West State Street Intersites, Inc. 'i n t e r s i t e s. Geneva, IL 60134 .-'-.-'-.-'-.-'-.-'-. ''''---.....---' .-'-.-'-.-'-.-'-.-'-.-'-. kentc@intersites.com http://www.intersites.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:04:41 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Jones <bjones@wheatonma.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Providence show Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961206130149.20953B-100000@tempest.wheatonma.edu>
Is there anyone from the Norton-Taunton-Mansfield, MA area going to the Providence show who can give me a ride? I go to Wheaton College. Please! BJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:27:37 -0600 (CST) From: curth@execpc.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: taping the shows, the setlists for the shows so far Message-ID: <199612061927.NAA29624@earth.execpc.com>
Howdy!
Well, first of all, I want to apologize for bringing up the whole taping issue - having just re-subscribed to the 'Jam, I didn't see the post asking for no-one to tape the shows. However, I would like to mention that this is definite DT history and, rest assured, whoever may get ahold of a recording of one (or more) of these shows will be buying the new album once it's been released. Also, if they aren't even in the process of recording yet, chances are that by the time they do get into the studio, some changes to the songs may happen (though probably minor for the most part) - which is cool since you get to hear the "early" version of the song as opposed to the later one. I think most people understand what I'm saying. 'Nuff said.
After reading the last jam, on which Adam Bertapelle was so kind to post the "stolen" setlist :) it appears that the set was exactly the same - were there any differences between the shows? Does anyone know if the set will vary for the remaining shows? If it does, could someone mention to the band that it would be really cool if they'd play The Mirror the way it was originally intended (as a 10min song without Lie in the middle)? I've always been curious to hear the original (especially considering that The Mirror is my fave track on Awake) to see what was changed and what was left out.
Keep post the setlists! Thanx again
Scott Hansen curth@execpc.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 20:35 NFT From: Henrik Gustafsson <henrik@thn.htu.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: How are the new songs? Message-ID: <m0vW63B-0002fQC@tellus.thn.htu.se>
Hi,everybody.
I'm really glad for all of you that have had the possibility of seeing DT just recently, or in the near future. But could you give us just some sort of more detailed information about the new songs, than: "it was cool " , "Too awesome". Perhaps compare them to other DT-songs or relate to other groups, if it is possible. I'm hoping for a thread like that one we had when Kevin Moore released his demo-tape and it was spread all over the world, with us throwing in our descriptions of it. That was so cool. Reminds me of how much I miss AirDance's always interesting apperance in here. Take care, Jennifer! And the rest of you as well, of course. It's Cristmas coming up, ey! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Henrik Gustafsson henrik@thn.htu.se Quality deployer +46(0)520-47 50 49 [fax +46(0)520-47 50 99]
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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:20:32 -0500 (EST) From: schew@tis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DREGs of the Internet CD review... Message-ID: <29380.9612062020@ragnarok.hq.tis.com>
Brief review: It's quite good -- give it a try!
The DREGS of the Internet CD is a compilation of various unsigned progressive bands. I really wasn't quite sure what to expect before I listened to it, but I figured that I'd like a couple bands and that would be about it. I was pleasantly surprised when I got a chance to listen to it -- I like over half of the twelve bands quite a bit and I definitely would like to hear more from a number of them. Plus, of the bands that I didn't like as well, it's not that they were that bad, but rather that they just didn't fit my tastes well. For more info, including how to buy the CD from them, see the DREG homepage: http://www.hutman.com/dreg/ If you think you might like the CD, give it a try. The Internet is a great way to support the local, unsigned bands out there. (I'm not associate with DREGs, just giving my review of it).
Steve schew@tis.com
Review of "DREGS of the Internet" CD
Overall, the CD is produced quite well. The cover is nicely done and the sound is good. I'll give a brief review of each of the bands:
Clockwork's "Reflections": This is one of my favorite tracks on the disk. I definitely want to hear more from this band. The music is superb, with lots of rhythm changes, cool bass lines, and nice guitar work. I really like how the guitar, bass and percussion work together, providing a lot of variety. The keyboards start out with a big symphonic sound that I like, but then is used less through the rest of the song. I like how the song smoothly changes between slower and faster sections. The vocals are good, with good harmonies.
Happenstance's "Seeing is Believing": This song is more in a neo-prog style than the previous one. I'm not as big of a fan of neo-prog, but it's got a decent melody and the music works pretty well. The guitar is especially well done. The vocals have some nice harmonies. I'd be curious to hear more.
Mirror's "Foolish Shadows": Another song in a neo-prog style. Some pretty good keyboard work on this one, and the music creates a decent atmosphere, but it doesn't grab me much. The vocals don't do much for me either.
Cold Front's "Season's Forgive": This song kind of reminds me of a Grateful Dead style with laid back vocals and music. It doesn't really have much that keeps me interested though.
3250's "Fear Itself": This one's in a fairly straightforward metal style with deep, almost growling vocals. The guitar work is OK at first, but it doesn't really go anywhere.
Psychedelic Lullabies's "Bad Communication": Cool drumming on this one. The drummer and guitarist work well together so provide some good music that stays interesting. The vocals are a little dry, but work pretty well in context.
Facade's "Light Years": Good stuff. The music and vocals (some harmonies) work very well together. It's not to complex, but it keeps my interest nicely.
Inferno's "The Second Hand": Very good guitar work, but the song didn't grab me as much as I had hoped. If you like Inferno from their demos, you'll like this one.
The Age of Reason's "What You Will": Somewhat interesting, jazzy beginning. The rest of the song doesn't interest me much though, unfortunately. It seems to have potential, but it doesn't do much with it. Not much variation or dynamics to keep my interest.
Naked's "Idols": I like this one. The opening sets up a bit of an ominous feel and the rest of the song (while not that ominous) follows up well on it. The vocals are very good with some cool harmonies on the chorus. The music is also superb -- the guitar, bass and drums work very well together. The rest of the demo tape isn't quite up to the standards of this song, but it's good. I look forward to this song when I put in the CD.
Nature's Call "The Running Man": This song has a bit of a neo-prog feel to it, but I like it. It gets a bit repetitive after a while, but keeps my interest pretty well.
Atlantis' "Spiral Into Nine": Great music. Musically, this is probably one of the most 'complex' songs on CD with lots of changes in rhythms and dynamics. The vocals are OK, but don't add much to the song. It's mostly instrumental though and the music is superb so it's a good listen.
If you questions about my review or about the CD, just send me email at schew@tis.com Here's the DREGs homepage again: http://www.hutman.com/dreg/
-- Steve Chew - schew@tis.com - http://www.clark.net/pub/iz/home.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else." --
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2081 **************************
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