YTSEJAM Digest 2084
Today's Topics:
1) DTFC secrets! Put spoilers in the subject!
by Geir Botterli <geirb@hekta.iet.hist.no>
2) Re: Getting a Concert Shirt
by Bruce Miller <BM0042@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
3) Caught In Alice's 9 inch Tool Garden
by Ryan Eschauzier 97 <rdesc@conncoll.edu>
4) abbrvtns
by <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
5) Toad's Place - *spoilers*
by "Henry D." <ytsefan@iconn.net>
6) dt shows :)
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
7) Re: Derek v Kevin
by Neil Elliott <101352.3261@CompuServe.COM>
8) Re: Derek's interpretation of Kevin's lines...
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
9) New Haven (someSPOILERS)
by Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
10) Re: Derek...
by Jan Melander <jan.melander@got.wmdata.se>
11) Re: dt shows :)
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
12) majesty stuff live
by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2083
by Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu>
14) My Pet Peeve
by Ben Laussade <laussade@sprynet.com>
15) December ST Shows
by "Devil's Plaything" <papined@pr.erau.edu>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2082
by edwilk@juno.com (Ed J Wilk III)
17) how "The Mirror" developed
by curth@execpc.com
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Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 16:41:58 +0100
From: Geir Botterli <geirb@hekta.iet.hist.no>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DTFC secrets! Put spoilers in the subject!
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961207154158.008fe790@hekta.iet.hist.no>
>From: Neil Elliott <101352.3261@CompuServe.COM>
>
>Well, the secret is in the mail, so you should find out for yourself exactly
>what it is soon!!!!!
>
>See you in Providence and Birch Hill!
>
>For now,
>
>Neil Elliott
>Director- DTIFC
>
Hi everybody. Please! DO NOT POST WHAT IT IS! I would like to be suprised
when I get it myself. If you have to reveal it, please place *SPOILER* in
big letters in the subject.
Thanks
-- Geir Botterli XMIR geirb@hekta.iet.hist.no DT rules.------------------------------
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 10:49:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Bruce Miller <BM0042@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Getting a Concert Shirt Message-ID: <01ICQ597V1UI000JSC@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU>
I'd love to go to the Christmas concerts out east, but alas, I am stuck in the middle of Iowa at school. I would, however, love to get another DT concert shirt since I only have one right now (from the Minneapolis 1994 concert). Is there anyone who would be willing to send one to me if I were to mail money and return postage (I'd even send the return envelope!).
-Bruce bm0042@acad.drake.edu
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 11:52:49 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan Eschauzier 97 <rdesc@conncoll.edu> To: RESPONSE at IBMAIL <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Caught In Alice's 9 inch Tool Garden Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.961207115121.10911A-100000@oak.cc.conncoll.edu>
I assume the Garden reference someone asked about is to Sound Garden. I didn't think the version sounded particularly grungy, but I guess it was moreso than the original.
r u s h Trust is just as rare as devotion- Forgive us our cynical thought e m o t i o n +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ d e t e c t o r rdesc@conncoll.edu ryan eschauzier 97 860 439 4799
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 19:01:21 +0200 From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool" To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: abbrvtns Message-ID: <199612071706.TAA23871@pepe.online.ee>
> yes, my subject does say FFSSWIA. Is it a new band? Is it a new album? > Can you catch it of toilet seats? No. It simply means > > for fuck's sake stop writing in abbreviations
YES! I just *knew* I was not alone! Bowing in your general direction: here's this Chardonnay for ya I just bought!
How many times have you wondered about TOWHTSTS and thought, "What for flying fuck's sake does this mean?"
raitz
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Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 12:06:24 -0500 From: "Henry D." <ytsefan@iconn.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Toad's Place - *spoilers* Message-ID: <3.0b36.32.19961207120621.0068a9b4@mailhost.iconn.net>
my first post to the jam... but I couldnt resist going into delurk mode for this one...
The Toad's show was *unf*ckingbelievable*. Aside from the fact that they totally oversold the club that is ;)
The new material is really amazing... here are some of my thoughts on each new tune (as much as I can recall)
Burning My Soul - pretty heavy with some cool time changes. The hook (pre-chorus?) is REALLY catchy (Twisting.... turning...) and the chorus features some really thrashy background vocals by Mike...
Just Let Me Breathe - way different than anything they've done so far IMHO. It almost reminds me of a really progressive Extreme tune. It is semi-funky and has almost "Rap-like" vocal lines.
Take Away My Pain - the most powerful and emotional DT song ever. Also almost certain to be "the single" off the album. Musically it is somewhat in the "another day" vein. The verses are piano and clean guitar, and the chorus gets heavier with soaring vocals. The lyrics are very moving, and very personal, and from what I could gather each verse looks at John's fathers passing from a different point of view. The last line of the song ("you took away my hero... now take away my pain") put a lump in my throat.
Peruvian Skies - without question my favorite song. It starts out somewhat jazzy and mellow, but kicks into some amazingly progressive sections. This tune has a "Yes"-epic type feel to it. The chorus features some really cool vocal harmonies w/Mike, John and James.
other brief thoughts on the show in general...
James sounded absolutely incredible. The best I've heard him in the 4 times I've seen them.
The addition of Derek's "more american" style of playing adds some really nice textures to both the new material and the old. Particularly his use of the Hammond organ sounds.
Mike got to return to his role as a lead singer during The Killing Hand (ala Surrounded in Nottingham, England) when James got caught up taking a leak or something... on that note, I really hope Mike and John will continue to sing backup on future tours, it added SO much to their live sound.
The way they put together the set gave the show a real cohesive quality. Almost as though the songs flowed from one to another. It almost had a broadway show type feel the way ACOS started and ended the show.. like they came full circle.. It was also great to see some old material being broken out.. ytsejam rocked my world...
To the guy in front of me taping the show.. I want a copy dude.
enough babbling for now.... you folks going to Birvh Hill are in for a REAL treat!
Henry - ytsefan@iconn.net
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Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 11:24:54 -0600 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: dt shows :) Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961207172454.006e3b3c@mail.inlink.com>
ok, now i know it.. SOMEONE taped one, PLEEEEAAAAASEE PLEASE PLEASE give me the opprotunity to get my hands on one :) please?!!!!!!!! :)
anyways.. just dug out marillion's holidays in eden..... it kind of reminds me of when i was five and driving around the old small town i lived in (decatur illinois... wasnt THAT small, but a good size:) sitting in the passengers seat listening to that radio station that played four songs over and over and they were nice songs like this. i like this cd :)
thanks a mil to carlos for the jpm gif, thats the one i was looking for dude!!!!!! ~Rip
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Date: 07 Dec 96 12:35:47 EST From: Neil Elliott <101352.3261@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Derek v Kevin Message-ID: <961207173547_101352.3261_JHP43-1@CompuServe.COM>
Basically I'm just gonna say, let's just cut the Derek v Kevin comparison Bullshit out right now, before it gets to the tedious overkill proportions we experienced in the past! Kevin's gone, and Derek is the man now. He's a great guy, very talented and has a great sense of humour to boot, and will do things HIS way, and we should respect that and leave him to do so.
Neil Elliott Director - DTIFC **************************************************
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 10:49:16 +0000 From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Derek's interpretation of Kevin's lines... Message-ID: <199612071758.KAA18788@cyberhighway.net>
> I know if I don't disclaim somebody's going to say, "Derek's *not* Kevin. > He's going to interpret the song in his own way." Yeah, and all of you > were trying to do a *variation* on a theme of Stairway to Heaven the first > time you picked up a guitar. Seriously, this is music that has to be kept
> let his contributions to the music live on. There are still hardcore Moore > fans out here. I agree here, but the music must live on. Kevin left. His problem, not DTs. The one real thing that I'm gonna miss about KevMo was his ability to write the most complicated, thematic songs. DT's never given the credits out as to who wrote most of the song when it's all credited to the band, but I'm sure that KM wrote most of Surrounded and Eve as well. I adopted parts of his playing style into my own and I really appreciate the guy. His influence seemed to dwell on a more classical nature while Derek's appears stem from more jazz/fusion stuff. I may be wrong cuz I haven't heard much from Derek, but that jam at the end of take the time on the Awake tour and the Awake Heavy Jam tend to give me an upset stomach. I'm still keeping an open mind about the new album, but it's going to be heavily scrutinized because of Kevin's absence. Nuff Said.
Heheh, I tried to be objective, but damn, I really like KevMo's stuff and to hear that the band thinks that "Kevin's dead" really pisses me off. At least they could wish him well and stuff. Terds. :P
Also, on my shitty bootleg, "Skyway of Nightmares," there's a really kewl instrumental piece that Kevin plays about 2 min. before starting in on WfS, Is this on any other boot. cuz the sound quality on this one sucks. It's like a bunch of German dudes having a screaming seesion into the mic with DT playing in the background. :)
Anyway, I chewn a bit more than I've bitten off...
Later! KorgX3 NOT The "Other" Ibanez (anymore) ibanez@cyberhighway.net "Well, I try to write music that Indiana Jones would listen to." --David Arkenstone
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:23:16 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New Haven (someSPOILERS) Message-ID: <199612071823.NAA25924@ruby.cs.brandeis.edu>
Wow!!! What can I say, they outdid themselves once again... What a show.
Getting there was shitty,m took me 1.5 hours to drive the 15 miles to pick up Skadz, then another hours to pick up everyone else at Riverside, and who knows how much longer to make it another 15 miles, (overall, the 150 mile drive took me over 6 hours) but it was well worth it. We got to Toad's about 10 mins before Rudess & Morgenstein (sorry for any spelling errors there) started... They were incredible, glad to have seen them open insteid of Einstein, although they should also be coo lnext week in Providence (from what I heard after the show, Einstein's singer was in bed w/ a 103 temperature). Talked to Jordan after the show, and he even remembered emailing me a few months ago to put a link from my DT page to his...
Anyway, on to DT... what can I say... incredible. I believe the set list wwas the same as from Poughkipsie (sp?) and was amazing... Another Hand/Killing hand was incredible, although alot of people around me still had no idea what KH was... lots of people who didn't seem to recognize it... The new songs sounded cool, but was difficult to make out some of the lyrics. Peruvian Skies sounds really cool (well, they all do, but that was great)...
I think that Learning To Live is one of my all-time favorite songs, so I was extremly happy to hear that... Metropolis was as incredible as always... I think that Metropolis should be a permanent member of all DT shows... Caught In ??? (the new name for the remix) was sorta strange... took me a few mins to remember that they had re-worked it, and was trying to figure out what it was... I like what they did with ACOS splitting it up into sections... BTW, who else out there yelled out "please don't go" I don't know if I could hear anyone else, but then again, I don't know if anyone else was from here was around me...
Good to meet some other 'Jammers, although there didn't appear to be all that many... probably will be alot more in Providence next week...
Anyway, gone on long enough...
-- +--------------------------------+--------+-------------------------+ | Driven to the margin or error | Rush | Michael Burstin | | Driven to the edge of control | Driven | Brandeis University | | Driven to the margin or terror |--------+-------------------------| | Driven to the edge of a deep, dark hole | Lets go Pens & Steelers | +-----------------------------------------+-------------------------+ For info about Dream Theater, finger mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/home.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 96 19:39:30 +0100 From: Jan Melander <jan.melander@got.wmdata.se> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Derek... Message-ID: <9612071937.AA23478@goethe.got.wmdata.se>
> IMO! (i had to say this first) Derek is AWESOME.. i have several boots >and a live video (py perview) of Awake shows ..and Derek is "most >impresive" .. at least for me ..id go as far as saying he is as good as >Kevin if not better.. i dont know if it has something to do with derek >.but if you listen to the bands "jams" during concerts they sound a lot >more mature than they sound on Live in tokyo or other I&W boots..i like >his style a lot..and his playing is just amazing.. but remember everyone >has their diffrent opinions and tastes..
I have to second Your opinion here, I saw them on the Awake tour and I have a boot from one of the japan shows (Mind Control) and although the keys are a bit low in the mix is great, I can't hear anything different on the old material from what KM played on the Live in Japan vid. (but I guess that there are people outhere ready to flame me on this). But in the jams with the band, the one thogether with JP and in hs solo spot he is amazing, if I should compare Derek with KM I would say that KM is more analytic, "exact" kind of "Classical" in his playing while Derek seems to be more raw, Jazzy/Bluesy and more into improvising. All this is IMHO as a guitar player, ex-keyboard player.
And to help still some of the rant on the list of JLB beeing a bad live preformer, on the Japanese boot I have he is not in good shape and for what I have heard it's from the same show as the PPV video were he had some problems with his throat, but when I saw him on the Awake tour he did a flawless preformance, he was amazing!
Cheers,
--------------------------------------------------------------- Jan Melander WM-Data jan.melander@got.wmdata.se --------------------------------------------------------------- "Until the circle breaks and wisdom lies ahead, The faithful live Awake, the rest remain misled" Innocence Faded - Dream Theater
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Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 15:15:42 -0500 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: dt shows :) Message-ID: <32A9D06E.1616@caribe.net>
RipZero wrote: > > > thanks a mil to carlos for the jpm gif, thats the one i was looking for > dude!!!!!! > ~Rip
hhe no problem dude..!! hey if someone DOES send you a copy ..get in touch w/ me for a trade! hehehe I WISH!
-- We Can Learn from the Past,but those Days are Gone... We Can Hope for the Future,but there may not be One... <Dream Theater: A Change Of Seasons> WowoW Hooo Wowow Hooo Wowow hooooooooo!! -Devin Townsend WoWoW! WoWoW! WoWoW! -Mike Portnoy mailto:calfaro@Caribe.net
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:33:38 -0500 (EST) From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: majesty stuff live Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.961205203601.3837B-100000@frogger.rs.itd.umich.edu>
apologies if you've seen this before....it mighta shown up in the invisible jam 2081....but i didn't see it, so.......
1st things first.....watching a little of the billboard music awards coupla days ago....when chris rock was making his entrance, they were playing STEVE VAI!!!!! over the PAs.......one of the songs offa Fire garden, think it might be blowfish (then again, i got the cassette, and i still haven't figured out which song is which on side one)
second things second.......got the POWER OF OMENS demo tape in the mail recently, pretty good stuff......they got the DT/FW vibe going, with a geoff tatish vocalist......at times they seem to be trying a little bit too hard, and the lyrics don't impress on paper, but its enjoyable music nevertheless.....PERFECT background moozak for reading the book RAMA 2, by arthur C. Clarke and gentry lee (reading recommendation, I'm sure a few of ya might back me up on this one)
oh, and did i mention the demo was FREE?? send mail to progrocker@aol.com to get one for yourself (and if that doesn't work, send me mail and i'll hook you up with the correct addy, not sure if i spelled that correct)
Third: the business at hand: >How many of you have actually seen any of those Majesty-demos live? Were >they ever played? If my Teflon-memory ain't working, Petrucci said >offstage back in -92 that they used to play March of the Tyrant before. I >think he mentioned one more, but it wasn't TooFar, which i like most.
The instrumental 3/no sleep til brooklyn CD that TIm Lodge was selling a while back has a MAJESTY performance on it, w/ chris collins on vocals, and they (obviously) are playing majesty stuff......i didn't see this live ....i was still listening to michael jackson when it was recorded......
if you meant playing majesty demos after they became Dream theater, they tacked on an instrumental March of tyrant to Only a matter of time, as can be heard on WDATU........as has been mentioned between the time i oiriginally wrote this and now.....
Partha Sarathi Mukhopadhyay
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 14:49:16 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2083 Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.961207144800.20921A-100000@colrain.williams.edu>
Friends, where can I get a hold of TSO? I live in BF MA and I don't think any of the stores around here carry it. Can someone coppy it and get it to me before the 15th? Let me know. Be well. M B
"Mary: Why is there evil in the world, Alexandra? Alexandra: To thicken the plot." (On the Verge, )
"The dead are rarely violent." (Shawn Rosenheim, Asst. Prof. Williams College)
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 12:16:18 -0800 From: Ben Laussade <laussade@sprynet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: My Pet Peeve Message-ID: <199612072016.MAA04093@m5.sprynet.com>
Yes, I'm still alive. :)
>I know if I don't disclaim somebody's going to say, "Derek's *not* Kevin. >He's going to interpret the song in his own way." Yeah, and all of you >were trying to do a *variation* on a theme of Stairway to Heaven the first >time you picked up a guitar. Seriously, this is music that has to be kept >in a certain amount of structure. It's just so complicated that we can't >have somebody doing something *completely* different than was originally >intended.
First Rule of Music: There are no rules in music.
By the way....who is included in "we"?
>I just think Derek should can some of the cheeseball riffs >he's throwing into Kevin's old parts.
Did you ever think that he can't know anyone intimately, most of all, a wo...
Sorry. Wrong line. :)
Did you ever think that maybe Derek doesn't care for KevMo's parts? Maybe he's bored with them, and had to think of SOMEthing to do to keep from falling asleep? 32nd notes are cool, btw. :)
>It seemed at Poughkeepsie like Derek couldn't stop playing these 32nd-note >arpeggios everywhere. I mean, if a note stood still for, oh, a whole beat, >he'd squeeze sixty-some-odd notes in that space. Just an arpeggio. At an >otherwise flawless show, it was quite annoying. When Kevin rested on a >note, it was because he was trying to form a melody that worked with the >song.
How do you know what Kevin's intentions were?
>BACKSTABBERS: There is a member of the Jam who has been talking shit about >me behind my back and I don't appreciate it AT ALL!
I'm sorry, Scott. It was me. I told Sally that you liked Jenny, even though I know you're shy about it, I wasn't gonna do it, but Billy gave me his pudding at lunch, and I couldn't let him down, so I told her, SORRY!!!!!!!
WOOSH!!!! <fades into nothingness>
Ben Laussade
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 13:26:27 -0700 (MST) From: "Devil's Plaything" <papined@pr.erau.edu> To: Ytsejam List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: December ST Shows Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961207132431.2001B-100000@moon.pr.erau.edu>
Hey! Any of you lucky schmucks going to the shows over the next few days...
If you get to talk to the band...LET em know how upset the rest of us on the other half of the country are!! Tell them to travel a bit...big recommendation from the rest of us.
I feel pretty secure that I speak for a good number of 'jammers...
Thanks!
L8r
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Here I am...Looking out, looking in My eyes are open, my mind's closed tight FACE THE FEAR I believe I know I need to let go And I know I'm wrong but I think I'm right So I shut you out, and hear what I want to hear Fates Warning And hide in my opinions...afraid to face my fear. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++ THE DEVIL'S PLAYTHING ++ ++ papined@pr.erau.edu ++ ++ David Papineau ++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 15:33:56 EST From: edwilk@juno.com (Ed J Wilk III) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2082 Message-ID: <19961207.153013.4823.0.EdWilk@juno.com>
>It remembers to me something like the song "Brother" from Steve Vai, does >anyone think that the last song on Steve's newest record (fire garden) is >full of filling? that song is great, I dont remember the name but it is the >last one of the CD, does anyone has some Steve Vai live videos? i just have >the videos from Alien Love Secrets and one live song with whitesnake.... >PLease email me something...
The last song on Firegarden is "Warm Regards". I think it's a really good song, the way it closes out the CD. I don't know what you mean by filling. If you mean filler, I'd have to disagree. While it may not be the most intricate song on the CD, I find it very soothing, and the guitar in a certain part (can't remember which, so I won't try) is very good. I love how it goes from "Genocide" (surprisingly, the song that hooked me into buying this phenominal CD) to "Warm Regards". Nope, no SV videos here, sorry.
-- Ed
"Hey, friend I can feel your pain, even heroes cry in the rain..." -SV
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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:03:36 -0600 (CST) From: curth@execpc.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: how "The Mirror" developed Message-ID: <199612072103.PAA16943@earth.execpc.com>
Younis Youssef Hilal sed: >Say WHAT? Mirror was originally a 10-minute song? I've never heard that. >The version of Mirror's growth that I've always seen says that Mirror >started out as "Puppies on Acid," and then they extended it a little >(well, OK, a LOT), and then tacked on "Lie" to the end of it. >Now I'm not sure...which version is right?
The 10 min version was the original way it was meant to be. In issue #3(?) of the I&W fanzine, Neil Elliott had gotten a copy of the Awake demos and he reviewed them (this was well before Awake was released), describing how they sound and how long they were. In the following issue, when Neil was interviewing JP(?) he stated that The Mirror *was* 10 mins long, but that some wanted to take out the middle section and make it into an entirely new song - Mike wanted to keep the change and so they took it to another level and inserted Lie in there. BTW, Lie was originally about 5 min long - my guess is that the way the edit is, is the way Lie originally was. I;ve never heard the demos for wither song, but like I said in my previous post, I would love to hear The Mirror as it originally was.
Scott Hansen curth@execpc.com
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2084 **************************
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