YTSEJAM Digest 2121
Today's Topics:
1) C.C. DeVille
by <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
2) New CD
by Ann M Sutton <asutton2@Bayou.UH.EDU>
3) cc
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
4) Security of lack thereof ;)
by Jason Breitweg <jbreitwe@hep.physics.wisc.edu>
5) resolution!!! everyone who knows me and my cows read!!
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
6) dreamt Irc?
by William T Bajzek <wb2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
7) oops
by Binky <spazzoid@MIT.EDU>
8) Re: Security of lack thereof ;)
by Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com>
9) Savatage Christmas Album, DT background vocals
by Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
10) Negative DT Concert Review
by "Dusty Vestal" <vestal@access.usa.net>
11) Re: Security of lack thereof ;)
by Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com>
12) potty mouth again (Brilliant Observations)
by "woot" <sir@micron.net>
13) my dad
by acook@tiac.net (acook)
14) controversial dt lyrics...
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
15) Re: stan
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
16) I give up
by Flash <bsheehan@black.clarku.edu>
17) TSO acronym
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
18) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2117
by "T. Cudney" <rcudney@ix7.ix.netcom.com>
19) Poison (long and no DTC)
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 01:53:36 +0200
From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: C.C. DeVille
Message-ID: <199612162356.BAA26850@pepe.online.ee>
>brought down an otherwise spectacular set of players - Rikki Rockett
>and C.C. Deville, both of whom I thought were extremely talented.
I've heard that during the "Look What The Cat Dragged In" sessions,
the sound engineer had to show C.C. how to play some chords, because
C.C. simply didn't know himself. :-)
Ever noticed that Bret Michaels's fingers only can move from G to C?
Kotzen was brilliant on Native Tongue, methinks. Somebody described
it as "with his Acoustic Thang, he took the vast majority of
guitarists and shat all over them". Since then, he's a regular in my
Top 10.
raitz
maybe all I need besides my pills and surgery
is a new metaphor for reality
queensryche, "dis con nec ted"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:23:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Ann M Sutton <asutton2@Bayou.UH.EDU>
To: Ytsejam posting address <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: New CD
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.93.961216182227.21079G-100000@Bayou.UH.EDU>
When's DT's new album coming out? Does this really mean there will be a
tour?
Ann
"I was lined up for glory
But the tickets sold out in advance"
- "The Big Wheel," Rush, _Roll the Bones_
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:24:24 -0600
From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: cc
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961217002424.006ce1dc@mail.inlink.com>
>
>I've heard that during the "Look What The Cat Dragged In" sessions,
>the sound engineer had to show C.C. how to play some chords, because
>C.C. simply didn't know himself. :-)
hehe, true, but still, i wouldnt knock him for that.. he IS classically
trained.. went to school and all.. he's just a goof, and he could've been
drunk or who knows what. i dont really dig his frame of mind or playing
anymore, but i sure had fun with it in its time :) gotta respect the guy.
~Rip
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:31:22 -0600
From: Jason Breitweg <jbreitwe@hep.physics.wisc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Security of lack thereof ;)
Message-ID: <199612170033.QAA21749@pawn.ax.com>
Damon> I know at BH, they were really tight on security, after
Damon> speaking to DT's tour manager who told me that security was
Damon> pumped to destroy anybody with bootlegging
Damon> equipment. Chances are that we don't have any boots from
Damon> this mini-tour. Sorry guys, if you got a boot, then you are
Damon> really good at sneaking equipment in, because security was
Damon> tight and they were pumped to mawl anybody.
I guess you weren't at the Strand show then. I could have walked into
that place with a shotgun under my coat and no one would have been the
wiser until I started to blow away the Beth Hart Band *grin* (sounds
like a good idea doesn't it?).
Not that I am implying that I have tapes of the show or anything *evil
grin*.
Hello to Pete, and Curtis from Houston. Thanks for the ride to and
from the Strand. Get in touch with me.
Jason
-- Jason Breitweg --> jbreitwe@hep.physics.wisc.edu, breitweg@amzeus.desy.de http://lobelia.physics.wisc.edu/jbreitwe, http://www-zeus.desy.de/~breitweg "The Gods Made Heavy Metal And It's Never Gonna Die!" - MANOWAR------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:37:06 -0600 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: resolution!!! everyone who knows me and my cows read!! Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961217003706.00707eac@mail.inlink.com>
ok, i thought about it.. and i came up with my newyears resolution,
NO MORE COW LOVING!!!!!!
there you have it people, you thought it would never happen, but as of jan 97 i will HATE COWS!!!!!! that doesnt mean you are rid of my cow sermons, but instead of an occasional "cows rule" it will be "cows suck"
then, as of jan 98, i will return to loving cows again. hehe.
<bows and receeds to the mist> ~Rip
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:40:25 -0500 (EST) From: William T Bajzek <wb2a+@andrew.cmu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: dreamt Irc? Message-ID: <0mhSjt200YUg0vf3A0@andrew.cmu.edu>
what's up with the irc server?
williambajzek|wb2a@andrew.cmu.edu|http://phoebe.dws.acs.cmu.edu/~wb2a/ twobirdsonestoneonechanceisthrowndon'tmakemistakestwothievesstrungupon eknifeonecuttwodoorsoneshutonefightonewayoneroadtotakewestandandwaitfr omcooltowarmfromdusk'tildawnfromfluxtoformkneelingontheroadtograceland
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:52:27 EST From: Binky <spazzoid@MIT.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: oops Message-ID: <199612170052.TAA07088@ringworld.MIT.EDU>
Darn it, I feel like I just flashed a million people by not sending that last e-mail privately. Sorrysorrysorry. back to lurking... *blush* *run* *hide*
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:00:43 -0500 From: Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Security of lack thereof ;) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961216200025.119f62aa@pop3.liii.com>
> >Not that I am implying that I have tapes of the show or anything *evil >grin*. >
Hi Jason,
I've *heard* that you were hooking up with someone who taped a show. Did he tape on DAT. If he did, and you can hook me up with him, I'll gladly give you a copy of Poughkeepsie.
Thanks, Andy
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:09:11 -0600 From: Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com> To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Savatage Christmas Album, DT background vocals Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=GE%l=AMERIDATA/ADNC/000C5734@msb01ncadctmsge.ameridata.com>
Unless Savatage has a new album out, I believe the CD/album asked about is *Dead Winter Dead*, since it's mostly set in Sarajevo in Christmas, 1994, and includes some Christmas carol fragments, and other classical/hymn fragments throughout.
IMHO, I think some background harmonies would make DT music even better. I enjoy the BG vocals on e.g. KX, GC, AO, SG, etc. Not flaming JL in anyway!
And to them's that don't'z like acronyms, betta get uzed to 'em. Its just LtL on the JAM.
I should say everyone's been quite busy posting this last weekend. Sorry if I cover ground in the middle while I try and catch up to today.
Doth quote>>>>>> Anyone at the shows happen to see what kind of kit Mike Portnoy is using? O Is he back with Mapex? Tama? Maxwell House?
Well, if you cross Tama with Mapex, do you get Tampex or Tampax??
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 06:34:13 +0000 From: "Dusty Vestal" <vestal@access.usa.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Negative DT Concert Review Message-ID: <199612170124.SAA10569@postoffice.usa.net>
Hey Jammers: *Please See Below* Well, glad to hear all the positive DT concert reviews. I did pull this review(see below) off of the DT newsgroup and was wondering if anyone else felt this way at the show but was afraid to say anything....Also, please send in your opinions on this guy's review...Take Care......Dusty ************************************* FORWARDED MESSAGE.
I saw the recent DT show at Mulcahy,s in wantagh NY,and to be honest the set was not all that exciting. I love DT especially DADU and I&W but Awake di not affect me in the same way. The songs do not move me as much. The new stuff is even more in that "Awake" style which for me is a letdown. I was actually so bored that I left before the show was over. What furthered my dismay for the new materialwas the horrible live sound they had. Don't get me wrong they are great musicians and they showcased that ocassionally in their new songs but the songs did not stand out at all. Being a musician I listen to the music first and if thats good I probe further into the lyrics and hopefully they are also good ,but new DT didnt inspire me at all. Thats coming from a fan. Petrucci is also a great guitarist and I saw him in aclinic over the summer. He played some of the new material back then and I didnt like them either. His clinic was also average with very sparse doses of his guitar wizardry. The funniest thing at that clinic was that the best songs he played were not DT songs but were music he recorded for a video game.
Personally, That sucks.
later, Kevin
"It is not possible to compress a life's love,learnings,musical desires and dreams into a few moments for all to see ,hear and understand." Allan Holdsworth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:26:58 -0500 From: Andrew Keegan <akeegan@liii.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Security of lack thereof ;) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961216202641.119f715a@pop3.liii.com>
At 05:09 PM 12/16/96 -0800, I wrote:
>Hi Jason, > >I've *heard* that you were hooking up with someone who taped a show. Did he
Serves me right for replying to the jam using Eudora instead of my regular account.
I was just replying to Jason's ;)
As a few people on the jam can tell you. I didn't get a tape of the show since I left my equipment on my kitchen table and didn't realize it till I got to the show. And there was definitely no security.
Anyway- that reply was meant private.
BTW- AL B- Paul Cashman didn't recognize me and he crashed at my place last year.
Andy
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:38:00 -0700 From: "woot" <sir@micron.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: potty mouth again (Brilliant Observations) Message-ID: <199612170143.SAA15962@snowden.micron.net>
I wrote a while back:
>>>I was disappointed when I heard that James says "shit" in one of the >>>new songs. Not that I don't listen to stuff with naughty words in it, >>>but I just always thought DT was above that sort of stuff. DON"T >>>STOOP TO RAP'S LEVEL!!!! whoa sorry about that.
Dave King's very intelligent response:
>he says fuck all the time in the I&W interview.
Um no poop sherlock. That's not my point. My point is, why must you use swear words in a song to show more emotion when you already have a sufficient vocabulary to express it in other ways? Now rappers, I can see why they need to cuss every other word cause most of them don't have more than a second grade education. I do also think that even swearing in interviews is stupid, but in a song, where you have all the time you want to plan out what you are going to say (sing) and try to make the lyrics as clear and concise as possible, why use a word that doesn't mean anything?
I just always thought that DT wouldn't feel it necessary to do something that juvenile. I'm saying that I'll stop listening to them and sell my 20 cds/tapes/vids, but I for one would just prefer that the boys would refrain from using any unnecessary expletives
woot
ps I'm not a momma's boy. I'm sure there are quite a few people that obscene regularly that would agree with me. DT is supposed to be the break from that sort of stuff.
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:51:39 -0500 (EST) From: acook@tiac.net (acook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: my dad Message-ID: <199612170151.UAA21420@zork.tiac.net>
Howdy,
>It feels weird to have him come full circle and buy one of DT's CDs, >especially their heaviest one (no arguments, please!! Just opinion!), >AWAKE. I'm sorry, I just can't see my 50 year old dad headbanging. It's >a weird sight.
Oh yeah? Well my dad fuckin' WENT to the Providence show :) I thought he would make us leave after the sorry performance by the Beth Hart band, but he hung out till the end of DT's set.
Did anybody else at Providence notice the large amounts of teenagers driving around pumping rap music and causing trouble at 1:30am on a thursday in Providence? Seems kind of weird, maybe a Snoop Doggy Dogg show got out at the same time as the DT show.
One more thing, I know somebody out there must have taped one of these 5 shows. I'm specifically looking for Providence, but if you have any of them, email me now or you will be shot. Please.
adam
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:05:23 -0600 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: controversial dt lyrics... Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961217020523.006f3570@mail.inlink.com>
calling the thread of the "profanity" in the new songs, i arise yet another question.. one i'm sure wont happen, but, how would you feel about a parental advisory label on the new disc? interesting that one.. DT and a parental adv. label. i think it'd be kinda cool, but i'm warped :)
~Rip
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 18:42:20 +0000 From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: stan Message-ID: <199612170211.TAA09992@cyberhighway.net>
> The intro to killling hand is normally another hand. however, last night > they used To live forever (instrumentally) as an intro.....JUST LIKE LIVE AT > THE MARQUEE. So, stan, YOU should know your dream theater. you will still > be you tomorrow when you find out that you are WRONG. listen to TLF on > either TSM or Lie single (i forget which one) and you will know what the fuck
Heheh, welcome back and stuff, but I hate to inform you who the wrong one is here. :) Even though Another Hand and To Live Forever sound alot alot (with some keyboard intro sound from Pull Me Under, to boot) the Liner notes regarnd the intro to The Killing Hand on Live at the Marquee to be Another Hand. If you had the Dance of Eternity boot, you'd figure this out. They played To Live Forever (Then just plainly called "Forever"), then later in the show played Another Hand/The Killing Hand. Same as they did it on Live at the Marquee. I wasn't at Birch Hill, but I'm sure if they played TKH, then they played AH before it. Therefore, Stan is right and you are fucked up.
Welcom back! :P
KorgX3 NOT The "Other" Ibanez (anymore) ibanez@cyberhighway.net "Well, I try to write music that Indiana Jones would listen to." --David Arkenstone
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 21:36:01 -0500 (EST) From: Flash <bsheehan@black.clarku.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: I give up Message-ID: <9612170236.AA22602@black.clarku.edu>
I've tried for awhile now to figure it out... What does TSO stand for already?
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:36:55 -0600 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: TSO acronym Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961217023655.00718df8@mail.inlink.com>
At 06:37 PM 12/16/96 -0800, you wrote: >I've tried for awhile now to figure it out... >What does TSO stand for already?
sorry for the clutter of posts, i'll keep it as short as i can, but in case anyone esle wants to know, TSO stands for Trans-Siberian Orchestra... a very cool Christmas album. for more info hit the savatage page, http://www.winternet.com/~savaweb/tso.html i think.
~Rip
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:27:23 -0800 From: "T. Cudney" <rcudney@ix7.ix.netcom.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2117 Message-ID: <199612170327.TAA10295@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com>
> I've said this before, and I'll say it again. STOP thinking that we >are so special and intellectual, just because we prefer DT to Oasis. It's >called Hybris, and you shouldn't be doing that, it's one of the worst >diseases of them all. If you are talking about something that subjective as >music, there can never be any better nor worse. There is one thing called >well-accepted high-standard culture, like operas, the classic paintors or >authors, but in no sense that is better than anything.=20 > And I really doubt all of you are deeply into vanGogh, Dali, Strindberg, >Hemmingway or Nietsche. Guess you all are reading easier litterature, >watching late-shows and soap-operas, liking Beavies and stuff. Misspelling hubris is only the first of your errors. Your most grave mistake is in saying that the only level to the criticism was that DT was better than alterna-crap. A simple statement like that presented by itself deserves to be called nonsense. However, this statement was never said. What was said was that most alternative musicians have little musical skill, or if they do, do not use it. Whereas you are right in saying that 'quality' can not be quantified, that was not the issue. The issue was musicianship. While it may be hard to say who of Steve Morse or Steve Howe (or even Eddie Van Halen!) is a better musician, most people would agree that any of these three is a better musician than someone like Kurt Cobain. (Note: Musician is not the same thing as song-writer or composer! This is vital to make any sense of these debates!) I also take offense at your unsupported slanderous claims that we are all intellectual lightweights(unlike you, no doubt) immersed in pop culture. Freidrich Nietzsche(if you don't learn to spell you will never be respected) happens to be one of my favorite writers. I have never watched a soap opera, and have not watched a late show or Beavis and Butthead in several years. Some DT fans, unlike you, actually have tolerance.
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:34:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Poison (long and no DTC) Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.961216220449.74958C-100000@elk.uvm.edu>
On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
Aw shit!!! I can't believe someone posted this the night before I have a final...oh well, this should be fun. Keep in mind that Poison is my favorite band of all time. That being said:
I was referring to lead vocalist Bret Michaels. I didn't think he was very > talented, back when Poison was a relatively new band and had the potential > to be taken seriously and hang around for another ten albums or so.
First of all, Bret is really talented. He is the first to admit that his vocal range is seriously limited, but he is constantly trying to improve himself from album to album. He's got that sort of Jagger-esque quality: limited, but chock-full of style and personality. But his real contribution to the band is as a song-writer. And second of all, when Poison's first album came out, it was not their intention to be taken seriously. And who's to say that they won't be around for ten albums? They already have seven under their belt (counting "Swallow This Live," the recently-released "Poison's Greatest Hits," and the unreleased "Crack A Smile" w/ Blues Saraceno on guitar, two tracks of which appear on the GH album). Plus they are working on album #8 as we speak with C.C. DeVille BACK IN THE BAND!!! I'd say they're on their way.
I > thought his puckery self smashed all hope of Poison ever going the > distance based on genuine fan support and general respect from the music > world.
Poison is based on genuine fan support. Read the liner notes to "Look What The at Dragged In: "We pledge allegance to our fans, for which this band will always stand." And who who gives a shit about respect in the music world? All that matters is the music itself. Without naming any names, there are some bands currently "respected" that I think are a waste of radiowaves. Incidentally, the reviews for "Native Tongue" were glowing. And just what exactly is "puckery?"
I really think Michaels > brought down an otherwise spectacular set of players - Rikki Rockett and > C.C. Deville, both of whom I thought were extremely talented. (They > probably still are, I just haven't heard anything from them in a while.)
I'll agree that C.C. and Rikki are very talented, but how did Bret "bring them down?"
After seeing them live and hearing solos from both Rockett and Deville, I > started to wonder why Poison didn't have more fans who played instruments > and looked up them. Finding a guitarist at the time (or today) who thought > highly of DeVille was a rarity, the same could be said of drummers and Mr. > Rockett.
Actually, I'm a drummer and Rikki is one of my biggest influences. His use of grace notes continues to blow me away. But they are not a musicians' band and they never claimed to be.
A lot of folks laughed at both them, when the real problem was > not that they couldn't play their instruments but that the sparkly > Brian-Froud-himself-couldn't-draw-better-elves image was too high and > overshadowed much of what they did.
It is only natural that the singer, especially one as photogenic as Bret, would get most of the attention. In fact, I would suspect that in 98% of all bands, the singer is the main focus. As a drummer and a realist, not only am I okay with that, but I expect it.
In my opinion Bret Michaels had more > to do with this than the other three members. (now don't ya'll go thinking > the makeup disappeared because DeVille left the band)
Actually, they were wearing next to no make-up by the time of "Flesh & Blood."
Poison stripping > down and grabbing Richie Kotzen was about as effective in re-vamping their > image as when the New Kids On The Block released "Hangin' Tough." I wasn't > convinced in either case.
I'll agree that "Native Tongue" is not their best album, but it is still a great album and extremely well written. But to compare it to NKOTB is ridiculous. In a four piece band, when one member leaves, especially when that member was as instrumental in the song-writing as C.C., the sound and style is obviously going to change.
Richie
P.S. Although it is always good to find another Poison fan, I think you need to seriously reevaluate your perception of Bret. Just wait until they release their new album with C.C.!!
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2121 **************************
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