YTSEJAM Digest 1231
Today's Topics:
1) The "Vanilla Ice" song.....
by te95mne@student.hgs.se (MIKA NUMMINEN)
2) A little something called integrity
by toscano richard <toscano>
3) Gandalf speaks again
by FNGX01A@prodigy.com (MR JOHN CAHILLJR)
4) Ytseshirt Changes - READ ALL -
by "Trey (T-Stretch) Allen" <tallen@junix.ju.edu>
5) downtunig/Superior update
by Bernd Basmer <basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
6) Re: DT Instrumentals
by "Andrew S. Moore" <amoore@riker.anglia.ac.uk>
7) Threshold-biography
by Kris Claerhout <100522.625@compuserve.com>
8) Petrucci trick (To Live Forever)
by constabl@postoffice.ptd.net
9) So much for moderation...
by Corporate Community Relations <buckley@powdml.ENET.dec.com>
10) Hello! and 7-string...
by "Rick Barkhouse" <015691b@axe.acadiau.ca>
11) The Early Years (Re: YTSEJAM digest 1228)
by babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
12) Adrian Vandenberg (Re: YTSEJAM digest 1224)
by babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
13) no studio version of Bombay Vindaloo
by Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
14) Guitar magazine slams ACOS
by toscano richard <toscano@SDSC.EDU>
15) Re: Thoughts on Ken's Moderation
by "Andrew S. Moore" <amoore@riker.anglia.ac.uk>
16) Re: Ktulu's Aspects of DT
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
17) DT not playing WDADU tunes
by mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
18) IRC Stuff ....
by "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
19) Re: C.Dominici
by Tilman Kuendgen <tiku@rz.uni-sb.de>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:00:53 +0100
From: te95mne@student.hgs.se (MIKA NUMMINEN)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: The "Vanilla Ice" song.....
Message-ID: <199601171155.MAA28761@adeptus.student.hgs.se>
>From: kretschmer@bdt.com (Jon Kretschmer)
>
>Vanilla Ice copied the riff off of some other song, but I cant remember the
>name of the song. Anyone know of it?
The song is the Queen/David Bowie song _Under pressure_....
[Vanilla Ice/Under Pressure is now a closed topic--kbibb]
BTW all you guitarists out there,or rather those who haven't heard Brian
May, you should check out a Queen album, he may not be a "shredder" ,but
man, his got tons and tons of feeling, not to mention one of THE smoothest
tones in the world......
And a word to JASON: I hope you don't start censoring all the threads you
dont like! :-)
Mika
The swedish viking...
PS: All (???) you swedish and finnish jammers out there mail me!!!!! DS!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 13:39:01 PST
From: toscano richard <toscano>
To: 74774.2131@compuserve.com, Guitarmag@aol.com
Subject: A little something called integrity
I was about to make the mistake of purchasing the latest copy of your
magazine when I noticed that, in your description of Reader's Poll winners,
you summed up Dream Theater's "A Change of Seasons" as being
"self-indulgent."
I was deeply disappointed. The parade of hacks that routinely defiles your
covers is bad enough. You manage to glorify ANY guitarist who is in a
popular band, regardless of how obviously and completely inept a musician
such a person might be. But I long ago resigned myself to the fact that when
it comes down to it, you are running a business and you need to address the
popular musicians if you want to sell issues.
Now, though, you have taken your mainstream, flavor-of-the-month ass kissing
to an unacceptably high level. You have added to your charter not only the
celebration of mediocrity but the condemnation of talent and originality as
well. I am sorry that you can't deal with the fact that "A Change of
Seasons" deviates from the hackneyed formula of which you are so fond. I am
sorry that it is a much longer and much more harmonically and rhythmically
rich song than anything you are accustomed to hearing. The fact remains that
"A Change of Seasons" contains some of the best guitar writing I have ever
heard, and in general Petrucci is one of the only guitarists to emerge
recently who truly endeavors to do something creative and meaningful with the
guitar. As with all John's music, "A Change of Seasons" is about
expresssion, not indulgence. For you to jump on the bandwagon and take such
a cheap shot at Petrucci's finest accomplishment is inexcusable.
I believe this to be the final manifestation of your magazine's descent into
the worship of style over substance. At this point you might as well merge
with "Teen Beat." I won't be purchasing any more issues of your magazine
until such time as you decide to salvage the tattered remains of your
integrity and start writing about music again.
Thank you for reading this,
Rich Toscano
7596 Aegean Ct.
San Diego, CA 92126
toscano@sdsc.edu
----- End Included Message -----
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:34:43 EST
From: FNGX01A@prodigy.com (MR JOHN CAHILLJR)
To: Ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Gandalf speaks again
Message-ID: <091.08849911.FNGX01A@prodigy.com>
The last few postings have had something about Dave Mustaine and his
like or dislike for DT. Well back in July 93 I saw DT at the
Manhattan center Ballroom (on the guest list with Kenny Myung no less).
One of the opening acts was Damn The Machine whose founding member was
none other than Chris Poland former Guitarist for Megadeth.
Dave Ellefson was in attendance that night and while DT was on, me
and K.M. asked him what he thought. He said he was floored by their
talent and really liked Myungs bass playing. Kenny relayed the
message to his brother back stage after the show. Just thought you
might care. Oh yeah, I love Labrie's voice as much as the next but I
can deal with Charlie's also. Afterall he was still the singer when I
got WDADU. Also Jim Matheos recently finished a 53 minute song that
will be Fates Warning's next album. I guess the similarities between
ACOS and F.W.'s The Ivory Gate of Dreams was too much for Jim to take.
Yours in haste, Gandalf
P.S. The Japanese translation for QR's QOTR went something like this
"Over and over twigs are flying through your hair, instead of Dreams
of dying fill your head
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 00:48:58 -0500
From: "Trey (T-Stretch) Allen" <tallen@junix.ju.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Ytseshirt Changes - READ ALL -
Message-ID: <9601170548.AA10237@junix.ju.edu>
=====READ EVERYONE CAUSE THERE ARE SOME CHANGES!!!=========
---1st change---
Hey!!! I have decided to make a slight change to the NEW YTSEJAM SHIRTS due
to several suggestions for it...Instead of having the big (and correct)
Majesty logo and DT name on the front, I am going to put it on the back of
the shirts/sweats. This will be just like the back of the YtseCon shirts in
white ink and all. This can be seen on the DT section of my web page:
http://www.ju.edu/UsrWebPages/tallen/home.html
NOTE: This is not the EXACT image that will be on the shirts. This one is a
little rough and the screen print place cleaned it up a ton (ie. looks
pixel-less or not from a computer. I think this one was scanned in w/o the
highest resolution) but it will give you a good idea.
---2nd change---
So, you ask, what will be on the front of the lovely garments Trey?? Well,
I was thinking...since the address for the Ytsejam will be changing soon to
probably ytsejam@ax.com and ytsejam@arastar.com will be just a
weekly/bi-weekly digest form of announcements and other important DT info I
was going to put the ax.com address on the front of the shirts and leave off
the arastar.com address. The front of them will look something like this
(centered across the chest):
--Ytsejam--
Dream Theater's Internet Mailing List
ytsejam@ax.com
I could put both addresses on the shirts if you guys think that would be
better. Ideas??? Suggestions???
=======================PRICES===============================
All garments come in any dark colors (blue, black, red, purple, maroon, navy
blue, royal blue, forest green, etc.) and sizes S, M, L and XL. They will
be printed with white ink.
====T-SHIRTS====
-----50/50 $14 (add $2 for XXL)
-----100% cotton $15 (add $2 for XXL)
=======SWEAT SHIRTS=======
--All sweat shirts are 100% cotton--
-------Non-hooded-------
-----7.5 ounce $18 (add $2 for XXL)
-----9.0 ounce $20 (add $2 for XXL)
------Hooded------
-----7.5 ounce $21 (add $2 for XXL)
-----9.0 ounce $23 (add $2 for XXL)
SHIPPING = Add $3 per item...I know its a lot, but complain to the US postal
service!!!
INTERNATIONAL ORDERS - For those of you not in the US, I am checking on
shipping today I promise...sorry for the delay!! :)
I will throw in a free Majesty sticker w/ every order. They are also sold
separately for $1 a piece (no shipping costs). They are the same design as
the Majesty symbol on my DT page.
===================WHEN????=====================
I MUST HAVE EVERYONE'S MONEY BY THE 3rd of FEBRUARY!!!! THE SHIRTS WILL BE
PRINTED ON THE 5th AND SHIPPING WILL BEGIN ON THE 7th.
================================================
Be sure to include shipping and
Send a GOOD check or money order to:
Trey Allen
453 Tahitian Terrace
Jacksonville Florida 32216
========"If I started at the top and worked my way down, then there ========
would be no reason to live forever..." -Dream Theater-
Trey Allen (T-Stretch) 904-721-1362 Jax. Fl tallen@junix.ju.edu
=========== http://www.ju.edu/UsrWebPages/tallen/home.html ============
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:22:25 +0100
From: Bernd Basmer <basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: downtunig/Superior update
Message-ID: <9601171122.AA29394@krzsun.med-rz.uni-sb.de>
Hi Jammers!
In response to Steve Z's 'downtuning' post in jam 1228 I'd like to say, that
I agree that downtuning doesn't make songs heavier, but it definitely makes
the songs more brutal IMO. We have some songs on our CD that are played in
deep 'D' and some that are played in 'E' or higher tunes and the D-Songs come
on a little stronger than the other songs. I think, it's because of the lower
frequencies that are around when you tune the guitar down and it gives the
songs a touch of - well, I don't want to say a touch of evil but it comes
near to it. It sounds more brutal, I think. And imagine the beginning of The
Mirror with an E-tuning. I think it won't be that brutal as it is with the
7-string. The E-tuning has an other advantage though. I think that chords
sound clearer when the 'normal' tuning is used. Ok. Enough technical babbling
here. :-)
--------------
The other thing I wanted to say here is that there are now 3 WWW-pages where
infos, samples and lyrics of my band SUPERIOR and our CD "Behind" can be
found. The pages are:
http://www.rmi.de/~marvin/superior.html
http://www.whytel.com/users/jskewes/jsmusic.html
http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/~goebel/sup.html
Check them out! It's worth it!
All the best.
Bye.
Bernd.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:35:14 BST
From: "Andrew S. Moore" <amoore@riker.anglia.ac.uk>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: DT Instrumentals
Message-ID: <E8A0D66695@riker.anglia.ac.uk>
> I have recently acquired quite a few bootlegs, and I am curious
> as to the names of some of the instrumentals that they play live.
This goes for me too, what's the name of the instrumental after LSoaD
on Mind Control, and also the Instrumental before The Mirror on the
same boot?
> On with the new and improved jams!
Quite!
Andy (another YtseUKJammer)
------------------------------
Date: 17 Jan 96 07:54:25 EST
From: Kris Claerhout <100522.625@compuserve.com>
To: <ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com>
Subject: Threshold-biography
Message-ID: <960117125424_100522.625_JHB53-4@CompuServe.COM>
Some guys here asked me this The Official Threshold Birography!
Threshold are a band from the London area. They initially formed in November
1988 when Jon Jeary joined the line-up of Karl Groom, Nick Midson and Tony
Grinham who had been working together for some time in various bands. After
releasing several recordings and substantial gigging throughout the UK, the band
started to write songs in a new direction and added damian Wilson, who had
already been recording demoes with Karl, to the line-up in December 1991. In the
Summer of 1992 the band secured a deal with GEP records on the strenght of a
demo of the track Days Of Dearth and spent the rest of the year writing and
recording the album 'Wounded Land', which was released early 1993.
During the recording of the album it was decided that the band wanted the input
of a dedicated keyboardplayer who would enhance this style of music. Richard
West, who had previously played in another band with Jon and Karl, was asked to
join the band and immediately statred to work on tracks for the Wounded Land CD.
Following the release of Wounded Land the reaction to the band's debut CD has
been more than could possibly been expected. Excellent reviews have been
received from magazines all over Europe. After the release of the album in
Japan, singer Damian Wilson left the band, which turned out to be a blessing in
disguise. His replacement Glynn Morgan isn't only a better singer and more
dedicated to the band, he is also an excellent songwriter. In January 1994 the
band did its first european tour as a co-headliner with the Norwegian band
Conception and received rave reviews. Motivated by the sales and the reactions
of the fans they immediately started working on new material.
Shortly before the band went into the studio, they played a big Open Air
festival in Belgium, where they shared the bill with bands like Whitesnake,
paradise Lost, Gotthard, Harem Scarem and Tyketto. This also was the last show
of drummer Tony Grinham, who's wife soon after the gig had her second child and
he decided to devote all his time to his family. As replacement the band quickly
recruited Nick Herradence who had played together with Karl en Richard in other
bands.
The band finished the recording of Psychedelicatessen at the end of September
1994. The material on the new album is heavier and more straight forward than on
Wounded Land, but still got the progressive elements that made the first album
so succesful. The album was released in Germany in November 1994, where it
picked up rave reviews and the advance sales were over 5000 within the first
week. In Holland Psychedelicatessen even became album of the month in the
prestigious Aardschok magazine. Unsatisfied with the drummer situation, the band
replaced Nick Harradence after his first show with the band in february 1995.
Replacement was soon found with the 18 year old Jay Michicce, who's fast
double-bass drum playing added a new dimension to the sound of the band. To
promote the new album the band recorded a video for the track 'Innocent'. A 25
date european tour with the american band Psychotic Waltz took place in May
1995. In June the band was out touring again, this time with Dream Theater, the
worlwide leading band of their genre and went down an absolute storm in front of
the very critical Dream Theater-fans. To coincide with this tour Threshold
released a Mini-Live-Album called 'Livedelica', which represents the songs they
played on their tours this year.
That's it! I heard from the band they are recording the new album right now and
the former albums will be released in the States shortly.
Kris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:18:37 -0500
From: constabl@postoffice.ptd.net
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Petrucci trick (To Live Forever)
Message-ID: <199601171318.IAA14770@ns1.ptd.net>
To whoever posted about the harmonics during the solo in "To Live Forever"
I read your post on the "jam" and figured I'd reply.
You can do this "trick" by sliding your right hand finger (any one will do)
down the strings starting by the bridge (don't push hard on the strings,
only as hard as you would finger harmonics) while simutaneously pulling off
4th fret to 2nd fret to open on the G string, hammer 4th pull off to 2nd, etc.
-p-p-h-p-p-h-p-p-h-p-p---------------- p = pull
-------------------------------------- h = hammer
4-2-0-4-2-0-4-2-0-4-2-0---------------
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
You don't need to tap anything with your right hand, only slide it gently
down the strings past the pickups and you should get this effect.
Marc Contrady
constabl@postoffice.ptd.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:41:34 EST
From: Corporate Community Relations <buckley@powdml.ENET.dec.com>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: So much for moderation...
Message-ID: <9601171438.AA06679@us2rmc.zko.dec.com>
Sadly, I see the moderation of the Ytsejam digests was short lived.
*sigh*
>>find the dates through the internet of the Maiden/Factory show?
>>Wasn't it 'Under Pressure' ?
------------------------------
[sig trimmed]
Happy rails, ....
Buck, w/full sig now that the rules are gone .++++++++.\
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:42:16 AST4ADT
From: "Rick Barkhouse" <015691b@axe.acadiau.ca>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Hello! and 7-string...
Message-ID: <33B6110106@axe.acadiau.ca>
First I'd like to say Hi to everybody, this is my first time posting to the
Ytsejam. I'm a keyboard player who's really in to Dream Theater. I'm in
what some would call a progressive metal band named (ahem) Prozac (I know,
it's cheezy). Actually, were sort of locked into the name, because people
who heard about us two years ago want us to play under the same name.
Anyway, I have a question for all you DT experts out there. Since ACoS was
supposed to be on Images & Words, does this mean that JP was using a 7-string
back in the I&W days? If he was, I wonder why there were no songs on I&W
that used it. Any thoughts? Well, that's all for now. [Note the absence of
a cliche DT lyric sig :) ]
Rick Barkhouse 015691b@axe.acadiau.ca
"Always keep your friends close, but keep your enemies
closer." - Deep Throat, "The X-Files" R.I.P.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:26:44 -0500 (EST)
From: babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: The Early Years (Re: YTSEJAM digest 1228)
Message-ID: <v01510105ad227eca252e@[137.238.26.12]>
>Its kinda dumb that they don't want to play any songs off of the first album
>because its 8 years old. [deleted]
Although I can understand your disappointment, sometimes you just have to
respect where they are coming from as a band, etc. I look back at poetry
that I wrote in high school and I think to myself "Man, how could I write
stuff like this?" "I don't even feel like I can relate to it now". Things
have a way of evolving. I don't think that they have forever tabled these
songs - they may appear in a show every now and then, making them that more
special. Plus you figure, on this 'jam alone they will be alive and well
on boots.
-BABS
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:36:27 -0500 (EST)
From: babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Adrian Vandenberg (Re: YTSEJAM digest 1224)
Message-ID: <v01510106ad22827a0315@[137.238.26.12]>
>Hi I'm looking for DT fans located in the Netherlands. [deleted]
Hi Erik. Seeing your post reminded me of something. Does anyone out there
know what happened to Adrian Vandenburg???????? Is this guy working with
any bands?
What became of him?
-BABS
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 10:37:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Kyle Mallett <krm95g@timon.acu.edu>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: no studio version of Bombay Vindaloo
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.960117103602.22464A-100000@timon.acu.edu>
Bombay Vindaloo on Guitar For the Practicing Musician Vol. III. There
isn't one. It's the same version as is on Live at the Marquee.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:43:50 PST
From: toscano richard <toscano@SDSC.EDU>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Guitar magazine slams ACOS
Message-ID: <9601171743.AA06424@vector.sdsc.edu>
Hello-
John Petrucci tied for runner-up as the year's best guitarist in
Guitar for the Practicing Musician's Annual Reader's Poll. Van Halen won,
and Satriani tied with JP for runner up. It's good that JP is getting
recognition, BUT... the punks at Guitar said something along the lines (I am
going by memory cuz I wasn't going to buy that rag) of being surprised JP did
so well (and thinking that Satch would have pulled ahead if his album came
out earlier) because John's only offering of 1995, ACOS, was "a trifle
self-indulgent." This really pissed me off - it's bad enough that they
always sing the praises of crappy (but popular) guitarists - now they have
decided to start ripping on the good ones if the good ones ever play
something that's not simplistic enough for them! Anyway, I noticed that
Guitar magazine had not one but two email addresses, so I put on my asbestos
skivvies and flamed away. I have included my message to them here - please
make a note of the email addresses to which it is addressed, and send these
blithering idiots a note telling them what you think!
Regards,
Rich
----- Begin Included Message -----
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:52:36 BST
From: "Andrew S. Moore" <amoore@riker.anglia.ac.uk>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Ken's Moderation
Message-ID: <EEEB2156D0@riker.anglia.ac.uk>
> Just thought I'd give my [currency removed] on [moderator's name removed]
> [deleted]
heheheheheheheheheheh!!!!!!!!!!!
that was classic!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:04:20 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: Re: Ktulu's Aspects of DT
Message-ID: <v01530501ad212c04b709@[199.232.46.229]>
> What aspect of Dream Theater music is it that you like?
Hey, this'll be fun and K. Bibb didn't tell us not to reply so...
I was at Berklee and a friend picked up a new album (WDADU). He and I are
big Rush fans and he told me to listen to it. It sounded "like Rush, but
heavier" so I ran out and got it. What draws me to it now is the complexity
of the music without sounding too complex (does that make sense?). I mean,
I can listen to it passively and just dig it or I can analyse it and find
all kinds of cool things that are happening. That's what I really like
about it. Yeah, there are odd times and weird riffs, but they don't stand
out as such - they just mold together to make a great song. I think The
Mirror has the most obviously "wierd" thing happening but it doesn't bother
you unless you decide to pay attention to it.
--Marc R
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:05:46 -0500
From: mer@sol.iii.net (Marc Respass)
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: DT not playing WDADU tunes
Message-ID: <v01530502ad212d951514@[199.232.46.229]>
> I can't think of any off hand, but a lot of bands still play
> old songs
Rush still plays some stuff off "Rush" which came out in '74.
Maybe Derek was feeding ya'll a line and the real reason is that he doesn't
know the tunes :). I think an even more probable reason is that DT just
doesn't have time to play the stuff from the latest (being promoted) album
and WDADU tunes. They end up doing the most popular stuff. Besides, WDADU
is out of print so they go and play some of our favorites then people try
to buy the album with that song on it and it's not available.
--Marc R
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:11:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com
Subject: IRC Stuff ....
Message-ID: <199601171911.OAA05397@wicked.stigmata.org>
Hey All!!!!
First, let me thank all of you who have been coming to IRC on a
normal basis. It's great to talk to everyone every night in real time. I
know I am idle half the time, but I do have a job to worry about and I like
to try and have a social life sometimes ;)
I also know that a lot of people have stopped by in the afternoon and
early evening and find noone around and leave right away. Well, the best
time to find people around is later in the evenings. Usually after 9PM EST
or so. Usually there are people there from then til all hours of the night.
Just a tip.
The point: I wanna try and get a weekly meeting going on IRC where
everyone can come and talk and not just people who are always on. So, the
question I ask to all of you is what is the best days and times to meet for
you? Please mail me what you think, so we can try to get things going. DO
NOT POST ANSWERS TO THE JAM!!!!! PLEASE SEND THEM TO ME PERSONALLY.
Hope to hear from you all soon,
Skadz
-- | Ryan P Skadberg skadz@bluesky.net | | http://www.bluesky.net/skadz/ http://www.dreamt.org/ | | ******* KEN BIBB WASN'T HERE ;) ******* |------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:15:30 +0100 From: Tilman Kuendgen <tiku@rz.uni-sb.de> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Re: C.Dominici Message-ID: <199601171915.UAA12475@sbusol.rz.uni-sb.de>
>Dominici [deleted] Anyone know what he is doing now? Is he in a band?
It seems that he is in a new band now, called Oblivion Knight. I recently got to hear a song off of their demo tape. Sounded like interesting prog metal, with obvious Watchtower influences (Well, can't tell much, it was just one song)
===================================================================== Tilman Kuendgen --- tiku@rz.uni-sb.de ...half human, half mail... Traders! Take a look at my music list at: http://stud.uni-sb.de/~tiku
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1231 **************************
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