YTSEJAM Digest 1672
Today's Topics:
1) THE LOST TREASURES OF THE MAJESTY DEMOS
by Uncle.Dave@asu.edu
2) Read: RE: Re-creating K.Moore
by Gregory Slang <xanadu@buttercup.cybernex.net>
3) Ingredients for Prog Metal
by CNG@tcco.com
4) ASDF (WWW generated email)
by BILLY FAHRBACHY <ROB@EROLS.COM>
5) Subject: Subject: Subject:
by Mike <syrinx@dreamt.org>
6) Read: Re-creating K.Moore
by Rick Beem <rbeem@kiva.net>
7) Read: RE: Re-creating K.Moore
by Christopher Onjian <clo4748@hertz.njit.edu>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1670
by ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
9) Elektra Site (Was: Look what I found)
by Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
10) Read: RE: Re-creating K.Moore
by Mark Metzger <mmetzger@bostech.com>
11) Superior
by Dave Silva <silva@physci.psu.edu>
12) Bach Again....
by btomko@main.glasscity.net
13) Evolution part II ( and final part)
by BLevy@aol.com
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1670
by Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 18:24:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Uncle.Dave@asu.edu
To: THE PROUD FANS OF DREAM THEATER <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: THE LOST TREASURES OF THE MAJESTY DEMOS
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960706181716.23688A-100000@general2.asu.edu>
i was wondering if anyone knows a way to get a copy of the majesty demos
(petrucci, myung, portnoy, collins). for those of you who don't know
"majesty" was the dt's name before cd did the vocals. if you have any
information, please e-mail me privately. l8r!
DON'T LET YOUR BRAIN TAKE A VACATION...IT MIGHT LOOSE ITS LUGGAGE!!!
"She can turn a drop of water into an ocean"
---Dream Theater
The Music and The Man Behind it:
____ ____ ___ ___ ____ ____ ___ ___ ____ ____
/ \ // / \ / / / // \ // \ /_ / / / \ /
/---- \/ /----/ \ /---- / /---//---- \ // \ /\ / /---- \
/____ / /____ \____// / / //____ \/ \____// \ / /____ / \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:06:45 -0400
From: Gregory Slang <xanadu@buttercup.cybernex.net>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Read: RE: Re-creating K.Moore
Message-ID: <01BB6936.5BA7E1A0@cnj1-196.cybernex.net>
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%````*GT`
`
end
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 96 21:37:29 EDT
From: CNG@tcco.com
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Ingredients for Prog Metal
Message-ID: <vines.3hH8+7DlrlA@tcx.tcco.com>
What do you guys consider the most important component for a "great"
progressive metal band? The guys in my office refer to the music that
eminates from my office as "high-pitched squeals over noise". They can't
believe guys can sing that high.
I think having a guitarists and keyboardist who can play off each other (like
sparring partners) is key. What I think makes DT different frrom the average
metal band is that they aren't always trapped into playing in A-minor or
E-minor in every song just to sound heavy.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:38:04 -0400
From: BILLY FAHRBACHY <ROB@EROLS.COM>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ASDF (WWW generated email)
Message-ID: <199607070338.XAA05727@nermal.catt.ncsu.edu>
OK, IM NOT SURE WHAT IM SUPPOSED TO
WRITE HERE. ILL JUST SAY, OF COURSE
THAT DT RULES. ID LIKE TO KNOW IF
ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE
RUMORED RUSH AND DT TOUR? ALSO DOES
ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANY LOCAL
DT SHOWS ON LONG ISLAND?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:43:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike <syrinx@dreamt.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Subject: Subject: Subject:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960706233504.11798A-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
..and out comes Syrinx from his mighty domain!@
Hello, one and all. Syrinx here to say howdy to the ytsefreaks (please!
don't feed the ytseanimals!@) and to look upon you, my huble subjects. :)
So, as some of you may know, King Crimson will be coming to the
East Coast this August. To those of you who are going to the Asbury Park,
Baltimore or Philadelphia shows, please e-mail me. I shall be there..for
free, since i will be working with Discipline Global Mobile/Possible
Productions for the tour. EAT YOUR HEART OUT SKADZ!@ :)
So, let's see what's new with me. Hmm! Well, I got a neat-0 Dream
Theater bootleg <The Dance of Eternity> as well as a host of other stuff.
As for those of you <...and you know who you are@!> who don't like Asia,
let me make a final statment:
Go out and by "Arena". Now.
Why? It rocks just so hard, it's scray. No, John Wetton, Steve
Howe NOR Carl Palmer are on it. What it is, however, is the best album
the newer Asia (Led by Geoffrey Downs and John Payne) has put out. If you
like progressive modern rock, then find it and get it..or just ask me to
tape it for you. :)
Other news! Hmm. Let's see. Well...umm...eh, fuck it. Not much
Dream Theater stuff going on and i don't feel like getting into debates
that..well, to be perfectly honest, suck. You ever notice that if you
stay with a girlfriend for a while <i mean days straight, mind you> you
get really tired? Well, that's me: the tired ytsefreak. :(
/me gets pillow ready and goes to bed.
Syrinx has spoken, so it shall be law.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 23:10:25 -0500
From: Rick Beem <rbeem@kiva.net>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Read: Re-creating K.Moore
Message-ID: <01BB6B90.91D775E0@xyplex1-1-3.intersource.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 00:51:10 -0400
From: Christopher Onjian <clo4748@hertz.njit.edu>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Read: RE: Re-creating K.Moore
Message-ID: <01BB6B9E.976B0A40@ppp-228-118.njit.edu>
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end
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 03:08:50 -0400
From: ai292@freenet.carleton.ca (Gordon McFee)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1670
Message-ID: <199607070708.DAA02135@freenet2.carleton.ca>
>>Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway: This one took awhile to get used
>>to but it has grown to be one of my favourite Genesis albums. Needless to
>>say I've bought as many of their albums as possible since.
>
>You too? Damn... I bought just about every Genesis album (before 1980)
>without ever having heard a note from the album. I was pretty damn
>impressed with them and I just kept buying and buying... until I had
>bought them all. (shucks)
Well Wind & Wuthering didn't move me (at first, now I love it) and
I waited a long time for Foxtrot but essentially the same story :).
>I'm still waiting for the "BoxSet #1" to come out... I can't wait to get
>2 discs worth of Live Lamb. ;)
No kidding. Mind you when it takes Genesis five years to put out
an album... yeesh.
>i was this mucho cool metal shop i found out about just a few days back
>and i found the DT Tx3 single for 5 bucks.... granted nothing of any
>listening value is on it... 2 tracks- TTT edit and TTT... but mainly
Lucky.. the only single I (will) have is a Silent Man single I ordered
for 13$ US :)... there don't seem to be too many floating around.
> Here's how it works. Until LABOR DAY, you can order any of my $25
>discs at a price of $20. Original shipping prices still apply... free to
>the USA, etc. Critical Mass is well on its way to selling out, and I'm
>already in an argument over that on alt.music.rush, and the sale price on
>that item will be $45. (I don't save as much on a double).
The a.m.r. people are being real pricks (sorry 'bout the
language). Then again, from my participating in the newsgroup I can safely
say that most of us ARE pricks :).
>Here are the CDs available and the number remaining of each:
>Dream Theater "When Dream And Today Unite" - $20 - ~250 remaining.
>Dream Theater "Antiquities" - $20 - ~70 remaining.
>Dream Theater "Scenes From A Memory" - $20 - ~250 remaining.
>Rush "Critical Mass" - $45 - ~200 remaining. Shipping to begin MONDAY.
>Tori Amos "Inside The Storm" - $20 - Currently in pre-ordering. 500 discs.
>
> Unless you're going to order Antiquities, there's really no need
>to reserve any of these since I have quantity remaining. Send your order
>to me at:
>
>Mike Bahr, 3175 N. Price Rd. #1066, Chandler, AZ 85224
<Pushing it>.. does that mean Critical Mass/Precious Things etc.
will be worth less on my credit? Just curious, that gets me 5$ away from
another CD out of the deal (45-20-20-15 rather than 50-25-25)
> Happy Independence Day... both USA _and_ Canada!
Not much of an Independance Day for us to celebrate unless you
mean the movie :).
>will. Well, here goes with my observation of who's on top and on the bottom
>of this pecking order.
>
>King Crimson
>Yes
>Genesis
>Rush
>Marillion
>Queensryche
>Dream Theater
>Other unknown prog bands
You forgot Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Gentle Giant and a couple
other OLD bands that are rated highly for nostalgia's sake.
The funny think about this is that there is no reason for a
pecking order.. 25 years ago people said Yes was pretentious and
self-indulgent. A few years later this was said about Rush (esp.
Hemispheres). Still later about Dream Theater. The fact is that most of
these bands ARE pretentious to a certain degree, esp. the ones at the very
top of the pecking order.
BTW I saw this debate before, but what about Jethro Tull as
progressive? Opinions?
>One thing that I also observed is that the pecking order is based on the
>years have been on the "prog scene"
>I must state that none of these rankings support any of my personal rankings
>of these bands.
The other interesting this is that Yes fans have this amused
conceit with regards to Rush, as to Genesis fans with regards to
Marillion, etc. It seems the older fans obviously feel threatened by the
newer groups and colour their judgements accordingly.. of course "You can
twist perception, reality won't budge" and the smart people figure out
that it's all the sames hit in the end. Myself I can listen to Dream
Theater or ELP and like it just as much...
>Hmm, I'm not sure how accurate this is. Based on my observations of
>rec.music.progressive, I'd say you've got Crimson in the right place, and
>maybe Yes and Genesis, but not the others. There are a lot of the "unknown"
>bands (Gentle Giant, Van der Graff Generator, PFM [and a bunch of other
>Italian bands, too], etc.) that would rate near, if not on the top of the
>list.
Ah, yes, the love of progressive fans to put unknown music at the
top. This is, I guess, for the same reason that paintings of vaginas are
hailed as genius and sell for millions. I guess I just don't "get it" :).
-- "To seek the sacred river Alph, and walk the caves of ice..." - Rush "Ashes and Diamonds,Foe and Friend/We were all equal in the end." -Pink Floyd "The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change." - Genesis "Others steal your thoughts they're not confined within your mind"-DreamTheater------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 10:46:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Elektra Site (Was: Look what I found) Message-ID: <199607071446.KAA03679@ruby.cs.brandeis.edu>
> From: UMJG72D@prodigy.com (MS ANNA M STIGLIC) > Subject: look what i found! > > hey all you ytsejammers...i was browsing the web and happened across > a little problem at the Elektra Home Page...well, it seems that they > have the artists listed, and DT is there, so i clicked and it whisked > me away to their page (courtesy of Elektra). on this page, it lists > several web sites related to DT, one of which is an address for those > fans who wish to subscribe to the Ytsejam...only it sends it to the > arastar.com address. this might be causing some of the confusion > with subscription, and if it isn't now, who's to say it won't later > on? well, i myself am NOT, in any way, shape or from, very computer > literate, so i have NO clue how to handle this slight > misunderstanding. would someone please contact someone that can help > this? it might prevent future confusion on the 'jam...(http://www. > elektra.com) > just a concerned jammer... >
Unfortunatly, not even worth the effort to try to get them to change this page.. They have an incorrect link to my page (an address that was outdated before they even listed DT). I emailed them to correct it, 5 months (don't know if that is exact, but a VERY long time later) they emailed me back telling me that they will correct it... that was about 3 months ago (at least) and the address is still incorrect. It seems as if they really don't care about making the pages correct, even when they have the info to fix it...
-- +----------------------------+---------------+---------------------+ | We can learn from the past | Dream Theater | Michael Burstin | | But those days are gone +---------------+ Brandeis University | | We can hope for the Future | A Change Of +---------------------+ | But there may not be one | Seasons | LET'S GO PENS | +----------------------------+---------------+---------------------+ For info about Dream Theater, finger mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/home.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 10:52:04 -0400 From: Mark Metzger <mmetzger@bostech.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Read: RE: Re-creating K.Moore Message-ID: <01BB6BF2.568D9E80@meridian.btrd.bostech.com>
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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 11:16:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Silva <silva@physci.psu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Superior Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9607071151.A5512-8100000@gaff>
Just a plug for Superior. Have listened to it only a couple of times, but it appears to be quite good. I especially like the second song, Why. If you have the opportunity I would definitely suggest you pick this one up.
Dave
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Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 11:45:18 -0400 From: btomko@main.glasscity.net To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Bach Again.... Message-ID: <B0000195085@home.glasscity.net>
J.S. Bach died 20 years before Beethoven was born. Please reply to this part to me, not the list. (as if you're going to listen to that) What is the tracking to "All the World's a Stage" and is Cygnus X-1 off "Hemispheres" part of a series? What else is in the series? I feel stupid asking this because I've been a die hard Rush fan for five or six years. Mark spector@dreamt.org -or- btomko@main.glasscity.net
"How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?" -Calvin "Don't look into car headlights and freeze, because you'll either get run over or shot." -Hobbes
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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 12:58:05 -0400 From: BLevy@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Evolution part II ( and final part) Message-ID: <960707125805_150480896@emout15.mail.aol.com>
OK, I am a bit behind in my jams, but I feel compelled to finish my thoughts of about a month ago during the dreaded Metallica thread. While it was that band that intiated the thoughts, I believe the subject has wider appeal; especially since my Green Day/DT comparison spawned it's own thread.
I was saying that bands tend to Evolve into popularity, and in the process, their songs tend to shrink, and become more radio friendly. I used Rush and Yes as an example, but I in no way meant that THEY sold out. I meant to use them as an illustration that while these bands have made superlative music all along, it was not until the songs shrank that they became 'popular'. Now I see several reasons for this.
When a band becomes as popular as even DT is now, you get to what I see as a plateau. From there you either ascend or descend or stay the same (duh!). But the direction you go depends on the direction you WANT to go. If DT continued to produce 20 minute songs, I believe they would go nowhere. THey are compelled by the market to produce SOME radio friendly songs. This is in no way selling out, this is marketing, and I am quite sure the boys can produce Grade A short songs (look at AWAKE). Some bands take this a bit too far, maybe intentionally. But just because a band like Metallica decides to make an album of 'radio fodder' ( no opinion implied), does not mean that the band is history!!!! I bet you any amount of money that they STILL Kick ass live.
Another reason Popular bands tend to shorter songs is possibly they are more focused (Rush, Yes). It is not impossible to start with a long piece, and through many production sessions, and stuff, come up with a much shorter version of that. I would believe that this is a function of the producers. Which leads to reason 3..
Bands are always changing producers. When they are realtively UNpopular, they tend to use who they want, and the producers are not your Bob Rocks ( not that that is a BAD thing..), but after a while, the BIG producers either hear the band, meet the band, or are searched out by the band, and you get a new producer who knows what popular radio wants and are able to get the band to do that.
Now, about popularity, I think the person who said something about the 'average' listener's laziness was right on. I would only add to that the fact that ANYTHING that you hear 10 times in a week is going to dig into your brain to some degree. If you listen to the radio, you know what I am saying. Especially on the deceased 104.3 here in NY, Now I like that station as much as the next guy, but it was extremely repetitive!
A couple of other quick things and I will head back to my little corner.
I like NIN, KMFDM, Oasis, And a lot of other 'alternacrap' as well as some Prog music. Get a grip people and live and let live!
I have only bought a few CD's unheard, all referals from the JAM. Echolyn, ATW, not my cup o tea, but OK. Magellan, IA, more in the right direction, but too gimicky. and Fates Warning, Paralells, definately the right track, any other albums by them I should get?? And I have just ordered a "Death" cd from, get this, Columbia House, we'll see about that one.
Can someone please e-mail me info on Derek's B-day bash. I am not familiar with the place it is being held at.
MANY thanks to the moderator of the JAM for putting up with a lot of BS. I know how hard it is just to keep up READING these things, can you imagine what it takes to edit them?????? Thanks again for trying to keep CONTENT #1 and trying to stem the flow of soap operas ( they WERE entertaining, some of them).
That's all for now, sorry for the length, but I promise not to post like this often!
Brian (I like this sig, so I am stealing it, sorry)
Now listening to -----Marillion-B-sides Themselves
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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 13:56:01 -0400 From: Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1670 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960707135628.212769de@access.mountain.net>
At 12:14 AM 7/7/96 -0700, Gordon McFee wrote: > BTW I saw this debate before, but what about Jethro Tull as >progressive? Opinions?
Yeah, I think a good deal of people consider Tull prog. In fact, a while back there was a top 50 prog albums of all time survey done on alt.music.prog (the forerunner to r.m.p.), and Tull collected 2 spots with _Aqualung_ and _Thick as a Brick_, can't remember the rankings, tho'. Likewise, _I&W_ is on there, but I can't remember where. Ah hell, I'll just go get the list and send it.
> Ah, yes, the love of progressive fans to put unknown music at the >top. This is, I guess, for the same reason that paintings of vaginas are >hailed as genius and sell for millions. I guess I just don't "get it" :).
I'm not quite sure what you mean hear. Surely you're not saying that great music=great sales? God knows, we've been down that path before. :) BTW, if vagina paintings are genius, then how about the dude who cut a cow and called it art? (No, there is no punchline)
Jonathan Byrne rael@access.mountain.net http://access.mountain.net/~rael/jdbhome2.htm West Virginia University College of Law ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Any major dude with half a heart Surely would tell you my friend, Any minor world that breaks apart Falls together again." -"Any Major Dude", Steely Dan
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1672 **************************
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