YTSEJAM Digest 1712
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Savatage
by Sava Web <savaweb@winternet.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1709
by Ytse-Kain <kain@caribe.net>
3) What's that clicking noise?
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
4) wtf?
by Mike <syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
5) DA gets an EOJ, & that damn Jam RAM cram (No Underwear Content)
by hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal)
6) More on Clicks
by FMTG05A@prodigy.com (MR ANTHONY L SCIAMANNA SR)
7) RE: Clicks
by "Susan " <spatz13@msn.com>
8) RE: YtseBytsePuns
by "Susan " <spatz13@msn.com>
9) mIRC and Words II...
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
10) Van Halen.....Clicks...Iron Maiden.........Golf?????
by "Frank Benenati" <mojonet@pb.net>
11) Some guy named Varney...
by Imxtnit@aol.com
12) RE: New Bands
by Leinonen Juha <Juha.Leinonen@birdy22.utaj.fi>
13) CD update
by Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com>
14) clik!
by akyuz@ltp.dmx.epfl.ch
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:12:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sava Web <savaweb@winternet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Savatage
Message-ID: <199607240412.XAA04367@parka>
Gordon asked :
>
> How does Dead Winter Dead compare to the other Savatage stuff? I
> got it, and it was ok.. decent storyline, hokey ending. Not terribly
> exciting musically either. Just wondering if some of the other stuff is
> better.
>
I am sorry that you took it that way. I personally feel that Dead Winter
Dead is their all time Best work. I really got into the music on DWD
quickly, liked the concept (since this was written and record before the
media paid it any attention, hell they don't even mention it now), the
talent and variety on the album is immense.
Their other Complete concept album is "Streets: A Rock Opera", altough if
you didn't like DWD, this one is up in the air.
Most of their other albums the songs have concepts behind them but are not
related to all the other songs.
If you like clean talented guitar work with piano interludes you might
like Edge of Thorns.
For a more complete discription and album reviews check out the Savatage
page listed in the sig.
We have recently posted a very indepth review of Handful Of Rain.
later,
nathan bradley
savaweb@winternet.com
http://www.winternet.com/~savaweb/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:15:52 -0400
From: Ytse-Kain <kain@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1709
Message-ID: <31F5A378.66A6@caribe.net>
hell i've heard a lot about Clockwork too! how do i get some of their
work?
-- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | "Best way to love anything, is keeping in mind you might lose it." | | "Spread before me is my soul, I'm learning to live." Dream Theater | | | | Visit the official page of the world's best band, Dream Theater at | | http://www.rsabbs.com/dt | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:38:55 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu> To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: What's that clicking noise? Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9607240030.J18449-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
Must be the clock counting down my patience.
> From: Ryan P Skadberg <skadz@stigmata.org> > Subject: Hmmmmmm........ > > I guess they asked for some ideas and this is somthing they put > on their site: > > We want to thank everyone for their feedback so far. It's been great > getting all of your letters ( yes, we actually read all of the mail!).
etc etc. That message has been there for at least two months now. Don't get your hopes up. :)
----
> From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> > Subject: stuff that sucks > > > Unfortunately....my band was filled with people that share this > >stupid pride about clicks... > > Because they never sat down and truely learned rhythm.....they > >couldn't play with a click.....so they responded " See???? It doesnt > >work!!!" > > M O J O, time to ditch those bandmates :)
Don't worry. He doesn't have to deal with the rhythmless one anymore.
----
> From: Mithrandir <mithrandir@pb.net> > Subject: Various things > > My two cents on the click thing: When I recorded the demo with > D-man, and Mojo I was not asked to play to a click. If I had been I could > have. One thing my drum instructor stressed was playing to a metronome,
Had I been asked then, I would have tried it. I wasn't asked, however, till the second demo with a different drummer. As good a drummer as Sean is, and as well as we locked with each other, he couldn't play to a click. Oh, well. Nothing was lost, except a nine-year friendship and musical partnership. No biggie.
> which I learned to do. My timing, however has a tendency to flow somewhat > more live. As for bands that have not used clicks, try Iron Maiden, and Led > Zep. If you tried to put a click to either one of those bands the click > would break. Does that mean that the music sucked? No way!
Hear, hear!
> Wedge, when we recorded Walls, you, me, and Frank all played the > basic rythm tracks together, and added stuff later. Don't you remember the > frustration? Also some bands(namely RUSH, and Fates Warning) use clicks live
Yeah, but it also only took two takes per song to get it right.
> on some songs. Watch the video from Grace Under Pressure, and you'll see > Neil playing to a click on The Weapon, and Red sector A. Mark Zonder used it > extensivly when I saw FW. Oh yeah, I would not say that "three chord rock is > what made me the musician I am now" too loudly.
THREE CHORD ROCK IS (a substantial part of) WHAT MADE ME THE MUSICIAN I AM NOW.
Just to avoid further misunderstandings, in case any of my other best friends have subscribed, and my back inadvertently gets in the way of their knives, I'll add the clarification now. Three-chord rock is not the only type of music that has made me the musician I am now.
Wait a second, why am I defending myself? I don't give a shit who thinks what about three-chord rock. It's fun and I like it. End of story.
> " It's in the hole! It's a Cindarella story!" Now that's what GOLF is > all about!
That's not fair! Of course Bill Murray can make golf seem fun! :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:01:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike <syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: wtf? Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960724010017.18628D-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
Ok, kids.
Seems Mojoman, D-Man and his pals are going on about their stupid little click tracks and their recordings.
May i ask: _WHY_ isn't this in private e-mail? Didn't Skadz go on a goddamn rampage about it a month ago? Jesus, guys. Take a fuckin' chill
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:17:18 -0700 From: hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DA gets an EOJ, & that damn Jam RAM cram (No Underwear Content) Message-ID: <199607240517.WAA14351@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com>
Somebody wrote: > > --Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again. > --It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though." > --Douglas Adams >><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> >------------------------------ > >End of YTSEJAM Digest 1711 >************************** > Ah, my favorite author got hisself an EOJ! Bravo, Douglas! (and whoever quoted him). If you haven't read the "Hitchhiker's" Trilogy, do yourself a favor and do so ASAP. Every page is LOL funny!
My humble contributions to the Ytse-word game -
1. That imaginary memory that Mr. Clark thinks is being occupied by all those damn Ytsejams? - it's YtseRAM.
2. What they'll call the band after Mr. Hagar passes the audition . . . - YtseSam. (It's a joke, dammit!)
3. What they call it when a member of DT experiences premature ejaculation - YtseWhamBamThankYouMa'am.
Shit - I probably just offended Ben again! WTMFI, indeed!
OK, the final word about "clicks" - my keyboard has that "click". It's a Focus 9000, and it clicks just like an old IBM or a Northgate. You get a solid, tactile response so you can really type faster. I much prefer it to those mushy keyboards like Keytronics or Compaq. So, in closing, I think "Clicks" are a Good Thing. Glad to settle that for all of you.
You're quite welcome - don't mention it!
Sir Reality
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:06:17, -0500 From: FMTG05A@prodigy.com (MR ANTHONY L SCIAMANNA SR) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: More on Clicks Message-ID: <199607240506.BAA02752@mime3.prodigy.com>
I've been playing and studying the drums for almost ten years and I have to share my views on using a click. It can be a great tool but not every band needs to use a click track. After a band has played together for awhile they usually tend to find their rhythm without the use of a click. Not playing with a click allows the performers to fluctuate the tempo of the song (not drastically or noticeably) according to the way they feel and the mood of the parts. It's especially important for the drummer and bass player who can play behind or on top of the beat according to the mood of the part they are playing. If a band can't play together without the use of a click they shouldn't be playing. Granted, some bands are terrible at keeping a tempo, but this is not usually the case with professional bands. Dream Theater did not use a click on WDADU. Where in the live in Tokyo did DT use a click? Nowhere that I can see, especially since the tempos varied from what's on the albums. If you try to get a click to run thru the first few minutes of Learning to Live it won't work because the tempo varies from part to part (I don't just mean the chorus). The only reason Queensryche uses a click live is to keep the music in synch with the video that they play during the concert. In conclusion, a band does not have to use a click in order to be good. :) Anthony Sciamanna CLOCKWORK
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 05:49:05 UT From: "Susan " <spatz13@msn.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RE: Clicks Message-ID: <UPMAIL08.199607240545490502@msn.com>
---------- From: ytsejam@ax.com on behalf of call me Joey The Axe Man Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 1996 6:10 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Clicks
>mojoman said it, no one has a clock in thier head and a click puts one >there...i have yet to see a great band live who didnt have a flash (metronome) >or a headset on with a click track , almost everyband i've seen live uses >one....
But isn't part of the whole journey of musicianship getting past NOT having a click in your head? Shouldn't part of the goal (especially for those of us who are or will go to Berklee or MI or the like) be to CREATE a click in your head through TONS of practice?
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying people shouldn't use them. . . just pointing out an idea I haven't seen mentioned. . .
Like a scream but sort of silent. . . Susan
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------|
Spatz13@msn.com www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/3781
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------|
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 06:00:12 UT From: "Susan " <spatz13@msn.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RE: YtseBytsePuns Message-ID: <UPMAIL08.199607240556590555@msn.com>
From: ytsejam@ax.com on behalf of John Dea Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 1996 10:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: YtseBytsePuns
>So does that mean their favorite kind of meat is YtseHam, YtseLamb, or >YtseSPAM? Then again, that last one doesn't really count as meat (-8
Do we know that none of them happen to be vegetarian or vegan?
Like a scream but sort of silent. . . Susan
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------|
Spatz13@msn.com www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/3781
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------|
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:17:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> To: ThE NuGgeTjAm <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: mIRC and Words II... Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.960724010737.10063A-100000@indy21.gclab.missouri.edu>
Somone said: > Also, wasn't someone here developing an IRC app? It was called >something like mIRC and Words?
Yes, that's me. I didn't make the app, but I modified the latest (and final) version of the IRC client mIRC (v4.1). It's set to get your straight onto irc.dreamt.org
Basically, it's DT oriented... has some aliases and DT extras included in the package... There are also Add-On Packs (4 at the time of writing) that add sounds to the package for use on IRC. I haven't had any complaints (except from Ben, but who listens to his opinion anyway? ;), and Skadz gave me the go ahead to name it as "The Offical IRC Client of #Ytsejam"
It's avalible at http://www.phlab.missouri.edu/~c675311/mirc.html as are the Add-On Packs I have created so far... I just ask that you don't link this page on your own WWW Pages, to eliminate the chance that someone will just surf in and end up on dreamt... there are no links to that page, you have to go straight there...
Hope this helped... :)
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 / | Pat Griffin Reality2 Design | | c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu | h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
P.S. Ben: that was a joke. :) I think I have an extra sarcasm detector lying around here... I could send it to you... ;)
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:44:29 -0400 From: "Frank Benenati" <mojonet@pb.net> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Van Halen.....Clicks...Iron Maiden.........Golf????? Message-ID: <199607240647.XAA08255@mindcrime.ax.com>
> From: Dave Hatlee <buster@ee.net> > > 1. NDTC - I loved Mojomans take on VH in their defense! It not only made me > laugh, but he made some good points :) > Thanks Man!
******* > From: "call me Joey The Axe Man" <IBANEZ_MAN@msn.com> > > mojoman said it, no one has a clock in thier head and a click puts one > there...i have yet to see a great band live who didnt have a flash (metronome) > or a headset on with a click track , almost everyband i've seen live uses > one....
Hmmmm....Definitely....
******* > From: hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal)
> Mojoman bellowed: > > >I don't care if you're Eddie Fucking Van Halen.... > > Actually, in the spirit of the GrammarJam, it's supposed to be Eddie > Van Fucking Halen. Please correct your Thesauruses. (Thesauri?) >
Sorry.... I will fix all of the bugs in my Spell Checking and Gramatik Software....
******* > From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu> > > Hey, listen, there's something I've been meaning to get off my chest. > You remember that band I formed back in '92 that I asked you to join > sometime in '94? Yeah, well, you know, I'm really sorry for totally > screwing the pooch on that click-track thing. After all, it was your > band and all.
^^ I don't think that last statement was at all true...After all....you guys won on the click thingie....right? I'm sorry I spewed the last post into a pubic forum.....that was wrong of me....
> Hey, listen, I just need one small favor from ya. Would it be possible > for you to stick your head neck-deep in your own ass and take a few deep
> breaths? You already have?!? Wow. Frank, you're a true friend.
Hmmmm....I seem to do that daily....anyway....give me something more challenging...
> P.S. I almost forgot - Even more people have been writing to me lately,
> telling me how cool that Vision tape is. I mean, some people actually > wonder why we haven't gotten signed yet! Good thing I didn't let any of
> that bullshit "feeling" stuff into my performances, huh?
Did you ever wonder what it would've sounded like if the parts were truely 'in time'?????
******* > From: Mithrandir <mithrandir@pb.net>
> My two cents on the click thing: When I recorded the demo with > D-man, and Mojo I was not asked to play to a click.
Hey John....you know something...I stand corrected....We never atempted a click on Walls....
> As for bands that have not used clicks, try Iron Maiden (*SNIP....SNAP....CUT...Bang*)
I'm sure you have the Live one called "A Real Live One" or something along those lines... Listen to "Can I play with Madness" and tell me that song is in time!??????!!!!!! It's really frustrating....because I've become a strong IM fan of late.....but just hearing the time fuck ups in that version of the song really gets to me.....
> Ben: As you get older and wiser you will be eventually sucked into > playing golf. I was the same way as you at your age. Although, maybe you > don't like it because there is so little grass in Las Vegas. Just a guess.
Golf rules......Sorry I didn't get to you in time....John....I was....as you say....BD...
M O J O !
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:05:59 -0400 From: Imxtnit@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Some guy named Varney... Message-ID: <960724030559_583502953@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Someone said:
>does violins on one song, Ray Mazerank (sp, from the Doors), Glenn >Hughes, Mike Varney (anyone know who this guy is, I've seen the name and >can't recall where)+others.
I think there's a sci-fi writer named Mike Varney who did the screenplay for *Millienium*. Highly doubt it's the same guy, though, but maybe that's where you recall the name from.
Hope that clears up and not creates more cranial muddiness, Tim -----------=======================--------- / "I am the way, I am the light, I am the \ / dark inside the night. I hear your hopes, I \ \ feel your dreams, and in the dark I hear / \ your screams." -- Savatage, "Believe" / -----------=======================--------- | IMXTNIT@AOL.COM | =======================
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:09:34 +0300 From: Leinonen Juha <Juha.Leinonen@birdy22.utaj.fi> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: RE: New Bands Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960724080934.0066fd68@utaj.fi>
From: <CNG@tcco.com> (Chung Ng) Subject: New Bands
>I just got my DreamDisc catalog and have looked through it about 7 times=20 >already. It's got so much stuff!!! They give brief descriptions and=20 >comparisons, but I ONLY trust you guys for opinions, so I'd appreciate any= =20 >opinions on some of the following bands before I order them:
>Parish (ex-Crimson Glory), Psycho Drama, Kamelot, Stratovarious, Threshold,= =20 >Dreamlore, Bourne Wisdom, Asgard.
>They're all listed as either "Dream Theater influenced" or "Progressive=20 melodic metal"
>Thanks.
Well, I only recognize Stratovarius. I haven't listen Stratovarious much, but I can say that, Timo Tolkki (lead guitarist and "the band leader") can play some good solos... but I think that they're little too short in the new album (Episode). Althought in the new album Tolkki "hired" new drummer J=F6rg Michael and new keyboard player Jens Johansson (who previously had played with Dio and Yngwie Malmsteen), Episode is quite usual heavy metal album. I'd say that previous album "Fourth Dimension" is better than= "Episode". Personally I don't like Timo Tolkki at all, because he allways say what to do and how, but I have to admit that he is really good guitarist.=20 Despite of all, Stratovarious is worthwhile to get to know.=20
if you want to know more about Stratovarious visit at official netsite -> http://www.netlife.fi/stratovarius/ **************************************************************** * "It's better burn out than fade away." - Kurt Cobain * * * * Visit my homepage at http://www.utaj.fi/~joshua/ * =20 * It's a Better Homepage In The Net * ****************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:28:43 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: CD update Message-ID: <199607240828.BAA08234@bud.indirect.com>
A CD update dated 7/24/96 is available...
- voluntas vincit omnia - Mike Bahr - durnik@indirect.com -
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:35:11 +0200 From: akyuz@ltp.dmx.epfl.ch To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: clik! Message-ID: <v02130500ae1b8f05f33f@[128.178.99.94]>
>>How do you figure?!? > >because the click is constant and doesn't change tempo whereas humans can >and do. even the person deemed to have the "best timing" will stray. and >it's for this reason that some of the best drummers can be found in >industrial-type bands. playing to a digital recording over and over, nite >after nite takes real musicianship.
Thanks for backing me on this, John. Couldn't have said it better.
Well...in fact:
When you play without click, you tend to change the tempo according to the dynamics of the song going through your head. If you're building up tension in a section and know you're gonna release it, you may anticipate a slow-down towards the end of the section. If you're in a section that will lead into a more dynamic one (eg. Verse into Chorus), even if both are same tempo, you will tend to anticipate the dynamics and slightly increase the tempo at the end of the first section, so that you've "wound up" the song for the Chorus.
Now, using a click will kill all this.
........................................................................ D A V E K I N G vox & bass MT-20
"holding on is easier than letting go" (fw)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1712 **************************
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