YTSEJAM Digest 1710
Today's Topics:
1) re:re: Edgy Van Heflen & the Slackers
by Randall Braun <RBraun@tlr.ameridata.com>
2) More about clicks, and other stuff
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
3) DT & Radio
by al587725@campus.cegs.itesm.mx (Marcelo Martinelli)
4) New Viruses
by Ryan_Rafaloff@tanagraphics.com (Ryan Rafaloff)
5) Absolute, unbridled genius
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
6) goof ballz
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
7) Clicking Shadows Plumber Green
by "Chris Ptacek" <someone@enteract.com>
8) Clicks.....
by "Frank Benenati" <mojonet@pb.net>
9) D-Man refuses to call Syrinx back! News at 11!@
by Mike <syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
10) Help !!!
by bwrights@dnaent.com (Bill Wrightson)
11) Queensryche CD-rom Promised Land
by "call me Joey The Axe Man" <IBANEZ_MAN@msn.com>
12) Scarborough Fair
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
13) The End of Silence
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 12:30:00 PDT
From: Randall Braun <RBraun@tlr.ameridata.com>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: re:re: Edgy Van Heflen & the Slackers
Message-ID: <31F52906@mailgate.ameridata.com>
>>>>1) This could turn into a huge debate. Let's try to avoid that.
OK, I'll admit that I was trying to start a little controversy. I'll stop my
contributions to this thread with this Email.
>>>>2) They grew up. This is what they want to play now. They're like
Metallica in that regard. Like it or dislike it. That's what they feel
like writing.
Huh? when did they (VH) do that? (grow up) OK Sammy did bring a little
maturity in lyrical content, but now he's gone...
>>>>IMHO you're an ----, well, never mind. I can't see where you come up
with that "Zit-puckered blah blah blah," I guess you haven't heard
Don't Tell Me (What Love Can Do), or how about Deja Vu, or Not Enough,
or Feelin' or Aftershock, or.... I think you get my point.
What point? I think you missed mine. I've listened to VH before there was a
VH, so to spea; Iz grow'd up wit dem, yes real vinyl LP's with
scratches&clicks&hiss, before there was such a thing as CD's. I still think
the music's fair to mediocre. VH only shines when he solos. As for the
slackers, they certainly must be competent, else noone would've signed them
as a lot and called them a band. But, I can always tell a VH song by that
de-stink-tive rhythm section.
>>>>>I had more but what's the use. The person who wrote this is STILL
sending mail to arastar. Hey Genius, we haven't been at arastar for 7
months now. When you get a clue, write back.
Ok. I'll admit I still used the old address. I must've changed it on my
other Email address list. But its changed now. Maybe you should get the
clue...but maybe it'd go right by you...
Now back to lurking, and waiting for some real musical creativity....DT
content
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:43:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: More about clicks, and other stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9607231348.A16390-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
> From: "Madelaine d'Ambert" <maddy@enteract.com>
> Subject: Clicks not necessary? Hmm...
>
> Had to put my $0.02 in....
Thanks! Now I can get that newspaper I've been saving up for! :)
> I don't know if you've ever worked in a studio before, but unless you're
> recording jazz or vocal ensembles, each person records separately, hence,
> the "feel among the band" is lost...Ever try to take visual cues from a tape
> machine?? :)
> Besides, on LIT, they show Kevin playing along with a click track...Guess
> that means DT doesn't have the vibe, eh? Pity....
OK, time for some clarification. First, I didn't say that clicks are
bad, I just said they're unnecessary. I've recorded a few times (rock
stuff) and by and large the bass (me) and drums recorded at the same
time, so I had the feel. I don't know how the various guitarists felt
about not having us actually playing when they recorded (but I'm sure
Mojo will tell you now. :) I tried doing one rhythm track with a click,
and it just threw us way off. Clicks to me are unnatural, but some bands
love using them to stay precise. That's cool. I, however, far prefer to
be in tune to my drummer than to a click. Just my opinion.
If you've got the feel, and you're a precise unit, the click only adds to
the equation. But not having it doesn't subtract, and having it if you
can't groove does take away from the quality of the band. That's what I
meant to say. :)
----> From: SaVeur <saveur@cais.cais.com> > Subject: clicks and maybe some other stuff > > d-man sed: > >some text and run a program, and it creates 2 web pages for me. I just > >have to get my linked lists to play nicely. :) > > sorted, right? how about doubly-linked? try using threaded binary search > trees if yer really bored ;)
yuck :p Hey, want to edit my code, if you're bored? :)
> i think there's also a half second of John M. playing w/ a metronome. > course, i might be imagining it. wouldn't surprise me. anyway, someone whip > it out (LiT u dork) and verify.
grooooooooooooooan :)
----
> From: btomko@home.glasscity.net > Subject: Alternative Math > > Ever wonder how much longer the alternative craze will last? When > will people finally get bored of three chord progressions? Well, having
I just thought I would mention, for the sake of anyone that cares, that I shall *never* grow tired of three-chord progressions. A great deal of the stuff I grew up listening to, and that made me the musician I am today, was three-chord rock. You can pry my Who discs from my cold, dead hands if you like, but not before. Scuse me, I'm gonna go jam along with "Substitute."
----
> From: <CNG@tcco.com> (Chung Ng) > Subject: Queensryche CD-Rom > > I heard on the radio (many, many months ago) that there was a Queensryche > CD-Rom available somewhere. I had forgotten about it until someone I met > mentioned it to me again. Does anyone know if there is one available in the > states?
Yes, I've seen it in software stores. Egghead and the like. Try there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:00:55 -0500 From: al587725@campus.cegs.itesm.mx (Marcelo Martinelli) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT & Radio Message-ID: <9607231800.AA05217@campus.cegs.itesm.mx>
With all the talk about wanting to hear DT on the radio I have some good news. I have been working in a radio station (D-99) for 2 months , I have an alternative music show ( I know ! , but it beats working in McDonalds!). The point is that as much as I would love to put DT on my show I just can't do it. The good news is that I have been talking with a guy that has a hard rock show once a week and we will probably do a 2 hour DT special in one of the following weeks. About 3 weeks ago I was a guest at his show and I was allowed to put "6:00" and talk a little about DT and from there is where the idea came from and hopefully it will come a reality in the near future. I'm hoping that this will help DT gain some popularity at least in my town since DT isn't very popular here in Mexico. Well that is my little support for DT and I'm eagerly awaiting the next album.
-Marcelo Martinelli-
-It dawned on me one day that I should not be making sandwiches for a living- ---John Petrucci---
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 13:48:46 -0500 From: Ryan_Rafaloff@tanagraphics.com (Ryan Rafaloff) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New Viruses Message-ID: <141858.ensmtp@tanagraphics.com>
I've always been a guy who looked out for others, so here is something everyone should know about, if you don't know it already!!
Important:
If you get Internet Email Entitled "Good Times" Delete it. It has a virus as an attached file.
This is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If you receive an email message with the subject line "Good Times", DO NOT read the message, DELETE it immediately.
Also:
DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE EXTENSION
A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the name PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress) files.
DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you install or expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and affect modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive virus and there is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one.
REPEAT: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE EXTENSION
BTW Pat Daugherty reccommended a CD order web site to me....If you need to find a disk, go here, find it and buy it!!!
Rock On,
-Raf "Nothing id Sacred, you draw the bottom line with a $" - Status Seeker......DT
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tanagraphics, Inc. 263 Ninth Avenue, New York, NY 1000 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:09:49 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu> To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Absolute, unbridled genius Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9607231434.E16390-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
OK, web surfers. I have no idea how long this site has been around, but the people that write for Suck (www.suck.com) are incredible. Not only do they write about stuff that matters, but they bring everything down to a level where the great is extolled, the stupid is ridiculed, and the off-line are left behind. I just got done reading a rant about MTV at http://www.suck.com/daily/dynaframes/96/04/26/ and you all must read it now. It is simply unadulterated genius. (And they mention prog. :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:16:38 -0500 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: goof ballz Message-ID: <31F51706.72CD@dreamt.org>
>On a completely unrelated note (was that F# or F Sharp?), we got really >goofy tonight on IRC
hahaha, we go completely out of our minds virtually EVERY NIGHT on irc =) all you jammers who dont hang there are MISSING OUT ;)
btw, it was F#
>What if DT was one of those haircut bands? Would we be subscribed to >the YtseGlam? >What if we found out that they've been lip-synching this whole time? >YtseScam? >What if they had gone into waterway engineering? YtseDam? >What if George Michael joined the group? YtseWham? >What's that new Mike Bahr cd called? YtseSFAM? >What if they played in drag? YtseMa'am? >What if they were seafood chefs? YtseClam? >What if everyone moshed at the Malibu? YtseSlam? >Who's that rockin' cabbie? YtsePam?
ah, but what if they had godly powers? YtseDamn? what if they sponsored a bad meat company? YtseSpam? what if they took up magical abilities? YtseKazam! ?
=) ~Rip
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:13:58 +0000 From: "Chris Ptacek" <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Clicking Shadows Plumber Green Message-ID: <199607231913.OAA02709@enteract.com>
> > > > Ummm... really quick... I just wanted to say in regards to click > > tracks, you NEED them in the studio (And DT uses them) and they are > > helpful live, though generally the thrill of playing live keeps many > > people in time. > > I completely, 100% disagree with this. If you have the feel among the > band, you don't need the click. If you need the click, you don't have > the vibe, and you're going to sound lousy anyway. >
So you say that DT doesn't "Have the Vibe"? Or Queensryche? Or Rush? All these bands use click tracks. I think they have both the vibe and the groove. A click track is necessary for 2 reasons:
1) To allow an instrument to be recorded before the drums and allow it to be in perfect time, and 2) to save you money in the studio. The fewer takes you have to do, the less money you spend in the studio. Sure there are more reasons, and sure some people can't keep time without clicks, but to say that it's always some kind of cop out is to say that bands like Dream Theater can't keep time. I hope that's not what you're implying.
> Chris Ptacek wrote: > > >I play guitar and have 7/8 years of experience. > > Wow, Chris - you've been playing for (whips out calculator) . . . > 320.25 days (it's a leap year). > > Sorry, couldn't resist. BTW, I have 5/16 centuries experience. 8^) > > I know, I know - I have underwear older than most of you . . . > > Sir Reality >
ROFL
I was going to correct this by saying I've been playing guitar for 7-8 years, but I figured you'd say that means I've been playing guitar for -1 years, meaning I don't start until July 97. I meant I've been playing for about seven or eight years. That would be amusing to be able to give an exact fraction for the time I've been playing... 7 14/26 years? Who knows. Oh well... just wanted to clarify.
And do we have carbon dating to prove the age of said underwear? Honestly, I have no interest in finding out. :)
Chris Ptacek EnterAct, L.L.C. someone@enteract.com K Elf Amon@Aol.Com (Emergency Use Only) --------------------------------------- "True Syncophants know how to spell 'syncophancy'... otherwise they can't get into the meetings." -Mike Keneally
~Buy Perspectives, by Jason Becker. Support ALS~ ----------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:32:38 -0400 From: "Frank Benenati" <mojonet@pb.net> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Clicks..... Message-ID: <199607231936.MAA26277@mindcrime.ax.com>
Ok....Time for me to jump into this.....
I don't care if you're Eddie Fucking Van Halen....God didn't put a perfect metronome in anyones head!!!!
this is such a sore spot with me....because I feel my bands demo would have been a hell of a lot better if we used clicks.....(both sessions)....
Unfortunately....my band was filled with people that share this stupid pride about clicks... Because they never sat down and truely learned rhythm.....they couldn't play with a click.....so they responded " See???? It doesnt work!!!" The problem was that they didn't know how to play with a click....
Feel is bullshit!!! When you are a professional....and you are cutting something That is going to remain on tape forever...you put a click in!!!
I think Digital boy has read too many sensationalist articles with musicians claiming they just went in and Jammed.... Yeah!!! Right!!!! I'd want you to believe that too....If you were reading my interview!
Maybe this tactic will work on this list....
Dream Theater uses clicks!!!!! Portnoy said it himself!!! The only time they don't is when it is physically impossible!!!!
throw away your pride...a click is a necassary tool in todays recording....We're not recording Robert Johnson with a turntable and a suspended can mike....
M O J O M A N
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:37:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike <syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu> To: Yitz-see-jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: D-Man refuses to call Syrinx back! News at 11!@ Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960723153222.23715A-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
Howdy, all. The Mighty Mighty Syrinx here to entertain you.
Yes, Chris. Call me. I don't leave annoying messages for fun. :)
So, yesterday I pick up the new I MOTHER EARTH cd. It's pretty killer stuff for those of you who liked Edwin's vocals on Alex Liefson's _VICTOR_ album and such. It's even got one of 'dem CDEnhanced things. Now, all i need is a CDrom and i'm set.
To all of you VH'ers: Shut up. This isn't the goddamn Van Halen listserv, is it? <well, last time _I_ checked it wasn't, but i could be wrong>. David's back in. Sammy's out. Deal with it and move on with your life. Sorry, but it's gotta be said.
So, Critical Mass is pretty killer. I'm #99, for those who haven't gotten it yet. No, it's not better than ASoH (Imo, of course), but it's the best Counterparts bootleg out there. It has to be.
Let's see. What else is new. Oh. To anyone who needs a ride to the Ytsecon in October, gimme a buzz. I'm willing to drive a few people (provided the g/f has the shotgun seat and all).
Blah. Ok. Time to go.
------------------------------------- Michael B. Ostrich musical advisor/consultant syrinx@dreamt.org syrinx@voicenet.com syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu ..and a partridge in a pear tree.
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 08:03:56 -0500 From: bwrights@dnaent.com (Bill Wrightson) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Help !!! Message-ID: <199607231303.IAA25542@renner.dnaent.com>
I am currently subscribed with two email addresses,
bwrights@dna.metronet.com bwrights@dnaent.com
Can you please unsubscribe the first address for me: bwrights@dna.metronet.com
I would do it myself but the dna.metronet.com address is recieve only.
Thanks Bill Wrightson
*************************************************************************** ** ** ** Bill Wrightson email: bwrights@dnaent.com ** ** DNA Enterprises, INC. ** ** 269 W. Renner Parkway ** ** Richardson, Tx 75080 ** ** ** ** Voice: (214) 644-3301 ext:123 Fax: (214) 644-6338 ** ** ** ***************************************************************************
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 21:53:17 UT From: "call me Joey The Axe Man" <IBANEZ_MAN@msn.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Queensryche CD-rom Promised Land Message-ID: <UPMAIL04.199607232153280110@msn.com>
in the last jam somone asked about the queensryche cd rom, it is called
QUEENSRYCHE's PROMISED LAND
and it is available at most egghead stores and other software reseller locations.
it is a pretty cool interactive game...the first disc is a tour of the big log studio where they recorded the album and you can walk through it and click on things and it will tell you about those things as well as find interviews and alot of cool stuff about the band...
the second cd is the game where you have to reunite the four pieces of the tri ryche and when you do you get to see a video of the band, and hear a song never released or performed...only for those of us who can figure out the game...
get it...and enjoy....
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:01:27 -0700 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Scarborough Fair Message-ID: <199607231801.LAA19084@main.cfmc.com>
>From: "Chris Ptacek" <someone@enteract.com> >And 2). Does anyone know where I can get a digital copy of >Queensryche's cover of Scarborough Fair? The people on the QR news >page are rip offs. I don't want to have to pay $35 for one song. >Maybe you guys can help. If anyone has one of the CD singles that >has it, I'd pay $20 for it... or maybe it's on one of Mike's >compilations..... I just want this song badly. I also want another >copy of the Lie single, or any other digital copy of the studio >performance of To Live Forever. Mine looks like it's gonna start >skipping soon.
$35! Ugh....I just picked up the single on a whim. Three bucks. I don't have a disc duplicator, though, so I suppose I won't be any help. For better or for worse, it's pretty damn cool...not 35 bucks cool, but cool.
>From: vestal@usa.net (DUSTY VESTAL) >To: ytsejam@ax.com >Subject: Van Halen is washed out....(NO DTC) >Message-ID: <199607230000.SAA07826@mail.usa.net> > >In my own opinion, it's been many years since Van Halen has put out anything >interesting...I'm suprised more jammers don't agree with this...I prefer >David Lee Roth anyday over Sammy...Sammy was really good on his own, but >their music has really turned wimpy since he took over the vocals for VH... >Plus, Eddie hasn't put out anything interesting on guitar. It all seems to >sound the same.... I know alot of people think that Dave is more of a >showman, but come on, songs like "Humans Being" and "How do I know if it's >love" seem so tame compared to "Atomic Punk", and "And the cradle will >rock"... At least every song wasn't a love song back then......Yea, Dave >needs to stay off the booz, but he needs to give VH the kick in the pants >that they need...Dusty
Couldn't agree less. I mean, "Atomic Punk" is cool, but I wouldn't want to hear a career of that tune. The band mixes things up more at this point. More interesting. Plus the later albums sound better, to my way of thinking...
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Back From Rio -- Roger McGuinn 2. Jagged Little Pill -- Alanis Morrisette 3. The Yes Album -- Yes 4. I Sing The Body Electric -- Weather Report 5. Crest of a Knave -- Jethro Tull
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 15:45:13 -0700 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: The End of Silence Message-ID: <199607222245.PAA09878@main.cfmc.com>
>From: hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal) >>Then again, I bought I&W first and think that record is >>stronger musically. > >I bought I&W first, too, and I disagree 100%. Awake is the best album >of all time. No qualifiers, it's a fact. > >>After ACOS, I'm starting to think that he may be going back to >>his cleaner sound; at least, I hope so. > >And I hope NOT!
Can't say I agree....that "Awake" is a better record ain't anything vaguely resembling a "fact," and I'd have to say that "Images and Words" is, by far, the best album in the Dream Theater catalog.
>From: Mithrandir <mithrandir@pb.net> > I went to the Ethyl Mertz show on Friday, and I must say it was >pretty cool. Derek knew none of the songs, but still managed to play his ass >off. The cool thing was when Jon Oliva from Savatage came out and sang two >Beatles songs. In the second set, they brought up about everyone in the bar >for guest spots on songs. Amazing thing about Al Pitrelli; from a distance >he looks just like John Petrucci(with the beard). The place is a real scummy >place however, but as MOJO will attest they do serve Tequila. He left after >the first set though, he has no balls.
Yeah, Al Pitrelli's a hell of a player. He's particularly good on the CPR album, with Randy Coven. It's another CD that ends up in the cut-out bin. If you can find it there, it's beyond well worth the money.
>From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> >To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> >Subject: THIS is interesting..... >Message-ID: <31F2ECD2.5BF0@dreamt.org> > >i was introducing a friend of mine to DT yesterday.... it was Caught in >a Web.. she remarked that James sounded like Rob Zombie of white >zombie. hows that for a comparison? :) she did like it though, so its >nuttin' necessarily bad there... just an interesting comment. anyone >else see this in James's voice? hehehe
Rob Zombie? No, can't say I do. I suppose when James is singing his most guttural, there's a slight resemblance. Not that I don't like White Zombie (I actually do -- I think they're doing wonderful things with the E string), but I sure don't hear it.
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Van Halen II -- Van Halen 2. Back From Rio -- Roger McGuinn 3. A Love Supreme -- John Coltrane 4. American Standard -- Sevenmarythree 5. Ride The Lightning -- Metallica
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1710 **************************
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