YTSEJAM digest 1622

Date: Fri Jun 14 1996 - 12:09:34 EDT

  • Next message: "YTSEJAM digest 1626"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 1622

    Today's Topics:

      1) I, Producer.
      2) Virus Warnings! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
     by (Scott Cook)
      3) Clee, shay.
     by Ben Laussade <>
      4) YTSEJAM digest 1618
     by "Steven Johnson" <>
      5) YTSEJAM digest 1620
     by "Steven Johnson" <>
      6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1620
     by Mark Smeets <>
      7) being different
      8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1621
     by Mark Smeets <>
      9) Metallica (for the last time)
     10) Denver, CO Area Jammers?
     by (Tom Baddley)
     11) Cool stuff in LA
     by John Mastin <>
     12) Harp / MB / SFAM?
     by "Ryan P. Skadberg" <>


    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:16:30 -0400
    To: Home Of The Whopper <>
    Subject: I, Producer.
    Message-ID: <>

    Scotch back in this Y'all.

    Jam 1620: Suave, debonair Graham Borland writes thusly:

    > Scott wrote:
    > > And whoever suggested that Portnoy or Petrucci produce it themselves,
    > > right on.
    > Mike was asked about this in the new fanzine (I&W #10), and he thought it
    > a bad idea. Something along the lines of "needing an objective viewpoint in
    > the studio", I think.

    Eh. I see the point. Depends on what direction a band might want to go in.
     Could be good or bad. Often times a producer is exactly what ends up
    reining in a band's creative processes, though-- cutting songs, making tunes
    more "accessible," exercising a little organization, and that Objective
    Viewpoint is what keeps the band's sessions from dissolving into chaos.

    I know; I've had to be that Objective Viewpoint from *within* a band, and you
    have to be an Asshole. You have to say Look, sit down, shut the fuck up,
    take out those extra 5 outro repeats, shorten the guitar solo, don't be so
    busy on the drums, etc. etc. And your other band members grumble and fume,
    but the song gets recorded, finally. The producer has to be that Asshole--
    and a lot of times that's just what a band needs; someone to preside, settle
    disputes, offer advice outside of the songwriting/performing loop, keep the
    band in line and on track. That's probably what Portnoy's talking about. I
    can buy that.

    On the other hand, look where self-producing can go. Jimmy Page produced all
    Led Zeppelin's releases, and ended up pioneering rock music in both
    songwriting (intricate, complex, multi-styled music) and production (loudly
    mixed drums, weird guitar/vocal effects, unorthodox recording methods). Jimi
    Hendrix produced a lot of his own stuff off of Electric Ladyland and Are You
    Experienced, and you know how Far Out he got. ELP produced their own stuff
    (individually, usually). More recently, Tori Amos produced her latest album,
    Boys For Pele, and the album is such a weird, scary departure from her
    earlier stuff. Uh, I can't think of any more examples, except maybe for Mr.
    Bungle (who self-produced their 2nd record Disco Volante, in the
    heretofore-thought-impossible task of out-weirding their first John
    Zorn-produced album).

    Essentially, self-production, while it takes away that outside opinion (and
    possibly the last vestiges of order in the studio), it also allows
    opportunities for bands to really let their ideas flow. For all you
    Prog-nuts out there, that just might result in a Return To Form for Dream
    Theater-- they might go totally overboard with their creative processes,
    experimenting with new and weirder styles and techniques, maybe getting more
    Progressive, maybe not.

    I mean, personally, as a fan of the Awake era, I'm not sure how much of an
    impact DT's producers had on their material. A whole lot of you like I&W
    better than Awake... I wonder if Awake's "less progressive" edge had anything
    to do with the producers' styles (after all, they did produce for Heart). Or
    if I&W would have been MORE progressive had DT stayed with Terry Date instead
    of David Prater. I really don't know. Has the band commented on this at
    all? In interviews or something? Do they do most of their songwriting on
    their own anyway?

    Self-producing, I think, would involve a lot of self-discipline, which I
    venture that DT has. And I certainly think they're game to try new ideas,
    synthesize them from within the band, as opposed to from outside.

    Then, maybe they're worried about their press... imagine how "self-indulgent"
    they'd be called if they produced their own album, full of super-cutting-edge
    prog stuff.

    And at this point in their careers, I don't know how willing EastWest would
    be to let DT produce themselves. Maybe further on down the road.

    Still, I think it'd be cool.

    And that is my Too Sense.

    Is The Next Evolutionary Step

    ps: Happy Fuckin' Free Net Speech!


    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 18:38:47 -0700
    From: (Scott Cook)
    To: 103362.445@CompuServe.COM
    Subject: Virus Warnings! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
    Message-ID: <>

                            WARNING!!!!!!! INTERNET VIRUS

    The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of major
    importance to any regular user of the Internet. Apparently a new
    computer virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON LINE that
    is unparalleled in its destructive capability. Other more well-known
    viruses such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in
    comparison to the prospects of this newest creation by a warped
    mentality. What makes this virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the
    fact that no program needs to be exchanged for a new computer to be
    infected. It can be spread through the existing email systems of the

    Once a Computer is infected, one of several things can happen. If
    the computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be
    destroyed. If the program is not stopped, the computer's processor
    will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop -which can
    severely damage the processor if left running that way too long.

    Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what is
    happening until it is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure means
    of detecting what is now known as the "Good Times" virus. It always
    travels to new computers the same way in a text email message with
    the subject line reading "Good Times". Avoiding infection is easy
    once the file has been received simply by NOT READING IT! The act
    of loading the file into the mail server's ASCII buffer causes the
    "Good Times" mainline program to initialize and execute. The program
    is highly intelligent- it will send copies of itself to everyone
    whose email address is contained in a receive-mail file or a sent-mail
    file, if it can find one. It will then proceed to trash the computer
    it is running on.

    The bottom line is: - if you receive a file with the subject line
    "Good Times", delete it immediately! Do not read it" Rest assured
    that whoever's name was on the "From" line was surely struck by the
    virus. Warn your friends and local system users of this newest threat
    to the Internet! It could save them a lot of time and money.


    A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the name
    PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a
    new version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress) files.

    DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you install or
    expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and
    affect modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive
    and there is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one.



    These goodtimes warnings pop up from time to time, but the PKZIP I
    haven't heard of before, please be careful out there!


    "Flash before my eyes, now it's time to die"


    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:13:51 -0700
    From: Ben Laussade <>
    Subject: Clee, shay.
    Message-ID: <>

    >I read an interview with Metallica about 3 1/2 years ago and they
    >said they made songs shorter to get more radio airplay. They said they
    >did this because radio stations wanted to play the songs from AJFA but
    >they were too long, and Metallica then refused to shorten them. Just
    >imagine if Dream Theater did this. What would we think of Awake if all
    >the songs were sliced in half? Just one in the many ways Metallica has
    >sold out.

    Quality, not quantity, my son.

    >Now before everyone
    >jumps on a new thread of of what the definition of a Finger Lake is (which
    >I'm sure would be very interesting :P)

    Finger laken' good.

    >Sorry, but I disagree. When I'd say "Metallica deserves more credit for
    >what they're doing" I would be referring to "Master..". what they get
    >credit for today is having Oasis influences, techno remixes, and G'n'R
    >like song titles (Ain't my bitch???). It pisses me off how they are still
    >called metallica now days, as it will confuse ppl even more about what
    >metal REALLY is (as ppl often think "Metallica...oh, that must be metal!").

    I thought Dream Theater was a death metal band. Same with Primus.


            Not EVERYbody has to like Metallica. And, the fact that you don't
    like them (that is a plural "you". not to someone specific) doesn't mean
    that they sold out. I don't know if they did or not....but I don't care
    either, because they make music that is entertaining to me. Okay?

            BTW.....Oasis is cool.

    >could be a totally mellow song like 'Hook' and there's Popper going off
    >like he's having some kind of musical orgasm!

    Yuck. ;-) Who else have you heard that can play anything like that, though?

            I wonder, if you were a brass player, if a musical orgasm evolved
    the ejaculation of valve oil or slide grease....oh well.

    >Ha! I knew I'd get a response from you! I DON'T NEED YOU ANYMORE! I'VE FOUND
    >OTHERS!!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    >(/me is losing his mind in ARKVILLE)

    No shit. :-)

    >Why? You got a problem with saving money? Sure, I;m in BMG twice and CH
    >twice, but when an album that I've been waiting for, such as Load, comes out,
    >I still buy it in the store. BTW, Load was like $12 at The Wall when it came
    >out.Also, is it just the fact that I don't have a good ear for percussion
    >yet, or is there double bass at 2:17 of "Hero Of The Day"?

    So it's only illegal if you get BAD CD's free? Sheesh. And, there's some
    double kick in 2x4 and I'm sure a few other places on the album.

    >Amen. This is the one thing that has kept me from really enjoying Blues
    >Traveller. To hear some really great harp playing that isn't all flash, get
    >any of the Bela Fleck albums with Howard Levy.

    and I said

    >AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO NO NO!!!!!!!
    > John Popper is the HARMONICA GOD. END OF STORY.

            I forgot to mention that I got really bored with Four. But, John
    Popper is still a harmonica god.

    >well ok, change might've not been the right word, but wouldn't you say that
    >your tastes have expanded over the years? I'm sure you're more open-minded
    >about music now than when you were 12 years old.(or whatever age you were 10
    >years ago)

    Yeah......what Ernie said. I guess when I said that, I was just thinking of
    me....cuz I was 4 years old 10 years ago. :-)

    There's always room for Jell-O.

    Screaming from the minarets, I listen openly....
    Ben Laussade


    Date: 13 Jun 1996 19:19:19 GMT
    From: "Steven Johnson" <>
    Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1618
    Message-ID: <>

    *** Reply to note of 06/12/96 11:38
    "What color is the sky in your world" was in Cheers. Some of my buds have said
    it for years and when we saw that episode we wanted some cash for copyright
    infringements. :) Don't ya hate it when you grow up with some phrase thinking
    it's funny and original, but then you find out it isn't original at all?


    "You may remember me from such movies as 'The Revenge of Abe
    Lincoln' and 'The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'"
                                               - actor Troy McClure


    Date: 13 Jun 1996 19:21:19 GMT
    From: "Steven Johnson" <>
    Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1620
    Message-ID: <>

    *** Reply to note of 06/13/96 09:15

    Don't take this wrong, but....have you ever thought that Metallica jus isn'tt
    as good as they were before TBA? I mean the bottomline could just as well be
    that their creativity in the metal genre has run out so they have brought in a
    new influence--commercial success on a large scale. Is it any wonder Jason
    Newsted --the newest member of the band--allegedly wants to move in a new
    direction? It seems so many people on the Jam want to equate "oldest fans
    losing interest" with the inability of those fans' to mature and grow with the
    band as well.
      A band can keep their oldest fans without selling out. I don't believe
    Metallica fits that argument. They have changed so drastically in such a few
    number of releases (i.e. AJFA to TBA) that the "maturing" argument is
    extremely hard to swallow for the longer term fans. Not saying 14 year olds
    can't appreciate and get crazy to the stuff that came out when they were 4,
    but they haven't GROWN with the band. It is a relationship over TIME as well
    as musicalappreciation or BELONGING to a certain image.

    I dislike a lot of the alternative music, but I also hated a lot of the metal
    that got airplay. It has nothing to do with how many others' like it, it has
    to do with who I believe DESERVES the notoriety and WHY. I have no problem
    admiting ANYTHING. And anyone who does wouldn't read your post and all of the
    sudden say, "Wow. This kid's right!"

    The bottom line is Metallica as I know it isn't Metallica anymore. Metallica
    as YOU know it is the same. You were 9 or 10 when TBA came out. Fine, so you
    appreciate the early stuff and other teens do, too. But you haven't seen the
    band change through the years. Metallica and Anthrax have grown and changed
    and I still loved them. But as far as I,a long term fan, and many others care,
    they have ceased growing and are only changing--and not for the better. It's
    emotional as well as musical. If they started playing like U2 in 1987, I'd
    have started to hate them, too...AND I LIKE U2. But Metallica has to grow as
    Metallica, not as some generi-incarnation that is "hip today" (another Extreme may want to check 'em out. They've remained true to their art
    as well as being exceptional musicians.......something Metallica can't claim.)


    "You may remember me from such movies as 'The Revenge of Abe
    Lincoln' and 'The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'"
                                               - actor Troy McClure


    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:11:17 PST
    From: Mark Smeets <>
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1620
    Message-ID: <>

    ** Reply to note from 06/13/96 07:18am -0700

    Too many damn ystejam lists to catch up on, oh well, that's
    what you get for workin in theatre (or is that theater) the
    past 4 weeks.

    I was listening to Fates Warning Parellel's cd and I put on
    "life in still water" which is an awesome song, I was
    reading the credits and it says that James is singing the
    backgrounds for it. I thought cool but as I listened for
    his voice, I couldn't hear a damn thing, just this, really
    high pitched voice, did someone like grab him by the balls
    and squeeze to hard or what? I can't even make out his
    voice style.

    Kevin Gilbert: That totally sucks about him, I have a
    girfriend who is a big fan of his work. Apparently, he was
    just about to complete a NEW album before his death and
    they WILL finish this album and release it, I think by
    Christmas, I can't remember.

    Any Jammers in Vancouver, BC? or am I the only one?

    About the megadeth solo album, I may as well say something
    about that. MD45 WAS supposed to be released but one
    problem, the record company will NOT release it into the
    States and I guess Canada as well. It IS available in Japan
    so check the imports. I can't remember what the cd is
    called but if anyone wants a track by track review, I have
    something that I can email to whoever wants it. Also, I
    seriously doubt MD45 will be heavier than the new deth
    material, I heard some new songs already, they kick ass.

    Back to the Kevin GIlbert thing, since he was slated to
    produce the album, the last I heard, DT had like said the
    album was almost done recording, falty source? or
    what...anyone give me a clue?

    "To each his own and his own be damned" or
    No more web page, email me if you have any questions, I'll be getting a new site soon.


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 09:28:26 +0200
    Subject: being different
    Message-ID: <v02130501ade6c1735d04@[]>

    > You decide to stop liking Metallica for one reason...because they
    >started gaining appreciation from the masses. I don't know how long you've
    >been a Metallica fan..if you even were one, but if you were from back in the
    >Ride or Puppets days maybe, did you back then think "Man, Metallica deserves
    >more credit and fans for what they're doing." And now, they do. Take this,
    >for instance, which was what I did for a while. I used to advertise loudly
    >that alternative music was crap and worthless, but I was doing it because I
    >wanted to be different than the everybody else. Arguing for the sake of
    >arguing. But, I couldn't change the fact that I liked a good portion of it.
    >Since then, I've decided that I don't really care what people think about my
    >musical taste...and let the "alternative sucks" thing go. Maybe that is the
    >case with decided to stop liking Metallica because everybody else
    >does, and you want to be different. This isn't an accusation, I'm just
    >trying to make you think. I didn't realize that I was doing it for a while.
    >Don't get me wrong, I like DT because I like DT..not because I want to be

    Excellent point, Ben. In fact, a part of the success of prog IMO is related
    to the fact that prog fans feel being part of a restricted "elite", i.e.
    they know that they're among a few number of fans who like x or y prog
    group. Really, prog isn't THAT popular, mass-wise, I mean. I really dig FW,
    for instance, but I'm also proud of liking a group no one has ever heard
    of, it's a feeling of exclusiveness (is that right English?). Now, if prog
    becomes mainstream, i.e. if DT (the one actually with the most potential)
    becomes mainstream, I wonder how fans (incl. myself) would react. Can
    people stay with the music, or decide to move on to other groups that will
    give them back that lost feeling of exclusiveness?

    >But, if maintaining their long-time fan's respect means restricting change
    >that's bound to happen in almost any band, then is that such a good thing?

    When masses start digging your so cherished group, you feel robbed of
    something. I just hope that masses will go towards DT and not the other way
    round. Because that's selling out. I also hope that you will always like DT
    because you like DT and not because you like to be different. I myself
    don't know: I think there's a bit of both in me. I start a group because of
    the music, of course, but get more into it TO BE DIFFERENT, somewhere. But
    the music is still important. Otherwise, I wouldn't have dropped bands like
    Metallica, Testament, Anthrax, Crimson Glory, etc.


    Dave King
    "holding on is easier than letting go" (fw)


    Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 23:21:23 PST
    From: Mark Smeets <>
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1621
    Message-ID: <>

    ** Reply to note from 06/13/96 10:44pm -0700

    ANy chance of a DT/Savatage Tour? I picked up Ghost in the
    Ruins, the Criss Olivia Tribute cd, holy fucking shit this
    guy can play. It's like your listening to Dave Murray,
    KK.Downing, Marty Friedman, Ritchie Blackmore and Joe
    Satriani all rolled up into 1 guitarist. Oh yea, did I
    mention he must be like, Randy Rhoads' soul mate or
    something, their styles are so similiar.

    Has Savatage ever toured with DT? I know they toured with
    Maiden, well, both bands have but that is the extent I
    know. Has anyone got the japan live album? I'm a big
    Skolnic fan, I was wondering if it was worth getting.
    Is there a Savatage Mailing list? Can you Tell I am really
    into these guys now hehe.


    "To each his own and his own be damned" or
    No more web page, email me if you have any questions, I'll be getting a new site soon.


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 07:35:56 -0400
    Subject: Metallica (for the last time)
    Message-ID: <>

    >> For people who say Metallica hasn't sold out, what does a band
    >>have to do to sell out? Personally I don't see how Metallica could try
    >>any harder to sell out.
    >So then, if once you you wrote long, epic, heavy songs, and now you write
    >short, simple songs, you sold out? Oh ok, 'scuse my ignorance..

    Load songs? Short? Scuze me, but The Sortest Song on the album is Cure, and
    that's almost 4 minutes. Most songs on the album are 5-6 minutes long, and
    Bleeding Me is over 8 minutes long. I think that's the longest Metallica song
    out there (Other than the live version of Seek & Destroy) I hate that I keep
    talking about the new 'Tallica, but it's the biggest thing in the music world
    right now. I've waited 5 years for this album and I'm not gonna let the first
    month of it being here go by without a few thoughts on it. As far as bands
    evolving, think of how different Balance is from VH1, or Youthanasia from
    Killing is My Business, or Ozzmosis from Blizzard of Ozz. But it's true,
    Slayer still sounds the same as they did 10 years ago. (Not that that's a bad



    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:46:09 GMT
    From: (Tom Baddley)
    Subject: Denver, CO Area Jammers?
    Message-ID: <>

    Well, after living in the Dallas, TX vicinity for almost 10 years, my
    company just informed me that we were going to be relocating to
    Boulder, Colorado. I have to move out there in less than a month
    (kinda sounds like some bad news a doctor gives you..."you have less
    than a month..."). It looks like this time next month, I'll be
    living in the Westminster area.

    Of course, one of the first things that I did was drag out my DT tour
    shirts and check the city listings. My I&W shirt didn't have a list,
    but my Awake shirt showed that they played Denver on 11/22/94. Did
    anyone catch this show? I'm sure that they played a relatively small
    venue, and I know they kicked ass. I'd love to see them play at Red
    Rocks sometime! Anyway, it was at least some consolation that I
    should be able to catch them when they tour the US next year.

    So, with the prospect of leaving everyone and everything I know behind
    in the Lone Star state, I'm going to be looking for some people in
    the Denver / Boulder area to help keep me occupied. I figured I'd
    start with you Jammer's first, since we already have at least 1 strong
    common bond. If any of you live in this area, I'd like to hear from
    you. Actually I just have some questions like "Who's runs a good ISP
    in the area?" "Where are some cool places to climb?" and most
    importantly "Where can I either hang glide or paraglide in the area?".
    E-mail me privately at if you can help me out in
    any way.

    Tom Baddley

    "Let's stare the problem right in the eye
     It's plagued me from coast to coast
     Racing the clock to please everyone
     All but the one that matters the most" Dream Theater



    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:58:24 -0500 (CDT)
    From: John Mastin <>
    Subject: Cool stuff in LA
    Message-ID: <>

    Greetings from the roving Ytsejammer! My latest stop is Los Angeles where
    I had the great opportunity to meet up with Airdance and her friends. A
    friend of hers, Vicky Pratt Keating, was playing at Ghengis Cohen. I
    stopped out for the show and then four of us grabbed dinner at this
    Italian place. Really, really cool to hangout with all of them. If you
    get the chance, go to your nearest Border's Book Store and pick up a copy
    of Vicky's album. Pretty mellow and kinda folkish. Go get a copy and help
    her out! :D

    Johnny Motown

      ___  ____ __
     | _ \/ __/|  \    John Mastin, Jr.
     |  _/\__ \| \ \   Pencom Systems Administration   email:
     |_|  /___/|_|__\  Turned loose at: Hughes, El Segundo, CA 

    "Just because you ARE a character does not mean that you HAVE character." -Winston Wolf, Pulp Fiction


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 12:02:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Ryan P. Skadberg" <> To: Subject: Harp / MB / SFAM? Message-ID: <>

    Hey all ...

    First lemme say........ ITS FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK THE LORD. :)

    First and foremost. The Great Southside Controversy is over, no links to Jimmy. If you have no clue of what I am talking about, ignore it :)

    Second, as for harmonica players. If you wanna hear some real harmonica players, I have 2 suggestions. Bob Dylan and Neil Young. Both very excellent at the instrument.

    Mike Bahr as producer. Yes yes yes. It would just rock. I have evrything that Mike has done and its definately improved as it has gone along, so I feel it would be an excellent choice.

    Well, I almost have everything Mike has done. My SFAM is still not in my mailbox and considering I have 19 & 20 I am sad. But, hopefully they will arrive today and start the weekend off right :)

    Later Skadz

    -- +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ | Ryan P Skadberg | | s y s t e m . a d m i n i s t r a t o r / w e b . d e v e l o p e r | | | +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+ \ "And every prayer we pray at night has somehow lost its meaning" / \ "Dead Winter Dead" - Savatage / +-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+


    End of YTSEJAM Digest 1622 **************************

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