YTSEJAM digest 1629

Date: Tue Jun 18 1996 - 10:24:02 EDT

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                                YTSEJAM Digest 1629

    Today's Topics:

      1) vernon reid- irving plaza, 6/17
      2) subjects piss me off
     by RipZero <>
      3) Ytsejam and culture?
     by (Neil Gallop)
      4) 1628 Miasma
     by Gilbert Thetgyi <102346.2730@CompuServe.COM>
      5) Logic...
     by Achilles <>
      6) only one to like "innocence faded"? nah
     by <> "Raitz H."
      7) Savatage Dead Summer Dead/new Def Leppard
     by Pat Daugherty <>
      8) Re: Pat Boone meets Metallica?!?!?!?!
     by Monty Newberry <>
      9) Innocence Faded/Def Leppard
     by BERTAPELLE ADAM RAYE <bertapel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
     10) (U)Midwest progress
     by "Steven Johnson" <>


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 03:14:17 -0400
    Subject: vernon reid- irving plaza, 6/17
    Message-ID: <>

    the "what is jazz?" festival began tonight here in nyc.

    jazz- i walk in, and all i see is these kids that could have fit in as extras
    in the movie "kids" (grungy, skateheaded, alternatif folk), and some dj was
    spinning these horrible beats for over an hour. finally, the moment came.

    i saw vernon reid probably play the best i've ever seen him.

    he was clean, he was on, and damnit- it sounded terrific. he had a great
    band. the drummer was incredible (kinda like manu katche with the
    forcefulness of mike b. from the new power generation), awesome
    sax/clarinetist, awesome bassist, a dj, a trumpet/flugel guy, and this guy
    called the "doctor" playing this weird thing that looked like a keyboard, and
    he was making these crazy synth-like sounds.

    it was a good night. and since i am tired, and it is 3 am, i go to bed now.


    "turn off your mind, relax, and float downstream...."


    "...funk not only moves, it removes..."
                                                 -g. clinton


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 02:48:42 -0500
    From: RipZero <>
    To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <>
    Subject: subjects piss me off
    Message-ID: <>

    > D00d! What the hell are they teaching in publik skools
    > these daze??? Like, _everybody_ knows that it's *winter*
    > over there when it's *summer* over here! Get a clue !>)>

    dude, sez right here- "Recorded in New York City, June-August 1995" i
    dunno what yer smokin', but june july and august is fucking summer in
    New York! :)

            ~Rip port 5150

    ok ok so it doesnt exist YET but it will soon enough my friends ;)

    once again-


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 10:59:34 +0200
    From: (Neil Gallop)
    Subject: Ytsejam and culture?
    Message-ID: <>

    Hi all

    since I've been on the Jam I've taken a lot of flames, most of them unjustified
    and one or two deserved. While the general tenor of flames can be quite hard,
    they are usually written in reasonably civilized language that makes it clear
    that most (but not all) of the people on the jam are in some way fairly
    civil and cultured. But today I received a reply to a private e-mail that
    changed my mind. This whole thing has it's origins in a mail a few digests ago
    that called all people who like the album Load "fucking idiots". First is my
    mail to the originator, followed by this person's reply:

    >Thanks for reminding me what a fucking idiot I am: jeez, I was beginning to get
    >worried for a minute there. I seriously thought I was in danger of becoming a
    >normal member of the jam, but then comes your golden contribution to the jam
    >1624 and hey, I'm just a fucking idiot.
    >If I can return the favour any time, just let me know
            Think i give a shit.. your just a fuckin idiot... i don't want your
    tasteless kind on the jam.. and if you like load you must have something
    wrong wiht your head.. or the other problem, your an idiot..

    The Ytsejam a civilized list? I think not. I'm sorry to have to make this public
    but do we really want to share what is basically still a good list with this
    sort of person? It has rarely been my misfortune to have dealings with such a
    bigot. Be honest: if you were drinking in a nice bar and this person came in,
    using this language and being so open-minded, I think most of you would either
    leave the bar or ask the management to have the person removed. Still, it's
    nice to know that I'm tasteless.

    stay safe and happy listening
    Neil Gallop

    Currently playing: Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks


    Date: 18 Jun 96 06:52:20 EDT
    From: Gilbert Thetgyi <102346.2730@CompuServe.COM>
    To: ytsejam <>
    Subject: 1628 Miasma
    Message-ID: <960618105219_102346.2730_HHQ32-1@CompuServe.COM>

    >Yep...Makes you appreciate John Wetton!

    Disc 2 of the "Frame By Frame" boxed set rules.

    >BTW, I think the old Zep tune would be "Dazed and Confused," which probably
    >applies to a lot of Jammers. :)

    The somewhat recent movie by the same name could also apply to the younger
    'Jammers: increased demographics!

    >But a long while back someone posted that John M would be the 2nd hardest
    >DT member to replace (2nd to JP, of course). Personally, I'd have to
    >disagree. Though JM is a fantastic player, there are lots of really good
    >bassists out there hiding out in lesser-known bands, or doing studio work
    >with solo musicians. I suppose it's just the shy quality of many bass players.

    I have to disagree: you're forgetting all of John M's technical abilities,
    presence, compositional contributions, longevity, and the legendary boots
    (footwear, not audio). If Doc Martens can sponsor the "Smokin' Grooves"
    tour, they most definitely can sponsor DT next time around. The boots are back
    in town!

    >Someone's been watching Fantasia.

    Actually, Feyd is probably playing the actual pieces, in his many gigs...

    >impatiently waiting for the 6-string bass he ordered to come in

    impatiently waiting for fisher-price to get with it and update their 4-strings
    6-strings, it's all he can afford

    >My fellow Metallica fans... Um, er, wow, for a minute there, I thought
    >that I was on the Metallica list. :D

    Good: at least we don't need to use them swearin' words.

    >There was also one that floated around that went like "When PAt Boone sings
    >Heavy Metal. Well, Pat Boone is going to record a metal album. No joke. I
    >heard part of his "Enter Sandman" cover. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    I've read about it also, in different major publications. I can't wait until
    this is
    released so my Dad and I can listen to Metallica together and sing "Last Caress"
    and "So What". Well, everything but the singing part.

    >I've seen QUEENSRYCHE in concert (Blew everyone away) and liked 'em for
    >years before that.

    Out of the 30 shows I've seen, Queensryche's Toledo show for the Road to the
    Promised Land was definitely the best. And I've seen DT for I&W, Rush
    for Counterparts, Yes for Talk, Metallica for Justice and Roam, and Van Halen
    Carnal Knowledge, Right Here, Right Now; and Balance.
            I guess Peter Collins will be producing someone else instead of 'Ryche
    next. This pushes QR's release date from winter 1996 to early 1997...

    >Yeah, I'm "THAT" old.

    Being older has its benefits: legality, wisdom, and hopefully respect.

    >Anyone know when/where/if the Midwest Ytse-con will be coming? I heard late
    >July in Chicago or Milw. several months ago. Anyone know?! And just what is

    Contact Steve Johnson. It's July 26-28 in the #3 market of the country,
    It's an audio and video extravaganza for the mind and liver. And don't mention
    Black Album ;)

    >i could send you the pics on a disk if you want, just email me your address :)

    Please send me Dunlop Tortex Jazz picks: the green, pointy ones.

    >and now for the important part...for my Multimedia class i have to do a
    >major project. i would like some suggestions from you guys...i've already
    >about doing a CD-ROM (we'll eventually put the projects onto cds) which would
    >"Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Dream Theater" kind of thing.
    >what i'd need is permission from people to use their stuff. but i'd like to see
    if any
    >of you have some other ideas on a possible multimedia project that features DT.

    I think since the summer is going slow, now would be a great time for a Prism
    CD-ROM featuring audio and video clips of our Grand Admiral Bahr making each
    of those nifty releases.

    >I couldn't have said that much better myself. If an "open mind" means not
    >discriminating against crap that deserves no respect, than I can't understand
    >how an "open mind" would like Dream Theater, because that mind would accept
    >the latest fads (Bush and those other awful bands) as much as the great band
    >that this list is dedicated to. (For the record, I have not heard most of
    >Load, and I will not comment on it. I was not referring to Load above.)

    An "open mind" liking DT doesn't necessary imply being hip to the latest trends.
    The majority of 'Jammers don't care for alternative, or the "popular" types of
    music now. It's both a blessing and a burden. For example, we all know how
    much we like DT but when we try to convert our friends, the initial reactions
    nothing like our own. I've also noticed that the bands that are successful
    right now
    are clones in one way or another of previously successful bands. Bush is
    capitalizing (literally) on the Seattle scene and Flea has referred to them as
    "Milli Vanilli" of alternative music. Silverchair is another act that sounds
    familiar to their Pearl Jam and Soundgarden influences. Finally, Oasis is just
    another attempt to replicate the Beatles, among others. These groups make it
    palatable for fans of groups that are already established, and want something
    Whereas, groups with originality and innovation (like DT) are left to fend for
    themselves. That's what the market dictates, unfortunately. It's all cyclical.
    until 2000, and maybe "prog" will kick off the next millenium in the right

    >How many of you agree with me that Mr. Kizer should get himself a state job

    "The State" was a really funny show, despite all of the terrible reviews...

    >There are far, far too many government jobs at state and federal levels (and
    >probably local, as well). Please find employment in the private sector.

    Until another recession or depression leaves you without a job and mouths to
    feed. Civil service jobs have good benefits, and they are less susceptible to
    market fluctuations. Screw welfare, rugged individualism is in need of a

    >Like if you could get an unoffical copy of the next Dream Theater album
    >you wouldn't jump on the offer?

    No, witness protection programs aren't my cup of tea.

    > Is the Guitar Center in Boston (where John's clinic is scheduled) that
    >place on Commonwealth Avenue near Boston University?

    No, it's the place overlooking the Pacific Ocean...just kidding.

    >Does anyone here like Ayn Rand or Bruce Springsteen?

    Talk to Feyd about Rand. Bruce is okay, but Max Weinberg is the man! One
    of the reasons why I watch "Late Night with Conan O'Brien" every night. The
    Max Weinberg 7 always look like they're having fun while playing, and that's
    something I'd like to emulate.

    > Jeff Falk

    "Where's your crown? King Noth-...uh...uh, forget it..."

    >I got an idea for a new ytsejam t-shirt...But on the back, put "PROG'S NOT
    >DEAD" as opposed to PUNK'S NOT DEAD.... howz about it?

    Actually, I'd prefer any shirt bearing DT's likeness to have positive
    denotations, as
    well as connotations. Prog isn't about dying, it's about growing musically as
    as physically.

    >RUSH PHUQING RULZ!! I had forgetten that they do that:) I just bought Exit
    >Stage Left and All the World's a Stage...I hadn't heard YYZ live in so long.

    The "Test For Echo" cover art sounds cool, it probably will make a great poster
    (wall hanging, not 'Jammer).

    >Anybody who has a mind open enough to appreciate DT, and doesn't like the
    >Beatles, is a hypocrite ;) ;) ;)

    Just wait until Mike Portnoy is a member of Ringo Starr's All-Star band in
    the 5th album and the live double-disc...

    >HEEEEEEEY!!! I'm seeing Ozzy on Letterman... IS THAT ROBERT TRUJILLO
    >PLAYING BASS????? YES!!!!! now THAT is an awesome bass player....

    Yeah, but did you catch Mike "Puffy" Bordin of Faith No More on drums!? What's
    up with that? Last I heard, FNM acquired a new guitar player, can anyone
    Also, it was funny to see middle-aged and senior citizens swaying their arms
    Ozzy's command. The man they didn't want their kids to listen to has come full
    circle! "Retirement" truly does suck!

    >Funky Cold Medina
    >Ernie :)

    Ernie needs 50 dollars to make you holler, he gets paid to do the wild thing!

    > Anyone else notice how quiet it gets when Me, Mojo, and D-man don't
    >post? Well I am back.

    Really? All you guys getting engaged and out of your subdivisons...

    >If anyone wants to check out his web page the addres is
    >Please do not fill his mailbox with stupid questions however, or I will be
    >cut off from hearing more stuff, and then I become miserable.

    PLEASE, potential 'Jammers, don't abuse this great opportunity...

    > Mojoman; BD real soon, it pays to close the store sometimes!!!!!!!

    ..It's close to pay the store...

    >PS Does anyone have Negatron, by Voivod? Please email me, I got it but
    >there is no multimedia track on the disc!

    "Decepticons retreat!" Oh, an "N", not an "M".

    >What you subscribe must?
    >What think about it do you?

    "Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda, you know which film.

                                                    The House I Built,

                                                    G. Jack Thetgyi


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 11:59:19 +0100 (BST)
    From: Achilles <>
    Subject: Logic...
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960618115511.6363A-100000@exeter>

    I just had some rotten Logic exam, and I thought I'd say something here ;)

    Alternative is Shit ( p =3D> q )
    Load is Alternative ( p is true for Load)
    Load is Shit ( q is true for Load)

    ok, now go ahead and tell me my logic is flawed!!! ;=DE

    *** Disclamer, this post is NOT to be taken seriously!!!

    Achilles \"Don't kiss me goodbye 'cause it's never too late"
    Metalhead and \ Shock Paris - Exhibit A
    Dream Theater fan \__________________________________________________


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:38:54 +2000
    From: <> "Raitz H."
    Subject: only one to like "innocence faded"? nah
    Message-ID: <>

    > Am I the only person on here that thinks that "Innocence Faded" is one of the
    > top two or three songs on Awake?

    well i can't say about top three or even two, but "innocence faded"
    is definitely a very good piece of music. i never quite realized why
    people who praise "voices", "scarred" and "metropolis" very often
    dismiss those songs that are a bit shorter and at first sight a lot

    right on.


    "and if it's you that shatters me,
       there will be nothing else that matters to me"


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:24:31 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Pat Daugherty <>
    To: Dream Theater Mailing List <>
    Subject: Savatage Dead Summer Dead/new Def Leppard
    Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960618091614.25473E-100000@bdmserver>

    > anyone else notice that Dead Winter Dead was recorded in June
    > July and August?
    > :)
    > ~Rip
    > D00d! What the hell are they teaching in publik skools
    > these daze??? Like, _everybody_ knows that it's *winter*
    > over there when it's *summer* over here! Get a clue !>)>
    > Zach

    I dont know where you went to school but last I checked, Sarayevo (Sp)
    was in the same hemisphere as we are. That means if it is winter here it
    is winter there.

    I know I may be opening a can of worms here, but did any jammers pick up the
    new Def Leppard cd Slang? Apparently in USENET it has received the same
    attention as LOAD. You either hate it or like it. DL like Metallica took
    a new approach. I think DL changed more. LOAD to me is just TBA part 2.

    I like Slang too, much better than Adrenalize.

    | Pat Daugherty |
    | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
    | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files |
    |The Baltimore Orioles-The team to beat in 1996!!!!!!! | Go DC United! |


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 09:02:31 -0500
    From: Monty Newberry <>
    Subject: Re: Pat Boone meets Metallica?!?!?!?!
    Message-ID: <>

    > Someone said that they heard "Enter Sandman" in St Louis. Now for the
    > scary news. There used to be a quote that went like "When Hell freezes
    > over". There was also one that floated around that went like "When PAt
    > Boone sings Heavy Metal. Well, Pat Boone is going to record a metal
    > album. No joke. Word has it that it is going to have Iron Maiden, Ozzy
    > covers on it. I actually heard part of his "Enter Sandman" cover. Be
    > afraid. Be very afraid.
            AHHHHHH!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!!!!! It
    was me that mentioned hearing "Enter Sandman" on the alterna-station in
    St. Louis. You know. That's kind of funny about Pat Boone, because I
    just saw a short clip of Dweezil and Ahmet Zappa doing part of a Sabbath
    tune (not sure which one) with (no joke here kids) John Tesh on Conan
    O'Brien last night. I must say that it was one of the most hilarious
    things I've seen on the show (ranks up there with the Hendrix-esque
    version of the theme from 'Friends' Conan played once on his show). I
    would say about the Boone thing that this is an example of change that
    is not good (to understate it). It should be kind of funny, though.
    We'll wait and see. Yeah, I could see him doing "Number of the Beast"
    (cringe). Later.

                                            Dale R. Newberry

            P.S. Where on earth did you hear this little bit of scary


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:15:10 -0600 (MDT)
    From: BERTAPELLE ADAM RAYE <bertapel@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <>
    Subject: Innocence Faded/Def Leppard
    Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.93.960618080930.9662C-100000@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>

    On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Pat Daugherty wrote:

    > I know I may be opening a can of worms here, but did any jammers pick up the
    > new Def Leppard cd Slang? Apparently in USENET it has received the same
    > attention as LOAD. You either hate it or like it. DL like Metallica took
    > a new approach. I think DL changed more. LOAD to me is just TBA part 2.
    > I like Slang too, much better than Adrenalize.
    First, about Innocence Faded as one of the top 2 or 3 songs on Awake---I
    couldn't agree more. I rememeber when I got an advance copy before
    release date, my first reaction to that song was "Oh, here's the Bon
    Jovi-ish song for the album, but as I listened, the better it got. I
    think it's a fantastic all-around piece of music...sealed up with that
    nifty little guitar outro....whoo!

    Def Leppard's Slang....I like it! I've been a fan of DL since High N Dry,
    and I have all their albums to date, even though I despise some of them.
    But Slang is unlike anything they've ever done before. It is so 90's
    sounding, without incorporating the gloom and dispair of most bands out
    there. Lots of production went into this album, and I would totally
    recommend it to any current or ex- DL fan just so you can hear how they've
    Adam R. Bertapelle "Scuse me...while I kiss this guy!" Jimi Hendrix
    Ask for my bootleg list! Purple Haze


    Date: 18 Jun 1996 09:01:09 GMT
    From: "Steven Johnson" <>
    Subject: (U)Midwest progress
    Message-ID: <>

    Here's the latest Mytse-Con info. I hope we get a good group together. Make
    reservations ASAP and lemme kno when you do! Thanks.


    "You may remember me from such movies as 'The Revenge of Abe
    Lincoln' and 'The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'"
                                               - actor Troy McClure
    *** Forwarding note from ZSVJ01 --CTSVMC 05/24/96 14:31 ***

    FROM: Steven Johnson P&GA, ext. 6066
    Subject: (U)Midwest progress

    OK, Kiddies!

    Bigman is making some good headway on the tishirts. I don't have his email in
    from of me so I can't tell you to get in touch with him. I'll resend it next
    week for those who don't have it.

    ANYWAY! The Mytse-Con will be held the weekend of July 26-27-28 (Fri., Sat.,
    Sun.) Right now, we are gonna hold it at Chicago Draft House (details coming)
    because hotel meeting rooms are too expensive, non existent or a lot lesscomfy
    that a cool Lincoln Park bar. I'm in negotiations with the owners regarding
    private space, drinks, food, etc. It is in close porximity to many music
    venues, it's in the heart of young Chicago, cabs are plentiful and it's a walk
    from the hotel.

    SPEAKING OF WHICH.....I reserved a block of 15 hotel rooms (based on response
    far) at the Days Inn on Diversey (a place many music acts stay when doing
    Chicago shows). Here's the skinny:

    COST: $84/night for 2 double beds (4 people per room=$21/night...not bad,
    especially if you sneak one or two more into the room to make it cheaper)

    PARKING: is at a mall garage .5 blocks away...$7/24 hrs.

    The rooms are under the name of Steve Johnson. You must call and reserve on
    your own (so I don't get stuck with rooms) and reserve with a credit card.

    You must reserve before July 12!!! They need two weeks notice. ALSO! You
    may concel up to 4 P.M. day of arrival.

    Hotel stats: 646 W. Diversey, (312) 525-7010...ask for the G.M., "Kat"
    As for sights, the hotel is 1 mile south of Wrigley Field and 3 miles
    north of the Magnificent Mile. A quality position. It is also only a
    10-15 minute walk from the bar/potential Con location. NO NEED TO DRIVE!

    So start discussing with each other/friends as to who's going. PLEASE send
    me a note when you have a positive number from your group!!! I want to
    keep track for the Con site and if I need to snag more rooms! I think every-
    one's got a list of e-mail addresses for those interested. I'm gonna post
    this info to the Jam, too, to see if there are others interested.

    As we all can guess, this will most likely be sans DT as they're backed
    up with recording, etc. But we're still trying. I think it'll be a cool
    weekend meeting Jammers and doing some partying in Chicago especially
    for those who don't get here much/at all. LATER-


    "You may remember me from such movies as 'Dial M for
    Murderousness' and 'The Erotic Adventures of Hurcules'"
                                               - actor Troy McClure


    End of YTSEJAM Digest 1629

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