YTSEJAM digest 1623

Date: Fri Jun 14 1996 - 23:21:05 EDT

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                                YTSEJAM Digest 1623

    Today's Topics:

      1) Dream Theater Discography? plus TIPS
     by "Asi Louzon" <>
      2) KC, and more odd stuff
     by Cliff & Pam Wheaton <>
      3) various stuff
     by Pat Daugherty <>
      4) Cool. Somebody wrote a bunch of crap to me. :-)
     by Ben Laussade <>
      5) Cover songs
     by Greg Slang <>
      6) FW: load
     by LRW <>
      7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1622
     by (Barb Battaglia)
      8) YTSEJAM digest 1622
     by "Steven Johnson" <>
      9) self-producing
     10) laken' fingers?
     by mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
     11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1622
     by Steve Mueller <SD.MUELLER@HOSP.WISC.EDU>
     12) ADAM SAndler be here in KC
     13) JPvid$/ytsejam & ACOS/JM
     by Robert Andrew Jurado <>
     14) FW: Lot's of silly questions (YTSEJAM POST... please forward)


    Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:19:57 +0000
    From: "Asi Louzon" <>
    Subject: Dream Theater Discography? plus TIPS
    Message-ID: <>

    Hello there.

    Well, i have bought the Dream Theater album, AWAKE, and i have to say
    that it's really great, and i really love it.
    I have one question though... Can someone there wanna tell me what is
    DT best album? I never heard of them, and now, after i have bought
    their AWAKE, i wanna buy some more.
    So, please, send me directly your opinion (hamlaza).
    10x guys/girls. (yeah right!.)
    bout the new form metallica. SUX. it;s NOT NOT NOT NOT Metallica.

           \ /
      \ /
          X X Asi Louzon X X
             I |
        +++++ +++++
                                             "Were's Your Crown King Nothing?"



    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 10:21:28 -0600
    From: Cliff & Pam Wheaton <>
    Subject: KC, and more odd stuff
    Message-ID: <>

    Hi all!!
    happy summertime!!!
    Hey Babs-yes I know where the finger lakes are-My husband hails from
    that area of the country (I'm working convincing him to take me there
    some fall:)

    I find it interesting that since i just managed to acquire a copy of
    KC's "In the Court of the Crimson King", the threds have gone to
    them.Thanks for the post on their lineup as of now-But one question: am
    I assuming correctly that the Greg Lake mentioned In the liner notes is
    the same as Greg Lake of ELP? If so-cool!!
    Keep rockin'!

                    Pam Wheaton
              </__"Rockin Cabbie"__\o
                 0               0 
                   Cliff Wheaton
        The greatest tool for world Peace.
                  "THE INTERNET"


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:03:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <> Subject: various stuff Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960614125203.8985Q-100000@bdmserver>

    1. I am sure that the "Good Times" virus is a hoax. It looks like somone increased the damage that it does. There's been a lot of the good times warnings sent around and also a lot of messages saying it is a hoax. Email messages are strictly ascii and unless you convert it to binary and execute it, you don't have to worry about it. If it is an attachment you can even save the attachment to file but if you dont execute it you are fine.

    Can any email gurus back this up?

    If you check every binary file for viruses, you receive in the mail before you execute it, you will be fine.

    2. Buying cds from cd clubs. I used to be a member of BMG, Columbia House, and CD HQ. They had these great deals of 10-12 cds for the price of 1. It eventually works out to about $4 for a brand new cd. I usually use the clubs to upgrade to cd from tapes that I have or to finish out my collection for certain groups like Rush for example. Or I might buy a cd that I wouldn't want to pay full price for. I usually buy new releases the day they come out (if I can find them). Columbia House and CD HQ are teh best and most reliable. The only gripe with them is that they are alwasy out of cds that I want. BMG is pretty messed up. I guess I will get banned by them...

    I haven't seen any of the Columbia House 10 for 1 deals lately, just the 10 for 6. Just wait until the 10 for one deal is doen again or take your chances with BMG.

    3. I guess it is not good for DT to produce their own album DT has so many talented musicians and each would want their parts intensified, etc.

    But with a band like Van Halen for example, I am sure Eddie has a mega say in what is done, since it really is his band.

    |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| |The Baltimore Orioles-The team to beat in 1996!!!!!!! | Go DC United! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:40:43 -0700 From: Ben Laussade <> To: Subject: Cool. Somebody wrote a bunch of crap to me. :-) Message-ID: <>

    >Don't take this wrong, but....have you ever thought that Metallica jus isn'tt >as good as they were before TBA?

    Define "good", please.

    I mean the bottomline could just as well be >that their creativity in the metal genre has run out so they have brought in a >new influence--commercial success on a large scale.

    I happen to like some music that isn't metal. Automatically saying that it stinks because it's not metal is close-mindedness. Metallica isn't LYING to anybody....they don't go around yelling that their music is metal. But, IMO, the newer stuff IS metal. Just a different kind.

    Is it any wonder Jason >Newsted --the newest member of the band--allegedly wants to move in a new >direction? It seems so many people on the Jam want to equate "oldest fans >losing interest" with the inability of those fans' to mature and grow with the >band as well.

    Jason hasn't been in the band as long...he wasn't there for the super-thrash days. Maybe he hasn't gotten enough of that. But, possibly the other guys have, hence the change in musical direction.

    > A band can keep their oldest fans without selling out.

    Wait...selling out doesn't help you keep old fans at all.

    I don't believe >Metallica fits that argument. They have changed so drastically in such a few >number of releases (i.e. AJFA to TBA) that the "maturing" argument is >extremely hard to swallow for the longer term fans.

    Change has to happen sometime, you know. Not all changes are gradual. One day, a man is carefree and never wears a seatbelt....then he sees a car accident and somebody flying through the windshield. From that moment on he wears a seatbelt.

    Not saying 14 year olds >can't appreciate and get crazy to the stuff that came out when they were 4, >but they haven't GROWN with the band. It is a relationship over TIME as well >as musicalappreciation or BELONGING to a certain image.

    Why would you have to watch somebody their whole lives to notice change? If I saw a picture of my next door neighbor from ten years ago and he had different color hair, I'd still be able to notice.

    The fact is that Metallica changed musical directions, and that direction happened to be one that you don't care for. It's as SIMPLE as THAT.

    >I dislike a lot of the alternative music, but I also hated a lot of the metal >that got airplay. It has nothing to do with how many others' like it, it has >to do with who I believe DESERVES the notoriety and WHY. I have no problem >admiting ANYTHING. And anyone who does wouldn't read your post and all of the >sudden say, "Wow. This kid's right!" >

    I wasn't accusing anybody of that. I took an example of something that could happen (happened to me) and gave it to you to see if it maybe happened to you too...I didn't say you did that.

    >The bottom line is Metallica as I know it isn't Metallica anymore.

    Metallica as you LIKE it isn't Metallica anymore.

    Metallica >as YOU know it is the same.

    No they're not.

    You were 9 or 10 when TBA came out. Fine, so you >appreciate the early stuff and other teens do, too. But you haven't seen the >band change through the years.

    Yes, I have. I am CAPABLE of DETECTING CHANGE in a band even if didn't see it when it happened. It's just that I like the change they made in themselves, and you didn't.

    >But as far as I,a long term fan, and many others care, >they have ceased growing and are only changing--and not for the better.

    Better for who? You.

    >If they started playing like U2 in 1987, I'd >have started to hate them, too...AND I LIKE U2.

    I like you too. Man there's a lot of love in this room. :-) But seriously, folks, if Metallica started playing just like they did on Puppets, that would get repetitive. Like I've said many a time, repetitive is boring (to me).

    >But Metallica has to grow as >Metallica, not as some generi-incarnation that is "hip today" (another Extreme > may want to check 'em out. They've remained true to their art >as well as being exceptional musicians.......something Metallica can't claim.)

    AAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There ARE NO RULES IN MUSIC. You DO NOT have to STAY TRUE TO THE FIRST TYPE OF MUSIC YOU PLAYED. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE. ACCEPT IT. All Metallica has done is changed. It's not their fault that people like them now.

    >Bleeding Me is over 8 minutes long. I think that's the longest Metallica song >out there

    <cough> The Thorn Within. Did you not get a last track on your CD? :-) And yeah, it's the longest 'Tallica song.

    I am the thorn within.

    And I listen openly.... What you see is human. Ben Laussade


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 15:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Slang <> To: Subject: Cover songs Message-ID: <>

    With all the talk of the Ronnie Scott's show, I decided to put together a comprehensive list of the covers Dream Theater has performed through the years on my web page. I have a list of about 40 songs currently. If you are curious to see what they've covered and/or know of any songs not included, feel free to stop by my web page.

    Skyway of Nightmares,

    Greg Slang,


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:23:16 -0600 From: LRW <> To: "''" <> Subject: FW: load Message-ID: <>

    ---------- From: LRW[] Sent: Friday, June 14, 1996 1:02 PM To: '' Subject: load

    load is a masterpiece and I don't see how anyone could say that it = sucks. if this was their first album everyone would love it. why must = everyone compare this one to their previous? As for RipZero's comments = (i'm a little behind), he said they want money cause they're always at = least 16. I got mine for 12 and most stores around here have them for = 12-14. they are not trying to stay radio friendly or popular obviously, = or their first video would have been more playable, and they wouldn't = have written songs like outlaw bitch and hate. As a final arguement, if = they were only interested in money, why would they spend all the extra = money making an 80 minute cd when just as many people would buy a 50-60? = maybe that's why rip sees it on sale for $16, cause its worth a whole = lot more.

    This album rocks. It might even be better than the previous, but I = won't say it cause i love lightning and puppets so much. I hope someone = will back me up on this because i know that with the diversity of this = album it must appeal to quite a few jammers. If you don't have it, GET = IT!!!!!!!!!

    Craig Wuthrich


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 14:56:05 -0500 (EST) From: (Barb Battaglia) To: Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1622 Message-ID: <v01510102ade72dae1865@[]>

    >Quality, not quantity, my son. > >>Now before everyone >>jumps on a new thread of of what the definition of a Finger Lake is (which >>I'm sure would be very interesting :P) > >Finger laken' good.

    I knew that the temptation would be too much for some of you (big laugh). What's really funny is reading that after the "quality" quote!

    -BABS PS It's been a long work week!


    Date: 14 Jun 1996 13:56:13 GMT From: "Steven Johnson" <> To: Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1622 Message-ID: <>

    *** Reply to note of 06/14/96 11:13 More quality harmonica.......Stevie Wonder and a bluesman named Charlie Musslewhite. Both are top of their craft.


    *************************************************************** "You may remember me from such movies as 'The Revenge of Abe Lincoln' and 'The Wackiest Covered Wagon in the West'" - actor Troy McClure


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 16:59:49 -0400 From: To: Where The Wild Things Are <> Subject: self-producing Message-ID: <>

    ytsejam digest 1622 Scotchman wrote:

    > Eh. I see the point. Depends on what direction a band might want to go in. > Could be good or bad. Often times a producer is exactly what ends up > reining in a band's creative processes, though-- cutting songs, making tunes > more "accessible," exercising a little organization, and that Objective > Viewpoint is what keeps the band's sessions from dissolving into chaos.

    I'll have to agree with you on that one, bro. That's why you don't see many inexperienced bands produce their own material. Most bands were at one time or another members of some garage or basement band that had to write and perform their own music without help from a professional. Once they've worked with a good producer for a few albums, the band has usually achieved a higher level of musicianship, worthy of criticizing and producing their own music. What an inexperienced band has to realize is that they can't stick with the same sound forever. They have to IMPROVE. Whether this means gaining more skill on their particular instrument or just trying out different methods of producing (i.e. glitzy over-producing, raw energy feel, live feel) is up to them. DT is a really good example of changing styles over a few albums. WDADU was a great album for its era, but the band had to *progress* with the times. Over the years, DT has experimented with different producers and styles, so one can only guess as to who or what they'll try this time around. As for self-producing, I believe that DT is capable of entirely producing their next album. But if they want to wait for a while or, as Scott said, avoid bad press, that's fine with me.

    > On the other hand, look where self-producing can go. Jimmy Page produced all > Led Zeppelin's releases, and ended up pioneering rock music in both > songwriting (intricate, complex, multi-styled music) and production (loudly > mixed drums, weird guitar/vocal effects, unorthodox recording methods).

    sure, but the critics blasted those unorthodox recording methods. But then again, they managed to pioneer an industry and develop a huge following that way.

    > Uh, I can't think of any more examples, except maybe for Mr. > Bungle (who self-produced their 2nd record Disco Volante, in the > heretofore-thought-impossible task of out-weirding their first John > Zorn-produced album).

    right. I can just picture Patton and the guys listening to the sound effects of some guy taking a monster shit from their first album and saying,

    "You know, this isn't weird enough. What we need is an album made up entirely of digital playback and sound effects, and almost no real instruments whatsoever. Yeah, that's what we're looking for."

    OK, I'm done now.

    later, "You can't kill me...I'm building a house!!" dave. Gene Hackman, Unforgiven


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 14:03:57 PST From: mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM To: Subject: laken' fingers? Message-ID: <9605148347.AA834786142@CCGATE.HAC.COM>

    >>Quality, not quantity, my son. >> >>Finger laken' good. >I knew that the temptation would be too much for some of you (big laugh). >What's really funny is reading that after the "quality" quote! > >-BABS >PS It's been a long work week! Work? I don't think most people here would consider cruising the net and downloading sound files all day, "work".... 8^) You knew I would have to comment on that one! -Mike .~~~~~~~ Michael Kizer -- Computer Sciences Corporation (Tucson, AZ) ~~~~~~~. | Email: (preferred) -or- | | WWW: <--- Dream Theater Song Book here!| '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'


    Date: 14 Jun 1996 16:22:54 -0600 From: Steve Mueller <SD.MUELLER@HOSP.WISC.EDU> To: Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1622 Message-ID: <>

    In response to Grinder's Internet Virus Announcement...

    The Good Times "virus" is actually just that text that you see. It lives by people forwarding it around the net... To my knowledge, this has been going on for over a year. It started as an experiment to see how quickly rumors spread on the internet. As for the PKZIP300, I have no idea....

    John Petrucci rules!

    Steve Mueller


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:56:20 -0500 From: To: Subject: ADAM SAndler be here in KC Message-ID: <>

    Has anyone happen to catch the ADAM SANDLER tour? He will be here in Kansas City on June 21st. I can't wait!!!

    If you want to hear something funny as ever, then call: (816)691-UPKC (8752)

    Let me know what you think. It is 24 hour funny voice mail. It is a FREE call, but L/D charges may apply. write me. I am looking for comedy writers.


    The NEW DREAM THEATER stickers should be out soon. I will have a picture on the net over the next 15 days. (I hope). You can look at:

    (look under merchandise)

    Like I said, give me about 15 days or so to get the new stickers up on the net.

    Take care,

    Todd s



    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 17:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Andrew Jurado <> To: Subject: JPvid$/ytsejam & ACOS/JM Message-ID: <>

    Hey all...

    Long post here...covering a variety of topics. In case you're inclined to skip 'n' skim through's the summary/table of contents...

    1. JP video...found a nice price 2. Ytsejam's role in release of ACOS 3. JM gets funky

    * * * JP: ^^ I just was at work and I saw a catalog for Florida's Thoroughbred Music in the recycling. So...I was checking s*&% out and I found the JP video "Rock Discipline" for...what...I think $34.95. $5.00 shipping for those of you east of the Mississippi river and $7.00 for us poor suckers in the West. So...there you have it. Not the $50 I've seen elsewhere. What did I do...I called the toll free number and ordered me one. First Card will be very happy. Sure...I only saved about $8, but hey...that's a third of a Mike Bahr CD. :) It's half of LiT, which you ought to get if you don't have it, BTW. Man...I love his solo bit. "Ladies and gentlemen...Mr. John Petrucci..." BTW that is "Barf Bag" right?

    * * * Oops: Something weird just happened. I'm using a new version of Pine, and I think I might have sent part of this message already--even though all I meant to do was to postpone it. that i think about it...that probably didn't happen. Sorry if it did.

    * * *

    ACOS: ^^^^ Okay...I'm a newbie, but I was wondering if one of you ytse-veterans could let me know what was the ytsejam's role in the release of ACOS. I'm kind of curious. I just checked the FAQ, and either I missed it or it's not in there. Did you all do a "Trekkie" and write DT and East/West 5 billion times to get ACOS released? (Not that I'm busting on you Trekkies...or is the PC term "Trekker"? :) I heavily dig ST from TOS, TNG, DS9...Still waiting for ST:V to come around, though.) I've written A&M to support Extreme and Nuno.

    So as I understand it...ACOS was performed a couple of times, and y'all must have heard about it from some lucky jammer(s) who saw the show(s). Then...I imagine some people must have said "What is this ACOS thing?!? When will they release it? Has Mike Bahr recorded/got his hands on it?!?" So I imagine y'all clamored for it, and it came out. How'd it happen, folks? Thanks in advance. Sorry for being so ignorant...

    * * *

    JM gets funky: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lastly, we all know Myung rocks, but does anyone out there thing that JM is especially cool in Scarred? Damn he's good!!!!!!


    ****************************************************************************** Robert Andrew Jurado ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "There was so much life in me..." -Mike Portnoy in ACOS ******************************************************************************


    Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 23:11:26 PDT From: To: Ytsejam <> Subject: FW: Lot's of silly questions (YTSEJAM POST... please forward) Message-ID: <>

    --- On Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Andy <ytsejam@UDel.Edu> wrote: Thank you rob..... and hello to the one or two people who might have missed me. I have a few questions... and if people could e-mail back with answers that would rule.

    I talked with Chris Buzby, of echolyn, via e-mail, about the new album. The new echolyn ablum. If anybody has definate dates on that please, please send me info. (And don't say check qghost web page... because I am without web access).

    Second....I need to know information of the King Crimson summer tour. If Mike Backof could e-mail his address (one last time -- that's for the echolyn tapes), and let me also know about the MPP KC show that would rule.

    And I guess that's it... HEY MIKE BAHR.... I am buying a car this week, but I think I'll finally get you money for Scenes and AQ.... thanks mike.

    Have fun at the Clinic kids... I'll be working my ass off selling shoes... :(


    Andrew Miller "Where do I take this pain of mine, ytsejam@Udel.Edu I run but it stays right by my side." --or-- -Lars Ulrich

    -----------------End of Original Message-----------------

    ------------------------------------- Name: Barker E-mail: Date: 6/14/96 Time: 11:11:26 PM -------------------------------------


    End of YTSEJAM Digest 1623 **************************

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