YTSEJAM digest 1631

Date: Wed Jun 19 1996 - 09:41:24 EDT

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                                YTSEJAM Digest 1631

    Today's Topics:

      1) IF. Bass. And a little NDTC.
      2) that band
     by buster <>
      3) Just a response to Adam
     by buster <>
      4) Howdy, dammit
      5) YTSEJAM digest 1630
      6) Re: Multimedia project
      7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1630
      8) Petrucci is God (duh)
     by (Ernesto Schnack)
      9) get a clue
     by (Andrew Miller)
     10) cut the crap-DTC-idiot-hemisfuck-Mekong Delta-sissy
     11) DT's next CD
     by "Ollila Marko" <>
     12) A few recent threads.
     by "Ollila Marko" <>
     13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1629
     by (Scott Cook)


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:49:47 -0400
    To: Land Of The Tiny-Brained Folk <>
    Subject: IF. Bass. And a little NDTC.
    Message-ID: <>


    I'll get the DT Content out of the way. Innocence Faded-- were it not for
    cassettes I would probably not like this song. On CD I always skipped it,
    but when I listened in the car to my taped dub of Awake, I didn't feel like
    always fast-forwarding thru it, so I'd always forge through the song, through
    James' glass-shattering high notes, through the unnatural-sounding
    non-root-hitting bass-line, through the chorus "ahhh"'s which make me pine
    for The Heights. But it's worth it, just for that fuckin' coda. Man does
    that part kick ASS.

    And as for John Myung, I'm not quite sure how to gauge his talent, seeing as
    he doesn't come up with any particularly *imaginative* basslines. Most of
    the time he's just keeping up with JP (which is in and of itself a talent),
    or repeating the root note, or strictly following a complex riff. But he
    doesn't get creative or improvise. Like "The Lemon Song" by Zep, which is
    basically one 5-minute-long improv'd bass solo by John Paul Jones (without
    really trying to be one). Or Stefan Lessard of Dave Matthews Band. Or
    Trevor Dunn of Mr. Bungle (the "Dead Goon" fast bass part, cool-ass). Or
    Flea, in some of the Chili Peppers' softer songs. Or even freakin' Duff

    Not any of these frantic slap-and-pop bass breaks, but just, you know,
    fooling around with the music-- getting creative with the chords you're
    given. Like in jazz, right, bass players just get handed charts with the
    chords comped in, and they have to make it up themselves.

    Then again, I guess most of the style of music DT plays never really calls
    for that type of bass playing. But I wish it did.

    Jeff Falk <>, the guy with the
    long-but-evil-sounding email address, writes:

    > Does anyone here like Ayn Rand or Bruce Springsteen?

    Someone say... AYN RAND?? Yes!!

    Funkmasta G-Jack <102346.2730@CompuServe.COM> throws down da phat flow thus:

    > "The State" was a really funny show, despite all of the terrible reviews...


    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah.

    The Inbred Brothers. The Sea Monkeys. The Mailbox. The Talking Hamburger.
     Damn This Sideways House. Doug. Slash. Porcupine Raceway.

    A funny fuckin' show... whatever happened to them? They were on the brink of
    fame-- Lorne Michaels reportedly approached the entire cast about being on
    the new SNL and they all refused. Then they stopped the MTV show themselves
    or something. What happened?

    > Screw welfare, rugged individualism is in need of a revival.

    All right, a capitalist (dare I say... Libertarian?). Sounds like you should
    be reading the Ayn Rand.

    Monty Newberry <>, who can speak telepathically, thought about

    > That's kind of funny about Pat Boone, because I
    > just saw a short clip of Dweezil and Ahmet Zappa doing part of a Sabbath
    > tune (not sure which one) with (no joke here kids) John Tesh on Conan
    > O'Brien last night.

    I saw that show, TWICE. They must rerun that one a lot. You're right, I
    laughed my ass off when they jammed with Tesh and his little strap-on
    keyboard... kind of surreal. Not quite as much as when Ahmet did his
    now-trademark "It's Not Unusual" Dance, or when he did his impression of Yoda
    having sex, but still. Those 2 always just fuck shit up when they go on the

    Anyone ever see Andy Richter's pilot "The Invisible Family That Spoke In
    High-Frequency Tones"? Am I the only one on the planet that saw that


    Laugh It Up, Fuzzball

    "I came here to chew some bubblegum and kick some ass. And I'm all out of
         (someone identify this Bill Murray quote for me, it's driving me insane)


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:19:35 -0400
    From: buster <>
    Subject: that band
    Message-ID: <>

    OK..I promised myself about a zillion times that I would not
    post about this at all, but I can't stand it anymore....

    There's this one band that changed and people can't stop
    arguing about why they changed.
    I used to listen to this band frequently. They pioneered
    a style and sound that was groundbreaking in the music was great. It was technically challenging, and
    it was fresh. It was like nothing else I'd heard. That's what
    I look for in a band.

    No matter if the change is good or bad, I am dissappointed
    in one thing. They don't play what they used to mean and what
    they used to stand for. I wish they could've progressed without
    abandoning a style and culture that shaped them...and us.

    To me they represented something "different" than all that was
    being played out there, and now they don't. To me they were
    unmatched, original, and perfected at what they did.

    Now it seems I'll be missing those qualities that made them special...
    It's very strange not even having a desire to listen to new material
    from a band that was once so inspirational to me.

    All I can say to them is "bye, for now" and "I hope you come back".



    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:28:53 -0400
    From: buster <>
    Subject: Just a response to Adam
    Message-ID: <>

    > Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 14:48:26 -0700
    > From: Adam Barnhart <>
    > To:

    > 6) The notion that Dream Theater ought to be considered a progressive band
    > first and foremost is interesting. I'm not sure, myself. I'd say there's
    > at least as much agressive content as progressive, meaning I'd trace a
    > lineage to Maiden, Metallica, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and the NWOBHM as much
    > as I would to Genesis and Yes (there are the special issues of Rush and
    > Tull, who're something like hard rock/progressive).

    First let me say to Adam that this is not a flame to your post! It just
    happened to spark an opinion in me...

    You say you're not sure about DT being the definition of progressive, but you
    mention that you hear the old "agressive" influences in there. Well, to me
    that's what progressive is...taking a little from what's been done, then
    taking it a big step further and adding a new "twist". For a while it
    started to seem like everything had been done with "heavy metal" that
    could be done with it by any band...then I heard Dream Theater :)
    To me, they progressed "metal" into the 90's!



    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:49:19 -0400
    Subject: Howdy, dammit
    Message-ID: <>

    Hey Jammers,

    I've been reading the jams for about a month now...and, well, is this where
    to send my posts? Needless to say, i'm new at this, so...

    I just wanted to put my 1/50 of an American dollar into the Metallica *Load*
    debate. I've been listening to Metallica since *Ride the Lightning* came out
    and i was in 8th or 9th grade. I liked 'em back then when my musical tastes
    were not quite so refined as they are now, and guess what?, i still like 'em
    now. Perhaps my tastes have evolved right along with Metallica's music.

    To those of you who don't like it, tough titty. I figure it's your loss and
    my gain.

    Just the ramblings of a suspected lunatic,
    Tim Caudill (1 of few known Jammers here in W.PA -- any others out there??)

                                        | DREAM THEATER |
                                        | SAVATAGE |


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:58:30 -0500
    Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1630
    Message-ID: <>





    Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:55:26 +0000
    Subject: Re: Multimedia project
    Message-ID: <>

    >>and now for the important part...for my Multimedia class i have to do a
    >>major project. I want to incorporate DT into it in some way.
    > How about getting really adventurous and doing a video for ACOS? You
    >could pull stock footage of changing seasons, children playing, old
    >people, etc... mix that with some DT live footage, stills etc., some
    >fancy graphics, cool fades (like a fade to black at the end), and you'd
    >be stylin'.... Of course to do a 23 minutes .AVI file would require about
    >75MB of hard drive space or so <G>....
    This is really similar to the idea I was thinking of posting except
    for the addition of getting/doing some time-lapse protography and
    basing it around the time-lapse of season shifts with little bits of
    DT footage.
    About the memory problems, if your gunna burn it on a CD it
    shouldn't be a big hassle.



    Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:16:13 -0400
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1630
    Message-ID: <>

    Skadz groused:

    << Well, you can just ask all the jammers who are sleeping at my place
    tonight what angle my halo is on after they had a nice comfortable floor to
    sleep on and didn't have to drive 5 hours home :P >>

    I never doubted what a generous and kindly soul you are - but we all know you
    wouldn't be any fun if your halo was on *completely* straight. ;)
    << OR, you can just come see for yourself. :P >>

    I dunno, Bawston's kind of a long way from ol' Virginny... you pay for the
    ride and then we'll talk. <G>

    Jaime the Dragon, who thoroughly *enjoys* being wonderfully evil. :D

    "Last night when I walked into my bathroom,
    I stepped in a thick pile of shhhh -aving cream
    Be nice and clean
    Shave every day and you'll always look keen."
             -Dr. DEMENTO


    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:33:17 -0400
    From: (Ernesto Schnack)
    Subject: Petrucci is God (duh)
    Message-ID: <>

    No, but seriously, my friend just got Rock Discipline and the I&W and AWAKE
    tab books, and after seeing that video, I just felt like practicing guitar
    for the resta of the day.

    some quotable quotes:

    'ooh, my arm just cracked there'

    'let's *suppose* 200 b.p.m is difficult'

    well and the DT jams they showed were cool... was that from a concert or
    rehearsal? seemed to be a concert....

    oh well that's all I wanted to say.

    Funky Cold Medina
    Ernie :)


    Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:16:59
    From: (Andrew Miller)
    Subject: get a clue
    Message-ID: <>

    >>From: YUTAKA OTSUKA <>
    >>what I should subscribe?
    >What you subscribe must?
    >What think about it do you?
    >D A V E K I N G

    wonderful Dave. that's the kind of thing you'd expect out of someone that
    was still in grade school. do you really find it funny to pick on someone's
    english when english is obviously not the person's first language? that's
    pathetic. grow up.

     C O M E V I S I T M Y W E B P A G E!!!!!!!!
     Andrew Miller - keyboardist -
     - SubtleRage (progressive rock)
     - Interum (new age/prog instrumental)


    Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:27:02 +0200
    Subject: cut the crap-DTC-idiot-hemisfuck-Mekong Delta-sissy
    Message-ID: <v02130501adeaddb88434@[]>

    Yo yo yo yo yo,

    Get over this Metallica crap, please. I don't care if Load sucks or not.
    But I start real getting pissed when the jam lately MEGA-sucks because you
    people can't get over Metallica. IMO, Metallica is NOT a DT-related band.
    And please:

    >>>>>>>And in a desperate attempt to tie some DTC into this...
    [snip]With Dream Theater, you almost always have several different feels/riffs
    within the same song. Hell, I'd venture to guess there are more riffs in
    ACOS than in the whole album "Load"! :)<<<<<<<<<

    Stop this kind of bullshit. If you really have nothing to say DTC or
    related, shut the fuck up.

    Andrew "grow up" Miller wrote:
    >>>>>>i think it's cool to have discussions about it (to a point) <<<<

    That's the point.

    >>>and no, i'm not trying to take sides here. i don't even like Metallica.

    Andy, re-read what you've written, please?

    Now for some
    -talk-about-anyway-on-the-jam-apart-from-metallica) DTC:

    Someone wrote:
    >>>>>I'd say that when you get down to it, Dream Theater is really John
    band. It's just that "Petrucci" as a band name sounds kind of dumb.<<<<<<

    A band becomes someone's if you let him do so.

    >>>>>>I mean, all 5 guys in the band obviously do collaborate... but I
    >>>>>>would think
    that certain members' ideas would carry a little more weight; namely,
    Petrucci's and probably Portnoy's. [snip] And with the very influential
    KevMo gone, there's going to be a large gap in the songwriting force, but
    they said he didn't have a large hand
    in Awake, which is why the album is so guitar-heavy.<<<<<<<<<

    True and not so. CIAW is very key-heavy.

    >>>>>>>Before I start a war between instruments here, I'd best try a little
    diplomacy. In a perfect world, all 5 guys would have an equal say, they'd
    all possess an equal talent and vigor for songwriting (musically &
    lyrically), and every song they wrote would showcase each of them equally and

    This is not a perfect world and what counts seems to be the alchemy in a
    band, the blending of different personalities, egos and aspirations.

    >>>>>But the fact of the matter is-- or should I say my *conjecture* of the fact
    of the matter is-- that JP (and maybe MP) probably has Veto Power over the
    other guys. Guitarists tend to do that, the rat bastards. (Isn't that some
    form of discrimination? Instrument-ism? Guitarrorism?)<<<<<<<

    What is really veto power? If I think a song is not good, either I say it
    clearly, or I don't do my share of the work (eg. it takes me 4 months to
    write the lyrics). In neither case, can the rest of the band overrule you.
    It's that I CANNOT really imagine such a parlementary process in a band,
    such as the one you mentioned. OK, you vote (especially if you're an odd
    number), but that's as far as the political process goes in my band's case.

    >>>>>And so you have your songs where Derek sits out (or just plays String
    triads). Where James sits out (or just plays tamborine or goes "Whoooaaaa...
    yeaaah"). Where Myung is just doubling JP's leads (or just playing low B or
    E over & over). IT'S NOT FAIR.<<<<<<<

    This is not Barnum, ya know? I mean, you don't have to flash it all the
    time to consider you're being useful to the band or that you're making it
    worth. What does MP and JP do in WFS? Sit out. I don't think it's not fair.
    That's just the way the song's meant to be.

    >>>>>>I'm not exactly sure what my point was here. Um... something about
    >>>>>>who wears
    the pants in Dream Theater. And man, that leather gets tight.<<<<<<

    Who cares who wears 'em?

    >>>>>Ah, well, who cares who wears the pants, it's what's inside that

    Uh.....yeah, but it's what's OUTSIDE that counts.

    >>>>>> For all of you out there that think LOAD is good.. your an idiot..
    and you think Metallica is still good... your a fuckin idiot.. LOAD is the
    worst Metallica has sounded in ten years.. That was for Grinder.

    Wow!!! I'm NOT an idiot. I'm so happy. I can die with a grin on my face. No
    but seriously, who cares if another idiot calls you an idiot??

    > D00d! What the hell are they teaching in publik skools
    > these daze??? Like, _everybody_ knows that it's *winter*
    > over there when it's *summer* over here! Get a clue !>)>

    Got your hemispheres fucked up, eh?

    >>>>>>>Has anyone ever thought that some classical music like "Mars" from
    the Planets, "Night on Bald Mountain", "Rite of Spring", "Sorcerer's
    Apprentice", and Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" would sound great done in
    a DT type arrangement? Yes I know that the rock ensemble wouldn't have
    written it, but it would SOUND cool. We'd advertise it as being by the
    original composers.......<<<<<<<

    What do you think of Mekong Delta?

    >Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 16:38:16 +0200
    >Subject: YTSEJAM digest
    >Message-ID: <>

    >Re: The garbage reply below to somebody who needed help in digest 1628...

    Get outta my face you uptight piece of shit! Can't take a laugh, eh? You
    know, you really PISS ME OFF, so get lost.

    >p.s Sorry jammers, it really got on my wick when I saw that.

    ASSUME, kiddy...

    D A V E K I N G
    "If you see a problem where there is none, then the problem is YOU" (dk)
    "holding on is easier than letting go" (fw)


    Date: 19 Jun 96 13:32:05 +0200
    From: "Ollila Marko" <>
    Subject: DT's next CD
    Message-ID: <>

    Hello jammers.

    Since I still have no WWW access, could someone please tell me the song titles
    of DT's next full-legth release. I've been told that they can be found at Jeff
    Chew's "Lifting Shadows" DT homepage. Please? A pretty please?

    --------a personal message to a sub-par jammer who calls himself Sledge-------

    Sledge, If you're reading this, behave yourself. Does your mother know what her
    favorite li'l boy is doing on his free time? Brats like you should be grounded
    forever and forced to listen "Load" from here to eternity.

    FYI, the phrase selection in your flames to Neil and other jammers was pretty
    poor. "Fucking Idiot" is a high compliment around here. You'll never reach that
    status. Only one of us is entitled to that title at a time.

    If I were you, I would nicely apologize to every jammer I've hurt and the
    gracefully unsubscribe from the list. You're a disgrace to the Ytsejam. If you
    feel like flaming me, get in the ring, but do it off the 'jam. Maybe you'll
    learn something, though that is unlikely.



    Date: 19 Jun 96 14:05:24 +0200
    From: "Ollila Marko" <>
    Subject: A few recent threads.
    Message-ID: <>

    Hello 'jamanoids.

    Although there's been pretty few DT-related threads lately, here's my FiM 2 for

    Yes, Innocence Faded is IMO one of the better songs on Awake. I remember the
    first time I listened to Awake, it and SDV were the songs that made me listen
    the disc over and over. At first I didn't like Awake as much as I did I&W, but
    it grew on me so that there's no telling today which one is better. They're just

    To the guy who's planning to do a DT-related multimedia work, have you made sure
    that for example using material off LiT video does not involve any copyright
    infringements? If you have, more power to you. Good luck w/ the project and
    don't forget to advertise the 'jam!! Wouldn't it be great if you included the DT
    Doom II level as a part of your work, that could take the interactivity of your
    work to a different level.

    Anyone remember how to mix a drink called "The Ytse Slam?" I already got the
    instructions for Bombay Vindaloo ((c)Neil Gallop) and it only got me more
    thirsty. And boy, did it taste weird...

    Why is it that when people are talking about melodic or neoclassical metal, they
    refer it as "'80s metal"? I'll be damned if any of the eighties metal is
    inferior to '90s sounding stuff. I just don't like the way that for example the
    bands Crowbar, Biohazard and Down sound. If that's supposed to be the sound of
    the '90s, I'm going back to '80s, dammit. Anyone joining me? Guess not.

    This post is over for the other jammers, but...

    Sledge, your parents should have thought twice before they conceived you.



    Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:18:27 -0700
    From: (Scott Cook)
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1629
    Message-ID: <>

    Hey all,

    Sledge wrote:
    Think i give a shit.. your just a fuckin idiot... i don't want your
    tasteless kind on the jam.. and if you like load you must have
    something wrong wiht your head.. or the other problem, your an idiot..

    Then Neil replied:
    The Ytsejam a civilized list? I think not. I'm sorry to have to make
    this public but do we really want to share what is basically still a
    good list with this sort of person? It has rarely been my misfortune to
    have dealings with such a bigot. Be honest: if you were drinking in a
    nice bar and this person came in, using this language and being so
    open-minded, I think most of you would either leave the bar or ask the
    management to have the person removed. Still, it's nice to know that
    I'm tasteless.
    Now I'm probably one of those people who Neil probably feels has
    unfairly flamed him, but I agree 100% with his post.

    Sledge is fairly new here. I had the misfortune of being on irc one of
    the first times he was on. We were bored so we started joking around
    about DT being a Fuckin' 80's hair band. Of course we were joking! I
    mean, this is #ytsejam after all. This guy totally freaked out calling
    us all different kinds of names. He's not let up one bit since then.

    Anyone who has read my posts knows how I feel about LOAD. Monday I went
    on irc and this guy kicks me off because my opinion is different than
    his. Thank God (or Skadz, in this case) for auto ops.

    I've met people with all different kinds of attitudes in my life; but
    no one who is so consistantly negative and agressive. But, I guess it's
    like someone told me on the KISS list one time. Some people have 20 lb.
    balls when they're behind a computer.

    Anyway, I've said my peace. I hope that if Sledge replies to it that he
    does it like a man and replies privately and not act like a 8 year old
    like in the past.



    End of YTSEJAM Digest 1631

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