YTSEJAM Digest 1536
Today's Topics:
1) Mail Item Format Warning
by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/09/96 - 07:02:42" <response@ibmmail.com>
2) distorted bass??
by Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com>
3) Re: G.A.S. current standings
by "Steven C. Young" <syoung@primenet.com>
4) Any Jammer in Charlotte NC
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
5) DT occurrence
by fitipmol@ibmmail.com
6) Hey everyone
by Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com>
7) ELP/Brandon Elhai
by Darren Redick <yusckx@private.nethead.co.uk>
8) IRC
by btomko@home.glasscity.net
9) JP Instructional Video
by rwarren@netlnx.com
10) DMB/Savatage/rebel radio
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
11) RE: YTSEJAM digest 1534
by "MojoMan" <Mojonet@pb.net>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1533
by Chuck <cgaith1@zeus.towson.edu>
13) Re: SSM....
by steve@kandu.com (Steve Lehrfeld)
14) Some DT content...plus...
by nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
15) My guess at the Bahr secret
by BODINC23@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
16) Re: The DT purity test
by skooc@ix.netcom.com (Scott Cook)
17) Pantera, Gilbert, Speeeeed
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 02:01:16 EDT
From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/09/96 - 07:02:42" <response@ibmmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
Message-ID: <199605090600.XAA17830@mindcrime.ax.com>
The mail item that you sent at 06:00:04 GMT on 09 May 1996 has been delivered.
However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 01:59:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: distorted bass??
Message-ID: <199605090659.AA16572@metronet.com>
> From: Adam <alpine@negia.net>
> Subject: Brian's tape tree
>
> The sound quality depends alot on the media you got the recording on. His
> master was on DAT, which has a much higher dynamic range than analog tapes.
> My copy (off tree) came from a DAT but was copied for me onto a Type II
> cassette. If people with the DATs were complaining about distortion on the
> bass imagine the people who got Type IIs that were completely saturated with
> bass. I have portions I can barely hear due to the saturation. Remember,
> though, that this is _NOT_ Brian's fault in the least. It's the media's
> limitations. Just remember that the people who are bitchin' might have
> these analog copies and have a legit gripe...
this is not true. there is no reason that analo transfers should be
distorted other than someone screwing up the tape when copying it. i
was very explicit about what levels to use, etc, and still got people
complaining that their tapes were at wrong levels, some people even
got tapes with the same thing on two sides of the tape!
the birch hill tape DAT's spectrum is exactly that of the show. the
bass is not distorted (well, the first minute or so is because i was
still setting levels) but the mics i use have a flat response all the
way down. most people just arent used to getting that low bass on
audience tapes. think about being at a show, and the boominess of the
sound that you can feel in your chest. that is what you are hearing.
is it really all that much trouble to turn your loudness or bass knob
down?
i am just sick of hearing everyone whining about the tapes. like i
said before...go out and buy yourself a DAT deck and some mics and
see how much better your tapes come out, and until then i dont want
to hear you bitching about a tape that was free.
<><><><><><><><><> Brian V. Cox (lerxst@metronet.com) <><><><><><><><><>
<>Rush|Dream Theater|Queensryche|King's X|Echolyn|King Crimson|Voivod><>
"You have to systematically create confusion - it sets creativity free.
Everything that is contradictory creates life."
-Salvador Dali, 1980
<><><><><><><><><>DAT Taper/Trader - Email me for list<><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><>< http://www.metronet.com/~lerxst/ ><><><><><><><><><>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 00:47:51 -0700
From: "Steven C. Young" <syoung@primenet.com>
To: "'YtseJam Digest'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: G.A.S. current standings
Message-ID: <01BB3D41.29FC74C0@ip163.tus.primenet.com>
G.A.S. UPDATE!!!
Due to lack of participation, the first part of the G.A.S. has been
eliminated. We will now concentrate only on the "Top 10 Favorite Bands"
segment of the survey, which has generated responses from 12 'jammers to
date (5/8/96).
I would greatly appreciate your participation in this, as I find it
interesting to know where the general interest of the YtseJam lies. Top 10
lists (that can include DT) can be E-mailed to:
and will be received until May 31st, at 11:59pm. Lists will be tallied and
a non-DT band will be crowned on June 1st (my wife's birthday), and results
will be posted on or about that day.
We've finished up the first quarter of the month, and, for those
interested, the top three vote getters (other than DT) thus far are Rush,
Queensryche, and Yes. Echolyn, Fates Warning, Death and Queen have also
made early impressions.
So, get out and vote, you guys.
C'mon, it'll be fun!
Muchos thankos to those who have played the game already - you guys rule.
Steve from Tucson
syoung@primenet.com
"There's not a man, woman or child alive that doesn't enjoy a lovely
beverage." - David Letterman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 00:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Any Jammer in Charlotte NC
Message-ID: <199605090750.AA21656@crl10.crl.com>
....if we have anyone there, note that I'll be up there this coming
weekend at the Airport Sheraton for an SF/fantasy/gaming convention
called ROC of Ages, as a sort of, umm, unannounced special guest.
You'll know me since I'll be wearing the only Ytsejam shirts within 50
miles, in all likelihood. hehe
(This also means I'll have ACRES of Jams to wade through when I get
back. Uh, y'all keep the noise down, ya heah? :))
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman vanyel@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~vanyel ---+ | Rush * Robert Jordan * Bonedance * Michael Moorcock * Metallica | | James P. Hogan * Dream Theater * Robert Heinlein * NIN * Dead | | Can Dance * Mercedes Lackey * Mutha's Day Out * Raymond Feist....|------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 05:08:41 EDT From: fitipmol@ibmmail.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT occurrence Message-ID: <199605090908.CAA21060@mindcrime.ax.com>
--- Saapunut 03.MAPE 90-4694432 09-05-96 12.10 -> IBMMAIL.INTERNET IBM IMX
Hi all.
There was soccer's UEFA cup finals in the TV yesterday. Finnish TV played an excerpt of "Innocence Faded" as the matches intro. This was the third time a thing like this happened. I quess someone in the YLE Finland likes DT....just thought to share that...
_Mape_
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Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 02:27:10 -0700 (MST) From: Michael Bahr <durnik@indirect.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Hey everyone Message-ID: <199605090927.CAA04059@bud.indirect.com>
Just a recommendation...
...pick up the Twister soundtrack, and Pantera's new one "Great Southern Trendkill". Two very enjoyable CDs... but ya gotta like VH.
MTFBWY! Mike Bahr, durnik@indirect.com/mikebahr@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:47:44 GMT From: Darren Redick <yusckx@private.nethead.co.uk> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ELP/Brandon Elhai Message-ID: <199605091047.KAA01188@nethead.co.uk>
Brain Salad Surgery etc. are great albums, but one of their more recent ones is in my opinion one of the best. Black Moon is a classic. It's not that similar to the three mentioned but has all of the classic Keith Emerson traits with great production and writing. It's as if all of the technology has caught up with the band and realized their full potential. Changing States is a perfect example of an ELP instrumental. Fully orchestrated with his amazing synths arrangements. Brilliant! I highly recommend this album. Having said that, avoid Love Beach(I think the name says it all) and In the Hot Seat. ITHS is essentially missing Keith due to surgery on his arm shortly before this recording. Live At The Albert Hall is very good too. Recorded during the Black Moon tour(I was actually at these shows!). Check out Pirates on this CD, it's amazing! Anyway, hope this has been helpful.
-Darren
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Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 07:28:26 -0400 From: btomko@home.glasscity.net To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: IRC Message-ID: <B0000043552@home.glasscity.net>
I tried out the Dream Theater IRC last night, and it was well worth the time it took to download the software. Does anyone have any suggestions of other good music oriented IRC channels? I've had WDaDU for a few months now and I'm just beginning to appreciate the music on the disc. Chuck D.'s voice is starting to actually grow on me... I love "The Killing Hand", "Ytse Jam", and TOWHTSTS. As far as my previous post about bass combos, I appreciate all the responses. I called Hartke last night and they were really helpful. If any of you are looking at Hartke systems and have questions, they'll be sure to take care of you. I'm still open to suggestions, but email me privately. Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with Hartke or SWR? Has anyone heard of a company called "Polytone"? Thanks in advance...
Mark
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Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 06:48:45 -0500 From: rwarren@netlnx.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: JP Instructional Video Message-ID: <199605091148.GAA20307@nl1.netlnx.com>
This is my first try at posting, I hope I do it right.
I got the JP instructional video about a month and I recommend to every guitarist. I have been playing guitar for 16 years and thought I was a pretty good player but this tape humbled me. JP does not teach you note-for-note solos or songs but exercises to improve playing. The warmup exercises are great. I can tell a tremendous improvement in my playing already. Get this tape. You will not be disappointed.
If you can't find it at your local music store you can order it mail order (as I did) from the following company. The price is $49.95 plus shipping. No tax.
Note Service Music (800)628-1528 ext. 214 or 215
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:25:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: DMB/Savatage/rebel radio Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960509091143.4990A-100000@bdmserver>
Hey Ben, I've got the new DMB and I still think DT is way better. DMB is good but I think DT is better. Dave Matthews voice gets annoying at times. I can listen to DT over and over and never get tired of DT. DMB on the other hand, I can get tired of after a few listens. I've seen DMB once and seen DT 3 times and I was more amazed by DT.
--------
What is so good about birch hill? Why do DT and Savatage use that club for one of the stops on their mini tours?
------- Anybody check out rebel radio on the net? You need Real Audio which you can get for free from the real audio site via a web broswer. Then you can connect to http://www.rebelradio.com/ then you can get a metal radio station to play out of your pc or mac. Since I am at work I now can get a decent station to listen to. Although it sounds like crap out of this mac speaker, its better than my clock radio that I have here in my office. Plus all they play is metal.
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------| |The Baltimore Orioles-The team to beat in 1996!!!!!!! | Go DC United! | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:22:16 -0400 From: "MojoMan" <Mojonet@pb.net> To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 1534 Message-ID: <199605091323.GAA25462@mindcrime.ax.com>
> From: FNGX01A@prodigy.com (MR JOHN CAHILLJR) > " Oh man I know more > than you, no you don't , I do" Who cares? If you haven't noticed, you do the most!
> P.S. I know you did not mean it Frank, I still love you man!!!!
Ahhhh.... there's a really ugly place you can blow that out of...
> P.P.S. Drummers are real musicians too!!!!
Ony if they can play in time and they don't drool too much.... > ------------------------------ > > End of YTSESPAM Digest 1534 > ************************** > >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:59:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck <cgaith1@zeus.towson.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1533 Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.960509094602.14302A-100000@zeus.towson.edu>
> [snip] > music, but many also like a little spice eh? i havent seen DT live > (yet) so i can't place any judgements on how they were or anything, but > wouldnt it rule with all sorts of explosions and cages n stuff? :) a > problem though is for when they play small venues, well, ya just cant > do that stuff...
Actually, I saw them a few years back at Hammerjack's in Baltimore on the I&W tour. They DID do a _little_ pyro - at the beginning of PMU and again towards the middle of the show (can't remember). Only thing that sucked about that show was that I'm sooo short - I had to watch some of it from closed-circuit TV's :( But the sound was awesome (as always with DT...not always with Hammerjack's).
This is my first post, after lurking for quite a while. Man, those jams really fill up the inbox quickly!!!
And in case anyone cares: 1st Vinyl: KISS Rock and Roll Over 1st Cassette: Probably RATT (!) Out of the Cellar 1s CD: I think it was Alice in Chains -- Dirt, but I could be wrong...Bought I&W soon after CD player :)
no sig...just cgaith1@zeus.towson.edu
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Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:07:06 +0000 From: steve@kandu.com (Steve Lehrfeld) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: SSM.... Message-ID: <19960509140332909.AAA204@steve.kandu.com>
> > At first i thought it was a guy, but it does sound the same as > > "Mary", and i don't think her name is Pamela Moore. > > Her name is Pamela Moore, and she really did sing "Suite Sister Mary". She > sings professionally in a band in the San Fransisco area, I seem to remember > reading. > > Graham B.
My mistake. the woman i was thinking of is Lisa Dalbello, she sings "Start Today" off of Alex Lifeson's Victor. She also appeared on QR's "Gonna Get Close to You" from Rage for Order.
wrong 'ryche. bad me.
-steve
********************************************************* DREG Records homepage: http://www.bigbrain.com/dreg/
Facade homepage: (check out the new CD!) http://www.bigbrain.com/dreg/facade.html *********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 16:17:08 +0200 From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop) To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: nga@server3.software-ag.de Subject: Some DT content...plus... Message-ID: <9605091417.AA00354@sundoc13.software-ag.de>
Hi all
I spent last night listening to music and watching videos, and it occurred to me that there is an animal/musical link between "Eve" and the Live in Tokio video. Anybody know what it is? Not wanting to keep you all in suspense (rather than suspenders) like Mike Bahr, I'll tell you: Kevin Moore and moo cows. A moo cow is mentioned in the sample at the start of "Eve", and when the guys from the band are looking at condoms in the video, they pronounce the condom with the cow skin pattern to be the one for Kevin because "he's really into moo cows". Maybe he left the band because he had BSE (aka mad cow disease).
Back to reality. Some of you may remember that I was looking for vocal-free prog/metal a few weeks ago. Well, I dug out something last night that might not qualify as prog, and is older than a lot of Jammers, but if you've got it, give it a listen: "Birds of Fire" by The Mahavishnu Orchestra. 24 years old and still amazing, especially the track "One Word". Forget the stuff that Yes, ELP and Genesis were doing back then, this stuff is much better and it really rocks (one hell of a bass line). If you're looking for a fast guitarist, check out John McLoughlin, in particular the work he did with Shakti. Alternatively, try "Between Nothingness and Eternity" to hear what a live album should sound like. Does anybody else out there like them? I was lucky enough to see them 3 times ('old' line up once, 'new' line up twice), and the concerts were always memorable: no stage show, just brilliant musicians playing brilliant music.
OK, let's play the "Bill Bruford Game": who can like Bill Bruford with the Mahavishnu Orchestra in four links (or less)? It can be done.
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de)
Currently playing: Alan White - Ramshackled
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Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 09:54:07 -0500 (CDT) From: BODINC23@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: My guess at the Bahr secret Message-ID: <01I4HXED2ZK2005NMQ@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU>
Date sent: 9-MAY-1996 09:52:30
Could it be that the new DT CD is a concept album containing the entire Metropolis saga?
Charles A. Bodinger Press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to get an EOJ Bitnet - bodinc23@oshkoshw Internet - bodinc23@vaxa.cis.uwosh.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:03:22 -0700 From: skooc@ix.netcom.com (Scott Cook) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: The DT purity test Message-ID: <199605091503.IAA11999@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>
From: Bogie34@aol.com Subject: The Dream Theater Purity Test
In lieu of some discussion on the DT IRC, I've decided to write the following Dream Theater Purity Test. Do you want to know how much of a Dream Theater listener you are? Take the Test!
(BTW, these are just coming of the top of my head right now...I'll organize them much later.) *****
Do me a favor, organise it privately. You may impress yourself by how much of a Dream Theater fan you are, but not all of us really care.
I've been gone for a couple of weeks and upon returning I had about 55 jams to look through. I read about three or four of them and had to delete the rest. I mean come on, all this crap about whether Geoff Tate sang the female part on a disc that was released eight years ago; someone whining because his feelings were hurt when someone didn't like all the Marillion posts; and then the whole tape tree thing. I guess we're all supposed to kiss Brian's ass because he's such a wonderful human being for offering to run off a few DAT's. I looked over his list on the web site a few months ago and emailed him about getting some dubs from him and I still haven't heard from him. I guess I'm not worthy because I don't have a DAT machine, I only have one of those ancient analog decks. I hope when I die that God can forgive me for not having a DAT deck.
That's all I have to say.
Scott Cook
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu> To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Pantera, Gilbert, Speeeeed Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.92a.960509074011.82971A-100000@homer13.u.washington.edu>
> From: "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org> > Subject: The Great Southern TrendKILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL > > For all you #ytsejammers, ist definately > RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH music. > > Very Heavy, Very good, just get it > NOW
Is this a request or a demand? Dangit, yer makin' me dr00l, d00d! ;)
---- > From: Brian Wherry <bwherry@acs.bu.edu> > Subject: Secret guess, Pantera, Paul Gilbert, etc. > > I think Paul Gilbert totally did some tape speeding up and whatnot > on that GTRTW track.
Yes, when the guitar crescendos back in after the long, slow part, and again during the last two guitar solo-parts. He even cranks up the pitch-shift in the last few seconds to clue in the untrained ear that he's playing around. But those acoustic parts were to my ears authentic, and if you've ever heard Al DiMeola I don't see why you'd doubt a human is capable of doing something at that pace.
I've only heard a sped-up acoustic track once, and it sounded like a Fisher-Price thick-plastic-strings mini-guitar, crafted out of tin. I mean the whole instrument sounded like a teeny tiny cartoon toy. On Paul's acoustic parts he actually goes down to the low E at times, and ends a run by pulling off onto an open high E, which leads me to believe it's a real acoustic. Plus it just sounds like an authentically-tuned instrument, ie a guitar in E.
> Bafu said it was like 18 notes per second? Jeez!
Yeah, that's pretty fast, but not unheard of if you clock enough speed demons like Impellitteri, Gilbert, Malmsteen, etc. Or if you're even into keeping tabs on players' abilities. I figure that if I can do 16, I don't doubt for a second that someone like Paul Gilbert could pull it up to 18, heck, maybe more. Realize that 16nps is as simple thought-wise as evenly breaking a second into 16 hits, so rhythmically it's not that hard to imagine. Yngwie does 16nps perfectly on the first note of the solo to "Forever Is A Long Time" if you want an example. That right there is my top speed, and it's never going to get any faster, and I'm perfectly content.
And Paul Gilbert could smoke my ass any day of the week.
> 16 notes per second is 32nd notes at 120 bpm, which is insane! All of > you that have seen JP's home video know that he has a tough time with > sixteenth notes at 208 (same as 32nd notes at 104), so that makes what > Yngwie and Paul are doing even more impressive, if we're talking PICKED > notes, that is. If Bafu's talking about hammered notes, that's a little > more believable. (note to JP worshippers -- yes, he did it at 208, but > that was with distortion and the neck pickup, so as to disguise > mistakes....)
I haven't seen John's video, but keep in mind I mean PICKED ONLY, as in a blazing right-hand technique. That's fretting one note with the left hand and seeing how many notes you can squeeze out with a furious right hand in one second. If you're soloing over scales or multi-fretted runs, then of course the number has a greater significance. Yngwie would probably outdo a lot of players in this category since most of his stuff is complete tandem-speed involving both hands moving fast as hell, whereas someone like Petrucci seems to have incredible timing with his right hand, the mark of a metronome-trained guitarist, but I don't think he could quite hang with Yngwie in the shredding department.
I would equate picked-notes-per-second as valuable a number as left-hand- fretted notes per second. Either one by itself can sound really really fast and be very impressive, but getting the two hands to go together is the meat of being an articulate player. In this Yngwie is simply a master.
Of course I love all these guys, I'm not putting anyone down, but if you get to actually testing their recorded speeds, that's what it comes down to. I'll also admit that the entire argument of who's faster than who is infantile and irrelevant to what makes a good guitarist, but since it's on the table I figured I'd dig in. Like a big juicy turkey...
> ps- Yngwie gaining self-esteem: > > "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, well, I'm good > enough and smart enough, anyway." :)
Hehheh... :)
By the way, Brian, I'd suggest you locate something by Racer X, 'cause that's when Mike Varney was preally ushing Gilbert to go all-out at all times, and Gilbert's ability really shone as a quick-picka. Mr. Big is not the place to look for Shredhead Gilbert. :) I've also heard his clinics have caused people to go home and smash their guitars in a rage.
You know, it feels good to be able to discuss the finer points of guitar-playing here, since I can't really do it that often in real life. I was trying to describe Shawn Lane's "inhuman ability" to someone I met in this building who also plays the geetar. As a point of reference, I blurted out, "I mean, he's faster than Paul Gilbert!" To which this person responded, with a smile on his face and laughter in his voice, "PLEEEEASE, Steve!! ANYONE can play fast!"
Attention all aspiring guitarists:
THIS ASSUMPTION IS BULLSHIT.
NOT ANYONE CAN PLAY FAST.
LEARN THIS FACT QUICKLY OR SUFFER AN IMPACT WITH THE CRUEL BRICK WALL THAT IS THE TRUTH.
Geez, I feel like Type O Negative all of a sudden...
---- > From: "MojoMan" <Mojonet@PB.net> > Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 1527 > > It's reminiscent of a bunch of your colegues busting on Winger > because they are uncool now, without realizing that Winger had one of > the greatest Drummer's in the outfit and a very good guitarist. Don't > confuse accomplishment with hype!
Nor lack of talent with genius.
> M O J O M A N B A R K S !!!!!
Go Mojo!! :)
Bafu Vai
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1536 **************************
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