YTSEJAM Digest 1563
Today's Topics:
1) Mail Item Format Warning
by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/20/96 - 00:24:19" <response@ibmmail.com>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1562
by acook@tiac.net (acook)
3) Until it Sleeps and various musings
by zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
4) Mis-heard DT Lyrics
by Daniel McCormack <dmc@dreamt.org>
5) Re: YtseJAM #1562
by "Matthew A. Schnoor" <schnoor@cs.pdx.edu>
6) Re:Death/Metallica
by Call ofKtulu <Call_ofKtulu@wow.com>
7) Dumb old sap!!!
by tormato@allinux1.alliance.net (Jeremy Hyde)
8) Re: Prog-Metal,
by Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
9) Various stuff
by Mithrandir <mithrandir@pb.net>
10) ELEGY
by tq0139@mail.doshisha.ac.jp (Keiji Nishihara)
11) Fresno, First things, slight DT content....
by Markus Stahl <stahl@primenet.com>
12) Different Types of DT Fans
by BigDTFan@aol.com
13) Album cover artwork
by BigDTFan@aol.com
14) Analogies
by BigDTFan@aol.com
15) In their absence...
by BigDTFan@aol.com
16) Re: G.C. Stuff
by Dave Fernquist <103362.445@CompuServe.COM>
17) Re: Metallica single
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:22:48 EDT
From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/20/96 - 00:24:19" <response@ibmmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
Message-ID: <199605192322.QAA07885@mindcrime.ax.com>
The mail item that you sent at 23:22:43 GMT on 19 May 1996 has been delivered.
However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:36:36 -0400
From: acook@tiac.net (acook)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1562
Message-ID: <199605200036.UAA13714@zork.tiac.net>
Sorry boys (and gals) but I'm going to have to do some sticking up for
metallica here...
> Metallica at 92 MTV music awards...you know...the one with
>Fartman....Lars blew hot air out of his mouth for exactly 1 minute and 40
>seconds....AGAIN I wasn't focusing on the length, but the
>content...{Instead of :
> Thanks to ....blah,blah,blah
> Lars said :
> Finally, we get what we deserve....}
You seem to be (I could be wrong) one of those people who was pretty much
unaware of Metallica before the black album. They had been around for almost
10 years before this, never getting airplay or MTV play, before One, and
still had a gold or platinum album every time! Metallica WAS the underground
metal scene in the 80s. Radio was playing what they called metal, which was
Bon Jovi and Def Leppard (No offense to these bands), but that wasn't real
metal.
Also, the previous couple years Metallica rocked the grammy house with One
and then lost the grammy to Jethro Tull! This was obviously the commercial
music association's backlash to Metallica starting to get popular.
>
> Wow man....I think you have to listen to what is Comercial Music...and
>not Adult Contemporary.... I couldn't turn on MTV 2 years ago without
>seeing Metallica....
>and Ill bet it will be the same for Load...
>
What is commercial music anyway? Like I said, Metallica had been around with
devoted fans before they got airplay, if that were to happen to DT now,
would you call them commercial sell-outs, and therefore bad? The bands don't
make up the industry. That's left to record executives, radio, MTV and all
that crap.
Adam Cook acook@tiac.bet visit me at, http://www.tiac.net/users/com (hard
hat construction area!)
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Date: Sun, 19 May 96 18:27:08 PDT
From: zack@lsil.com (Zack Gemmill)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Until it Sleeps and various musings
Message-ID: <9605200127.AA04980@tengs1>
Since Friday morning, I've heard "Until it Sleeps" five times on
the radio. I could tell it was Metallica during the first few measures
(before the hard part) the first time I heard it! Though I know
they will overplay it so much that I will skip it when I get the
CD, I think it's better than the singles that were released from
_Metallica_ (except for WIMR). It shows a definite _groove_ that
was noticibly missing from the last album. Another observation,
though a friend of mine also heard it a few times (doesn't like it
as much as I), we started talking about it and he thought the same
things I did about it *before* we talked about it: James' vocal style
is *vaguely* reminiscent if Dave Mustaine's and the non-hard parts
of the song remind us of _One_. Also, it doesn't sound overproduced
like _Metallica_ was. I egearly await June 4th.
>If you're mainly into the heavy-metal
>side of DT, don't bother... If you're interested in real emotions,
What the HELL, is *that* suppossed to mean??? (said like Coach)
Btw, as someone else here once said, Death's _Symbolic_ has to
be one of the best metal albums ever made (Pan__ who?)
>Cats really dig Eve...
DT is promoting kitty litter? Fucking sellouts.
>they go right to sleep.. anything else by
>DT agitates them and they give up and walk away. Go figure.
I was sitting on a mountain top last evening (had a nice view of
the Central Valley) drinking MGD (anyone on the list who isn't an
alcoholic, raise their hand, if possible |^/> ...and it started
raining. I get into my car and rolled up the windows and the cat
(Retardo) jumps in the car. I had the music cranked as far as my
system could stand (one can barely yell over it at this level),
playing various CDs, and the cat just sat there on the back seat
looking contented. I was even smoking so much that it was really
hazy and he didn't care! Maybye he was a dog in his last life...
Or maybye it's because his owners smoke so much pot that it's
affected him after all these years (I was looking after someone's
house and property this weekend).
>> Hey Bafu, I don't think you'd want into the ring with myself and
>>Mojo. I am 6'3" 210Lbs. He is 6'6" 260Lbs. When we sit down next to each
>>other on a plane, it tilts to one side. I believe the old saying is "
>>Where does a five hundred pound Gorrilla sleep? Wherever he wants!
>
>you too huh? i stand 6'0" 275 pounds, and my shoulders usually brush the
>door frame i happen to be walking through at the time. i've never actually
>been on a plane though......
I'm 6'3", 230 lbs (thought ideally I could weigh about 20 less, I'm
not as ripped as I used to be, must be the Miller and Marlboros). But
it doesn't matter since Sam Colt made all men and women equal.
Zach (Ytse-militia member (not really !^)> but could be)
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:32:15 -0300
From: Daniel McCormack <dmc@dreamt.org>
To: Valhalla <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Mis-heard DT Lyrics
Message-ID: <319FBD8F.C52@dreamt.org>
Hey, just a quickie... I haven't heard this one mentioned..
"I fell in love to peel it down."
Kinky... :)
Later,
-That DMC Guy-
--Daniel McCormack dmc@dreamt.org http://premium.caribe.net/~emc/dan.html
"All the dead greenery, sacrificed for you and me I'm the one who cares for them - I'm a Carnatarian" - Chris Merlo (D-Man), Carnatarian, Polio Dog
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist-" - General John Sedgewick, Union Commander in the Civil War, speaking his last words.
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 18:39:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matthew A. Schnoor" <schnoor@cs.pdx.edu> To: Ytsejam List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YtseJAM #1562 Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960519183226.3375A-100000@sarin.cs.pdx.edu>
In Jam# 1562, Ben Laussade opened his mouth and these words flew out:
>Matthew Schnoor wrote: >>First tape: Isao Tomita, "The Planets" (new age synthesized classical) > >Is that Holst's planets synthesized? Or, some different planets? Cuz' >Holst's kick ass.
It was indeed a synthesized version of Holst's Planets. And yes, the original does kick major ass, although I can't say the same for the synthed version. "Saturn" had this strange off-rhythm "tick-tock" sound going on. It makes sense, since SATURN (Roman) = CRONOS (Greek) = god of time. But it still sucked.
In fact, the whole tape sucked. I was a dumb 14-year old at the time and it LOOKED cool. They took so many "artistic liberties" that by the time it was over, it hardly sounded like the original at all. They chopped Jupiter to pieces and changed keys all over.
The original "Jupiter" does kick butt. Now that's something I'd like to see Kevin Moore (or even DT) try. Who knows, maybe someone cool will re-do The Planets and it'll turn out good!
Didn't Moody Blues try that a while back? They're in town tonight and I can't remember if they did that or not. Oh, wait a sec... that was the Pictures at an Exhibition. They butchered that.
One BOJ so far, hoping for an EOJ this time. :)
See ya,
[ Matthew A. Schnoor ] [Bolo@ytsejam@irc.dreamt.org:2112] [ schnoor@cs.pdx.edu ] [http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~schnoor/index.html] "Daybreak, at the bottom of a lake..." - Dream Theater, "Lie"
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:46:56 -0400 From: Call ofKtulu <Call_ofKtulu@wow.com> To: POST ON YTSEJAM <YTSEJAM@ax.com> Subject: Re:Death/Metallica Message-ID: <199605192146_MC1-40A-330F@compuserve.com>
Hey Mike. I was just listening to Symbolic today...and the day before...and the day before that...and the day before that. I think you get the point. I got it from Columbia House recently and I can't get enough of it. Chuck's voice annoys me slightly...but death metal listeners learn to just pay attention to the guitars or drums or whatever...The guitar work is incredible (not Petrucci-quality though) but I'm really amazed by Gene, the drummer. He doesn't do flashy stuff like Mike or Neil Peart, but he's got the double bass action down. And if you really pay attention you can heard incredible ride cymbal work. Is he a freak with two right arms or what? Well, hella cool CD man! See ya.
Brian Begnoche
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Date: Sun, 19 May 96 22:47 EDT From: tormato@allinux1.alliance.net (Jeremy Hyde) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Dumb old sap!!! Message-ID: <m0uLKzy-000pSIC@alliance.net>
>I'm not sure if I am sending this to the right person, but I am very >interested in being on the Dream Theater mailing list. My mailing >address is as follows: > >Bryan Holst >2736 NW Edenbower #6 >Roseburg, OR 97470 > >Please e-mail my at holster@rosenet.net and let me know if this is >the correct place to do this or not. Thanks. > >Bryan Holst >holster@rosenet.net > > >------------------------------ > >End of YTSEJAM Digest 1561 >************************** > Boy if this lame sap can get an EOJ, anyone can!!!! Tee-hee-hee-hee!!! Maybe I'm sick, but I actually feel sorry for this guy, he digs DT so he can't be as stupid as this post showed us!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~ "To navigate waters, and finally answer to - yes." ~ Jeremy Hyde ~ ~ -Yes ~ aka ~ ~ "Tempus Fugit" ~ Tempus ~ ~ from _Drama_, 1980 ~ tormato@mail.alliance.net ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 23:08:03 -0400 From: Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Prog-Metal, Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960519231108.266f7d1e@access.mountain.net>
cng@tcco.com (name?) asked on Jam #1557 :
> Can anyone recommend any "progressive metal" bands that are accessible > in the US ?
I recomend Timothy Pure. Their CD _Fabric of Betrayal_ is excellent. Not as heavy as some of the other bands that have been mentioned, but cool nonetheless.
Jam on... Jonathan Byrne rael@access.mountain.net West Virginia University '96 ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Wonder women draw your blind! Don't look at me I'm not your kind I'm Rael!" -Genesis, "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 20:37:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mithrandir <mithrandir@pb.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Various stuff Message-ID: <199605200337.UAA10154@mindcrime.ax.com>
Hello fellow DT fans!! I just wanted to add to the great Metallica debate. I got into Metallica back in the summer of 1987, when a friend from High school made me listen to the tape. At the time, they were the cutting edge of metal, really heavy. It took me several listens to get into it, but when I did get into it, it was because of the energy they were playing with. I know that Lars broke 5 snare drum heads during the recording of Battery alone, that's energy! AJFA had quite a bit of that same intensity, but I think you could notice Cliff's absence. When the black album came out I bought and listened to it like crazy, but I was disappointed that it did not have that same energy. Since the energy was why I got into them in the first place, I felt why do I like this anymore? I could no longer justify them and I have since lost interest in their new material. I still dig the old stuff, but I think they have sold out for the masses rather than remain true to their roots ( IMO). I hope for my sake they can regain some of that fire which drew me to them.
Mr. Cool. While I feel you have some valuable knowledge on the drums, I disagree with you about Mark Zonder. He appeared as the second feature article in Modern Drummer back in 1994, the one with Tony Williams on the cover. He certainly seemed to indicate that he could play with Mike's intensity. One of his former bands was a band called Warlord, which he described as a lot of screeming vocals, and lightning double kicks. If you would like, Ben e-mail me directly and I'll send you the article. Also, when I saw Fates live, he was playing like a man possesed.
Marillion, 1989 at Sundance. I was there too. What a show. At the time I could not have cared less about Marillion, but DT was amazing. That was the show that me and my friend James had to hitch a ride home with JP, because my friends car died. As we pulled into Kings Park at Sunrise, James said to John, " Look John, When Dream and Day Unite". He almost made us walk the rest of the way home.
The four phases of DT fans. Wedge you forgot the first reason for being a DT fan: If you grew up in K.P. You were forced to listen to DT or they did not let you live in the town!!!! Laughs!!! Skadz will agree. Elen sila lumenn omentilmo, Mithrandir
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Date: Mon, 20 May 96 13:11:07 +0900 From: tq0139@mail.doshisha.ac.jp (Keiji Nishihara) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ELEGY Message-ID: <9605200411.AA03123@mail.doshisha.ac.jp>
Someone wants to know about ELEGY,so I post this. They are organized by Henk Van Der Larrs(guitar) in 1986. In 1991,they dealt with Shark Records. Their first album was released in 1991 in Europe. They've released 3 albums so far. Current members are Henk Van Der Larrs :Guitar Eduard Hovinga :Vox Gilbert Pot :Guitar Martin Helmantel :Bass Dirk Bruinenberg :Drums Gerrit Hager :Keyboards
1st album "Labyrinth of Dreams" (1991) 1.The Grand Change 2.I'm No Fool 3.Take My Love 4.All Systems Go (Instrumental) 5.Trouble In Paradise 6.Over And Out 7.Labyrinth Of Dreams 8.Mass Hysteria (Instrumental) 9.Powergames 10.The Guiding Light Track.1,2,3,10 are good songs. Catchy, a bit pop, but technical songs. 2nd album "Supremacy" (1993) Sorry. I don't have this album.'cuz I've heard some songs from this album but most of that songs are crap. Only "Windows of The World" is worth listening, I think. 3rd album "Lost"(1995) 1.Lost 2.Everything 3.Clean Up Your Act 4.Always With You 5.Under Gods Naked Eye 6.1998 (The Prophecy) 7.Spirits 8.Crossed The Line 9.Live It Again 10.Spanish Inquisition Track 2,3,4,5,10 are worth listening. Still these songs are catchy technacal songs. If I recommends you one album,then I choose this album. Track.6 means 666(The Omen)*3=1998.
Their music is pop catchy technical songs sounds like DREAM THEATER,HELLOWEEN. I've met Henk(guitar) and Ed(vox) last year in Japan. They played 3 acoustic set and that was amazing. They are nice ordinary guys,far from ROCK STAR! And I've got their autographed photopanel.(Thanks) Henk said that he loves DT so comparing with DT are my honour. Well, Excellent music is in front of you,so why don't you grab and enjoy that!
-Keiji Nishihara Kyoto,Japan
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 21:47:33 -0700 From: Markus Stahl <stahl@primenet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fresno, First things, slight DT content.... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19960520044733.00663318@primenet.com>
First of all I live in Fresno and I have to agree with Randall it's not that bad. Everybody puts it down but it's not a bad place to live.
On this "First Things" thread
First Tape - J. Geils Band - Centerfold (I think that's the name of it)
First CD - Scorps - Savage Amusement
First Concert - Dio with Savatage and Megadeth Opening, now this was an awesome show, I just wish I was into these groups as much then as I am now.
DT content.... Just out of curiosity, anybody know how much a Mike P. drumhead with all the band members autographs would be worth?
-mark
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Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:26:43 -0400 From: BigDTFan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Different Types of DT Fans Message-ID: <960520012643_494495861@emout18.mail.aol.com>
El Hombre Digital made an interesting observation. The different types of DT fans. That's another reason they're so cool. DT has a diverse audience. While Chris' observations are valid, everyone else's is probably just as valid... Here's the way I see it:
-The hard-rock/metal fans. -The Prog-heads, but not necessarily musicians. -The Musicians, but not necessarily prog-heads -The people who just appreciate good music, whatever genre it falls under.
Based on what I've seen. Ytsejammers and NJDTF's fall into one or all of the above categories...
Elliott Kim, BigDTFan@aol.com The Ytsejammer Formerly Known As ekim01@fiu.edu
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Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:26:46 -0400 From: BigDTFan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Album cover artwork Message-ID: <960520012645_494495886@emout07.mail.aol.com>
My country music/Rush fan friend came by today. She saw the CD booklet artwork for I&W, Awake, and Acoustic Dreams. She commented on how beautiful the artwork was. While there has been much talk about the meanings of the objects/symbols in the artwork, has anyone just sat back and thought, "wow, that's just a beautiful piece of artwork that complements the music."
Also, does anyone think that the kind of people who like the music would like the artwork, and vice versa?
Is there a similar aesthetic sensibility surrounding both the music and the album cover art? In other words, do you think they complement each other? IMHO, Awake has a "blue/green/grey feel to it..." whatever that means...
BTW, of course I played some for my friend! ;) Yes, she liked it. :) :) :) :) :)
Elliott Kim, BigDTFan@aol.com The Ytsejammer Formerly Known As ekim01@fiu.edu
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Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:26:46 -0400 From: BigDTFan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Analogies Message-ID: <960520012644_494495869@emout19.mail.aol.com>
Yeah. It was rather late at night when I came up with these, so bear with me. ;)
DT is analagous to your spouse. DT is the ultimate. DT is your favorite band. Van Halen, Metallica, Pantera, etc are like old girlfriends you're still friends with. Rush and Queensryche may fall into this category too. Fates Warning, Savatage, Shadow Gallery and Echolyn are like cool friends that your spouse has. Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Poison, etc, is analagous to the girl with coke-bottle glasses and braces whose books you carried on the way home from school in 6th grade....
A band is like a marriage. The songs or the albums (whichever way you look at is fine with me) are like the children. WDADU is the kid from the parents' first marriage. Kevin Moore's departure is like a divorce. The Kevin Moore/Chromakey demos are like DT's stepchildren... Some of us like 'em, some of us don't. Derek is the new step-parent... Some of us like him, while others are unfair to him...
And before any of you accuse me of thinking about DT too much, ask yourself the same question... ;) That's why you're on the Jam!!!
Elliott Kim, BigDTFan@aol.com The Ytsejammer Formerly Known As ekim01@fiu.edu
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Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 01:26:49 -0400 From: BigDTFan@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: In their absence... Message-ID: <960520012647_494495893@emout08.mail.aol.com>
ACK! When Damon Fibraio and DreamNDay left, somone had to step up. ;) Don't worry. I hadn't posted in a while and I had to blow my load with the DF/DND style of posting. Sorry. It won't happen much again. It's just that AOL's interface actually facilitates posting in this manner... And I just wanted to be a pain in the ass... And maybe sheer volume of posting is one of the things I need to do to get that coveted EoJ...
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Date: 20 May 96 01:25:29 EDT From: Dave Fernquist <103362.445@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: G.C. Stuff Message-ID: <960520052529_103362.445_JHL50-1@CompuServe.COM>
A fellow G.C. Fan wrote:
>I had a question about the song "I'm not amused" off of the first GC album. Is the guitar intro to this song done on a classical or an acoustic guitar?
When I saw them on the "Space in Your Face" tour, Ben was playing an acoustic/electric guitar (Ovation?) for that song (if I remember correctly). On the recent "Machine Fish" tour date in my area, they performed the song all electric (didn't sound as good IMO).
DTC: Mike, just got my WDATU and what can I say? Great Sh*t! Thanks again. Looking forward to SFAM!
Best Regards,
DFern
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Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 22:42:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Metallica single Message-ID: <199605200542.AA01214@crl14.crl.com>
I haven't heard it yet (nor anything else from the new albums, despite their availability on the Net), but 'Tallica could release an album of Gregorian plainchant and I'd probably buy it, 'cause they've been awfully coool to me and my friends (treated us like royalty at a few shows, really). Well, maybe not chants :), but when a band is cool to me, I tend to become a pretty devoted fan.
Metallica earned my respect by not adopting that "rock star" attitude too much, despite their huge success. I'm looking forward to hearing the new album. If it's good, I'll listen to it a lot, if not, there's still their live shows to look forward to, and I've yet to be disappointed in THEM (venues and crowds, well, that's different.....:))
-- +--- Paul W. Cashman vanyel@crl.com http://www.crl.com/~vanyel ---+ | Rush * Robert Jordan * Bonedance * Michael Moorcock * Metallica | | James P. Hogan * Dream Theater * Robert Heinlein * NIN * Dead | | Can Dance * Mercedes Lackey * Mutha's Day Out * Raymond Feist....|
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1563 **************************
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