YTSEJAM Digest 1562
Today's Topics:
1) Mail Item Format Warning
by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/19/96 - 20:18:51" <response@ibmmail.com>
2) fan theory/NDTC/metallica/arastar/subliminal message
by subtlerage@gnn.com (Andrew Miller)
3) big guy/magna carta disc
by subtlerage@gnn.com (Andrew Miller)
4) MP.
by Ben Laussade <laussade@enet.net>
5) Rage Against the Metallica :o)
by hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal)
6) Metallica and Long Hair....
by "Frank Benenati" <mojonet@pb.net>
7) Pshaw!
by Ben Laussade <laussade@enet.net>
8) So this is the Dream Theater mailing list...!?
by daverave@juno.com (David J Waller)
9) "IMO/IMHO/IMVHO"
by "Chase L. Eschauzier" <clesc@conncoll.edu>
10) Re: Metallica
by blane@nla.gov.au
11) Re: My F**k up
by blane@nla.gov.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:17:21 EDT
From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/19/96 - 20:18:51" <response@ibmmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
Message-ID: <199605191917.MAA05076@mindcrime.ax.com>
The mail item that you sent at 19:17:14 GMT on 19 May 1996 has been delivered.
However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:45:48
From: subtlerage@gnn.com (Andrew Miller)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: fan theory/NDTC/metallica/arastar/subliminal message
Message-ID: <199605191941.PAA30104@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com>
>three? I grew up on mainly non-keys guitar rock - old VH, metal, et al.,
>and watching those three jam seemed so pure to me. Maybe that's why I've
>always enjoyed playing in trios. Aw, who knows. I think I'm dangerously
>close to rambling at this point, so I'll wrap up by asking you all what
>you think of that Four Types of Fans theory.
i agree with your Four Types of Fans theory. i don't think you're
dangerously close to rambling, but you may be dangerously close to getting
flamed by a keyboardist!!! :-0
>Thunderstorms rock! Second one of the year tonight!
yeah, the rule. we had one the other night and lightning hit a tree about
50 yards from my house. cool. huh huh. huh huh.
> I hate when people say this. You want DTC? Start something up.
>Don't bitch about the lack of it, you have the power to change it.
no kidding! does anybody really think that bitching about NDTC is gonna
change anything? NO! if you don't like a thread, don't waste bandwidth
bitching about it, post a new thread. sheesh. (imho, of course)
>and all, but it also sounded MATURE. They have definitely moved ahead in
>their songwriting. In my own opinion, I think a Dream Theater fan would
>enjoy this new Metallica MUCH more than their Lightning or Puppets days
i might as well jump in on this one as well. i haven't even heard the new
Metallica single yet, but i'm anxious to. i'm not a big fan of metallica.
actaully, besides DT and queensryche, i don't like much metal. but from
what i've heard the die-hard metallica fans hate this song, so who knows; i
may like it. i know you metallica fans from the old school probably won't
like this, but i do like the Black album better than any of their previous
stuff. IMHO, the old stuff was too much. not enough dynamics, ya know?
with DT you get the LIE/MIRROR along with LSOAD on the same disc. that's
what i like; contrast.
>I'm not sure if I am sending this to the right person, but I am very
>interested in being on the Dream Theater mailing list. My mailing
>address is as follows:
>
>Bryan Holst
>2736 NW Edenbower #6
>Roseburg, OR 97470
i hope someone helps this poor soul.... he even addressed the email to
arastar...
>------------------------------
>
>End of YTSEJAM Digest 1561
>**************************
i want one of these. <<subliminal suggestion to ax.com--give subtlerage an
EoJ. you WILL give subtlerage an EoJ, and when i clap my hands, you shall
Awake>> oh wait,that's hypnosis, isn't it? :-) oh well.
==================================================
C O M E V I S I T M Y W E B P A G E!!!!!!!!
http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage
Andrew Miller - keyboardist - SubtleRage@gnn.com
- SubtleRage (progressive rock)
- Interum (new age/prog instrumental)
==================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 14:57:28
From: subtlerage@gnn.com (Andrew Miller)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: big guy/magna carta disc
Message-ID: <199605191952.PAA17698@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com>
> Hey Bafu, I don't think you'd want into the ring with myself and
>Mojo. I am 6'3" 210Lbs. He is 6'6" 260Lbs. When we sit down next to each
>other on a plane, it tilts to one side. I believe the old saying is "
>Where does a five hundred pound Gorrilla sleep? Wherever he wants!
you too huh? i stand 6'0" 275 pounds, and my shoulders usually brush the
door frame i happen to be walking through at the time. i've never actually
been on a plane though...... any of you play (american) football in
school? (totally NDTC BTW) i did for about a month, but they had to
special order a size 8 helmet for me. my head was 25 1/2 inches around!!!
ok, enough rambling.
>was the CD itself :( Has anyone else had trouble with this? Both my
>Shadow Gallery *and* Enchant CD cases have been cracked at the store (I
try http://www.cdnow.com (or it might be without the www, i can't
remember). they've got the full selection of magna carta discs, decent
prices, fast shipping, and the materials are always in good shape when ya
get them.
==================================================
C O M E V I S I T M Y W E B P A G E!!!!!!!!
http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage
Andrew Miller - keyboardist - SubtleRage@gnn.com
- SubtleRage (progressive rock)
- Interum (new age/prog instrumental)
==================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:16:21 -0700
From: Ben Laussade <laussade@enet.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: MP.
Message-ID: <199605192016.NAA07598@maple.enet.net>
Forgive me, for I have not read the ten or so Jams that I recieved after
this one (I'm way behind), so pardon anything I say that would be considered
repeating something.
>Ergo, I would say Portnoy is the best at his respective instrument for his
>immense wingspan, followed closely by Petrucci who probably has more
>equals than Portnoy on his instrument.
I dunno Bafu...drums are the ONLY instruments I carry an extensive
knowledge of...so, I can't say which member of DT is the best at his
instrument, but I can say there are many drummers that are as good as, or
better than Mike Portnoy IN THEIR RESPECTIVE STYLES. i.e., Dennis Chambers
(funk) and Mark Zonder. IMO, Mike and Mark are two completely different
types of drummers. I doubt Mike could keep up with Mark's super-complex
ride/hi-hat work, while Mark might not be able to keep up with Mike's sheer
intensity. But, there are ALSO drummers who can take both of those styles
and combine them to make something completely different. SIMON PHILLIPS, for
instance. It's hard to describe what he does, but to give you an idea, one
particular polyrhythm that he played actually made me piss my pants. If
anyone wants me to explain it, I'll E-Mail it privately. :-) Simon also adds
another dimension to his playing, by using a cool finger technique. He
plays triple strokes (RRRLLL) as fast as I can play finger strokes. And, he
is a seriously good double kick player. Another amazing drummer is Gene
Hoglan (of Death). He is just too fast. And NO, his beats are not all
double kick blast beats. He does seriously complicated beats using two ride
cymbals. Amazing. That is one drummer that has explored nearly every
possible way to use double kicks.
As for keyboardists...has anyone in New York heard of a piano player
named Elyane Laussade? That's my aunt. ;-) She's incredible.
>My personal favorite line: "Cow!"
>
Mine: "Who ARE these people?!"
>> This film had some incredible cinematography... truly noteworthy. The
>> writing and arrangement of the scenes was excellent as well, a
>> tribute to Spielberg's ability. You could actually FEEL the storm coming
>> from where you sat. The THX/SDDS soundtrack was no slouch.
Definately. I especially liked the low flying helicopter over a field
shots. Feels like yer flying. That movie really screwed with my head,
though. I was paranoid on the drive home waiting for tractors and such to
fly down in front of the car.
BTW....Cary Elwes with a Southern accent? Hmm...I liked him better as Wesley
in The Princess Bride.
>I get so sick of people judging bands by their looks. Hey, if DT all decided
>they were tired of the whole "metal/long hair" thing, would you stop
>listening to them? Would they no longer be "cool" to you?
On the Metallica subject.....I won't say anything until I hear the new music.
>PAT D! Forget DT for your wedding.....how 'bout "For Whom The Bell Tolls"
HA! I can actually hear the bass riff in the beginning being played on an
organ. Cool!!!
>> Miller, Pattitucci, Myung, or Ellefson could all eat Rex for breakfast
>> and floss with Rex's G-String.
Even if Rex DID wear a G-String....
"It's shifting!"
The Proudest Mr. Cool you ever seen.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 13:44:33 -0700
From: hawkeye7@ix.netcom.com (Larry Odneal)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Rage Against the Metallica :o)
Message-ID: <199605192044.NAA18412@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com>
Scott C. wrote:
>If we went by the logic of "this should be DT ONLY!" then I guess we
>should discontinue the Jam until the new disc is ready for release.
>. . . Also, the Metallica list completely sucks Blue Whale's Dad. The
>guy who runs that thing is a Fucking Idiot!
Bafu runs the Metallica list?????
Seriously, enough already! I knew I would piss a few of you off, but I
just thought there was an overabundance of Metallica postings on that
one 'jam. I happen to dislike the band, even though I thought the
beginning build-up of "Enter Sandman" was a study in dynamics. I guess
I started hating them when I saw Hetfield sneering at the camera on the
Grammy's appearance they did a few years back - it was so phony and
contrived that I couldn't take them seriously anymore. I also have
very little respect for Kirk Hammett's soloing abilities - I could cite
specific instances of things he does that I consider "mistakes" and/or
"sloppiness" but that would only piss you guys off even more.
Scott, I never said (and don't believe) that "this should be DT only!"
But if it came off that way, I'll be more careful to not let certain
threads bother me, and maybe try to skip the NDTC messages.
>>OK, I guess I'm on the rag today or something - just waiting for the
>>new DT CD and more DTC!
>
>Don't hold your breath.
No shit, especially if I have to hold it til February 1997! What a
letdown! But I have to agree - it'll be worth the wait for an album
that even approaches the quality of the last two major releases.
D-Man wrote:
>The question was raised recently why there is so much sudden
>discussion of Metallica. I have a possible solution. . . .
Thanks, Chris, for an intelligent analysis. I too am in the third
group - I just don't like M for the reasons given above. If it
matters, I _DO_ like Megadeth, Pantera, Rage Against the Machine,
Anthrax, Van Halen, Shadow Gallery, Enchant, Superior, Echolyn, Vai,
Satriani, Eric Johnson, DiMeola, McAlpine, the Moores (Vinnie & Gary)
etc. - and of course, Fourth Estate (Colorado reference). Not bad for
a guy in his fifth decade, huh?
Michelob wrote:
>I hate when people say this. You want DTC? Start something up.
>Don't bitch about the lack of it, you have the power to change it.
OK, you're exactly right! I'll try to do that!
BTW, has anybody heard from Timothy Lodge lately? I sent him a check
(still uncashed) for Instrumental II several weeks ago, and haven't
heard anything back in a while. Tim, if you're out there - I lost your
e-mail address; can you please write me about the CD?
Larry
"This is not Reality"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:58:35 -0400
From: "Frank Benenati" <mojonet@pb.net>
To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Metallica and Long Hair....
Message-ID: <199605192200.PAA06922@mindcrime.ax.com>
> From: Gilbert Thetgyi <102346.2730@CompuServe.COM>
> > I COULD HAVE predicted that they would cut their hair 3 years ago...
>
> I could have predicted that too...I could have also predicted that they
would
> bathe,
> sleep, and eat meals on a regular basis.
My reference to them cutting their hair is in reference to my feeling
that they cut their hair to 'jump on the bandwagon' so -to-speak....
I find that many bands nowadays are forced to cut their hair to remain
viable...because if you have long hair, your considered non-alternative,
non-grunge, or worse yet.....retro...
Im not concerning myself with style having anything to do with music...I
am only pointing out that it was a very bad time for those guys to shed
the locks if they didn't want to be viewed as trendy...
> Most award acceptance speeches are limited to 30 seconds to a minute,
> maximum. And that's for the Oscars. I don't think DT would ever mind
winning a
> Grammy.
Metallica at 92 MTV music awards...you know...the one with
Fartman....Lars blew hot air out of his mouth for exactly 1 minute and 40
seconds....AGAIN I wasn't focusing on the length, but the
content...{Instead of :
Thanks to ....blah,blah,blah
Lars said :
Finally, we get what we deserve....}
> They aren't completely accepted: I don't hear them on "light rock",
"easy
> listening",
> or as bumpers for talk shows. I also don't see a Robert Johnson
situation
> transpiring.
Wow man....I think you have to listen to what is Comercial Music...and
not Adult Contemporary.... I couldn't turn on MTV 2 years ago without
seeing Metallica....
and Ill bet it will be the same for Load...
> >>Obviously they are more concerned with record sales than musical
integrity.
>
> You also forgot "IMO".
No, I did not....
> I hope none of the quoted 'Jammers think I'm flaming them: I'm not.
Geez......fooled me...
*************************************************
>I think the artists descended from the
> music formerly known as metal realize that the image that you HAD to
have in
> the 80's is no longer necessary...
How about this.....At this point, I think it's more needed to have SHoRT
hair....of course you have some long haired exceptions....but back in the
80's you some short haired exceptions....(Phil Collen, Freddie Mercury)
Remember, music seems to tumble in extremes....some day...the long hair
is going to come back....popular music is always an antithesis of the type
of music just before it....
M O J O D O N ' T N E E D N O C O F F E E !!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:04:22 -0700
From: Ben Laussade <laussade@enet.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Pshaw!
Message-ID: <199605192204.PAA10695@maple.enet.net>
>And yes, Bafu is that cool in person. To find out for yourself, donate
>to the "Bafu at Ytsecon III Fund." (No, there isn't one yet, but we
>should start one.)
Hey..what am I? Chopped liver? Wait...don't answer that.
>PS Notice how this manages to afflict only the males of the 'jam?
Heehee.....remember The Three Amigos?
"It's a male plane!"
>Also, anybody who's heard 2 X 4 knows that it doesn't sound like Until It
>Sleeps.
That song kicks major ass. And, the little bit of "Devil's Dance" I heard
was in the vein of Thingy and For Whom the Bell Tolls. But, song titles
don't mean anything. When I bought I&W I was just sure that Surrounded was
going to be real heavy.
Oops.
>What I am blown away by is Death "Symbolic". I think this is the
>best cd I have got in a while. My question is: Why is their a "Parental
>Advisory - Explicit lyrics"??
That's funny...there wasn't one of those on my copy. And, you're right.
There are none.
>At least most of you guys were thoughtful enough to include "NDTC" in
>your header, but really, what does Metallica have to do with Dream
>Theater? Yea, I know DT covered one of their songs, and part of PMU
>has a dino-stomp-kinda-groove going for awhile, but many of us here
>can't stand Metallica and don't want to know about their single.
>
Since when did this turn into the "Whatever Larry Odneal Doesn't Like"
mailing list? No offense, but I don't care what you think unless it is
related to me. And, you know why? Because I'm an IRRITATING EGOCENTRIC
BASTARD, THAT'S WHY!
>The game with the peices and the timer was Perfection. what a great
>game! Not as good as Operation or mouse trap but a fun time at that.
>Any other MN jammers out there?
MOUSE TRAP! a.k.a, the game that five year old me could never figure out how
to build.
>First tape: Isao Tomita, "The Planets" (new age synthesized classical)
Is that Holst's planets synthesized? Or, some different planets? Cuz'
Holst's kick ass.
>Oh, no! Don Ho!
Don Ho and his brother.....Ass Ho.
>Also, the Metallica list completely sucks Blue Whale's Dad. The guy who
>runs that thing is a Fucking Idiot!
>
Blue Whale's Dad? Or is that Moby Dick's dad....Papa Boner?
>Most award acceptance speeches are limited to 30 seconds to a minute,
>maximum. And that's for the Oscars. I don't think DT would ever mind
winning a
>Grammy.
Unless they had to change the way they make music to do it.
>Anyway, I just heard Metallica's new single last night and I have to
>say that I like it A LOT! It fucking kicked ass!
Which just goes to show you (ballsandchunkballsandchunk) that people ARE
different. I can't think of anything to say, including anything about the
fact that Bafu posted a whole paragraph or two about how people are different.
>I'm not sure if I am sending this to the right person, but I am very
>interested in being on the Dream Theater mailing list. My mailing
>address is as follows:
>
>Bryan Holst
>2736 NW Edenbower #6
>Roseburg, OR 97470
>
Heehahahehehahehaha.
<send>
"It's shifting!"
The Proudest Mr. Cool you ever seen.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 18:12:57 PST
From: daverave@juno.com (David J Waller)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: So this is the Dream Theater mailing list...!?
Message-ID: <19960519.181259.9806.7.daverave@juno.com>
I've just subscribed to the DT list and I'd like to know a few things.
If you know you've seen these questions before and don't feel like answering them AGAIN, can you not say so but instead post the #'s of back
issues where I might find the answer...
Thanks in advance,
I'm daverave@juno.com <-big fan of DT, prefers quality over quantity any
day!!!
This is one of the only sources outside of the fan clubs where I'm
hoping to find release dates and tour dates!!! <feel free to discuss how
much that SUCKS!!!>
My first exposure to DT was at a Marillion show in 89, just after the
Wall came down.
Btw, it was my first Marillion show as well. I'm always having these
surprises when I go to shows, they go like this... 89 Marillion show-new
lead singer, I had no idea! They were playing tracks from the new album,
not a clue had I. I'd been a fan since 84.
Man, was I surprised...ran out after the show to buy the new disk. It's
always tough to play a Marillion show but DT blew me away with When
Dream and Day Unite.
I couldn't make out the lyrics because the music was so LOUD!!!
I've always appreciated good songs (music), a few from here and here...
Deep Purple, Zep, a little Sabbath, Ozzy. Not just the hits mind you, but
killer songs nonetheless (either HEAVY! or mellow). I picked
WhenDreamAndDayUnite and read the lyrics and was hooked - BIG FAN!!! I
was so pleased and impressed. At the show, Charlie D. came up to the
balcony with a couple of girls and I told him "Good set!!", and shook
his hand. Btw, the show was at the Ritz in NYC. I was also impressed by
the new Marillion as the band still maintained their own identity and
style, and the new lead singer proved himself to a whole crowd of
us...(Marillion fans are quite fanatical, he must've been plenty
nervous).
Soon after I saw both bands again at SunDance(a club on the Island, it's gone under). Now I was ready, I knew the lyrics and...I met Charlie D.
again, but he was in the crowd to see the show - THEY had changed lead singers. I asked him what happened, "You don't wanna know" is what he said
so I left it at that. We watched Marillion together and he was bumming
cigarettes off of me. He seemed kind of down so I told him how much I
like one of HIS songs, AFTERLIFE. His lyrics show lots of talent, he
must have wracked his brain and torn his heart out for them. I'm sure
it's because he loves music so much. He thanked me and I could see it meant a lot to him. I also met the rest of the band.
I have lots of respect for these guys and I want to see them make it.
Not with hit singles and videos so much as being able to make a living
at what they love and just generally being a happier band.
Got lucky shopping and picked up ImagesandWords. I was watching MTV and
saw the PullMeUnder and Lie videos and was very impressed again, even though I don't think I've seen them since. That's when I bought the Awake
album. Saw ChangeOfSeasons in a Columbia House ad, joined, got it,
ignored requests for payment from CH (grin).
I really like to read all kinds of stuff to kinda improve myself. I've
read most of Shakespeare's stuff (grin), Sherlock Holmes novels and
short stories, Plato and anything else of quality that I might happen
across. Does my heart good. So imagine my surprise when a band like DT starts pulling stuff out of the classics.
Remember reading about Plato in high school with that -shadows in a
cave- stuff. If I can remember it... The way we percieve reality is not
like seeing shadows on the wall in front of us that's coming from light and objects behind. It's only in direct sunlight, seeing others coming from the cave out into the LIGHT OF TRUTH that we can laugh at ourselves
because we know firsthand what they're going through. It's not a quote
or anything but there are similar expressions in DT lyrics. When Dream
And Day Unite is one hell of a tipoff!!! Some really powerful imagery!!
I feel that it's so refreshing when someone who sings about faith and
love and God, and what it's really like to be alive here and now, can
still produce some gut wrenching music. DT lyrics travel between
"viciousness and subtlety" and I, I just can't describe it. It's what makes me a DT nut!! It's not enough for these hero-like songs to punish the
wicked, they soothe your troubles and remind you what's important in
life...
Anyway, I wanted to ask about stuff like Charlie and Kevin leaving the
band. It's not as important as what's really going on. The fact that DT
exists is very rare and precious. The down side is, you have to find
them...it doesn't look like they'll be knocking your doors down with radio and MTV advertising. What the hell's wrong with this country anyway? Most people wouldn't know quality from their right hand!!!
And that's all I have to say about that,
"Pull me under, I'm not afraid!"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 18:41:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Chase L. Eschauzier" <clesc@conncoll.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: rdesc@conncoll.edu, dwyac@conncoll.edu
Subject: "IMO/IMHO/IMVHO"
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9605191808.B9512-0100000@dsys.cc.conncoll.edu>
This is not going to be the average complaining post. I could care less
what people write about---no I don't care to read about Metallica or
anything else on this list right now, but I can delete 'em as quick as I
get 'em, so who cares? I'll start reading them more closely when
something interesting is going on.
On another topic....
Settle down Gilbert!! All this "IMO" stuff has got to stop! If you are the
one writing it, of course it is your opinion. I learned that in Junior
High English. Writing IMO, IMHO, or IMVHO after everything we say is
redundant and simply states the obvious. It is also annoying to have
those letters follow everything we write. Let's try not doing it and see
what happens---I'll bet everyone still expresses their opinion, just
without telling us that they are expressing it.
c l e s c @ c o n n c o l l . e d u
"CIRCLE OF FIRE MY BAPTISM OF JOY AT AN END IT SEEMS.
THE SEVENTH LAMB SLAIN, THE BOOK OF LIFE OPENS BEFORE ME.
BUT I WILL PRAY FOR YOU, AND SOMEDAY I MAY RETURN.
DON'T YOU CRY FOR ME, BEYOND IS WHERE I LEARN."
chase l. eschauzier connecticut college class of 1997
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:06:17 +0000
From: blane@nla.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Metallica
Message-ID: <199605192314.JAA23788@email.nla.gov.au>
Hiya Jamm-ville,
Just a few comments on the new Metallica stuff. I friend of mine
downloaded some of their new tunes of the Net a few months ago. They
were recorded live so the sound was a bit poor but enuf to dry ones
appetite. None of the songs were this new 'sleeper' ? song. One was
in a similar vain to Damage/Battery which was ok. There other was
some weird-ass blues funky crap with Kurt going sick with a wah-wah.
DTC: Just got about 10 hours worth of DT marterial, boots and other
stuff, from Evan, its _real_ hard to get no commercial releases here
so this is like heaven. Must say the 86 Demos are quite impressive
and I fully dig Dane of Eternity.
Brett
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:09:25 +0000
From: blane@nla.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: My F**k up
Message-ID: <199605192317.JAA15904@email.nla.gov.au>
Ok before every one starts flaming, I meant Kirk not Kurt in my
Metallica post. Big fuck-up sorry etc but its early in the morning
here.
Brett
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1562
**************************
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