YTSEJAM Digest 1567
Today's Topics:
1) Re: JP's Effect/ Satch, etc..
by dan.souza@uucomet (DAN SOUZA)
2) Mail Item Format Warning
by "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/21/96 - 06:48:18" <response@ibmmail.com>
3) Hiya Kevin and Death Metal
by napkins@clandjop.com (Seth Hatlelid)
4) Re: King Crimson
by Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
5) Metallica, King Crimson, Tori Amos, Hair
by Mike Backof <mbacko1@umbc.edu>
6) Re: G.A.S.
by "Steven C. Young" <syoung@primenet.com>
7)
by
8) What is a musician?
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
9) Larry Odneal can't get enough DT!
by akyuz@mxsg1.epfl.ch
10) defense
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
11) NDTC - YAPROSb - *** Warning - LONG ! ***
by Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
12) Ivanhoe
by Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
13) New DT Fan
by Jay Runde <jrunde@glenqcy.glenayre.com>
14) Flames in perspective: the cynical alternative.
by Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 96 01:38:00 -0200
From: dan.souza@uucomet (DAN SOUZA)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Re: JP's Effect/ Satch, etc..
Message-ID: <8C10062.019000B349.uuout@uucomet>
[someone wrote]
> From: cng@tcco.com
> Subject: JP's sound on Change of Seasons
> There is one part in "Change of Seasons" that blows me away every time
> I hear it. John Petrucci switches to this tone that sounds like Joe
> Satriani's "Surfing...". Can someone tell me how he gets that sound?
> I've played around with the flanger and compression on my effects unit
> but it doesn't sound right.
Hmm..if I understood your doubt, that part souds to me like a wha-wha
effect. It's almost a flanger, I know, but the tone is a little
diferent.. Try stepping on a cry baby/wha-wha pedal slowly..;)
About Satriani: he is here in Brazil. If I can I'll ask him about it. :)
The concert is tonight and I won't lose it for nothing!
> ------------------------------
Yt> talent to do that (IMO). So my question to the 'jammers (so we can
Yt> talk about anything other than Metallica) is Are singers musicians?
Yt> and Are Death Metal singers musicians?
Yup! Singers are musicians, 'cause they need to understand the music,
and know the tones to sing.. are not sufficient having a good voice, you
need to practice, and you need to know how, IMO..
And NOPE! Death Metal Singers aren't musicians, they are not even
singers, IMO too..
[]'s Dan.
.. Seize the day... life will not always be this way.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:46:49 EDT
From: "RESPONSE at IBMMAIL 05/21/96 - 06:48:18" <response@ibmmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mail Item Format Warning
Message-ID: <199605210546.WAA05342@mindcrime.ax.com>
The mail item that you sent at 05:46:24 GMT on 21 May 1996 has been delivered.
However, it has been necessary to convert this item into a
format that is acceptable to the recipient, FITIPMOL at IBMMAIL.
Information beyond column 79 in the mail item will have been wrapped.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:00:55 -0500
From: napkins@clandjop.com (Seth Hatlelid)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Hiya Kevin and Death Metal
Message-ID: <v01510100adc6f870d8b1@[204.71.98.55]>
Hiya,
Wow Kevin!!! Thank you VERY much! It's really nice to see that
people can have diametrically opposing viewpoints, state them in a polite
manner, and then back them up with evidence. Bravo Kevin! I still disagree
with you about Symbolic being very original and here is why:
Lyrics: IMHO they are not original ideas, (they maybe original for the
genre, but remember the first time someone took a shit it was original, it
was new and exciting, it was creative, but when all was said and done, it
was still just a pile of shit.)
Not all death metal bands sing about Satan or body parts. Sepultura sings
about the importance of individuality and creativity to the human spirit.
Korn sings about the all-too-true cruelty of people towards people who are
different in some way. Fear Factory sings about the sociological problems
of society coruppting the minds of the young. BY the same token, Death's
lyrics are not original:
Symbolic=Ignorance and Innocence (Overkill)
Zero Tolerance=New Breed (Fear Factory)
Empty Words=One Child (Savatage)
1,000 Eyes=1984 (Orwell)
Without judgement=Captive Honour (Megadeth)
Crystal Mountain=Pisschrist (Fear Factory), The God that Failed (Metallica)
Misanthrope=Reckoning Day (Megadeth)
Perennial Quest=Tomorrow, Tomorrow (Annie)
There are other comparisons of course.
The musicianship is very good, but the music is second-rate. I'm sorry but
they sound like slow crunch-fast blast-slow crunch-weird guitar to me .
Pretty standard stuff. They can play well, but they aren't too creative.
I know the drummer beats on a propeller but Sepultura was using propane
tanks and Korn was using hollow, rusty poles as well. The music follows
standard formulas and lacks melody in any way shape or form (even Slayer
can be more melodic). The vocals and vocal phrasing are atrocious. The
"leaving a very deep scar" line from Zero Tolerence is especially bad.
Megadeth writes much more comlex stuff than symbolic (At least they used
to). All in all, Death is just too stagnant. Symbolic could have been
released in the 1983 Florida Death Metal bonaza. They simply have not
evolved and have become as stale as the entire genre of pure death metal
(Cathedral, Decide, Cannibal Corpse) and have been left behind the new
generation of death metal led by Sepultura, Korn, Fear Factory, Type O
Negative. These bands have merged detah metal with various other styles of
music to remain fresh and creative. I'll think I'll stay with my "Roots"
But I do appreciate Kevin's not being offensive and I hope I have replied
in kind.
PS if metallica hadn't evolved with the trends since Ride the Lightning
(which was considered a sell-out album even then, we would still be stuck
with such stupid songs as "Hit the Lights" and we never would have heard
the Brilliant Master of Puppets. Metallica has already shown us that they
can thrash like monsters, maybe now they want to see how strong of
songwriters they can be. If Metallica wamts to mellow out and sell more
albums, more power to them.
Cheers!
NAPKINS HAS WIPED UP MOJO'S SPILT COFFEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
napkins@clandjop.com
Seth Hatlelid
"I just bought a Bass Masters Magazine and all the articles were about
freakin fishing, not one word about Jaco or Myung. What gives!"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 02:13:26 -0400
From: Jon Byrne <rael@access.mountain.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: King Crimson
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960521021631.2bd76068@access.mountain.net>
At 09:28 PM 5/20/96 -0700, you wrote:
>OK,/me asks for advice from any King Crimson fans on the jam... which CD do
>you think I should get first..."In the Court of the.." or "Discipline"? I
>want to hear something really edgy and aggressive, yet really out there.
>I've heard 21st Century Schizoid Man already on the GD boxed set,and liked
>it, but a lot of people have recommended Discipline... what do y'all think?
A hard choice. They really represent two completely different bands (IMHO).
_In the Court..._ has some really aggressive stuff (like "21st") and some
more "airy" stuff. There are also a couple of places that sound like
they're just winging it. _Discipline_ is not as heavy, but good lord is it
chock full of great stuff. From really intricate, to kinda funky, to a
great tune with a cool calm groove and some super guitar synth solos over
top. _Discipline_ is closer to what Crimson is now, since all the members
on that album are still around. In fact, you may want to get _Thrak_, their
latest. It raelly blends the _Discipline_-type intricate rhythmic stuff
with a nice edge.
So, in short, get all three of 'em! :-)
Jonathan Byrne
rael@access.mountain.net
West Virginia University '96
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Wonder women draw your blind!
Don't look at me I'm not your kind
I'm Rael!"
-Genesis, "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 01:25:02 -0700
From: Mike Backof <mbacko1@umbc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Metallica, King Crimson, Tori Amos, Hair
Message-ID: <31A17DDE.2040@umbc.edu>
Hello Jammers,
Metallica
---------
I still listen to "Master of Puppets" and "And Justice For All" somewhat
regularly, I got sick of hearing the songs on the Black album, I heard
the new singer and sorta like it, but I really don't consider it anywhere
near the quality of "Master of Puppets". I probably will see them on
tour, I have to go surfing for tour dates.
King Crimson (Discipline or ITCOTCK)
------------
I would choose "Discipline" over "Court." If you want to get a good idea
of what a "polyrhythm" is check out Bruford's drumming on Discipline,
plus there is just some killer instrumental work along with Belew's
quirky David Byrne style (Belew played with Zappa and Talking Heads prior
to King Crimson) vocals and funny, well written lyrics ("Elephant Talk",
"Thela Hun Ginjeet" are examples). Court has some great vocals by Greg
Lake, really melodic on Epitaph and Court, Schizoid Man is also a great
tune. The improv "Moonchild" is OK but it is really quiet and meanders,
one of Crimson's weakest improvs IMO. The drumming on the whole album is
exceptional and Fripp's guitar is solid but not as killer as it becomes
in the 1970s. Discipline doesn't have a single weak song.
Tori Amos (why we like her)
---------
Why do we like Tori? I think she writes some very original, well
arranged music, with brilliant (if depressing) lyrics, and she has a
unique voice that I enjoy. I picked up "Little Earthquakes" after I saw
the video for "God" on MTV (one of a few moments that I have watched that
station, and even rarer that a music video was actually on) and after
several listens I became a big Tori fan and bought all of the studio
albums and as many of the singles that I could find. (Tori is big on
B-sides) As to her relation to DT, other than "Winter" and Kevin's
version of "Song for Eric" there doesn't seem to be a direct connection.
Hair
---- Would you guys cut out the "sell-out" if your hair is short accusations! This is terribly annoying, what a band member looks like has nothing to do with how talented of a musician they are. Shit, if Derek Sherinian looked like E.T., I still would like DT and buy their music. Wouldn't make a bit of difference.Or like Ray formerly from echolyn (now bass player and vocalist for Still) said after he cut his long hair, "I can actually get up and not spend hours messing with this rag."
Later,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Michael Backof mbacko1@umbc.edu http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1 WWW Pages - Unsigned Bands: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/munsign.html WWW Pages - Inferno Page: http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~mbacko1/inferno.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 23:28:02 -0700 From: "Steven C. Young" <syoung@primenet.com> To: "'YtseJam Digest'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: G.A.S. Message-ID: <01BB46A4.1BD5D500@ip146.tus.primenet.com>
G.A.S. UPDATE!!!
We are now more than halfway through the month of May, and the number of G.A.S. participants has reached 65! We're right on pace for the goal of 100 'jammers. For those of you who haven't yet participated, I would greatly appreciate your joining forces in this, as I find it interesting to know where the general interest of the YtseJam as a whole lies. Top 10 lists (that can include DT) can be E-mailed to:
and will be received until May 31st, at 11:59pm. Lists will be tallied and a non-DT band/artist will be crowned on June 1st (my wife's birthday), and complete results (ALL bands/artists received and number of votes) will be posted on or about that day.
ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: ATTENTION!!!!!: Please send all entries in a 10-band format. I've been getting FIVES and a couple with ONE vote.
Also, I STILL need to hear from BOGIE and ADAM COOK - you guys only left me five bands to work with - help!
------------------------------
Current Top 5 (non-DT) as of 5/20/96, out of 202 bands/artists received: 1) Rush (39 votes) -> It's August for their next LP - "Test for Echo"!!! 2) Queensryche (36) 3) Fates Warning (27) 4) Metallica (17) -> New CD out in 15 days!!! 5) King's X (16) -> New CD out TOMORROW!!!
Yes, Extreme, Marillion, Savatage, and Shadow Gallery are also strong contenders for a spot in the Top 5.
Rush is beginning to pull away from the pack. Unless QR makes a tremendous showing in the next week or so, Rush will be crowned G.A.S. Champs.
11 days left before the deadline - plenty of time - We're still shooting for 100 participants (we're going to need quite a push!) So, get out and vote, you guys. C'mon, it'll be fun! Muchos thankos to those who have played the game already - you guys rule.
Steve from Tucson syoung@primenet.com
"There's not a man, woman or child alive that doesn't enjoy a lovely beverage." - David Letterman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 00:55:40 -0700 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: What is a musician? Message-ID: <199605210755.AAA17630@cats.ucsc.edu>
I stand by my earlier definition: A musician is anyone who spends time learning how to improve their musical abilities.
The moment someone stops learning, stops trying to improve, they stop being a musician. They might still be a performer, they might still be a composer, but they aren't a musician. __ /\ __ +-------------------------------------+ __\/__\/__ | ~Chris |-+ \_||_/ | For a boring homepage, web to: | | /__||__\ | http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/ | | // \ | \\ +-------------------------------------+ | \| +-------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:37:55 +0100 From: akyuz@mxsg1.epfl.ch To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Larry Odneal can't get enough DT! Message-ID: <adc75935000210042b67@[128.178.99.18]>
Larry Odneal writes:
>Shit! Somehow I got switched over to the Metallica/Hockey mailing list. >I used to be on a Dream Theater list, but something strange happened. > >>Avalanche are next to go down, anyone care to argue? >> > >Sure, how 'bout this - Take this crap to the >"alt.sports.hockey.dorks.who.wear.stupid.hockey.hats" area > >At least most of you guys were thoughtful enough to include "NDTC" in >your header, but really, what does Metallica have to do with Dream >Theater? Yea, I know DT covered one of their songs, and part of PMU >has a dino-stomp-kinda-groove going for awhile, but many of us here >can't stand Metallica and don't want to know about their single. > >OK, I guess I'm on the rag today or something - just waiting for the >new DT CD and more DTC!
OK this IS a DT mailing list, but I believe everyone can have a go at whatever he wants, no? It'd be boring as shit if only DT made it to the jam. Half the fun is talking about other things, flaming other groups, people and tastes than DT. And DT aren't always out there making news.
If you're tired of having to clean up your jam jars too often, just say, right? or cope with this being a democracy. The jam will remain mainly DT, but if you can't stand reading or writing about something else, that's your problem.
So keep cool, take it easy, and de-focus.
Or unsub.
See ya.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Dave King (somewhere in Switzerland)
"Holding on is easier than letting go" Fates Warning ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:53:15 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: defense Message-ID: <31A1BCBA.15FB@mailstorm.dot.gov>
Zack Gemmill wrote:
> In the past, we've been successful in defending DT against > the infidels. Now that "Mindcrimer" is on the scene, that's > changing. I think I'll just stay out of it unless someone > says something really inane. Kasia is a fool, anyway. > Oh well, let them live their little illusions...
> Zach
Grasshopper, :)
One need not defend a position which is inherently sound (pun intended). Just sit and watch 'em topple :)
Later,
*------------*------------------------*----------------* | Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | (617)-494-2851 | *------------*------------------------*----------------*
"In any organization there will always be one person who knows what is going on. This person must be fired."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:37:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: NDTC - YAPROSb - *** Warning - LONG ! *** Message-ID: <199605211337.JAA13668@mail.ee.net>
Thats - Yet Another Positive Review of Superior's behind (CD).
What can I say that's not already been said? Well, its the Internet, so who cares. For those of you who keep forgetting the obvious, this is all JUST MY WORTHLESS OPINION.
This band is great. It's hard to believe that they're not yet available on any major (or minor) labels.
For all you nitpickers (like me :)), the band's style is very similar to most of what you currently hear in the genre of progressive metal.
The production is very clean. Most of the discussion on this list and the labelling of the CD indicate that this CD is self-produced. One of the guys must work days as a sound engineer.
The guitar sound is very aggressive, much like Pantera, without becoming boringly repetitive (like Pantera). The guitarist is on this list and he does a fantastic job, so I'm not going to over-analyze. (Bernd, come up with a name for the next CD that is easier to use in a sentence without sounding like a body part.)
The vocalist is superb. His style suggests nice hair ;) His range and presentation are similar to Labrie and Tate. He does scream (not always a bad thing) in one song, Tainted Silence. I liked the vocals in this song a lot. They demonstrate his range very well. No growling-dog-death-metal vocals on this CD, thank goodness.
The bass was there. My untrained ears don't ever hear the cool stuff (like in TTT and ACOS) unless some bass-head like Dr. Mosh points it out to me or I listen to the CD a million times with headphones.
I've never been a drum nut either. I have an appreciation for drums and usually can last about 1 or 2 minutes of a Portnoy or Peart solo before wishing the other members to return. My 5-year old daughter is the one with the ears for the drums, and she likes the cool cymbal part in one of the early songs (Why? - thats the name of the song not an assessment of her listening).
Sorry about putting keyboards last. Damon's on vacation, and I hope the NuGgeTmAn doesn't flame me for it. I have to be honest; I'm an 80's cock-rock guitar fan. I was annoyed by keyboards before DT. Now I really judge a band's overall talent by its keyboards. Maybe that's dumb. I ramble. The keys on this CD are excellent. There is an almost continuous presence of background synth keys that add a lot of "depth" and "color" to the music whatever the hell that means. There is also these piano (I'm not good enough to know if its real, so don't ask) parts that jump out every now and then without ever getting on my nerves, so I guess that means I like it. They aren't really harmony parts, but somehow they contrast real well with the guitar parts. Being an idiot in musical terminology I don't know what to call it. (swinging parrots maybe) It reminds me of Kansas' use of piano on the Elefante albums (just the piano, not the whole CD).
The lyrics are available on the internet for all the lyric critics on the list. I'm the kind of person that ignores the lyrics unless they're absolutely offensive (by my standards). Overall, the lyrics are more "realistic" than DT. That's in quotes because I really don't understand what that means. The NIN guy from a couple a months back will understand what I'm talking about.
This CD is different from most of what you hear in prog music is that it doesn't seemly as outwardly pretentious as most. The band doesn't really get in the masturbatory, "see how great I am" mode on any of the songs.( Don't get me wrong, I love pretentious masturbatory music, too.) As a result, its hard to really get a feel for the limits of their ability. Not that I care, since I like what I hear.
For all you comparison nuts, forget it. I'm not going to do anything stupid like compare them to other bands. Actually, yes I will. I agree with Mike Backof. If you love Dream Theater, Shadow Gallery, and those types of bands, you will die if you don't have Superior's behind (CD).
In Summary: Musically - excellent, good mix of styles, no theatrics. Vocally - top notch. as good or better than many. Lyrically - more down to earth, no spaceships, Narnias, etc Production - very good. surprisingly professional for homemade.
If you don't have this CD yet, order it now. To order in USA or Canada go to:
http://www.why.net/users/jskewes/jsmusic.html
or email:
Elsewhere:
http://gaia.owl.de/~fine/superior.html http://www.rmi.de/~marvin/superior.html http://www.why.net/users/jskewes/jsmusic.html http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/~goebel/sup.html http://info.rpkk.fi/opsivut/y95b/mikko.kalermo
or email:
basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de or superior@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 09:49:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Ivanhoe Message-ID: <199605211349.JAA14149@mail.ee.net>
For those of you seeking Ivanhoe:
I recently ordered Ivanhoe's CDs, _Visions_and_Reality_ and _Symbols_of_Time_ from Media Play on the east side of Columbus, Ohio, USA. They arrived in two weeks and cost $12.99 each. They are both issued by Avalanche Records here in the states. I had been looking on the Internet and Goldmine for these CDs. The going rate for them there was $18-$25 and they were never available. I think most import dealers are buying from WMMS.
Happy shopping!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 96 9:04:46 CDT From: Jay Runde <jrunde@glenqcy.glenayre.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: New DT Fan Message-ID: <199605211435.HAA10574@mindcrime.ax.com>
I got another person into DT the other night. Actually I have only met this person on the net, and she ended up buying Awake. Here is a direct quote from the e-mail she sent me. "I just finished listening to Dream Theater. I love -- good recommendation."
So we now have another DT fan. I am going to be meeting her in late June and will bring all my DT CDs so she can give them a listen also.
-- James Runde - Glenayre One Glenayre Way Quincy, IL 62301 jrunde@glenqcy.glenayre.com Compassion -- that's the one thing no machine ever had. Maybe it's the one thing that keeps men ahead of them. -- McCoy, stardate 4731.3
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 10:58:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Flames in perspective: the cynical alternative. Message-ID: <199605211458.KAA17269@mail.ee.net>
A simple four-step process to expand your initial feelings of rage when someone flames you on the Internet:
#1 - Compare the flame-job to the rest of the mail you receive, or the rest of the responses you receive on a mailing list to which you post. If you receive ten e-mails a day, and only one of them is negative, flame the other nine for wasting your time with happy mail. If only 10% of your responses are negative, you need to be more assertive in your approach. Just make sure you torch the one guy, first. Compare that flame to previous flames you and others have sent. Be sure to criticize any weaknesses in the quality of the flame and well as the person's opinion that got you so fired up in the first place.
#2 - Compare your e-mail with the rest of the things you do on the Internet. Are you sure that you are channeling your anger into every medium possible? Ever take over an IRC channel and play God to its worthless participants? Ever hack and crash a web-site? That's a much more productive means of retribution than any email you could possibly write. Flame-mail isn't all I use my account for, and it isn't the only outlet of personal frustration that the Internet has to offer.
#3 - Compare your Internet usage with the rest of the damage you can do with a computer. Do you write viruses, worms, or Trojan horses? Do you have any idea of the destructive potential you may be frittering away by using WordPerfect or some other so-called productivity program?
If I'm only spending about one-fifth of my time on the computer is spent reading and writing e-mail, it's not that big a deal, as long as I'm equally destructive the other four-fifths.
#4 - What significance does the computer have with the rest of the things that irritate you during the day? (or night?) Does it hold the same importance as the the guy who cuts you off in traffic. Is it as frustrating as those calls from telemarketers? There are numerous opportunities every day to let your rage go.
Summary:
If computer e-mail is the only tool you can use to vent anger, you are wasting your potential. Find something else to get angry about. Start religious and political discussions with friends and co-workers. Respond with flame snail mail to letters to the editor. Call in to TV and radio talk show and let everyone know that you are mad as hell and you're not going to take it anymore.
Why should you care what anyone thinks of you? Rage is just a part of you. You can't control it, release it.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1567 **************************
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