YTSEJAM Digest 2005
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Godot
by Nick Guadagnoli <nguadagn@acme.csusb.edu>
2) Fine
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
3) DT theme for WIN95
by GREG <gkrasnos@webspan.net>
4) Blah Blah and More Blah
by Heather Powers <ladydragon@earthlink.net>
5) YtseRumors
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
6) bass tab stuff
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
7) A few thoughts....
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
8) HELP LISTPROC
by Scott Kriefall <skriefal@prairie.lakes.com>
9) From :)
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
10) Vai
by Dave Hatlee <buster@ee.net>
11) My apology to Dr. Mosh and the future of the trader list
by John McCabe <caber1@concentric.net>
12) Re: My apology to Dr. Mosh and the future of the trader list
by Kain <kain@caribe.net>
13) Re: YtseRumors
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
14) Ramses....The Ruler and The Condom
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
15) the tin drum. hehehe.
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
16)
by drkhoe@gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:46:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick Guadagnoli <nguadagn@acme.csusb.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Godot
Message-ID: <199611081746.KAA17564@acme.csusb.edu>
Jammerz who don't want to go to the library--
Godot is a reference to the play "Waiting for Godot," by Sam Beckett, one
of my absolute favorite playwrights. The premise of the play is odd, and
you have to go to the theater expecting to be forced to think in order to
get a damn thing out of the play.
It's about a guy waiting for another guy, named Godot (pronounced GuhDOE),
who incidentally never shows up. The majority of the play is about the
first guy's relationship with a third guy who he met while "waiting for
Godot."
It's pretty weird. I need to read it again. Also, readers, check out
"The Bald Soprano," also by Beckett. No bald people, no sopranos or any
singing for that matter.
I believe the last line from "...Godot" is "let's go, then!" [they stand
there.] {curtain}
--Nick,
The ProgRockBoy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:32:12 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fine
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961108193212.0072a370@enteract.com>
>> I am neither ignorant of ANY guitar related technique nor eloquent
>Oh yeah? Ever try a glissando-stop? (no, it's not just a double-stop for
>the guitar) What about a double fanucci? Think "allegretto" and "andante."
>Keep in mind that a single fanucci can't exist since you need two--whoops,
>almost gave it away... And what about that pesky ottava cycle?
You might assume by my admitted lack of eloquence that I don't keep
up with names of every fucking technique ever invented. I'm not a very
schooled player, and have never taken an actual instructed Theory course
(which may be my downfall, because I may lack the discipline to teach myself
all the theory I would like to know). I find talking technical terms to be
bullshit, for all general purposes outside of instruction, and I consider it
to be very similar to guys talking about how much horsepower their cars
have. It's the same as the kids who come back from a semester at Berklee
and say "Tritone" this or "Tritone" that when the tritone has no relevance
in the musical passage they're referring to.. It's not appropriate to use
technical terms in a conversation when something can be described much more
clearly in working terms... one of many reason's I've never had a need to
use even the ones I know.
There are a lot of players who can talk up a textbook... that can't
or don't apply their words in a real playing situation. Considering the
fact that I've played (or attempted... I am no god) a good deal of many
styles (excluding Jazz which I'm now getting into and Country which I may
try at some other point) I probably know and utilize in practice some --
maybe many of the terms you just brought out.
I find this kind of "testing" to be immature and self serving. What
you've stated in your post are terms. Technique is in application. If I
don't know the name for everything I play, then I concede to you that I am
perhaps ignorant of some musical terms. I simply haven't had an instructor
that uses these terms frequently, and get little out of reading arcane
textbooks that do little for me but expand my vocabulary of ancient and
unused terms. I prefer to learn by practice. If it feeds your ego to know
that I don't know these words, then fine. As I've stated, I find terms as
these to be of no significance in playing guitar, or appreciating music.
Music is sound. I will never be heard saying "Listen to that double
fanucci! Man, does that wail!" I prefer to listen and play... not to name
every movement of every tendon. If you feel the need to reply to this, be
man enough to take it to personal e mail. This post (which was only on the
jam because your questions were posed on the jam) and the one it responds to
are not something I enjoy writing or reading. It's bullshit.
>> It is DEFINATELY not always distinctive. I can show you 10 shredders
>> that all sound close to the same.
>
>PLEASE LIST THEM.
In saying this you're asking me to be an asshole to players who
other members of this list may enjoy thoroughly. I refuse to do this in a
public post. I've learned from my mistakes. I think this is very petty of
you to ask of me. Do know, that I have little respect for you after having
read this, and have no urge to feed your ego. I wrote a detailed response
to this part of the post, but decided that it would be unfair to the artists
I had named to give them bad publicity. For this reason, the post will not
be sent to a list with 800+ users. I try to respect anyone I consider a
musician. As such I try to (with some exceptions, if I fly off the handle)
make it clear when posting a bad review of a band or artist that you should
give it a shot yourself. If I tell you "X Upcoming band" sucks, it won't
make everyone who reads it not buy the album, but it will influence the
decision to an extent. My tastes differ greatly from many of yours... for
instance, I disliked Savatage's HOR (though I've always loved the band). I
just don't like knocking players... I'm guilty of doing it... especially to
bands, but I still find it distasteful. I will refuse to knock a whole list
of guitarists. Anyone who wants the list of 10 ( I actually had more than
10 to work with) guitarists who I find to be without distinct voice, write
me an email with the subject LIST OF SHREDDERS. Don't write anything in the
body of the message, because i'm not reading them, just replying.
Thank you for making this a beautiful day, Mr. Borzilleri.
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 14:34:21 -0500
From: GREG <gkrasnos@webspan.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT theme for WIN95
Message-ID: <32838B3D.7546@webspan.net>
I just downloaded the dt theme for win95, but i am having problems
opening up the file. Can anybody help me?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 14:33:54 -0500
From: Heather Powers <ladydragon@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Blah Blah and More Blah
Message-ID: <32838B22.6E0E@earthlink.net>
Perhaps I am grasping at straws once again...but seeing as how IM
BACK!!! Does anyone know of a decent guitar player in the NY/NJ/PA area
who would be interested in working on a progressive metal side project?
Now that Dragonlady is off of the road, I want to finish up some ideas
that need completing.
Also, whoever E Mailed me last week...I lost it..so try again (Im bring
tapes to the DT show this year so whoever missed me last year might find
me this time..no more white car with a zillion stickers though..I've got
a truck now)
Enough incessant babbling from me
Lady Dragon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:39:19 -0500 (EST)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: YtseRumors
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9611081404.W10133-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
> From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
> Subject: An apathy error has occurred...
>
> ..don't bother to press any key
heh heh heh. :)
> your health. If, for example, I was to tell you that Mike Portnoy's favourite
> way of keeping fit (which he also recommends to the members of the Ytsejam) is
> to jump into the path of oncoming trains... It just doesn't bear thinking about.
He *did* shave his head back in August, though.
> But now onto some real news. The band have announced that a certain Mr. Prater
> will be the producer of the new album, and that the new album will indeed have
> a literary title (as I predicted). The album will be called 'The Tin Drum'
> (think about it). For those of you who don't know, the book was written by the
> brilliant German author Guenther Grass.
Ah, so Mike pulled the piccolo snare back out of the closet, huh?
----> From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@u.arizona.edu> > Subject: New DT songs. > > Peace be with you and God bless.
I didn't sneeze.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:37:09 -0600 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: bass tab stuff Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961108193709.006c0764@mail.inlink.com>
yo, ok i'm on the lookout for any DT bass tab stuff... if you got it, mail me, or mailto:jared@stlnet.com Aaron Happe
tanz ~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:30:36 -0800 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A few thoughts.... Message-ID: <199611081930.LAA15354@main.cfmc.com>
I actually had the Jam fire my last post BACK at me....I sent a 10K'er. And it knows that no one really wants to read 10K or my musings...heh. So you'll probably end up getting what I did in parts....
>Mike Bahr wrote: >HYF... nothing they've written "matters". I mean, really, look at songs >like Roll The Bones and Half The World. Who the fuck CARES?? Those topics >are so nebulous and ponderous that a person in today's world who is >fighting to get ahead, reaching out to new people, and soon to settle down >to married life simply cannot relate. >Dream Theater, for me and most of you, is breathtakingly current >right now. I had Awake on rotation play, alone, solo, for MONTHS following >its release. DT is absolutely involved in the here and now and their music >is a reflection of the same reality that we are also experiencing.
(Actually....he said a lot more, but I tossed that digest out and am responding to a quote of him)....
I agree with the notion that Rush has not quite equalled the brilliance of "Hold Your Fire" since that point, but I would say that "Hold Your Fire" has ushered in perhaps their most brilliant era -- I would say that "Roll The Bones" and "Counterparts" stack up well against "Permanent Waves" or "Moving Pictures"... or "Images And Words" and "Awake." "Test For Echo" has camped out in my CD player longer than any record since...well, "Counterparts." The new record is probably a middle-of-the-pack record for the band, stronger than "Caress of Steel," not as strong as "Hemispheres," and it's still the most amazing album of the year, by a clear shot.
Dream Theater is a great band....they fight, in my head, with bands like the Galactic Cowboys and King's X as the great band to emerge the last 5 or 10 years. Their best tunes -- "Only A Matter Of Time," "Scarred," "A Change Of Seasons," and, especially, "Learning To Live" -- are amazing, hitting heights most bands could only dream of. But Rush's music is realized at that level consistently. It's just awesome. Simple question: Who the fuck cares? Simple answer: Me. I'm about the same age you are, Mike, in about the same position. I do, after all, take this mail at my "real" job, laden with "real" responsibilities and all of that. I would go so far as to say that Rush is becoming increasingly LESS nebulous, lyrically and musicially. The band is becoming even easier, perhaps, to sink one's teeth into. "Cinnamon Girl" was pointed to my Mike as a great song about relationships. Agreed. It still isn't in the same zip code as "Cold Fire." The whole issue of imparting meaning in one's life -- "Dreamline." These are not insignificant issues or issues only for the young. They're REAL. Rush speaks to me, brilliantly. It isn't that Dream Theater doesn't....just not as much, despite the fact that I'm much closer in age to John Myung than Geddy Lee.
One thing that I thought I'd throw out there: I think MY point of divergence from the folks here is Type O Negative. They're amazingly popular here, and I just don't know why. I mean, I even HAVE "Bloody Kisses" The cover of "Summer Dream" is amusing, but that's about the size of it. I'm just not impressed by the band....they're kinda boring, I guess. Not bad, just not interesting. Could be worse....Depeche Mode, for example.
Ah well....I think Mike Bahr is right, this whole issue might be some fun to kick around a little. I've had fun with it thus far and read Mike's message with great interest.
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Rush: Test For Echo 2. Sublime: Badfish 3. Dar Williams: The Honesty Room 4. Pink Floyd: Dark Side Of The Moon 5. White Lion: Pride
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 14:24:42 -0600 From: Scott Kriefall <skriefal@prairie.lakes.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: HELP LISTPROC Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961108202442.008f3c54@prairie.lakes.com>
---------------------------------- Scott Kriefall skriefal@prairie.lakes.com scottk@cwcinc.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 21:02:56 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: From :) Message-ID: <3283A000.500F@mailstorm.dot.gov>
>From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
> Man, I don't know what to expect now. There don't seem to be any > overwhelming agreements from the people who've seen the shows as to who > led the pack and whatnot.
Sounds like we're a good sample :)
>> "the mailing software is being a dick,"
> Yeah, but can you explain how two posts that I sent three > weeks ago wound up in one of yesterday's jams?
the mailiing software suffers from performance anxiety? :)
> From: Kain <kain@caribe.net>
> And I must say I prefer the original Rush songs over the ones in > Working Man. Not that these new ones are bad, I just prefer it the > other way don't know why.
Because there ain't nothing like the real thing. I guess I can understand (not to be read agree with) where Neil may be coming from, although he could have phrased it a little better. Hey, they did the songs first, it's their right to feel possesive about them. Their not asking you to like it or not.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 16:16:25 -0500 From: Dave Hatlee <buster@ee.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Vai Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961108211625.0069cbb4@ee.net>
I just got Steve Vai's new CD - FIRE GARDEN.
It's killer! If you liked Passion and Warfare, you'll dig this! There is a TON of music on here. Basically a full CD worth of just instrumental, AND a full CD worth of songs with Vocals. I was quite surprised at Steve's voice on this...he really does well believe it or not! You can here some Zappa influence in the vocal stuff, and at some points it seems like Passion&Warfare meets Flexable! There's a lot of material ranging from metal to mellow....I love it. It's the first thing I've really liked by him since P&W. Check it out!
DT in Poughkeepsie NY -
I *may* be traveling all the way from Columbus Ohio for this show Dec. 4th Any other jammers gonna be there? (silly question). I'll probably be staying at a hotel after the show, so maybe I can hook up with a few people while there. I've only been to one DT show, and I got kicked out during the 4th song for pissing in a dark ally next to the club (the bathroom was full) so they threw me out. Needless to say, if I can make this show, I WILL BE PUMPED!
buster
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:14:53 -0500 (EST) From: John McCabe <caber1@concentric.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: My apology to Dr. Mosh and the future of the trader list Message-ID: <199611082214.RAA06756@beasley.cris.com>
Well today I came home found 15 messages in my mail box(that's alot for me). They were either jams or something to do with my list. But first I want to publicly say that I was wrong in thinking that Dr Mosh was a bad trader. Sorry my fault. I know its not fair for me(someone who had nothing to do with the trade to write in and say "hey where's the vid"). And I want to apologize for getting *too* involved with the list. No seriously, its really my fault and I even made a rule in the beginning when I started the list, about a month ago, only to post once a month and make _sure_ that the person is not going to complete the trade. Well I just threw out those rules, and went head on. Dr. Mosh is still going to complete his trade with the other trader. He didn't cash the check "quickly" like I said. That's another rule I broke, only write a short sentence or two about the trader...hmm, I really should remember to follow these rules. :( I'm really sorry DrMosh I just jumped on you because you were the first "victim" I could find. He changed mail servers or something and I acted like a stupid idiot and just started pointing my finger. Sorry to everyone for that because it makes the list and especially me look foolish. I think DrMosh put it the best when he emailed me "Boy, don't get your panties in a bunch over nothing....". He is right I totall reacted, sorry. I think this list could be very useful if used correctly and in some kind of orderly fashion. I think I just showed the worst possible thing that this list can do. And that's give a bad name to a good trader. Sorry again DrMosh. But I'm still going to keep the list up. Because I was thinking about what I just did with the whole DrMosh thing. I have seen it somewhere before, on this every list! You know when Tim Lodge, James Arin, or Marcel Corgen(the guy who is making Capre Deim) every time they ship out a couple of CDs. People start saying that they haven't gotten their CDs. Well maybe in the future if someone takes on a major CD, or tape tree project. And something goes wrong, they coudl email me and I'll tell everyone. I know that the person could do this on their own. But it seems that these people(the ones making the CDs) tell everyone and a month later everyone forgets. And they starting saying that they didn't get their CDs. Well, this list could be more helpful in that way. And sorry about this again DrMosh and to anybody who read my other post. Really I want this list to grow into a helpful list, I didn't start off on the right foot. And I'll try to make it up.
John P.S. On a brighter note if you have MuchMusic tommorrow at 7 or 7:30 they're doing the second half of the Rush Spotlight.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 18:47:51 -0500 From: Kain <kain@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: My apology to Dr. Mosh and the future of the trader list Message-ID: <3283C6A7.A26@caribe.net>
John McCabe wrote: > John > P.S. On a brighter note if you have MuchMusic tommorrow at 7 or 7:30 they're > doing the second half of the Rush Spotlight. Really!?!?!? oh ho hoho shit. At last I get some stuff. Now I only have to figure out which hour will it be in PR's time since here in PR people are so dumb they haven't installed the hour-change thing at summer and all. So sometimes it's one hour difference, sometimes (depending on channel) it's two hours and the like. Anyway I'll be 2 hours before 7 and two hours after 7 watching MuchMusic. Just to be sure I don't miss it :) Kain -- |------------------------------------------------| |My newest incarnation.... | |http://www.activision.com/bloodomen/index.html | |The ultimate bloodfest... | |------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:15:57 -0400 (AST) From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YtseRumors Message-ID: <199611082315.TAA06503@mail.caribe.net>
>> But now onto some real news. The band have announced that a certain Mr. Prater >> will be the producer of the new album, and that the new album will indeed have >> a literary title (as I predicted). The album will be called 'The Tin Drum' >> (think about it). For those of you who don't know, the book was written by the >> brilliant German author Guenther Grass.
Damn..this happens to me when i skip jams.. um..is this a fact? any of the two (prater being the prod. or the records title) ??
We Can Learn From the past..but those days are gone.. We can hope for the future..but there may not be one... DREAM THEATER: A CHANGE OF SEASONS WOWOWOWWWWWW hoooo wowoW WOWWwwwwww hoooo -Devin Townsend Email: Calfaro@Caribe.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:26:36 -0800 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Ramses....The Ruler and The Condom Message-ID: <199611082326.PAA17020@main.cfmc.com>
So here I go again....apologies to Mr. Coverdale....
>From: jefffalk@bu.edu (Jeffrey Falk) > >>It took Joyce >>ten years to write "Ulysses", which is thought by many scholars, >>myself included, to be one of the most illuminating book >>ever written. > I'm aware of more than you seem to think, including the fact that >many scholars like it. For the same reason that I would never like R.E.M. >because the "experts" at _Rolling Stone_ laud them, I don't consider the >scholars' pronouncements to be immutable fact. > >>Did I hear someone say Ayn Raynd was a >>great writer? > After you see me correct your spelling (it's Rand), you'll hear me >say it: she's not only one of the greatest novelists in history, she's also >one of history's greatest philosophers. (Incidentally, _Atlas Shrugged_ >was named the second-most influential book of all time in a joint survey by >the Library of Congress and the Book of the Month Club; the survey's >results didn't include James Joyce in the top ten.)
Hmmm....this is actually an interesting assertion -- the value of "authority" in analyzing art. After all, many of our beloved progressive bands have been trashed endlessly by rock critics. I guess, more to the point, is the art of music subject to analysis in the same way literature is....or are we REALLY "dancing about architecture."
I think I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Falk on a couple of points here: One, that whatever scholarly study decides is valuable or not is a relative non-issue. Which isn't to demean scholarship....I, in fact, have derived a great deal of insight from scholarly work in the Social Sciences, in particular. But because, for example, Joan Wallech Scott...or even someone like Nietzsche, who became a legend while in the academy...says something is so does NOT make it so. What we are challenged by as thinkers is to distinguish from among the ideas that have been presented. I'm a fan of several diverse minds -- Alvin Toffler, Dick Hebdige, Paul Ehrlich, Robert Ornstein, Ernst Mayr. Even Ayn Rand, who's been run up and down and all around here lately.
Musically (since this IS a musical list), REM DOES do well. As so the Beatles, Stones, Replacements, and Nirvana. I like REM, The Beatles, and Nirvana quite a lot...the Stones a little less, and the 'Mats about as much as Type O Negative. Dream Theater, Rush, Pink Floyd, Yes, and Genesis, who've been slammed to no end by critics, comprise an even MORE impressive list, in my mind. So I don't give a shit of Lester Bangs didn't like "2112." It's still a great album.
The second (and much shorter) point is that I'm a fan of Rand. But her aesthetics leave a LOT to be desired. And she just missed the boat with writers like Joyce, who've made a major contribution. And I like "The Fountainhead" more than "Atlas Shrugged." "Atlas Shrugged" is clearer, I suppose, and really makes her philosophy lucid. But "The Fountainhead" is a more sophisticated read...and more accessible, I'd say.
And trying to bring this to a subject that seems a little more topical: "Learning to Live" seems to have a little bit of both elements (the analytical, objective look at the world and the dynamism needed to attack the problems in the world on an ongoing basis) to it, lyrically. My feeling is that, because of it's scope, it's always been a different sort of song, lyrically, than anything else in the DT cannon. There's an obvious reason for that, of course...I just was kicking it around as I was watching the Joyce vs. Rand discussion...thinking that this is actually a good demographic for precisely that discussion.
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Rush: Test For Echo 2. Sublime: Badfish 3. Iron Maiden: Killers 4. Yes: The Yes Album 5. Black Sabbath: Vol. 4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:43:34 -0600 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: the tin drum. hehehe. Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961108234334.006eeb30@mail.inlink.com>
> >But now onto some real news. The band have announced that a certain Mr. Prater >will be the producer of the new album, and that the new album will indeed have >a literary title (as I predicted). The album will be called 'The Tin Drum' >(think about it). For those of you who don't know, the book was written by the >brilliant German author Guenther Grass. >
dude thats not even funny! i cant believe even when ben said "I cant believe they got prater, he'll make it sound like the tin drum alright!" we still didnt figure it out :) luckily senses reached me, i was gonna be kicking some ass if they would've used this bland boring title. hehe, good work on the spoof... you had my ass fooled :) ~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:02:49 -0800 From: drkhoe@gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Message-ID: <199611090002.QAA19019@ gmsnet.com>
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% *$%&%#$* Global Micro Solutions #$#$#@@# *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$ #$@#$#@# http://www.gmsnet.com/progmetal @#$@##@$
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2005 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:58:55 EST