YTSEJAM Digest 2041
Today's Topics:
1) Dream Theater IRC is moving for a week.
by "Rudy van IJzendoorn" <rudy.van.ijzendoorn@tip.nl>
2) DT in Germany, Austria, and the Czech Rep.
by Scorpio <emdurso@MtHolyoke.EDU>
3) REAL IMPORTANT INFORMATION
by "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
4) Bush???
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
5) 7- strings
by "Jonathan Dery" <metropolis@net1plus.com>
6) Re: Big Bro', wank on this
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
7) Re: Good Prog Groups?
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
8) a different poll thought
by "Glenn Pillsbury" <PILLSBUR@HUMnet.UCLA.EDU>
9) Living in Mbabane
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2039
by Jeff Hill <jwhill1@students.uiuc.edu>
11) Re: a different poll thought
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
12) dt's new cd / voices
by Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
13) temporary irc server change, please read
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
14) Big Brother!!!!!!!
by Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
15) Re: CD Europe (#*#*#)
by blane@nla.gov.au
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2038
by David Gamble <dgamble@cs.uop.edu>
17) Vai still on the 7-String
by tbaddley@airmail.net (Tom Baddley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:42:49 +0100
From: "Rudy van IJzendoorn" <rudy.van.ijzendoorn@tip.nl>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Dream Theater IRC is moving for a week.
Message-ID: <m0vQGs6-000DmGC@parijs.tip.nl>
Hey All,
Just wanted to inform you that in the time the dreamt.org server is down,
we all can chat on the #ytsejam channel on DALNET!!
Just connect to one of the many DalNet servers, and /join #ytsejam. This
will only be a temporary solution for all IRC addicts :-) .. Hope to see
you all there :-)
Rudy van IJzendoorn , aka U-dAZ
____________________________________________
\_______\_ | _/\__ \__ / \______ /_______/
\______/ | \__|_ | \ / \____ / /______/
\____/ | \___/ | / _|_ \__ / /_____/
\__\ | /__| | / \ / /____/
\_\_____/________/\___|___/_______/
____________________________________________
DrEaM tHeAtEr: OnLine <=> UnDeR a CyBeR mOoN
[http://www.prognosis.com/dream]
->judas@dreamt.org/judas@worldaccess.nl<-
->rudy.van.ijzendoorn@tip.nl<-
/v1.0///////////////////////////////AriAL sIG/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:02:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Scorpio <emdurso@MtHolyoke.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT in Germany, Austria, and the Czech Rep.
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.961120125839.5597A-100000@axis.mtholyoke.edu>
Hello Jammers-
I will be going to Germany, Austria and the Czech Rep. in January and i
was wondering if you could help me compile a list of DT stuff i should
look for. I have the 5 albums sold here in the US. Also, could anyone
tell me what stores would sell these cds? I will be in Berlin, Dresden,
Prague, Salzburg and Munich. Thanks.
-Em
-------------------------------------------------------------
"...too late to turn back now/ i'm running out of sound/
and i am changing, changing..."
-Smashing Pumpkins
-------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:01:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: voices@arastar.com
Subject: REAL IMPORTANT INFORMATION
Message-ID: <199611201901.OAA10285@wicked.stigmata.org>
Hey All ...
OK, I know it seems like I am sending one of these
very 12 hours or so, but I am trying to get alot of things
in order real quick to make something which could be very very
ugly run smoothly. So here is the deal, hopefully answering all
questions you have.
DREAMT.ORG ACCOUNTS
-------------------
These will be going down tonight somewhere around midnight.
If Internic co-operates, they should only be down for the time that
the system which I am moving is down. I will be switching the system
which does the hosting for the accounts until I get a stable setup
for my home machine. At the worst, the accounts could be down until
this weekend or longer if Internic really screws things up. Any
mail that is sent to these accounts once they go down, will be queued for 5
days, so as long as I have it all set up by Monday, you should get
all the mail that was sent to you once the server comes back up.
IRC.DREAMT.ORG
--------------
Basically as of tonight at about 12AM EST, the irc server will be down
until further notice. Again, if things go well, it could be back up
before tommorrow morning, if not, who knows.
ME / MY HOME MACHINE
--------------------
Basically, as of tonight until I get access from somewhere, my home
machine will also be down. If you need me in an emergency, mail me
at skadz@pencom.com. But please use this address for emergencies
only. I don't have time to sort through lots of email asking
questions while I am at work.
If you have any questions between now and tonight, mail me at
skadz@dreamt.org and I will try and get back to you before things
go down tonight.
Later!
Skadz
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:00:31 -0500 (EST)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Bush???
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9611201307.D1069-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
> From: Tim Caudill <symmetry@usaor.net>
> Subject: We've got Bush...
>
> Hey DT Nuts,
>
> Yeah, i just picked up the new Bush Cd today...hey, i kinda like these =
> guys, and anyway it was only 8 bucks. I came home, put it in the CD =
> player, and what do i hear in the first song? TIME CHANGES. =
> Howboutdat?!
Poor Tim! Someone defaced the "R" on the cover of his Rush CD!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster
cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:41:05 -0500
From: "Jonathan Dery" <metropolis@net1plus.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 7- strings
Message-ID: <32935ED1.1C86@net1plus.com>
I HOPE that JP is still using the seven string guitars. AWAKE
influenced me to buy mine (the best guitar ever designed IMO). If he
stopped using them it would just seem to me as if he were regressing.
Btw- I really liked the "Blue-burst" 7- string that he used
during last year's Christmas shows. I personally don't care for his
black and white one.
- Jon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:34:44 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Big Bro', wank on this
Message-ID: <199611202034.QAA09750@mail.caribe.net>
At 06:44 PM 11/19/96 -0800, you wrote:
> Black Ytse'copters are,
>at this moment, encircling his domicile.
oh man..this sounds soo cool...like a DT republic thing.. ytsecops
..ytsepayoffs.. ytsemayor..etc... ytsecopters circling the house of
alternative heads..hehe
We Can Learn From the past..but those days are gone..
We can hope for the future..but there may not be one...
< DREAM THEATER: A CHANGE OF SEASONS>
WOWOWOWWWWWW hoooo wowoW WOWWwwwwww hoooo -Devin Townsend
WoWoW WoWoW WoWoW - Mike Portnoy
Email: Calfaro@Caribe.net Calfaro@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:00:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Good Prog Groups?
Message-ID: <199611202100.RAA11146@mail.caribe.net>
At 07:29 AM 11/20/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Can any1 direct me to some good Prog Groups?
>I like the Styles of Shadow Gallery,ok,thanks
Lemur Voice,Altura,ClockWork...umm...other jammers can fill in the other ones..
>
>
>
> ^^^
> (o o)
> --------oOOO-- (_)---OOOo--------------------
> - roland.theysohn@darmstadt.netsurf.de--------
> -http://people.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~theysohn-
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
We Can Learn From the past..but those days are gone..
We can hope for the future..but there may not be one...
< DREAM THEATER: A CHANGE OF SEASONS>
WOWOWOWWWWWW hoooo wowoW WOWWwwwwww hoooo -Devin Townsend
WoWoW WoWoW WoWoW - Mike Portnoy
Email: Calfaro@Caribe.net Calfaro@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:36:34 PST
From: "Glenn Pillsbury" <PILLSBUR@HUMnet.UCLA.EDU>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: a different poll thought
Message-ID: <18281450C32@113hum2.humnet.ucla.edu>
Ytse-heads-
On a sort of different take on the whole best o' 96 poll, I would
like to suggest a different idea. I was wondering about the music
everyone has "discovered" or "re-discovered" this year. That doesn't
mean it had to be released in 1996, rather, which (say) five CDs have
really grabbed your attention this year, regardless of when they were
released. My choices:
1) Steve Vai "Fire Garden"
2) Steve Vai "Alien Love Secrets"
3) Judas Priest "Sin After Sin"
4) Faith No More "Angel Dust"
5) King Crimson (anything I suppose)
Curiously yours,
Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:37:11 -0800
From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Living in Mbabane
Message-ID: <199611202037.MAA15219@main.cfmc.com>
Here I am, a bassist by trade, arguing about the relative merits of guitar
players. As if any of 'em could hold a candle to Jeff Berlin...heh....
>From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
>>That's possible. You could certainly put together a credible argument that
>>what a thrash solo should sound like has been guided by a number of other
>>guys -- King and Hanneman, of course, Mustaine's various cohorts, Chuck
>>Schuldiner, Alex Skolnik -- but Hammett was really there, defining what was
>>going on.
>
> Actually, I disagree. I think Hammett was just RE-Playing stuff
>that had already been done. You name me a Hammett solo, I'll look it up in
>my friend's collection (I only have Justice, and I seriously dislike
>Metallica for one reason or another, but that's me) and then reference it to
>my collection and find something that came out before it that was a major
>influence. The reason I dislike Hammett so much is because he relies on non
>melodic tools (the way he uses tapping or the wah) too often (and both
>tapping and wah can be immensely helpful in creating a melody, so don't get
>me wrong) and when he DOES go melodic, there's nothing new there. I will
>NOT say he can't write a solo, because he's done some solo's that even stick
>in MY head, but for the most part, it's not something that impresses me.
I'll name three and then would like to see what you come up with -- "Fade to
Black," "Orion," and "Dyer's Eve." "Orion" is actually kind of a
gimme...parts of it sound a little like "Hotel California," of all things.
But it doesn't work quite the same way, so aside from the one lick that's a
real obvious connection, I think you'd have to jump higher than that bar.
Anyhow, Hammett's playing is really pretty manic -- what he's always been
good at is running in and out of melodic and energetic ideas. I think his
"non-melodicism" is precisely what has defined a great deal of the playing
that has since followed. I wouldn't say it's non-melodic, as such, but
specifically abrasive playing. Without that edge, thrash soloing wouldn't
be that far from traditional Euro Metal.
>>Metallica was, by far, the most important band in establishing a
>>thrash/speed scene
>
> TOTALLY have to disagree with you there. The trio (and arguably
>Slayer, though they've always been a bit heavier) Anthrax, Metallica and
>Megadeth were all of equal significance as far as I can see it. What's
>become of the bands now is meaningless... it's what they were that matters.
I don't really think so. Those four bands and Exodus certainly comprised
the front end of what's happened in thrash music (with Death and Testament
working fairly early in areas related). They were certainly closer in
influence several years ago (and, man, have the bands diverged since), but
Metallica was always at the forefront of what was going on....if you read
interviews with the bands or whatever, you'll see that bands always would
say something like "I think we and Metallica are the real innovators." I'm
not saying Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and Exodus didn't have an impact, what
I'm saying is that the book of Thrash Metal, as it's evolved, has been
defined in terms of what Metallica is done. It's one angle of the quote you
gave of me -- that Thrash has happened is more due to Metallica's input than
any other band. But, in part, what you say is right -- at the time,
Metallica wasn't in any way the ONLY band doing it.
>>At any rate, I'd say Hammett's early playing sounded a lot more like Uli
>>Roth than Blackmore (of course, Blackmore and Roth aren't THAT disparate, so
>>maybe the comment isn't such a powerful rejection of what you say).
>
> That depends on what era of Roth you're discussing. Hammett never
>sounded ANYTHING like Roth's solo work. Friedman and James Byrd sound
>closer to that style, but it's far more eastern than Hammett, and very
>technical. They also use the wah, but they do it lyrically, not the cheesy
>way Hammett does (pushing the wah up and down every 8th note tends to SUCK
>IMO). I'd say I hear more Blackmore in it, and maybe a bit of Satriani here
>and there.
I have a little bit of trouble saying Roth is VERY technical. He's
certainly technical, but so is Michael Schenker. Roth's style is a little
more exotic, but he's playing throughout his career was based on
arpeggiation. Satriani, yes, absolutely -- I'm convinced that a great deal
of Hammett's modal leanings ("Escape," for example) come from the time he
spent with Satriani. Blackmore, I can hear, but I can name 20 players that
I hear more prominently in Hammett's playing. Your comment about the wah is
pretty right-on, though, a lot of people tend to use the wah rhythmically in
sections where they'd be better off thinking melodically...Cliff Burton's
probably better with a wah than Hammett, though I don't think Kirk's real
egregious in misusing it or anything...
>>Certainly, there's some amped-up blues licks in there, but I always thought
>>of Hammett's playing on the first couple of records as being in the
>>Euro-Metal, arpeggiated, modal tradition, but bred with a higher level of
>>aggression.
>
> You need to listen to some more Euro Metal. Hammett uses maybe 2 or
>3 different arpeggios, so I wouldn't call that a major factor in his style
>either. This is one of those players I really tried to like... but...
Two or three? I dunno if you're just talking simple minor inversions or if
you're talking about using extensions or what. Two or three doesn't tell me
much, aside from the fact that I don't think I'd agree with any possible
interpretation.
>>>>Now, if
>>>>you listen to any band working anything like a thrash/speed style, you can
>>>>usually hear at least a little Hammett in it. "Fade To Black" is "Stairway
>>>>To Heaven" for the thrash generation, right down to the amazing solo.
>
> So even though I never really liked Hammett, you're saying that when
>I do thrash, and solo over it, I'm influenced by Hammett and not the players
>I've enjoyed and emulated as I've developed my style? This is a weird area
>you're headed for. :)
Well, I did hedge my bets a little with the word "usually," but I STILL
think there's gonna be similarity, in most cases. I mean, Alex Skolnick,
who was a tremendous player in Testament (probably still is, but I haven't
heard Exhibit A), didn't use many of the same note choices, but I still
would point at similarities in the way the solo interacts with the rhythm
guitar and bass. That blueprint belongs, primarily, to Metallica.
>>>I don't hear any Hammet in Marty Friedman's playing on Rust in Peace.
>
>>In other places, his
>>modal playing actually DOES remind me a little of Hammett, though their
>>sounds aren't particularly similar.
>
> How can you say that!?!?! Friedman's been doing Metal Shred guitar
>for longer than Hammett! I know it's hard, but sometimes it's good to try
>and listen to someone without comparing it to someone else. We all have to
>compare who we listen to with the first band of that style we enjoyed...
>it's a hard habit to break. I'm as guilty if not more guilty than everyone
>else. But I'd consider it to be a really strange if you don't hear Hammett
>and Friedman as two totally separate voices. Friedman is possibly the most
>unique guitarist from that era. You should be able to tell him playing a
>simple phrase apart from ANYONE else playing it, because he goes out of his
>way to make it foreign. This is not a knock at you or at Hammett. Just an
>observation.
Okay, we're gonna start evaluating Hammett in Exodus with Friedman in Hawaii
or something? "Kill 'Em All" certainly predates Mike Varney finding
Friedman, so I don't know where you're headed with that. Certainly prior to
playing in Megadeth and on his solo records, Friedman doesn't sound much
like Hammett, but in Megadeth, it does. Not a lot....I'm not saying he's
derivitive, I'm not saying Hammett influenced him or anything. I, in fact,
said their sounds aren't similar...but I DO find some similarity there.
Clapton and Beck are different voices...I wouldn't have any trouble
separating the two at all -- but they ARE similar in several ways. The fact
that both Hammett and Friedman are mining a thrash sound is evidence enough
that there's SOME similarity. What's in question is HOW similar they are
and what context you couch that in. If you're just talking about being able
to tell the difference between players, then certainly Hammett and Friedman
are different players. If you're talking about the whole canon of Western
music, then obviously they're very similar players. My initial arguement
was that Hammett helped establish many of the conventions of thrash/speed
metal soloing. My argument, specific to Friedman, is that he observes some,
not all, of those conventions.
Adam D. Barnhart
adamb@cfmc.com
ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's: (The hour draws near!)
============================================
1. Rush: Test For Echo
2. Rush: All The World's A Stage
3. Rush: Exit...Stage Left
4. Rush: A Show Of Hands
5. Rush: Closer To Our Heart
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:18:23 -0600
From: Jeff Hill <jwhill1@students.uiuc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2039
Message-ID: <v03007800aeb925ccf9e0@[128.174.162.26]>
Bloody balls next semester will kick balls. Every other Monday, I only
have one class, and it's CS 125 which is learning programming theory.
EVERY Friday, I only have one class, Chemistry Quiz section at 4:00!!!
Hell positive.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:58:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: a different poll thought
Message-ID: <199611202158.RAA14729@mail.caribe.net>
At 12:41 PM 11/20/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Ytse-heads-
>On a sort of different take on the whole best o' 96 poll, I would
>like to suggest a different idea. I was wondering about the music
>everyone has "discovered" or "re-discovered" this year. That doesn't
>mean it had to be released in 1996, rather, which (say) five CDs have
>really grabbed your attention this year, regardless of when they were
>released. My choices:
>
>1) Steve Vai "Fire Garden"
>2) Steve Vai "Alien Love Secrets"
>3) Judas Priest "Sin After Sin"
>4) Faith No More "Angel Dust"
>5) King Crimson (anything I suppose)
>
>Curiously yours,
>Glenn
>
#1: Working Man
2: Lemur Voice
3: ClockWork (demo tapes but they rule)
4: Shadow Gallery
5: Enchant
We Can Learn From the past..but those days are gone..
We can hope for the future..but there may not be one...
< DREAM THEATER: A CHANGE OF SEASONS>
WOWOWOWWWWWW hoooo wowoW WOWWwwwwww hoooo -Devin Townsend
WoWoW WoWoW WoWoW - Mike Portnoy
Email: Calfaro@Caribe.net Calfaro@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:33:16 -0800
From: Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: dt's new cd / voices
Message-ID: <3293953C.363E@stlnet.com>
First of all does anyone know anything about how dts new cd will sound? I hope it is
cross between there first 2 . I like a lot of things about I&W, the way the instrumental
parts on metrolpois , TTT and learning to live are great . On Aawke i like the seven
string PM like on caught in a web , Lie and The Mirror , and most of all I like James's
wider range of vocals in awake.
also whats the adress for voices mailing list??????
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:44:33 -0600
From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: temporary irc server change, please read
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961120214433.006fe304@mail.inlink.com>
as we were just on dalnet we realized that a million servers, a million
channels, a million users really really SUCKS. so, the temporary location
of the #ytsejam is now moving to what we think the best possible place,
irc.rocknet.com port 6667. its an extremely small server, in fact, theres
only like ONE user on besides jammers right now! see you guys there!
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:51:40 -0800
From: Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Big Brother!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <3293998B.2AB9@stlnet.com>
Show us sum sign your spying on us!!!!!!!! i want to be spyed on by dt,i think that
would be so cool if we were acutally being watched by dt .I think it may be true(i hope
it is cause ive had nothing to say but good about them since ive been on and so has
most everyone else), but it may not be. When did he say this thing about big bro
wathcing this? was he talking directly about ytsejam??????????If any band whould be
listening in on there mailing list i think it would be DT they are kind to there fans ,
mike going places to talk to fans and sign autographs and giving an autograph pic if you
join the fan club (i cant wait till mine comes).
Happe,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:26:22 +0000
From: blane@nla.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: CD Europe (#*#*#)
Message-ID: <199611202229.JAA22443@email.nla.gov.au>
Greetings ye of the JaM,
Rick Audet stated:
> Those mother #*ckers have me really steamed right now.
[snip]
> CD Europe can suck my mother-f*@#ing .d%^k......
>
> Just my own experience with them. I bet some of their other customers are happy.
Nope, they are a bunch of mother-f*@#s. I placed an order about 2
months ago and have exactly they same problem as Rick. I also found
that they don't answer email unless its a threat, and they are the
most unhelpful people I have every had the misfortune to deal with.
*sigh* well my chest is a bit lighter now.
Brett
---------------------------------------------------------------
Brett Lane blane@nla.gov.au
CSC Australia Phone: +61 6 262 1659
A Unit of Computer Sciences Corporation FAX: +61 6 273 2116
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:05:55 -0800 (PST)
From: David Gamble <dgamble@cs.uop.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2038
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.961120150126.27065A-100000@uop.cs.uop.edu>
There has been some talk about Van Halen in this here YtseJam. I've
analyzed Van Halen music since I started playing guitar in 1991. A lot.
I have noticed that the music is becoming stikingly more structured and
BIG sounding. Especially Me Wise Magic (intro in 9/8, funky key changes,
etc.) and Can't Get This Stuff...(polyrhythms at the end,
does-anyone-know-what-Ed's playing in kinda thing). I would not be
shocked IF Van Halen becomes Commercial Hard Rocks answer to Dream
Theater. The only thing missing would be Eddie ripping chromatic
passages at 216 bpm (Petrucci DID fake blowing that by the way---he
nails it at his clinics!!!)
Check out Sanguine Surroundings--------send email to dgamble@uop.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:17:03 GMT
From: tbaddley@airmail.net (Tom Baddley)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Vai still on the 7-String
Message-ID: <32939169.1317972@mail.airmail.net>
Vai switched to his white 6-string Gem for Fire Garden. The only
other guitar that he used was a white Strat on warm regards.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2041
**************************
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