YTSEJAM Digest 2058
Today's Topics:
1) Johnny Petruckie
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
2) If you post yours, I'll post mine
by buster@ee.net
3) Portnoy is Here!!!!
by Dan <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
4) Pantera
by Dan <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
5) The Extreme Truth-repost
by Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
6)
by
7) Re: cobain
by shields@onr.com (Jim Shields)
8) The Sheriff Of Huddersville...
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
9) New Music I've been listening to.
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
10) Grahamina
by Jennifer <jenibear@gvn.net>
11) JP
by "LRW" <sir@micron.net>
12) I Love Country Music. Really.
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
13) Dragonlance etc.
by "Student Account (95)" <csst9525@cs.uoi.gr>
14) new DT album
by Eric Gillingham <egilling@stdntpop.lmu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:09:38 +0000
From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Johnny Petruckie
Message-ID: <199611270118.SAA09560@cyberhighway.net>
> Well, The people he listed (Steve Vai and Richie Kotzen) are typically known
> for their Technical Proficiency. Their soul doesn't exist in only the slow
> playing. JP is not soul-less... he just sometimes comes out a bit dry. If
> you own the JP instructional video, watch the "live" out takes in between
> segments.... that's easily the most soulful guitar playing I've ever seen
> him do. I wish DT would release that stuff.
No kiddin'. I know there are parts of it that make me tire of it and
anticipate "A Fortune in Lies" more than others on LiT, but Moon
Bubbles shows alot of John's stuff, too. The outtakes though on his
video jam. I wish the guy would pull a Marty Friedman and make his
own albums on a side project. I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would care to distribute a VHS copy
of the PPV show in Japan to me. Mail me privately and we can work
out a trade. :)
Another (plug, plug) thing. Check out Andrew Miller's homepage at
http://www.avalon.net/~subtlerage if you like new age stuff. It
rokz! (My cheque's in the mail, rage!)
Also... I'm pretending that Mike's not here. (Hi, Mike!)
Nuff for today! Be kewl and eat yogurt and stuff...
Disclaimer: All entries posted in this text are copyrighted by
KorgX3 and are subject to applicable laws. Unauthorized
reproduction of any entry contained within without written consent of
the owner is strictly forbidden. "Rokz nadz, kikz butz, and hott
chikz" are trademarks owned by KorgX3. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:40:54 -0500
From: buster@ee.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: raitz@guvatrak.ee
Subject: If you post yours, I'll post mine
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961127014054.0069de40@ee.net>
Below is simply a response to your post. Not a flame, not an arguement,
but still having just as much right to be posted as your opinions. I just
thought I'd send a copy to you directly, because I like to know
someone is responding to my posts publicly as well.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoting someone from a recent Jam:
> Petrucci
>plays where he belongs to, and what he's good at, but that's no good
>enough reason to praise him constantly. *Or* anyone else in the band
>either. I know it's an old statement, but they're really just guys
>making good music, and who cares who's faster (yuck... go find a job
>as a typist, if pure speed is the only thing that matters) or more
>"passionate" than the other.
>It's getting too harsh already. Damn, I didn't want it to. It only
>seems to me that the arguments here tend to sound like "he rules",
>"he kicks ass", "he rules and kicks ass", "he's so fast", "he's a
>true genius", "no one else is better than him"... Just like Nirvana
>fans explaining why Kurt Cobain was the best guitarist in the world.
>Flame via email, nobody wants to see it on the jam anyway.
First of all this is not a flame. Second of all, if you think no one wants
to see my opinion or rebuttle to these statements on the jam, what makes you
think that they all want to see yours?
I want to address two of your comments here, not in the form of flame, but
in the form of a common, polite, and intelligent (hopefully) other point of
view:
You say say JP is good at what he does, but you're not impressed enough to
think we have reason to constantly praise him. This makes me first want to
ask: do you play guitar? IMO the reason that we praise JP constantly is not
just because he's "fast" or "kicks ass". He is a well rounded and CONTROLLED
guitarist and writer. He incorporates many facets and techniques of the guitar
that many players lack in. He deserves constant praise for his *discipline* as
a player and a writer, as well as his drive and desire to continue to perfect
what he does. JP didn't just get a song on the radio and say "ok, I'll kick
back now"
He is constantly pushing the envelope of his playing to utilize all of the
knowledge he's gained over the years, and to further express the styles of
his influences. With so few musicians out there that *really* focus on the
music like JP, I think we have a DAMN GOOD reason to praise him, and the
rest of DT constantly.
Secondly, you compared us all to Nirvana fans in the way we "argue" about
the various points of playing skills and style. While I will agree that some
of the "discussions" on this list get a little carried away, do you think even
for a second that Nirvana fans care this much about the content of skill and
musicianship in the songs?? I seriously doubt it. In fact, I can't even believe
that someone would compare DT fans to Nirvana fans in the first place. The
reason
we're here is because we appreciate talent, and the reason the list is here is
because Dream Theater *is* talent. The day that fans like us stop caring and
debating the issues related to this talent is the day that bands like DT wont
matter anymore and bands like Nirvana will take their place. What we're doing
here may seem like senseless arguing at times, but it's keeping the real music
alive and giving the real musicians out there something to strive for.
If we didn't care, do you think they would? They certainly don't get any
incentive to keep playing from the record companies....
Just another point of view,
buster
http://users1.ee.net/buster
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:47:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Portnoy is Here!!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961126204657.11311A-100000@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
Portnoy is the man!!! And maybe I know who he is!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:53:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Pantera
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961126205116.11311B-100000@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
I personally think that Pantera sucks!!! Comparing themn to DT is like
comparing apples to oranges. They lack the talent that DT posseses. I
am just so sick and tired of hearing that Pantera is way better then DT
because they are not!!!
Later,
Dan
GO COWBOYS!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:19:46 -0600
From: Randall Braun <RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: The Extreme Truth-repost
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=GE%l=AMERIDATA/ADNC/0009BD53@msb01ncadctmsge.ameridata.com>
************************************************************
Ken McWatters kmcwatters@hotmail.com
Quote of the day/week/month:
"You analyze the earth and the sky/I ask you why you can't
analyze the signs of the present time"
-Extreme, "Rise 'n Shine", III Sides to Every Story
------------------------------
Dats all ffolkes. I dink zum ov mi post gots chopped 2 da Digest, dough itz went out 2 doze gets itz 1 by 1
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:50:02 -0600
From: shields@onr.com (Jim Shields)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: cobain
Message-ID: <v01530500aec1597d89a8@[206.104.9.34]>
I think that what made cobain any good was that he could write
catchy pop songs. Most of his songs has some kind of hook, either in the
guitar or vocals, that someone could humn to themselves. I liked nevermind
(still probably would if I didn't hear most of it each day on the radio for
so long) for that main reason. He wrote some pretty cool stuff. Sure, I
could play it better than him after only 6 months on the guitar, and sure,
he can't sing worth anything, but the emotions are still there, and so is
the basic poppiness to it all.
Granted, he killed all that 80's metal stuff, but I kinda think it
was getting tired, with a few exceptions (Extreme comes to mind). It's
good for there to be radical swings in the music industry like that. If it
didn't happen, then music would never PROGRESS.
Now I'm tired of all the mainstream 'alternacrap' that gets
airplay. I'm tired of hearing Bush get so much airplay for putting out
crap like 'swallowed.' I actually like their old stuff now because that
song is so bad. I'm just glad I have a brother incollege to introduce me
to bands like the Dave Matthews Band, Rusted Root, The Grapes,
Supplication, Jupiter Coyote, and lotsa others (most of them are Allman
influenced southern rock/ethnic-like bands).
I'm looking forward to a new musical revolution, and I hope to see you
folks there!
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:47:17 -0800
From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The Sheriff Of Huddersville...
Message-ID: <199611262347.PAA14460@main.cfmc.com>
>From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
>
>One die-hard Dream Theater fan told me that he likes everything about
>the band except for Petrucci, 'cause "I know he's great, but he
>sounds ordinary".
Hmmm...ordinary would indicate to me that he sounds like everyone else. Or
some subsantive subset of guitarists. I don't think that's the case. I
think his influences are relatively easy to hear -- I don't think that makes
him derivitive.
>Flame away, but he really doesn't impress me as much as John Myung
>(for instance). For me, he doesn't have the "flashiness" that Vai
>has, or Richie Kotzen.
Well, I'm a bassist. Myung scares the hell out of me. As a total player, I
like him more than Vai...his ensemble playing is better and his style's a
little more up my alley than Vai's. Kotzen is a great player, relatively
unheralded and quite soulful...I still don't like him as much as Petrucci.
>I'm not insisting I'm any better though. I do pretend playing guitar
>and I am the first to admit I'm lightyears behind everybody. Petrucci
>plays where he belongs to, and what he's good at, but that's no good
>enough reason to praise him constantly. *Or* anyone else in the band
>either. I know it's an old statement, but they're really just guys
>making good music, and who cares who's faster (yuck... go find a job
>as a typist, if pure speed is the only thing that matters) or more
>"passionate" than the other.
It isn't Petrucci's facility that makes him great, otherwise we're conceding
ultimate greatness to Impelliteri and Davidson, who aren't even in Petrucci
and Myung's zip code as players. It's the ability to communicate....their
facility gives them a greater ability to communicate.
>It's getting too harsh already. Damn, I didn't want it to. It only
>seems to me that the arguments here tend to sound like "he rules",
>"he kicks ass", "he rules and kicks ass", "he's so fast", "he's a
>true genius", "no one else is better than him"... Just like Nirvana
>fans explaining why Kurt Cobain was the best guitarist in the world.
No, I understand your point and think it's possibly valid, but I disagree.
And I don't think I have to resort to the guys "kicking ass" to explain why.
>From: "Glenn Pillsbury" <PILLSBUR@HUMnet.UCLA.EDU>
>Second, Maiden as prog? hmmm. Have to say pro(g)ably not. I just
>don't hear the same overall effect of "progness" that I hear with DT,
>et al. In fact, I pro(g)ably (ok, I know, enough...) turn to Maiden
>when I want to hear great metal that _isn't_ prog.
I can see the argument, but I think Maiden has some clear "Prog" leanings.
I don't think they're as progressive as Yes or IQ or Dream Theater, but I'd
say they have a lot of the elements in there. I don't think I'd call them
non-prog and I think they get tagged as such fairly regularly.
>From: svjohnson@amoco.com
> I thought that Phil only played on (maybe) one disc when Pantera was
> glam (a la "Diamond Darrell" v. "Dimebag"). From what I understand,
> he was the biggest influence on the band getting its present hardness,
> that he wasn't as into the vibe the band had. Anyone care to confirm
> this? What was the name of Pantera's former lead singer? I haven't
> gotten a Mouth4War in a while or else I'd research myself.
Yeah, Phil wasn't in there from the beginning and I understand he DID have
some impact on the band's heaviness. It's always a tough position when you
run into musicians worth a damn that don't quite play what you're
into....it's like Muzz Skillings leaving Living Colour or most of the
history of Yes. Yeah, what's going on is cool, but there are times when
it's not quite RIGHT. Anyhow, the point is Panera was FAR more egregious in
their appeal to commerciality, and now Phil's calling something he thinks is
a spade a spade (which isn't really so bad....just ironic).
>From: rwarren@memphisonline.com
>
>I do not intend to slam you but I may come across that way. I apologize in
>advance. This just hits a nerve that has been stomped on for years.
>Historically, soul in guitar playing has been identified with slow playing.
> I have always maintained that the speed of notes or technical proficiency
>has nothing to do with soul. JP is a great example. Another great example
>is Tony MacAlpine.
Yeah! Absolutely. MacAlpine is awesome...I'm always impressed by him, and
"Maximum Security" is a classic record. It's a shame he hasn't been more
widely recognized....
Adam D. Barnhart
adamb@cfmc.com
ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's:
=====================
1. Rush: Test For Echo
2. Metallica: Kill 'Em All
3. Hurricane: Over The Edge (Yeah.....I know....)
4. Beethoven: Symphonies No. 4 and No. 5 (Leindorf)
5. Cynic: Focus
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:26:26 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New Music I've been listening to.
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961127032626.006eb36c@enteract.com>
Hey Ytsefolx.
Hopefully Bafu has learned something from this most recent snafu...
if it's only that he feels even more superior to the average human,
hopefully the debate is over. I thought I'd introduce a new thread on
recent bands I've been digging... maybe some people have some new
suggestions for listening pleasure.
I begin with Nevermore, "In Memory", because it's playing right now. This
band reminds me of War of Words era Fight with a sort of weird singer. He's
listenable.... but he's got this raw sound and a lot of technique... sounds
like he practices, but gargles with Crystal Drano. The music is heavy and
powerful. They are very very tight. The guitar players, while ripping it
up, lack much personality. I heard a DIRECT CACOPHONY rip off on track 2
(Matricide) but if you can't deal with Cacophony's vocalist, you might as
well hear the lick... it's cool. They remind me of a mixture of James
Murphy, Skolnick, and Dumbass Darrel when he could still count past 4. I
recommend this CD pretty highly. It's is really catchy, and if you haven't
heard any good new power metal in a long time this will refresh you.
Next is Edwin Dare. I have known Jeff Kollman's guitar playing for a long
time. He's great. Sounds like a mix of Petrucci, Yngwie, and Michael
Wilton. This cd, "Can't Break Me" is decent, but the lyrics are lacking at
times. The sound struggles at time to avoid ripping off Queensryche, but
the playing on this album really brings it up a few notches. Jeff is a
MONSTER! The rest of the band is decent, if a bit unimpressive. It made an
impact on me enough to be interested in buying anything else they've done.
Jeff's solo album was a bit of a disappointment.... too many songs with no
direction... tons of chops and little substance. He's definitely got his
act together, but I didn't dig the solo album. I recommend this album since
it's a U.S. release and pretty darn interesting.
Quiet Room: "Promo 95'" (not an album title.... but that's what it's listed
as). Wow. We have a winner here. The vocalist could pass for Ray Alder
ANY DAY. The only times he doesn't sound like Perfect Symmetry era FW are
the times that he sounds like Warning era QR. What a voice! The
songwriting is solid. The bad isn't totally tight.... sounds a little
rushed in the studio to me. The guitarists can both play, one sounding like
Paul Masvidal of Cynic and the other sounding sort of like Frank Aresti. My
only gripe is that it could be a bit tighter, but if this is a demo, this
band is going to kick some serious ass. HIGHLY HIGHLY Recommended.
Black Jester "Welcome to the Moonlight Circus".... good guitars and keys....
decent bass and drums.... the vocalist is awful IMO. I recommend listening
to it for the virtuosity of the guitar and keys.... and for the chance to
make your own mind up. I don't get over vocals I don't like easily. The
lyrics are really cool, and the melodies are good. Anyone that likes Yngwie
and MacAlpine style keyboards will dig this for those instruments alone.
Nightingale "The Breathing Shadow"..... all I can say is why can't all the
songs be as fucking cool as the first one on this album? That kicked my
ass.... and then the following songs introduced a bad drum machine and sort
of Danzig like vocals. This is something that many of you can get into... I
can tell it has a certain appeal to it.... and great guitars by Dan Swano...
but it's not for me.
Just to reinforce my previous statements (in earlier jams) Angra is far
beyond any description a jammer has given thus far. This band is just epic.
My GF put it well when she said "these songs are just really really catchy"
I'd say this stuff (Holy Land) is addictive. It didn't get me on the first
listen (Some of the songs did... not all of them) but by the second time
through I couldn't get this out of my head. More so than DT.... it has that
depth, but many more hooks. I'd say I like them just as much as DT. They
both have a great sound, and an unparalleled depth.
That's all for now. I'll do this again soon if no one complains about this
post. I've bought around 20-30 cds in the last 2-3 months. Lots of cool
stuff to buy still too.
Be well.
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 21:34:36 -0000
From: Jennifer <jenibear@gvn.net>
To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Grahamina
Message-ID: <199611270534.VAA19245@pawn.ax.com>
Graham wrote the following in Ytsejam #2053:
>I am a girl, and I like Dream Theater.
Oh, another of those 8-year-olds that Dave must have been talking about.
;)
>I have even signed Kevin Moore's breast.
Shouldn't that be the other way 'round, Graham? Or are you such a
celebrity that Kev would want your John Hancock? <g>
Jen
o.-.o For millions of years mankind lived just like animals.
((^)) Then something happened which unleashed the power of our
O) _ (O imagination...we learned to talk. (Steven Hawking)
O/ \O
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:34:06 -0700
From: "LRW" <sir@micron.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: JP
Message-ID: <199611270536.WAA18934@snowden.micron.net>
Hey everyone its woot. (woops wrong person)
OK I'll come out of hiding for a second here. Did anyone miss me? didn't
think so.
> If
>you own the JP instructional video, watch the "live" out takes in between
>segments.... that's easily the most soulful guitar playing I've ever seen
>him do. I wish DT would release that stuff.
Yes!!! does anybody know where this is from? I love that stuff. I would
pay and/or trade tons of stuff to get a boot of the whole song/jam/piece.
Some of the stuff on the 7:12 solo after TLF on LiT is pretty bluesy.
Maybe it's just cause he finger picks it. It sounds bluesy to me. On
with the Bafu Bashing.
Craig Wuthrich
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: I Love Country Music. Really.
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.961126222558.41626E-100000@homer22.u.washington.edu>
Well. I found 'em, folks. Flamethrowers up my ass and all, I found 'em.
All ye who wondered aloud where all the lurking female 'jammers were, the
answer lies in carefully following the hilts embedded in my back. Just
start with hands attached to them and work your way up the arms until
you're eye to eye with the ferocity in all of its grandeur. Something
about the flood of loving replies I received about that post reminds me of
a line from that car-battery movie, "Die Hard":
"You ask for a miracle, I give you the F.B.I."
--Hans Gruber
His tone and meaning describe this situation to a tee.
---- > From: greg@aix.can.ibm.com (Greg "Big Brother" Lee) > Subject: Re: Bafu and Country Music.People have been known to kill themselves while listening to country music, you say? Does that mean they feel more when they listen to country than anything else? Does that mean country music is naturally depressing? Does that mean fragile people choose country music over everything else? What does it mean?
> Of course I make a sweeping generalization in my characterization of > the typical country fan, but -- what the hell...country sucks and its > fans are mindless simpletons!
Brilliant ventriloquism, Greg. You say something, I get quoted as saying it. ;)
---- > From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2053
Boxers look for openings. Pitbulls have a tendency to clamp down when they bite. Both can be quite pugnacious.
> I'd prefer to invite you to the debate podium.
Somewhat like Q, I feel that "You'd LIKE me to connect the dots for you... A to B to C. But that would be too EASY..."
> > Analytical : Empathetic :: Progressive Metal : Country > > If I were a woman I'd cut your peepee off for that.
Uh, yeah. If I were a woman I'd cut your peepee off for saying that the purpose of umbrellas is to shield people from rain. You quoted the wrong part of my post for your statement to make any sense.
---- > From: nicole mercedes gerace <lunitaria@worldnet.att.net> > Subject: bafu and country music
Now we are brought full circle.
> do you really dislike me, or are you playing devil's advocate?
Out of the fog leaps a lone grasshopper to snatch the pebble from my hand.
> we are a group of mostly teenagers, how old are you, bafu? perhaps > this can clear up some issues.
I'm 43. That's why I hate women.
> i am also curious as to whether or not you think that because you are > male, you appreciate DT's music more thasn i do, as an "empathetic" > woman? i have heard some bizarre sexist comments in my life, but that > one is ridiculous.
Ridiculous? You couldn't be further from the lie.
Bafu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:45:27 +0200 From: "Student Account (95)" <csst9525@cs.uoi.gr> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Dragonlance etc. Message-ID: <329BF196.4FA2@cs.uoi.gr>
> Just wanted y'all to know that I'm a girl and I love DT... And Anime, and > Dragonlance. So there are a few of us with exceptionally good taste. :)
Aye ,there are!! To tell the truth i didnt expect to find Dragonlance funs here but i am as pleased as surprised.Say,Tiffany,are you a Raistlin worshipper?:)
> I scraped and I scrubbed with displeasure, > and thought with chagrin as I mopped, > that I'd never again stuff a turkey with popcorn that hadn't been > popped.
WOW!!Hahahaha!!:))
> This kinda sucks (this is not a flame) ,if indeed Mike or anyone in the > band is reading the jam...it sucks that we know so..because people are gonna > start doing stuff like that (i repeat..not a flame) like asking stuff to > them indirectly thru the jam.I dont know if he did it on purpose as a joke > or something..its just that if ppl know that Mike or whoever is reading jams > then ppl will start saying stuff just so mike can read it ..or whatever..
You do have a point there but i think that 'jammers have more wisdom than this...well at least i hope they do!
Paschalis-Elessar
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:14:05 -0800 From: Eric Gillingham <egilling@stdntpop.lmu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: new DT album Message-ID: <08140523164867@stdntpop.lmu.edu>
when exactly is the new DT album coming out? i've heard so many stories on that, but none of them seem true...somebody must know...i'm a die hard fan who's about to purchase "Live At the Marquis" and have all other previous DT albums including "When Dream and Day Unite"////which isn't much an accomplishment to many ytsejammers i know, but for me at the time, it was...if somebody could please tell me, or at least give me a rough estimate, based on a reliable source of course....i would much appreciate it....thank you in advance..... eric....egilling@stdntpop.lmu.edu
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2058 **************************
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