YTSEJAM Digest 2061
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Bafu Loves Country Music. Really.
by greg@aix.can.ibm.com (Greg "Big Brother" Lee)
2) cobain
by Eric Hansen <ehansen@apu.edu>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2059
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2060
by babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
5) Re: JP & Soul/oohs and ahhs/fresh fruit/Bafu: his arms wide open
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
6) Bafu
by Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
7) Re: Iron Maiden
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
8) Re: JP
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2059
by Stan Tyszka <sstys@earthlink.net>
10) Re: Finally US dates for TMB!!!
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
11) FATES WARNING fans, I need your help! (NDTC)
by Bigman <martinah@csd.uwm.edu>
12) Is That A Doughnut In Your Pocket...
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
13) fates news!!
by Vencer1@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:19:20 -0500
From: greg@aix.can.ibm.com (Greg "Big Brother" Lee)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Bafu Loves Country Music. Really.
Message-ID: <9611271719.AA103217@hal.toraix.can.ibm.com>
Bafu doth wrote:
"People have been known to kill themselves while listening to country
music, you say? Does that mean they feel more when they listen to country
than anything else? Does that mean country music is naturally depressing?
Does that mean fragile people choose country music over everything else?
What does it mean? "
Well, let us suppose you are a down and out country fan. When your
favourite music is a constant reminder that your wife left you, your dog
died, and you cannot afford to get your pickup fixed, and let us further
suppose that you have a gun rack and a bottle of booze handy...BOOM!
DT saves lives!
Greg,
Toronto.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:32:33 -0800
From: Eric Hansen <ehansen@apu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: cobain
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19961127173233.00667f70@apu.edu>
You wanna know what made Cobain a genius? The fact that he could get
that crap to sell. I for one want to listen to music that has intelligable
lyrics and real musicians in the drivers seat. The genius is in making
formula pop rock that sells to kids who put themselves in their own misery
and blame it on society, when they in fact create society.
Flame away.
Eric H.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:47:00 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2059
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961127174700.00703d5c@enteract.com>
>Let's see...if I unsubscribe, then the digests would only be an easy,
>tolerable 70% slop.
No one's blaming you alone for the JamSlop. Since Portnoy is supposedly
watching.... let's blame him for not giving us any new music! Actually,
he's been doing clinics everywhere so we can't even blame him. Soon we will
all be content in blabbing about what we like/dislike about the new DT album.
>Explain to me how the complexity of a music theory class is similar in
>intensity or form to the complexity of "Metropolis, Part 1."
That's not a difficult explaination. Metropolis when slowed down is
actually not an immensly difficult piece. Playing it up to speed requires a
great deal of dexterity, but it's really quite readily digestable. There
are many more complex pieces of music out there. Much of the work Maddy's
theory class put her through tookk more effort than it would have taken for
her to learn Metropolis. Up to speed... I don't know because I can't ge her
to practice enough, but I think what she's getting at is that she had to
analyze music 100% of the time in that class... very unfemale, by your
qualification. I understand you were making an attempt at humor with that
post, but you started something, and it won't just end on its own. Besides,
if this is all some big joke to you why are you defending it so heavily?
>> On the other hand, perhaps I have some chromosomal abnormality which
>> leaves me more male than female.
>I'm male because of this abnormality. Janet
>Jackson is female because of the same abnormality. Some people don't have
>this abnormality. They are called hermaphrodites. Are you a hermaphrodite?
Abnormality = a deviation from the normal. Having a gender is not an
abnormality. Nor is this worth going into detail about.
>Violence ought to be performed, not described. Intense description fills
>the mind with impulse, which in turn leads to action. Intense performance
>leads to exhaustion, and thus, inaction. Your storytelling perpetuates the
>needless cycle of pain and misery.
Get the fuck out of here. Heheheh this is ridiculous. (Yes I know it's
meant to be, but damn was that a dumb thing to say!)
>Bet you wish I was right there in the room with you, huh?
I bet you're wrong.
>>> I disbelieve that country music could ever move me to violent, abusive
>>> activity.
>>
>> Oh, and country music usually DOES move me to violent, abusive
>> activity. Usually against the person who plays it...
>
>I guess you're right. I'm not familiar with my own preferences after all.
Read what she said, though dude. She didn't claim to know anything about
how you act or feel. She just said she acts differently (Thank God.... we
do not need two Bafus)
>Boxers look for openings. Pitbulls have a tendency to clamp down when they
>bite. Both can be quite pugnacious.
I resemble that remark!
>> I'd prefer to invite you to the debate podium.
>
>Somewhat like Q, I feel that "You'd LIKE me to connect the dots for you...
>A to B to C. But that would be too EASY..."
There we have it... it comes out... Bafu's omnipotence strikes out with a
Star Trek like odor!
>Uh, yeah. If I were a woman I'd cut your peepee off for saying that the
>purpose of umbrellas is to shield people from rain. You quoted the wrong
>part of my post for your statement to make any sense.
No, in fact it made perfect sense, when read as part of my earlier
statement. I was saying that if you were to, for one reason or another,
tell me that I was more likely to listen to country music because of my
gender, I would be most offended.
But now on a serious note.... if this is all such a big joke to you, why do
you defend it? The reason people come down on you is because you're very
condescending, and it's irritating. Whether it's in good fun or not, that
pisses people off. Now of course you wouldn't be happy if everyone just
kissed your ass and agreed with you at all times; indeed we know you get
your jollies from pushing peoples' buttons... but some of us don't take
shit. Whether it's from our peers or from those we look up to.
I'm not asking you to act any differently.... I'm just explaining why I
believe some people don't just laugh it up and pat little old Bafu on the back.
Addios, Ytseland!
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:07:33 -0500 (EST)
From: babs@sgenva.cc.geneseo.edu (Barb Battaglia)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2060
Message-ID: <v01510100aec1e97d205f@[137.238.26.12]>
>> Alright. I just have to put in my two cents. Ok, I fully understand
>> what you are trying to convey Bafu, but with you're being a man you
>> couldn't articulate it very well.
>
>OUCH! :)
Hurts, don't it?
>
>Wait, there shouldn't be a smiley face there... I should be raging
>frothing steaming FURIOUS by now... Dammit, Babs, you didn't make me
>angry! You're inept at provoking me! For that I HATE YOU!!!
Laugh. Of course I was inept at making you angry. Didn't I say something
in my post that I wasn't going to go nuts? It wasn't my intention to anger
you. (WOULDN'T I HAVE BEEN JUST GREAT IN THE OJ TRIAL?)
>
>> I'm not going to go all nuts here, but I just want to make you men aware
>> that us women really do understand DT more than you guys know.
>
>You men? You guys? What's with these plurals?
Alright, I admit that perhaps I shouldn't have generalized (ATTENTION
EVERYONE, SEE A WOMAN KNOWS HOW TO ADMIT WHEN SHE'S WRONG).
I'm the only one who crossed the line, and referring to all of my
personalities at once won't get your point across any clearer.
Fine.
>> Men tend to underestimate women when it comes to music, it's how can I
>> put it? The law of the land so to speak.
>
>Whose land?
Alright let's all break into a sing along of "This land is your land, this
land is my land..."
>How's the first verse of Innocence Faded go again?
Oh sure, pick the one and only DT tune I CANNOT stand (somebody must have
tipped you off on that - alright who on this list was the leak?).
>> Grow some dope - plant a MAN!
>
>OUCH! :)
Hurts, don't it?
-BABS
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:18:45 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: JP & Soul/oohs and ahhs/fresh fruit/Bafu: his arms wide open
Message-ID: <329C8605.28CC@mailstorm.dot.gov>
> I must simply agree wholeheartedly (is that possible?)
On the "Jam", anything's possible :)
> that tiny 3 or 4 note transition to the upper octave was/is
> amazingly expressive
There are so many levels on which to listen to the music. The keyboards
at that same point work so well. There ain't a lot of notes nor are they
at 200 bpm but that's what makes them taste so sweet going down...
I think it was Chris Ptacek who aptly spoke about them playing off each
other. For me, that's a group or collective soul (don't go there, please
:) to be able to 'feel' where the music should go as it's emerging. I
can't really explain something so abstract, but I think you all know
what I'm talking about anyways :)
> From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
> its just that if ppl know that Mike or whoever is reading jams
> then ppl will start saying stuff just so mike can read it ..or whatever..
Amen.
I'm sure he'd appreciate it more if people just treated him/them like a
normal human being. I heard people mention that they all go running out
the back after the clinics just to get away from the jammaNOIDS. I
wonder why... RE-FUCKIN-LAX
> I personally think that Pantera sucks!!! Comparing themn to DT is like
> comparing apples to oranges.
More like comparing fresh fruit to moldy fruit :)
> From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
> Let's see...if I unsubscribe, then the digests would only be an easy,
> tolerable 70% slop.
hey, literal breath, speak for yourself :)
anyway, this is easily the eaiest part of the day for me!
*------------*------------------------*--------------*
| Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 |
*------------*------------------------*--------------*
"This man is depriving a village somewhere of an idiot."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:27:47 -0800
From: Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Bafu
Message-ID: <199611271827.KAA00196@ichips.intel.com>
Ya know, I remember thinking at the beginning of last summer, when
Bafu unsubscribed for summer break, how it would be a bummer that
no one who joined the list during summertime would know anything
about our ytsejam jester.
Silly me, I should've known that it wouldn't be long before he
made his name known to all once again. =)
-- Jim Beavens <jbeavens@ichips.intel.com> | If I had a witty remark that MD6 Design Engineer, Intel Corp, Hillsboro OR | would better the lives of my -=(UDIC)=- Subconscious Dragon -=(UDIC)=- | fellow mankind, do you really ** I don't speak for Intel ** | think I would put it HERE?------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:37:25 -0500 (EST) From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Iron Maiden Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.961127133034.1808B-100000@unix21.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Brian Hayden wrote:
> > I think the > > "intelligent" part of their sound comes from Mr. Dikinson. Did you all know > > he really did go to university? Majored in literature or something. > > This is partially true, but it also needs to be remembered that Steve Harris > wrote the majority of Maiden's material. Dickinson is more widely read in > literature, while Harris is more knowledgeable in religion and history. This is > why songs like "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" were written partly by Dickinson, > while stuff like "Number of the Beast" and "The Trooper" were done solely by > Harris. > > -Brian > Harris also seems more to watch more movies...check out the X-factor. Guess he didn't have time to do as much reading between the last 2 albums :)
I think Maiden is doing just fine without Bruce, personally. And while they're not really "progressive metal" I think they definitely are metal that's progressive a lot of the time...The Rime, Seventh Son, Infinite Dreams, Alexander the Great, Sign of the Cross, Afraid to Shoot Strangers...there are just a ton of songs that are long, complex, end somewhere other than they begin, have long, changing instrumental sections, etc.
I'm gonna have to check out Bruce's solo stuff one of these days. Anyone wanna recommend a good place to start for someone whose favourite Maiden Albums are Powerslave, 7th son, FotD, and the X-factor? Please reply via e-mail so as not to clutter the jam.
-max
Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:36:23 -0400 (AST) From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: JP Message-ID: <199611271936.PAA20907@mail.caribe.net>
>Some of the stuff on the 7:12 solo after TLF on LiT is pretty bluesy. >Maybe it's just cause he finger picks it. It sounds bluesy to me. On >with the Bafu Bashing. > >Craig Wuthrich > Isnt the finger picking stuff on Lit's Tlf more like a Jazz kinda thing..?
We Can Learn From the past..but those days are gone.. We can hope for the future..but there may not be one... < DREAM THEATER: A CHANGE OF SEASONS> WOWOWOWWWWWW hoooo wowoW WOWWwwwwww hoooo -Devin Townsend WoWoW WoWoW WoWoW - Mike Portnoy Email: Calfaro@Caribe.net Calfaro@dreamt.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:27:57 -0400 From: Stan Tyszka <sstys@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2059 Message-ID: <329C882D.FFD@earthlink.net>
> > 15. Jason Newsted's stupid faces. I mean, does this guy always look like > he has to take a shit or what? > > 16. Do any of them ever look like they're having fun anymore for that > matter? Even in the Kill =EBEm All and Ride The Lightning days when the > music was filled with anger and more anger they at least smiled in > pictures. > > 17. No lyrics in the new CD insert... > > 18. ... but, instead, dozens of pictures to assure you that they really > do look like Soundgarden now. etc...etc...etc...
good god id hate to be famous and in the same room with this person, i mean come on people its THEIR muic let them play it THEIR way. i totally respect them for throwing everybody a huge curveball, and doing it how they want. i am not real fond of load but isnt it all about having fun, they seem to be doing so. flame away(private email only)..
stan
see you all at birch fuckin hill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:47:51 -0500 (EST) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: Yitz-see-jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Finally US dates for TMB!!! Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.961127144706.1634A-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
hey, kids. thought you might find this interesting (to those of you who are Genesis fans like myself.
> Hi Folks, > > Just got word from the The Musical Box' manager, Alain Guimond, that there > are a couple more gigs added to the tour schedule next spring, and yes, > folks, it even includes *two* US dates!! > > Feb 1, 97: Rouyn, QC: Theatre du Cuivre > Feb 15, 97: Montreal, QC: Spectrum > Apr 25, 26: Raleigh, NC: The Ritz (!!!) > > So people who live in the NC area (and even people who live further away > make sure to keep April 25 and 26 free to visit a show of this madrigal > ;) band... > > And, there are a few more surprises in the making!! Keep checking out The > Musical Box' webpages at: > > http://www2.magmacom.com/~yearwood/tmb.html > http://www.atreide.net/cshow/index.html > > for the latest news and dates... > > See you at the shows! You will not be disappointed. >
____________________________________________ michael b. ostrich - musical consultant e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org syrinx@wicked.stigmata.org syrinx@astro.ocis.temple.edu
"..and now you're trembling on a rocky ledge, staring down into a heartless sea. done with life on a razor's egde, nothing's what you thought it woule be.." - neil peart.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:20:20 -0600 (CST) From: Bigman <martinah@csd.uwm.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: FATES WARNING fans, I need your help! (NDTC) Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961127141549.9969A-100000@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu>
Greetings, I received this e-mail recently. I've never heard of what he's talking about, but I'm very curious myself now. If ANYONE has this, or has access to it, I'll send you a tape if you're willing ot make a dub. Thanks a million! And remember to reply to me privately... DaBigman
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 12:36:50 -0500 Subject: Rivers edge...
fellow fates fan i have been searching hi n low for a copy of the rivers edge soundtrack(which has been discontinued) in order to get my dirty little hands on their version of "kyrie elison" if you know of anyone i can get a copy from... i would appreciate any info u can give
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:30:11 -0800 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Is That A Doughnut In Your Pocket... Message-ID: <199611272030.MAA15751@main.cfmc.com>
>From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> > > Now then, I have a small announcement to make... Melissa and I >are getting married today. Officially. The church wedding is 11/7/97, but >today is when we go to the JP and get it done legally, so that we can >combine health, life, & auto insurances, plus credit, plus we can try to >start a family. Naturally, I'm a bit numb on the subject emotionally... I >don't know HOW a person is supposed to feel about getting married. I'll >let you all know when it's over. :) Shipments might be a bit slow for a >week or two while we honeymoon at Disneyland & Magic Mtn, and then go to >an Equinox training in Long Beach (back to work eh). Anyway, almost all of >you sent your kind wishes when we were engaged, we just wanted to thank >you all in advance, and hope we can meet again soon.
Cheers! My shack-job is stress enough, thinking about it. Good luck, my man! Couldn't be happier for you...
And good ol' Southern California! Just reading that makes me somewhat homesick, as a bornunraised Long Beacher. Guess the transplant hasn't taken completely...
> As far as the women w/prog music thing, I think the main problem >is that most women don't get to HEAR prog music. Melissa (my wife as of >later today) listened to pop, R&B, rap, whatever the hell MTV and pop >radio played, for her entire LIFE before she met me. Dream Theater is now >tied with King's X as her favourite band, and they're followed up in no >real order by Rush, Type O Negative, Tori Amos, and Galactic Cowboys. She >told me once that the music is just so much better than the repetitive, >industry-synthesized crap she always listened to before, that she would >have been into it all along if only someone she trusted had introduced her >to it.
I think that's partically true. A lot of our tastes are formed by listening environment. I remember early-80's pop somewhat fondly, but as art is isn't within five miles of, say, "Ear Candy" or "Kind Of Blue." I think, though, that women also have different aesthetic tastes for reasons that aren't entirely socialization...
> Revealing eh? Also, consider that, statistically, more women are >right-brained and more men are left-brained. What this means is that one >characteristic of RB people (usually women) is that they won't believe >something is true unless it "feels" true, or someone they trust or have a >connection with says it's true, etc. To get more women into good music, we >not only have to expose the material to them, but we also have to do it >from the standpoint of someone who cares about them, whether as a friend >or boyfriend/husband. Most left-brainers, generally men, will look at the >facts and declare something true if it appears so, even if their feelings >or hunch about the matter indicates the total opposite. They may check >into their hunch, but the issue is generally left pretty much alone. All >this is pretty fascinating when you look into it. Please note that there's >no "right" way to think... LB and RB thinking are equally valid, and there >ARE LB women and RB men out there... Millions of them. I bet nobody can >even tell which I am, because I'm just here to have fun. :) But I digress.
Women also generally have a larger corpus callosum, which means that their left and right hemispheres are more closely connected, and more information gets from one side to the other. That isn't universally true, though, and a lot of studies have found that you can actually DEVELOP that attribute by doing things that require heavy input from both sides -- pattern recognition, for instance. Australian Aboriginals have a HUGE advantage in that regard and have a tremendous spatial intelligence, but don't develop their critical thinking skills. So nature and nurture DO talk to each other. I'm not exactly sure what information is imparted in progressive music versus pop music, but there certainly IS a difference, and it seems like that's reflected someone in relative popularity.
>From: Eric Hansen <ehansen@apu.edu> > > I agree that Maiden is not prog metal. I think they just have a sound >that is very British metal, remember Judas Priest? I think the >"intelligent" part of their sound comes from Mr. Dikinson. Did you all know >he really did go to university? Majored in literature or something. He >wrote a novel. And he was something like 3rd or 7th ranked fencer in all >England (up with fencing!!!:). So he is an educated man and lends that to >his music.
Well, Steve Harris writes a LOT of the lyrics, so I think you've gotta credit him, as well, for being a fairly intelligent chap. I guess I'm not convincing anyone with my "Maiden as Prog" argument, probably 'cause they're identified with the NWOBHM. Priest, though, isn't really progresive at all....and I'd say that Dream Theater is closer in sound to Maiden than Priest is.
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Rush: Test For Echo 2. Rush: Hold Your Fire 3. Lemur Voice: Insights 4. Jaco Pastorius: Live In New York, Vol. 2 5. Metal Church: The Human Factor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:13:07 -0500 From: Vencer1@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: fates news!! Message-ID: <961127161306_1386292725@emout12.mail.aol.com>
Subj: Latest* FW news Date: 96-11-27 01:49:35 EST From: MtlBldRcds
This just in from the Fates camp:
Drums tracks for the new record are completed The new record will be called "A Lighter Shade of Grey". It consist of one 54 minute long song. Kevin Moore will be doing a guest appearance on keyboards. At this time there are no plans for him to tour with the band. Joey Vera plays Bass on the record and will tour with the band also. ===========================
How you like that?
See you at my normal e-mail address
Kevin
GO PACKERS!! GO WINGS!!
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2061 **************************
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