YTSEJAM Digest 1896
Today's Topics:
1) Pat's O's
by svjohnson@amoco.com
2) Clockwork
by "Anthony N. Sciamanna" <st96d6z4@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
3) questions for Boston area readers...
by Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1895
by Jack Daniels <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
5) Vai tix; DT page
by "Susan Ostroske" <spatz13@msn.com>
6) Lighten up, baby...
by Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
7) New discs?
by KOPCSODA@vaxvmsx.babson.edu
8) Post-Con activities?
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1895
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
10) list up?
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
11) Visual Music (#2)
by YtseJim <LUTZ@uhavax.hartford.edu>
12) Stuff....
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
13) Re: DT International Fan Club
by Neil Elliott <101352.3261@CompuServe.COM>
14) Savatage: Live in Japan video
by Ed Reed <ereed@comp.uark.edu>
15) DT video
by NUPRIN <nuprin@wichita.fn.net>
16) Visual music #2
by Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org>
17) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1894
by Rick <fargo@brown.edu>
18) Re: DT video
by Carlos Alfaro <kurt@fgallery.com>
19) Various Shite!
by "Mark Fitchett" <mafit@msn.com>
20) videos
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
21) Visual Music (#2)
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
22) tori in 'cert
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 10:01:14 -0500
From: svjohnson@amoco.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Pat's O's
Message-ID: <199610021634.AA25603@interlock.amoco.com>
Pat Daugherty or Griffin--I can't remember
I may have been one who gave you a little pre-season grief re: White
Sox and Orioles. That was way back when I thought Chicago had a
bullpen.
But it's good to see Alomar taking some heat off of Belle for biggest
asshole in baseball! :)
G3 is supposed to play the Aragon here in Chicago on Nov. 1, but
Ticketmaster says they don't have any listing yet. Anyone know when
tickets go on sale? Thanks!
Steve
"Exaaaactly!......D'oh!!!!"
- Homer auditioning for part of Montgomery Burns
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:44:50 -0500
From: "Anthony N. Sciamanna" <st96d6z4@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Clockwork
Message-ID: <v03007801ae785a2be9ed@DialupEudora>
I hate to take up space on the jam, so you'll have to excuse me. A few
people e-mailed me within the past few days about getting "Weaving Webs of
Time". I've seemed to lose a couple of the messages. So if you e-mailed
me and I never returned it, try again.
-Anthony Sciamanna
CLOCKWORK
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:49:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: questions for Boston area readers...
Message-ID: <199610021649.MAA16340@hematite.cs.brandeis.edu>
A few quick things for Boston area readers...
First off, are any of you going to the Rush concert up here... I am
trying to find some people to go with from my school, and I have yet
to find some people interested in going... I'll go alone, but it
would be nice to get together w/ some Ytsejam readers...
Next, does anyone have directions on how to get to Ytsecon? I am
guessing 95 most of the way, but not sure once you get to NYC. I
would offer people rides, but I am doing something either the night
before or night of Ytsecon back here in Boston, so will either get
there late, or have to leave early...
Anyway, let me know on either subject...
--
+--------------------------------+--------+-------------------------+
| Driven to the margin or error | Rush | Michael Burstin |
| Driven to the edge of control | Driven | Brandeis University |
| Driven to the margin or terror |--------+-------------------------|
| Driven to the edge of a deep, dark hole | Lets go Pens & Steelers |
+-----------------------------------------+-------------------------+
For info about Dream Theater, finger mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu
http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/home.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:15:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jack Daniels <drussell@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1895
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961002131226.22930A-100000@thunder.ocis.temple.edu>
I attended a Dream Theater concert in Philadelphia during the Images and
Words tour, it was at the TLA on South Street. I now remember James
Labrie stating that the turn out for the show was very small (there was
about a hundred people there) Could this be the reason why Dream Theater
does not play in Philadelphia anymore?? Also I would love to see a James
Labrie version of When Dream and Day Unite!! How does that sound people!!!!
Later!!!
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 17:29:28 UT
From: "Susan Ostroske" <spatz13@msn.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Vai tix; DT page
Message-ID: <UPMAIL08.199610021732410024@msn.com>
In case anyone cares...I got my ticket fr Steve Vai... so my bday won't
completely suck...
Also, FYI for anyone who has links to my DT page: please remove them... I
took the page down a month ago (sorry I didn't mention it then) because I
realized I had no intenton of keeping it updated. My regular page (here come
a shameless plug) is back up and running... see URL below...
Suz
Spatz13@msn.com
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/3781
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 17:34:37 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov>
To: Ytse Dahlings <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Lighten up, baby...
Message-ID: <3252A7AC.1B37@mailstorm.dot.gov>
The movie Crossroads was on the tube this past weekend. For those who
may not have seen it yet, I COMMAND THEE TO RENT IT! If for nothing
else, to see how much Steve Vai needs to learn about guitar. Ralph
Machio can shred scales around him. If you don't think Ralph is better
than Steve, you have no concept of what music is about and I'll quite
simply have to mow your ass down with a cheese grater.
By the way, anybody got any spare G3 tix for the Orpheum show? :)
--------------------------
Anyone know what happened to John Butcher Axis? I seem to remember
enjoying his stuff but haven't heard anything in years.
--------------------------
> From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
> sure, kurt cant play a solo to save his life...
That's sick, bro! And I thought I was damaged (now I know I am :)
I believe it was George Carlin who said something like 'you can joke
about ANYTHING, it's all depends upon the context in which it's used.'
For example, :)
If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it
considered a hostage situatiion?
--------------------------
Ethno-Visual Sickness #1:
ga ga ga ga
li li li li li li
sven ga sven gali li sven ga sven gali li
ga ga
*------------*------------------------*--------------*
| Jon Parmet | jonp@mailstorm.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 |
*------------*------------------------*--------------*
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 14:09:52 -0500 (EST)
From: KOPCSODA@vaxvmsx.babson.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New discs?
Message-ID: <01IA64UWWBAA8WWEGW@vaxvmsx.babson.edu>
Does anyone know around when DT's new album is coming out? I heard a rumor
that King's X was dropped from their label. Say it ain't so.... Is it?
thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:15:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu>
To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Post-Con activities?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9610021431.A14599-0100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
Hey, I haven't heard anything about what's going on after the Con! Come
on! I'm going to be in town, and I want to hang out n stuff with you
crazy peeplez! Does anyone have any ideas of what they're doing
afterwards?
Also... I posted road directions to the con a couple of weeks ago. If
you missed them, deleted them, whatever, let me know and I'll repost them.
Until then, then.
-d
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary
cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn
d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List
http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:59:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1895
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.961002135843.24888A-100000@enteract.com>
Hey... anyone who knows much about Cakewalk PLEASE mail me. I have a midi
problem, and I need help. Thank you. Sorry for the No DTC, but this list
is filled with musicians.... thought it was a good place to check.
--------------------------------------
Christopher Ptacek at Enteract, L.L.C.
Technical Support Engineer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
T h o u g l e e k i n g o n i o n e y e d d e a t h t o k e n
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: list up?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961002151639.19118A-100000@bdmserver>
Hey has anyone gotten a digest in the last 2 days or so?
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com |
|=======================================================================|
| "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
| "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Hail to the Redskins 4-1 * Go Orioles-Playoff bound in 1996!!! |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:23:38 +0000
From: YtseJim <LUTZ@uhavax.hartford.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Visual Music (#2)
Message-ID: <Pine.VMS.3.91-vms-b4.961002151934.13425C-100000@uhavax.hartford.edu>
> This next Visual Music (#2) isn't a melody...it's a sound effect in a DT
> song...shouldn't be too hard to recognize. :)
>
>brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAA
>AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<roomshaking>RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHGGGGGGRRRRRR
>RAAAAAAAAAABBBBBRRRRRRRRAAAAAAA<windowsbreaking>RAAAAAAAAAAAAAARBBBBBGRRRRRR
>RRRRRRRRRRRRRRBUUUULLLLLLLLLLRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe no one has gotten this yet!!
This ones EAsy!!!
Its A change of seasons, The Keyboard effects at about 18min (I Think)
So do i win a prize or sumthin' :)
//######################################################\\
// Jim Lutz "Time was never on my side, \\
// So on I wait my whole lifetime" \\
// lutz@uhavax.hartford.edu -Metallica \\
// YtseJim@DreamT.org \\
//################################################################\\
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:41:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
To: ThE NuGgeTjAm <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Stuff....
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.91.961002142824.663B-100000@indy21.gclab.missouri.edu>
The Ytsejam T-shirt page has been updated, current as of Monday, Sept
30th. If you have ordered a shirt and recived email from me confirming
your order, please check the page and make sure that your name is up
there now (Except GHS, I just got your check yesterday).
http://www.cclabs.missouri.edu~c675311/ytsejam/
------
Damon: You're too damn paranoid! There are alreadly better than 30 sold
tickets to the Con, and the list of possible attendees is upwards of 150
or so. I'm still going, if that helps any. :) There will be plenty of
people there, so don't sweat it.
And to anyone that's concidering going, but hasn't decided, just do it!
I have met a good half a dozen 'jammers in person, and all have been cool
people (hell, one of them is my GF now!). Think of the Con as a way to
meet new people, get exposed to new music, have a great time, and
possibly even meet a few members of your favorite band. And if that
doesn't help, think of it as an oppertunity to get into a massive
fist-fight with the @#$!% that flamed you on the last jam (but please
keep all violent acts off the hotel grounds so Jeff and the rest of the
staff don't get sued. ;) Seriously, though, a great time will be had by
all, and if you can afford to go, or even if it will put you in debt for
the next month or two, go ahead and go. Mike Bahr is coming from Texas
and bringing rare DT CDs (and an entourage of police escorts, Mike? ;),
Charone is coming from California, and this trip is costing her a good
$6-800. That's a hell of a sacrifice for someone living the 'poor
student life'.
If you come to the Con, you'll have a good time, it's as simple as that.
:)
------
Ben: Some will probably beat me to this by the time this one posts, but
that last VM was the middle of ACoS, no? :)
And to answer your previous question, I wasn't talking about navels. :)
------
Well, I have babbled long enough... before I go, I'd like to thank
everyone who has purchased a shirt so far. And I encourage those of you
that haven't to get them while you still can. Later all...
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
| Pat Griffin Reality2 Design |
| c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu |
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
------------------------------
Date: 02 Oct 96 15:16:54 EDT
From: Neil Elliott <101352.3261@CompuServe.COM>
To: "INTERNET:ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: DT International Fan Club
Message-ID: <961002191654_101352.3261_JHP33-3@CompuServe.COM>
Just a fresh reminder to everyone who is not a part of it, is that the 'New'
(ish) Dream Theater International Fan Club is up and running sucessfully, with
regular quarterly mail-outs going out to members. We have some interesting
features coming up soon, along with interviews, articles, competitions, and
regular news updates on the progress of things, plus the possibility of some
'specials' to come!
Anyone who is interested in joining up, please e-mail me direct:
101352.3261@compuserve.com
and I'll send you the info.
Cheers,
Neil Elliott
Director - DTIFC
*******************************************************
"I think we have an album title!" - Mike Portnoy 7/96
*******************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:52:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ed Reed <ereed@comp.uark.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Savatage: Live in Japan video
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.961002144704.28811A-100000@comp.uark.edu>
Hey Jammers,
Anyone out there own a copy of the Savatage: Live in Japan
videotape from '94? The videotape, not the CD... it also helps if it's
a format compatible with U.S. VCR's. If you've got one and are interested
in getting rid of it, or have one and would be willing to dub it for me,
please respond... this thing is practically impossible to find anywhere.
Quick opinion poll: I know that copyrights probably still apply
to imported materials, but what does everyone think of dubbing imports for
friends? True, the band doesn't get any money from it, but when you are
shelling out in excess of $25 a pop for import CDs and such, it's just not
very economically feasible. Same thing applies to stuff that is out of
print: if you *can't* buy it anywhere, then is copying it such a 'bad
thing' (tm)?
DrX.
/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\ /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
| I am the way, I am the light... | Ed Reed |
| I am the dark inside the night. | ereed@comp.uark.edu |
| I hear your hopes, I feel your dreams... | ehr@engr.uark.edu |
| And in the dark I hear your screams. | drx@reich.uark.edu |
<=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=|=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=->
| Don't walk away, just take my hand... | |
| And when you make your final stand... | Savatage -- |
| I'll be right there, I'll never leave... | 'Believe' |
| All I ask of you is Believe. | |
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/ \-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:00:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: NUPRIN <nuprin@wichita.fn.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT video
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.961002145843.17328A-100000@wichita.fn.net>
I would DEFINTELY make a video for A Change Of Seasons and it would be
directed by Martin Scorsese (Michael Jackson's BAD was awesome!).
Anyways, this would definitely be a winner!
/,
\>
/< John Nguyen (aka NUPRIN)
} /> Musician/Artist/Programmer/Lover/Parent
[\\\\(@):::>|=+=+========================================---
} \> ...and Defender Of All Worthy Women!!
\< "all I want is to have my peace of mind"
/> --BOSTON
\' http://www.feist.com/~nuprin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:59:35 -0700
From: Brian <DreamNDay@dreamt.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Visual music #2
Message-ID: <3252F3D7.11A9@dreamt.org>
>brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRA
>AAAA
>AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH<roomshaking>RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHGGGGGGRR
>RRRR
>RAAAAAAAAAABBBBBRRRRRRRRAAAAAAA<windowsbreaking>RAAAAAAAAAAAAAARBBBBBGRR
>RRRR
>RRRRRRRRRRRRRRBUUUULLLLLLLLLLRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well DUH! Its obviously Derek's train noise/bull being raped from ACOS!
later--------------Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:09:53 -0400
From: Rick <fargo@brown.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1894
Message-ID: <199610022011.QAA03807@golden.brown.edu>
>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 22:53:24 UT
>From: "Joey Axe Man" <IBANEZ_MAN@msn.com>
>To: ytsejam@ax.com
>Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 1890
>Message-ID: <UPMAIL04.199610012253510153@msn.com>
>
>I use carvin amps...only the power amps...lol
>
>
>i run an ada mp-1 for clean
> rocktron progap for some dirty
> mesa boogie tri axis for most of it
>
>through a carvin fet 900
>
>into 4 carvin cabinets....awesome tones man...i love carvin stuff
>
>Joey
>
Carvin stuff rules. I have one of their custom guitars, a T100
all-tube stereo power amp and 2 2x12 cabinets. I have an RP-1 which I use
for a pre-amp, and surprisingly the tone is AWESOME!! The power amp adds so
much life to the otherwise, clean, yet sterile sound of the Digitech unit.
And the guitar plays like a dream. How is the tri-axis? I know its a
really popular pre-amp, but it was so pricey. Is it worth it?
Rick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:17:06 -0400
From: Carlos Alfaro <kurt@fgallery.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: DT video
Message-ID: <3252CDC2.4F90@fgallery.com>
ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
>
> I would DEFINTELY make a video for A Change Of Seasons and it would be
> directed by Martin Scorsese (Michael Jackson's BAD was awesome!).
> Anyways, this would definitely be a winner!
> yeah! definately..but i would choose mat mahurin.. the guy that made unforgiven for metallica.. and i think he also did silent lucidity
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 96 20:12:50 UT
From: "Mark Fitchett" <mafit@msn.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Various Shite!
Message-ID: <UPMAIL06.199610022030250495@msn.com>
G'day Fellow Dreamers!
First some DTC:
I just heard "Antiquities" - hey its great, I especially like the first 2
tracks - A Crack in the Mirror and Take the Time - the keys from Derek are
fantastic on both - the version of TTT with the "The Mists of Evening" ending
is the best i've heard knocks spots off the LiT ending.
I've heard "Don't Look Past Me" with James and John Hendricks on Vocs. -
forgive my ignorance but is this a DT written song? cause I think its great!
Please enlighten me!
Now non DTC -
Can anyone tell me more about this "Yanni" I've seen mentioned on the Jam? I'm
pretty open minded when it comes to music so you can e-mail me priv. and give
me some pointers on him?/her?/Them?!
Also is there a Tori Amos Digest like the Ytsejam List? Again E-mail me please
if you know anything.
Just heard Lemur Voice Cd and after a few listens the music sounds great! I
like the singers voice aswell but I can't understand a word he is singing!
unlike the Superior singer.
Not to Dale Newberry : Red Dwarf 7 starts over here in January - Chris Barrie
is in just 4 episodes of this series but he has signed a contract to appear in
ALL of series 8 - this is fact not gossip by the way!
Thanks for your Time everyone
Ytsemark
"For Those about to Rock - We Salute You!" - AC/DC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:32:47 -0500
From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: videos
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961002203247.00697f10@mail.inlink.com>
hmm... make a video for any song? how about "the silent man"... and just
have myung sit in front of the camera :)
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 15:43:12 -0500
From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Visual Music (#2)
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961002204312.0069be20@mail.inlink.com>
too simple. the bullrape gave it away but i HAD guessed it before i got
there :)
c'mon guys, its ACoS!
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 16:13:29 -0500
From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: tori in 'cert
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19961002211329.006a42c4@mail.inlink.com>
>I can't remember the
>order of the songs that well but she played:
>
>Beauty Queen / Horses / Blood Roses / Tatula / Caught A Light Sneeze /
>Cornflake Girl / Precious Things / Me and a Gun / Somewhere Over the
>Rainbow / Daniel (Elton John) / Hey Anastasia / Sweet Dreams / Little
>Amsterdam / Twinkle / Leather / London Girl
i'm glad as hell to hear she still does Me and a Gun... i havent seen her
live yet but i'm hoping to and Me and a Gun is simply the most emotional,
bare, and powerful song she's done. With an instrument you've something to
hide behind, but when you're just singing you're vital, and theres no music
to protect you. Seeing her perform this live would make up for missing the
vai concert w/ orchestra in new york which i couldnt get to sleep last nite
because i cant believe i had to miss it. hehe.
~Rip
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1896
**************************
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