YTSEJAM Digest 1859
Today's Topics:
1) Helloween drummer.....Ingo Swichtenberg (R.I.P.)
by "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
2) woohoo, on with the nirvana & pearl jam thread
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
3) Metalopolis
by "Andrew Keith Garinger" <garinger@pilot.msu.edu>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
5) queensryche question
by "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@serbia-c.it.earthlink.net>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858
by Stan Tyszka <sstys@earthlink.net>
7) YTSEJAM digest 1858
by HQAF74A@prodigy.com ( BRANDON M SIPES)
8) music trends
by Monty Newberry <mjnewb@mo.net>
9) Bonedance/JOC/recurring threads
by Monty Newberry <mjnewb@mo.net>
10) subscribe ytsejam (WWW generated email)
by Nanne Andersson <nils.g.andersson@mbox330.swipnet.se>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858
by "Jan van Huizen" <aurora@mail.wirehub.nl>
12) It Bites!
by Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk>
13) Power of Omens Demos are FREE!!!!
by YtseJammr1@aol.com
14) Echolyn "When the sweet...", Z, Enchant
by cote@medcor.mcgill.ca
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858
by Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu>
16) Re: Def Leppard orignal members
by Andrew Berry <andrew@aberry.demon.co.uk>
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:10:43 -0400
From: "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Helloween drummer.....Ingo Swichtenberg (R.I.P.)
Message-ID: <3244BC43.63AE@earthlink.net>
mmo> Hey all
>
> Ive seen some people post about Helloween before, so i thought id throw
> this question out to any of you "in the know"
> On the liner notes of "The Time of the Oath", they dedicate it to their former
> drummer from 2 albums ago. Does anyone know what happened to him?
> Did he die? Just Curious
Unfortunately, the answer to your question is yes. The revolving soap
opera that is known as GAMMA RAY and HELLOWEEN is a very complicated
affair in which HELLOWEEN's original drummer, Ingo Swichtenberg,
committed suicide about 2-3 years ago by (of all horrible ways) throwing
himself under a train. It was basically a very rough period for him
because Michael Weikath (guitarist for HELLOWEN) had kicked him out
because of drug use but would not let him back in after months of rehab
and sobering up.
However, (now it gets crazy) because by this time Kai Hansen (former
guitarist for HELLOWEEN) had already left and was going strong with his
equally amazing new band GAMMA RAY. Kai split becaue Weikath was
getting VERY jealous of him getting more recognition as a guitar player
so Kai just up and left. After Kai was gone, Weikath turned on Michael
Kiske (one of the BEST singers on the planet.....eclipses LaBrie by
centuries!....he was just 17 on Keeper of the Seven Keys Pt. 1..!!!) and
slowly forced him out of HELLOWEEN by late '93 I think. Kai Hansen and
Michael Kiske were dear friends to Ingo so it hurt him a lot when they
were both gone, but his main (actually his only passion) was to be able
to make music with friends. Thats why he was so miserable in that time
period when he was kicked out because Kai already had a drummer with
GAMMA RAY (who incidentally is now the drummer for HELLOWEEN...let it
sink in, you'll figure it out) and Weikath wouldn't let him back in the
band. Being on such hard times, he decided to end his life.
Its such a shame because his double-bass is like lightning on "Walls
of Jericho" and in live situations he added so many interesting rides
that I never noticed on the albums. He will be sorely missed....an
amazing musician who ended his life way too soon.
Hope that helped rather than confuse you even more. The only good that
I see coming out of this whole mess is that there are now 3 great bands
creating quality music (harmonized leads, double bass, gallops, soaring
melodies, sheer power and SPEED!!!) instead of just one. Now there is
HELLOWEEN, GAMMA RAY, and Michael Kiske is releasing his solo CD very
soon with Kai Hansen and Adrian Smith (IRON MAIDEN). Check them
out..they are HIGHLY recommended...the new GAMMA RAY "Land of the Free"
is probably the best disc i've bought all year..they're just all great
musicians!!!!!!
cheers,
Carlo (aka Fates, aka YtseSatan)
-- "When you know that your time is close at hand maybe then you'll begin to understand Life down here is just a strange illusion."--IRON MAIDEN (Hallowed Be Thy Name)
"Neo-classical, progressive, melodic speed metal"
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:42:44 -0500 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: woohoo, on with the nirvana & pearl jam thread Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960922044244.006c731c@mail.inlink.com>
> >Oh, do tell me how either of those two are innovators. There have >been sloppy guitarists that play little else than type I or II barre >chords and fifths since long before those guys were born. I would >really like to know what makes players like them innovative. Could >it be that they're innovative because they played their music when >MTV saw the possibility to create a trend? Or do you honestly >believe that it's the artists that create the trend, and not the >companies with the $$$ and the people who give the exposure?
i'm willing to bet even record companies arent stupid shit enough to just pull out a non talented form of music and make it popular... implying that the fans are a bunch of mindless trend followers isnt right, there's a lot of bright people who enjoy the music simply because its fun. sure, its got three chords, theres no talent in it, i WENT OVER THAT IN THE LAST POST. but it sounds catchy as hell and people were tired of guys who could play 16th notes as high as their metronome would tick. the reason these bands got popular is because the people asked for it so the record companies gave it to them. i agree with kirk hammet's comment that people had seen so much of this glam lifestyle that when they saw kurt cobain they saw a normal guy and they could relate. record companies were bright enough to realize people would see this so they promoted it. back before the death of kurt cobain and all that shit, 92 or so, the whole scene was still ticking fresh... it was a new thing, and yes, i'm gonna say it again, nirvana and pearl jam were innovating it.
>Innovative implies doing something new.
exactamundo. you dont think this whole new genre was new at the time? sure, now theres a billion nirvana clones and alternative wannabes... but at the time there was no one else like it, the ones that were were quite few and far between. they emerged from a scene of glam and poofy hair and cleanly bathen lifestyles to grunge filthy greasy haired "grunge" no matter how much record companies push a piece of shit, its not going to go anywhere. the whole alternative scene didnt start out as a piece of shit. if you cant look beyond "talent" on the guitar to find good music you'll miss out on a lot of stuff. you can also force yourself to like something that sounds like shit, just because its played by someone talented. some of those speed burner theory packer guys just have no emotion... thats no fun to listen to. i dont want to look like i'm ragging on talented stuff and saying i'm a lover of this alternative scene, i grew up with the glam, i still pop in my old crue discs so HA! but i still think these bands were extremely innovative in crafting a new form of music which so many other bands now shape around and branch off. if you still cant see it theres a tad bit wrong in the ol' cabeza. TALENT DOES NOT IMPLY INNOVATION, INNOVATION DOES NOT IMPLY TALENT. the two words are hardly interchangeable, so dont shove words in my mouth. talent also doesnt imply good music, and good music doesnt imply talent. theres not even a definition for talent... it can be so many things, it doesnt mean being able to play fast, nor knowledge of the notes or scales.. if you simply know what the guitar sounds like, not in a general aspect, but if you know what sounds youre making, even if you dont know the notes or chords or anything, theres still a talent there. ok i'm not going to stop ranting if i continue on like this, i'll kill it off... the end. replies welcome :)
> >But shit... we're not talking about these bands on a progressive list >again, are we?
if we only talked prog we'd be ruling out a lot of great bands.. i dont limit myself to only prog, theres too much good shit out there. it IS one of my favorite styles of music, but i dont base my whole listening structure around it. too much else to enjoy :)
~Rip
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:47:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew Keith Garinger" <garinger@pilot.msu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Metalopolis Message-ID: <199609220447.AAA26635@pilot10.cl.msu.edu>
To the guy looking for a CD copy of Return to Metalopolis:
Good luck. The CD's out of print. I managed to find one in a used bin and I'd be happy to make another tape copy for you, but I suspect you'll have an awful hard time finding it.
Andrew
-- garinger@pilot.msu.edu Zeta Beta Tau-Beta Epsilon Chapter
For most people, music is a backdrop for their lives. For me, my life is a backdrop for my music.
GB/MU d- s++:-- a-- C++ !U P? !L E--- W+ N-- K- w-- !O M-- !V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP t++ 5 X+ R tv+ b+++ DI+++ D++ G- e* h++ r--- !y+ (The above Geek Code may be decoded at http://hci.ise.vt.edu/~jreiss/ geek/geek.cgi)
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Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:58:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858 Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.960921235329.780A-100000@enteract.com>
To answer a question... I have the Chris Poland CD. I could dub it for you if your tape has called it quits. I think it's out of production, which is the only reason I'll offer the dub.
Now... has anyone else on the Jam had the pleasure of listening to the band "Masquerade"? I've had their album "Surface of Pain" for almost a year, and it's terrific. It's on Metal Blade and has only been out for about a year. Listen up... this band sounds, and this is a very accurate description, as those of you who have the album will note, like a mix of EOT era Savatage, Empire era Queensryche, with harmonies similar to Extreme. Sound too good to believe? BUY THE ALBUM.
You can no longer be considered a responsible jammer if you haven't at least looked into purchasing/hearing Lemur Voice. Theirs is the best album of 96.
"There's no way out, so close the way in" -Lemur Voice
-------------------------------------- Christopher Ptacek at Enteract, L.L.C. Technical Support Engineer -------------------------------------------------------------------------- T h o u g l e e k i n g o n i o n e y e d d e a t h t o k e n
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:41:50 +0000 From: "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@serbia-c.it.earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: queensryche question Message-ID: <199609220534.WAA10433@armenia.it.earthlink.net>
heya;
someone gave me this info on irc one nite, but i lost it (stupid me)... does anyone have the information for joining the QR fan club? if so, could ya mail me directly?
thanks. Andrew
Andrew Miller - Keyboardist/Composer - SubtleRage subtlerage@earthlink.net - http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:48:42 +0000 From: Stan Tyszka <sstys@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858 Message-ID: <32449AFA.1AD6@earthlink.net>
in reply to Jeff Falk the origional songwriting members of Def Leppard are Joe Elliot, Rick Savage, and Rick Allen.
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 02:23:49, -0500 From: HQAF74A@prodigy.com ( BRANDON M SIPES) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1858 Message-ID: <199609220623.CAA14504@mime3.prodigy.com>
I might be slightly interested in anything that had ANYTHING to do with Dream Theater, but since none of what you send me does, stop sending me 4 letters a day of this worthless, time consuming crap..... ....Thanks.......
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:46:47 -0600 From: Monty Newberry <mjnewb@mo.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: music trends Message-ID: <3244EEE7.6233@mo.net>
>i think pretty sson the 90s will come to a point of being overdone, >alternative will die out, and a new form, hopefully more a la 80s :), >will take the streets and the airwaves. patience :) Well, Rip, you hit it right on the head. In case anyone happened to see "It Came from the 80s II: Metal Goes Pop" on MTV last week, those were the exact same sentiments (sort of) expressed by Jani Lane (Warrant) or Don Dokken (I think). He said that popular music sort of goes in three-part cycles. You have your originators of said scene (be it shred, glam, grunge, whatever), then you have bands that follow after those trend-setters, and then you can easily see things go down when all you have are a bunch of poor copycats. Actually, now that I think of it, it may have been Don Dokken, because he was discussing how the band's image was a pure copy of what was popular (he said it with a laugh). How their manager told them to just be themselves, but he (DD) was like "No way man, this is what's it. This is what this other band's doing and we have to do it, too." I think the scene now is in the beginning stages of the third stage when everyone is just a poor copy of each other. I do think metal will be more popular again, but I don't think it will at least start out being as cheesy as it ended up being in the 80s (i.e. makeup, spandex, and huge hair). I mean, I think there will be more emphasis on musical talent, as opposed tom merely being some big image. Actually, when you think about it, the alternative scene now is just like pop metal ended up being in the 80s. It's primarily about the image and the lifestyle, only instead of huge hair, spandex, and the "rock star" lifestyle, it's about piercings, tattoos (which I dig, but not because it's trendy), looking "punk," and being angry/melancholy all the time (I guess, in a way, you could call it "the tortured artist" lifestyle). ANd as far as shred coming back goes, maybe it will, but I think the "shred-meisters" will maybe have a better sense of melody and actual songwriting, as opposed to just seeing how fast one can play. Well, I've rambled on enough. I've studied pop culture before, and it's something I tend to ramble on about. Sorry.
Dale R. Newberry
P.S. Though i don't have the Rush tix in my hands (had some guys with, like, 12 line tickets pick some up for me and some buds), they should be good seats. BTW, I'll either be wearing a ytsejam shirt (hopefully I'll have mine by then :), or, if it hasn't com by that time, I'll likely be wearing a Galactic Cowboys shirt, so look for the short (well, 5'9") dude with short brown hair (probably wearing a hat), hanging out sucking on a huge stogie (I'll be stopping by The Tinder Box and getting a special one for the show :). Man, I'm saying this like ths show's tomorrow (just my overactive sense of anticipation). If anyone on the list is going to the show, it'd be cool if we could get together before or afterward and hang, or at least meet (I've never met a jammer in person, and I've been on the list for over a year-and-a-half - well, back in the .arastar days. I can't really remember when I first got on. Oh well). Okay, I'm shutting up for real this time.
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 02:09:16 -0600 From: Monty Newberry <mjnewb@mo.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Bonedance/JOC/recurring threads Message-ID: <3244F42C.14E0@mo.net>
Just one thing to say here, Bonedance kicks some TAIL!!!!!!!! They are actually getting a bit of airplay on one of the college stations in St. Louis (89.1 FM KCLC form Lindenwood College in St. Charles, MO). Also, I just heard that Jars of Clay is doing a song on a soundtrack for a new movie starring Samuel Jackson and Geena Davis ("Long Kiss Goodbye"). They were evidently originally asked to cover Bowie's "Heroes" with Adrian Bellew (would've been cool), but felt more comfortable writing their own song (I think it's called "The Chair"). For anyone who hasn't heard them and may be curious, I guess the closest comparison I could think of would be Toad the Wet Sprocket, but they're not clones. Oh, and they are supposed to take a violinist on the road with them next time around, so that might be pretty cool. Oh, and to the dude who expressed his dislike for recurring threads, yeah, I agree, they can be sort of annoying. I am guilty of taking part in SOME of them, but I try and use a little wisdom/judgment in knowing when I should post about a thread and when not to. At least we haven't had any serious flame wars for a while (anyone remember that nice religion "debate" from eons ago?). Well, better go again. Maybe I'll have another cool dream tonight about DT. Later all.
Dale R. Newberry
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 06:45:11 -0400 From: Nanne Andersson <nils.g.andersson@mbox330.swipnet.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: subscribe ytsejam (WWW generated email) Message-ID: <199609221045.GAA06716@nermal.catt.ncsu.edu>
A subject to discuss are the importance of Dream Theater, and what influences they might have...
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:03:04 +0000 From: "Jan van Huizen" <aurora@mail.wirehub.nl> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858 Message-ID: <199609221205.MAA07008@poindexter.wirehub.nl>
> From: ytsejam@ax.com > To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> > Subject: YTSEJAM digest 1858
> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:41:58 -0400 > From: kurt@fgallery.com > To: ytsejam@ax.com > Subject: huh?? > Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.16.9.21.-11.41.58.2916992174.345093@bbs.fgallery.com> > > How can i get my post ..a day after i get a reply for it!??? this is > very wierd.. also..wasnt chris poland on megadeth?? he was mentioned > earlier on the jam.. >
Well, Chris Poland was in a band called Damn The Machine, but after their debut album (simply called Damn The Machine, which is a hell of debut album, I definately recommend it) the band split up. Actually, they got rid of their singer/guitarist Dave Clemmons. I don't know if they have a singer yet, but I believe they are now called Mumbo's Brain or something. Could somebody fill me up on this ?
Some other interesting news I read in Aardschok (the biggest metal magzine here in Holland) : Magna Carta is working on a keyboard tribute called 'Steinway to Heaven'. It will be acoustic & classical orientated and some of these musicians will be playing in it : Keith Emerson, Rick Wakeman, Steve Porcaro (Toto) and Patrick Moraz. Hell of a lineup he ?
It also said that new albums by Magellan, Cairo and Shadow Gallery are due to be released early '97.
News for you Wicked Maraya fans out there : they are now called Maraya. Because their initial record company (Mausoleum) got bankrupt, it will now be released by Rising Sun (due to release somewhere in October, it's called 'No Hope for Humanity" btw).
News on Tiles : They will release their 2nd album in January 97. It will be called 'Fence the Clear'.
Too Psychotic Waltz didn't end up to be album of the month. Type O Negative became album of the month, Lemur Voice was on 11th place, just after Pearl Jam. 8th place was a band called Therion. Can someone fill me up on this album ? It got good reviews.
I guess this is it. It's actually one of my longest posts this year. Well, will not ruin any more bandwith. See ya !
Aurora "Creative mother arouse us to know that we be not lost in the sands ..open our eyes"
The Eagle Nature / Cynic
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 11:37:46 GMT From: Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: It Bites! Message-ID: <36312716_000009_OASIS_MAIL@tequila.demon.co.uk>
>Gary Cleghorn said : > >> In all the time i've been reading the jam i've seen plenty about other >> prog style bands but never anything about a great(but now defunct) >> band called IT BITES , they put out three great albums that will >> appeal to some jammers if you have not heard them before your missing >> some great music. > >Yeah ! "It Bites" is one of my favourite bands ! > >> Buy their albums now ...... > >Are they still available ? I don't think so..
Yes, at least in the U.K. they are
There *is* a compilation >album out there, but I didn't get it... Only one track I didn't have yet.
What track is that then?
>> 2. All Around the World > >Very progressive stuff ! Btw, it's "Once Around The World", not "All".
Ooops! I was typing off the top of my head
>If you get *that* one, make sure it's the 'full' version, with the >title-track (14:46) on it (Virgin CDV2456).
Yeah , its a good morning, drag my head up from the eider feathers......:-) >> 3. Eat me in St.Louis > >"Eat Me in St. Louis" features artwork by Roger Dean (Yes/Asia) and >photography by Martyn Dean. It's produced by Mack (Queen) and has more >'rough edges' than it's predecessors. Great stuff ! I've got the limited version of this cd , the one with the 3" extra cd ,tracks are Having a good day,Reprise,Bullet in the barrel.
It also has one of >the most beautiful songs of all times (imo), "The Ice Melts Into Water". >I remember seeing this one MTV, back in the time when they occasionally >played (good) music. MTV also played "Calling All The Heroes" a few >times... > >Also, a live-album was released in '91, after the band split up. >It's called "Thank You And Goodnight". Get this one too, if you get >the chance. I've got this on video ,it was broadcast on U.K tv as part of a season of live broadcasts. Its a great watch. > >Francis Dunnery left "It Bites" to pursue a solo career... His first >solo-album was "Welcome To The Wild Country" and has only been released >by Virgin Japan in '91... Virgin got taken over that year (right?), and >his album was never released in any other country after that... >I got it on import for $ 45 ! It's a really great album, imo :-)
Don't have any cd's by Frank but i've seen most of them in my local record stores from time to time.
Class band .... Class songs
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- gary@tequila.demon.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:16:48 -0400 From: YtseJammr1@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Power of Omens Demos are FREE!!!! Message-ID: <960922091647_527471113@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Hey there fellow YtseJammers!
I submitted a post a little while back about a new Prog band I stumbled upon. These guys are called Power of Omens. They were once charging $7.95 per demo, but now they are giving them out for free!!! The reason they are doing this is so that they can promote the band before they release their first CD sometime early next year! So, if anyone wants a free demo tape, just send your name and address to ProgRocker@aol.com Check these guys out. You can't lose!
FIND ALL YOU NEED IN YOUR MIND IF YOU TAKE THE TIME
YtseJammr1@juno.com, YtseJammr1@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 09:29:25 -0500 From: cote@medcor.mcgill.ca To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Echolyn "When the sweet...", Z, Enchant Message-ID: <199609221326.JAA29662@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>
Hello,
somebody asked about the new (and last) Echolyn. On this CD you will find demo version of song that did not make it on As the world, demo version of new song recorded after as the world, a song recorded for the Genesis tribute on Magna carta, and two live song (Little nonsense and As the world).
Overall, the cd is very depressive. You can feel the guys are really bitter at Sony.
On the back of the CD, you can read "...these song with the exception of the two live tracks, don't have the bugs worked out, and since they never will...well, this is how they sound." "Meaning and the moment: ...This song appears on our first album wich except for 2000 copies, is locked away in a SONY vault until the end of time"
In my opinion, the live tracks are not that great, the demos quality is pour and When the sour turns to sweet is ok. I don't recommend this CD except if you are a die hard Echolyn fan (i tough i was btw!).
I also picked up Z Music for pets (Dweezil and Ahmet Zappa's band) and altough the lyrics are not that great (goofy), but the music is definitly worth listening. I love Dweezil'guitar playing.
I also picked up Enchant, the music is very good, so are the vocals...yeah i like them alot. I think that there next CD is going to be much better (the talent is definitly there).
Sorry for the lack of DT content
Jean-Francois Cote McGill University Montreal, Que
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 09:49:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Daedalus <Mathew.J.Birskovich@williams.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1858 Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.960922094443.29210A-100000@colrain.williams.edu>
Hey all. I'm new on this list and idolize John P for his raging awesome guitar. Malnsteen, McAlpine, Van Halen, etc. are also influences. Can you guys give me an idea (by private email is fine) of some other progressive bands that have guitar of this calibur? No classic rock-type stuff, please. It's good, but not amazing. Opinion. Thanks. Matt B
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:33:01 +0100 (BST) From: Andrew Berry <andrew@aberry.demon.co.uk> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Def Leppard orignal members Message-ID: <Marcel-0.99-0922113301-b49W1kb@aberry.demon.co.uk>
On Sat 21 Sep, Jeff Falk wrote:
> > I know I do this a lot, and I don't do it to annoy the original > poster, but this isn't entirely true. Joe Elliot and Rick Savage were > orignal songwriters, weren't they? > Just a question, not a flame. >
You're right. If you look at the credits for 'On through the night' you'll see that Savage and Elliot feature on most songs. Steve Clark wrote a *lot* of good stuff though...
-- +---- Andrew Berry --------------------- http://www.aberry.demon.co.uk ----+ | Metal Links - 1140 links to 510 metal bands' pages across the internet | +--------------- http://www.aberry.demon.co.uk/metallist/ -----------------+ +- URLs wanted to be added to the list - mailto:andrew@aberry.demon.co.uk -+
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 1859 **************************
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