YTSEJAM Digest 1885
Today's Topics:
1) subscribe
by Bert Biesenbeek <101652.3427@CompuServe.COM>
2) caps :-)
by <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
3) frederico
by <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
4) pop music sucketh... amen
by <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
5) cold endings
by <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
6) WDADU
by gsrockr@en.com (George Sumschidt)
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1884
by Stan <sstys@earthlink.net>
8) Definition of prog-rock
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
9) BUT IT'S *MY* TURN TO FLAME !
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
10)
by
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1881
by Kain <kain@caribe.net>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 1883
by matt rosin <msr7146@tam2000.tamu.edu>
13) ignorance
by "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@lithuania-c.it.earthlink.net>
14) those short haired keyboardists :)
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
15) our happy lil jam
by RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org>
16) Re: Prog??? (fwd)
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 29 Sep 96 06:53:25 EDT
From: Bert Biesenbeek <101652.3427@CompuServe.COM>
To: request <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: subscribe
Message-ID: <960929105325_101652.3427_IHN102-1@CompuServe.COM>
subscribe
e-mail adress : 101652,3427
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:09:01 +2000
From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: caps :-)
Message-ID: <199609291332.QAA17067@pepe.online.ee>
>Maybe you can spell, but you don't seem to have heard of capital
>letters :-)
>Sorry, couldn't resist that ;-)
i think you're right. i guess i'm starting all over again next week,
so i hope the change will include caps too. :-) but not now, as long
as it's sunday.
how to be annoying?
1. WRITE ONLY IN UPPERCASE
2. write only in lowercase
:-)
raitz
How could I forget such a revelation
to love without fear and learn without question
how could I regret the meant occasions
I must begin this day again
Cynic, "How Could I"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:21:41 +2000
From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: frederico
Message-ID: <199609291332.QAA17070@pepe.online.ee>
maybe somebody should unsubscribe him and ban his email address as to
prevent him from subscribing again? being 26 years old and acting
like a 15-years old inverted alternahead makes me feel he's been in a
coma for more than ten years. it's definitely a case of a vegetable.
raitz
How could I forget such a revelation
to love without fear and learn without question
how could I regret the meant occasions
I must begin this day again
Cynic, "How Could I"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:02:21 +2000
From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: pop music sucketh... amen
Message-ID: <199609291332.QAA17073@pepe.online.ee>
>In my opinion PROGRESSIVE MUSIC is GOOD MUSIC, and POP MUSIC IS BAD
>MUSIC.
then your opinion belongs to one of the most narrow-minded people i
have ever had the misfortune to stumble across.
what if every single note somebody somewhere plays is progressive?
can't happen, and i feel very healthy about it. i don't watch
"schindler's list" 20 times in a row, i probably want some amount of
"the quest for the holy grail" in between, you understand? if you
want to wear yourself out, go for it. just don't act as if your word
were the gospel and we should all line up and say, "yes, master".
playing: dream theater, "images & words" ("take the time")
next: motley crue, "dr. feelgood"
raitz
How could I forget such a revelation
to love without fear and learn without question
how could I regret the meant occasions
I must begin this day again
Cynic, "How Could I"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:13:12 +2000
From: <raitz@guvatrak.ee> "Raivo Hool"
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: cold endings
Message-ID: <199609291332.QAA17077@pepe.online.ee>
>>I'm suprised no one's mentioned Pull Me Under.
>If you're speaking of the ending, yes, I also find it to be very
>abrupt. I would call it a cold ending though, not a fade. Cold
>endings aren't so
what do you say about type o negative's "can't lose you"? i think
they cut it down rather abruptly, too.
raitz
How could I forget such a revelation
to love without fear and learn without question
how could I regret the meant occasions
I must begin this day again
Cynic, "How Could I"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:58:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: gsrockr@en.com (George Sumschidt)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: WDADU
Message-ID: <199609291358.JAA23588@en.com>
Great news. I found the cd last night at a store in the
Cleveland area called Borders Book Store. It isn't the
import that I already had. This new one was printed
here in the states. I only paid $10 for it, and it isn't
even used. Thanks go out to "Ibanez" for contacting
me privately with some suggestions on where to find
the disc.
Talk to all of you later, G.
******************************************************************************
Who I am: George H. Sumschidt IRC nick: George or YtseNeon
E-mail: gsrockr@en.com
New quote: "I have been doing much better since they turned up the
voltage on the shock treatments", he said as he flicked his head
rapidly to right with an uncontrollable twitch.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:12:09 +0000
From: Stan <sstys@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1884
Message-ID: <324E4B79.6D7D@earthlink.net>
no dt content but an interesting tid bit to pass on to any drummers in
the south jersey, philly area. october 17, 7:30 pm at sam ash in
cherry hill Eric Singer formerly of KISS will be doing a free clinic.
Eric is a great player and this should be a great clinic.
cheers
stan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:39:32 +-100
From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
To: "'The Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Definition of prog-rock
Message-ID: <01BBAE25.52A52C00@McCoy.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
I've been into prog-rock since I was 8 years old (I'm 25 now), so I
think I know what I'm talking about... Seeing as we keep having these
arguments over what progressive rock is all about, I came up with the
following idea.
I'm gonna put an extra guestbook (LPage.Com) on my homepage you guys
can use for your *own* prog-rock definitions. Just use the 'comment'
field to tell what *your* definition of prog-rock is. It'll be cool to
read about everyone's point of view on this subject, don't you think ?
Maybe I'll try to put together a definition we can *all* live with,
based on the entries in that guestbook. Who knows, maybe we'll end up
with a real Prog-rock FAQ :-) Or is there one already ?
Anyway, the next time someone pretends to know exactly what prog-rock
is, we only have to tell that person to check out the Prog-guestbook !
Sounds like a plan ?
Oh yeah, I'm also putting together a "What is Progressive Rock"-form...
There's a draft of it, on my homepage. DON'T fill it out and send it to
me OR the Jam (God forbid!). I just put it together for fun, and am
still working on it. Mail me if you think I left something out, or if
there's something you want me to take off the form. I could, eventually,
use it for a real Prog-Poll... If only I knew something about automatic
form processing. I'm definately NOT going to process them by hand ! :-)
Let me know what you think.
Mark
_______________________________________________________itchy@dreamt.org__
All of us get lost in the darkness _ _____ ___ _ _ _ _
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars (`)(_```_)/``_)(`)_(`)(`)_(`)
All of us do time in the gutter RUSH | | ) ( ( (_ | _ | \_ /
Dreamers turn to look at the cars THE PASS (_) (_) \___)(_) (_) (__/
____________________________________________________bredius@globalxs.nl__
Maintainer of the Official Freaks and Ytsejam "Most Frequent Poster List"
http://www.globalxs.nl/home/b/bredius/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:38:57 +-100
From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
To: "'The Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Cc: "'fbarbosa@solar.com.br'" <fbarbosa@solar.com.br>
Subject: BUT IT'S *MY* TURN TO FLAME !
Message-ID: <01BBAE25.2167E2E0@McCoy.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
Frederico Mello Simoes Barbosa BITCHED :
> In my opinion PROGRESSIVE MUSIC is GOOD MUSIC, and POP MUSIC IS BAD
> MUSIC.
In *my* opinion you're a fucking idiot. Why don't you have the good
sense to shut the *hell* up. How many flames does that *take* ?
> So, I think RUSH Pre-Signals production is really great.
Shows how much you know about production. Not only do you have shit
for brains, you've also got shit in your ears.
> If you enjoy PROGRESSIVE ROCK as I do, you should buy RUSH
> Pre-Signals production.
If you enjoy getting less than 100 flames (through private e-mail)
a day, you should shut the fuck up. Mine is on it's way, along with a
copy of *this* letter.
> For people who prefer POP MUSIC, I do recommend post-signals stuff.
People who prefer pop music, probably won't like Rush at all.
> I'm a DT fan, but I don't like the 80's ROCK. I DO HATE BANDS LIKE U2,
> THE CURE, THE SMITHS, JESUS AND MARY CHAIN. THAT'S THE REASONS THAT I
> HATE POST-SIGNALS STUFF : THEY SOUND LIKE THE 80'S ROCK, maybe a
> crossover between U2 and POLICE...
We don't fucking care what you do or do NOT like. Stop shouting, you
fucking idiot.
Know what ? I'm gonna forward your messages to "The National Midnight
Star" !!! Doesn't that list have about 3000 subscribers ? >:)
> The only thing I like in the 80's is the HEAVY STUFF : JOE SATRIANI,
> YNGWIE MALMSTEEN, STEVE VAI, STEVE MORSE, METTALICA, IRON MAIDEN,
> LIVING COLOUR.
Isn't it *Metallica* ? Check your fucking spelling, moron.
> People who have had read DT FAQ should know that KELVIN MOORE was
> kicked out of DT because he was not interested anymore in Progressive
> Music.
Wasn't that Calvin More ?
> Well, the term "Progressive" makes me feel really good !
> If music is not Progressive, then it's rubish.
You are fucking rubbish. If the term "Progressive" makes you feel
*that* good, why don't you just jerk off while listening to "Tales
------------------------------
> Maybe I'm not a DT fan or not a RUSH fan either.
Your *neither* ! You're just another 'mindcrimer' ! FUCK YOU !
> I'm a PROGRESSIVE ROCK fan. PROGRESSIVE ROCK makes me crazy !!!
Apparently...
> DREAM THEATER is only a Progressive-Metal band like several that I
> know... They are many Progressive Rock bands as good as DREAM THEATER.
Join *their* mailinglists and leave us the fuck alone !
> Well, I really don't care about ALTERNATIVE. I HATE NIRVANA, and think
> KURT COBAIN is an IDIOT. I'm glad he's commited suicide, because now
> the world is a much better place to live.
Now I really want you to fucking DIE ! I've never *ever* liked Nirvana,
but *I* was shocked when I heard about Kurt's suicide. Anyone who is
glad about someone else's suicide is a complete and utter piece of
worthless shit and deserves to go to hell.
> "PROGRESSIVE MUSIC" MEANS "COMPLEX MUSIC".
You ignorant bastard. You don't have A CLUE as to what progressive
music is all about.
> It is crap, because it's commercial and sounds like 80's style.
> And the most creative Rock Style were made in the 60's and the 70's.
You are so incredibly pathetic, and you don't even realize it.
> I'm 26 years old.
I could kinda understand this ignorant crap coming from a troubled
teenager, but from a 26 year-old ? You *ARE* a piece of shit !
Btw, I'm 25, and I'm not proud of my behavior either, right now...
I'm usually not like this at all... Oh well...
> TECNO MUSIC IS FOR PLAYBOYS.
~~~~~~~~
Go buy one, and play with yer weener ! Stop bugging us !
> IF DREAM THEATER RELEASE A TECNO ALBUM, I WON'T BUY IT....
I really hope the next one *will* be a tecHno album, if only to getting
you off this list !
Skadz said :
> 3. Do not start / participate in / complain about long off-topic
> discussions. These have gotten WAY out of hand in the past.
> If one starts, I will post once saying to stop and take it to
> private email, anyone continuing the discussion will
> recieve a warning. These include such topics as God, NIN, Blind
> Melon, bands selling out, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I vagely remember something about 2 warnings and getting kicked off
the list...
Bitchy Itchy
_______________________________________________________itchy@dreamt.org__
All of us get lost in the darkness _ _____ ___ _ _ _ _
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars (`)(_```_)/``_)(`)_(`)(`)_(`)
All of us do time in the gutter RUSH | | ) ( ( (_ | _ | \_ /
Dreamers turn to look at the cars THE PASS (_) (_) \___)(_) (_) (__/
____________________________________________________bredius@globalxs.nl__
Maintainer of the Official Freaks and Ytsejam "Most Frequent Poster List"
http://www.globalxs.nl/home/b/bredius/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 11:16:59 -0400
From: Kain <kain@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1881
Message-ID: <324E92EB.6D75@caribe.net>
Frederico Mello Simoes Barbosa wrote:
> >I HAVE read the dt faq. And in NO place it says he wanted to become
> >Industrial and TeCHno. Have you heard his work after he left the band?
> >I guess he IS techno.
>
> No, I haven't. But I tell you what : I DON'T LISTEN TO TECNO (ARGHHH....)
>
> TECNO MUSIC IS FOR PLAYBOYS.
>
> IF DREAM THEATER RELEASE A TECNO ALBUM, I WON'T BUY IT....
So if you haven't even *heard* it, then why the fuck are you talking
all that bullshit about Kev?!
> It is crap, because it's commercial and sounds like 80's style.
> And the most creative Rock Style were made in the 60's and the 70's.
You are seriously fucked up. I guess you fell off the doctor's hand
when you were born.
-- /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | "Best way to love anything, is keeping in mind you might lose it." | | "Spread before me is my soul, I'm learning to live." Dream Theater | | mailto:kain@caribe.net | | Visit the official page of the world's best band, Dream Theater at | | http://www.rsabbs.com/dt | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:30:13 -0500 From: matt rosin <msr7146@tam2000.tamu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 1883 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19960929085112.1a2765b0@tam2000.tamu.edu>
>I HATE NIRVANA, and think KURT COBAIN is an IDIOT. >I'm glad he's commited suicide, because now the world is >a much better place to live.
dude, who in the fuck do you think you are? i can't believe that you would be glad of someone's death simply because you didn't like their music. it's people like you that are making the jam such a flame-war shithole lately. whether you like someone's music or not, it's ALWAYS horrible when someone creative dies. i know many people that loved nirvana not because they were popular but because they genuinely loved and were moved by their music. while i never liked nirvana much, and i know a lot of other people on the jam didn't (it's very obvious from all the bitching everybody does), some of us at least were human enough to regret the death of someone who made a contribution to society, whether or not we liked what that contribution was. it no longer suprises me that some of the people on the jam have no respect for other jammers, since you don't even have any respect for the dead.
matt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ m a t t r o s i n / imagescape@tamu.edu S U R R E A L I T Y / http://http.tamu.edu:8000/~msr7146/imagescape/ dark ethereal music / SURREALITY II AVAILABLE NOW ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:40:22 +0000 From: "Andrew Miller" <subtlerage@lithuania-c.it.earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ignorance Message-ID: <199609291532.IAA03059@armenia.it.earthlink.net>
On 28 Sep 96 at 23:34, Frederico spewed forth the following words:
> Well, the term "Progressive" makes me feel really good ! > If music is not Progressive, then it's rubish. > > Maybe I'm not a DT fan or not a RUSH fan either. > > I'm a PROGRESSIVE ROCK fan. PROGRESSIVE ROCK makes me crazy !!!
yep. and ignorant, narrow minded, now-it-all jack asses make me crazy. if you want to give your opinions about music in a respectful manner dude, that's cool. but saying "if music is not progressive, then it's rubish" is just plain stupid. so far in the posts i've read of yours you have:
1. pissed off alot of people on the jam 2, made yourself look like a total moron
so what are your options?
1. shut up 2. quit posting 3. stick your thumb up your ass and cluck like a chicken
this isn't a forum for slamming all types of music. no one expects anyone else to like the same type of music as themselvs. but a little respect and restraint would be nice. (btw, option #3 isn't supposed to make sense. i just like saying it. :))
> Well, I really don't care about ALTERNATIVE. > I HATE NIRVANA, and think KURT COBAIN is an IDIOT. > I'm glad he's commited suicide, because now the world is > a much better place to live.
and i think you're an ass. ah, i see, once again someone makes music that you don't like so they're an idiot and what, now they deserve to die?
you, my friend, are a, ah hell, i won't even say it here. if you'd like to hear what i really *truly* think of you, in uncut, uncensored terms, email me.
> It is crap, because it's commercial and sounds like 80's style. > And the most creative Rock Style were made in the 60's and the 70's.
ok. welcome to Dumbasses 101. the above statement is an OPINION. can we say OPINION? very good. now, an opinion does not equal fact. especially when it's being formed by someone with as narrow of a mind as yours. just quit posting this garbage. you're not impressing anyone. people will go on listening to what they want to listen to without your <gasp> Holy Opinion.
> IF DREAM THEATER RELEASE A TECNO ALBUM, I WON'T BUY IT....
oh just shut the hell up already.
(sorry to anyone else. this guy is getting on my nerves) Andrew
Andrew Miller - Keyboardist/Vocalist - SubtleRage http://members.gnn.com/subtlerage - subtlerage@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:39:47 -0500 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: those short haired keyboardists :) Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960929153947.0069fb28@mail.inlink.com>
> > > And as for the Moore vs. Sherinan bout, I really like Sherinan. >Why? No, I did not see him live, yes, all i've heard is ACoS, but he is the >one member of the band I can relate to. Why? you ask. HE'S GOT SHORT >HAIR!! LONG LIVE PEOPLE WITH SHORT HAIR!!!!!!
ah, but isnt the news on the home front that Kevin (gasp) shaved his head? :) i actually wouldnt mind seeing him go psycho a bit.. word is he's getting some "industrial" vibes. i think that'd rock... heavy, angry, i'll-kill-you music really makes me feel happy :)
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:42:30 -0500 From: RipZero <ripzero@dreamt.org> To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: our happy lil jam Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960929154230.006894b0@mail.inlink.com>
> >Okay, listen...I just don't want this anymore.....STOP SENDING >IT!!!!!!!!!! > >PS-- IF IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH DT, ID KEEP IT.......... >
oh come on,,, dont you know when you sign on to a mailing list about a certain topic the LAST thing on the list talked about is that topic? i do suggest you hang around though, we are all DT fans and theres a lot of great recommendations of other bands people can give you, as well as getting some killer DT tapes and cds you wont find anywhere else. sure, we may bitch and rant a lot, but hey, we're YTSEJAMMERS. its in our job description.
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:01:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> To: Yitz-see-jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Prog??? (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.960929120100.17853C-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
You want to know what's prog rock? Well, here ya go. :)
mike, aka syrinx. (c) 1996 Happy Fun Ball, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>How exactly do you define progressive rock?
I loved this reply which appeared in the Letters column in the September 1993 issue of Keyboard magazine:
To be classified as prog rock, music must adhere to the following criteria:
1. Songs can be no less than seven minutes in length, except in the case of the prog rock/techno crossover, in which case five minutes is acceptable.
2. Anything in 4/4 is immediately disqualified.
3. The composition must contain at least three of the following instruments: Mellotron, Hammond B-3, Moog Modular (Minimoog acceptable) or any synth made before 1984 and weighing more than 100 lbs. Instruments must also go out of tune after every third song.
4. Performers must be able to play in several time signatures at once, with no one part recognizable as a singable melody.
5. A minimum of five key changes is required for each five minutes of music.
7. Try to find a beat. If you can't, it's prog rock.
8. If the composition wanders aimlessly, it's definitely either prog rock or Dave Stewart on painkillers.
9. If anyone under the age of 30 likes it, it is not prog rock.
10. And finally, if you can dance to it, it isn't prog rock.
Steven W. Wagenheim Roselle, New Jersey
This response is from from the Letters column in the October 1993 issue of Keyboard:
If a band meets five or more of the following criteria, they're prog:
1. At least one member uses Greek mythology or Zen koans as lyrics - at any rate, nobody knows what the hell the singer is talking about.
2. A typical song lasts longer than your average shower.
3. On many songs, each musician plays in an entirely different meter and/or key.
5. The keyboardist has more synthesizers than fingers.
6. Bill Bruford was a drummer at some point.
7. Their album covers depict strange animals crawling over weird geological formations into which blue-pigmented children have carved stairways.
8. They can sell out an arena and still have more lights on stage than people in the audience.
9. Rolling Stone and Phil Collins would both rather burn alive than hear this group's latest album.
Terrell Miller Norcross, Georgia
And I can't forget Keith Emerson's reply: "It is music that does progress. It takes an idea and develops it, rather than just repeat it ... Progressive music takes a riff, turns it inside out, plays it upside down [and] the other way around, and explores its potential."
Dave Stewart also wrote a reply to this question, but I haven't been able to unearth it yet.
Best, Chloe
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 1885 **************************
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