YTSEJAM Digest 2448
Today's Topics:
1) DT NEW ALBUM
by Marco Nuno da Silva Goncalves <i23039@caravela.di.fc.ul.pt>
2) SG, number of chords
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
3) Amsterdam
by Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
4) Re: A pleasant shade of gray
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
5) Time Cigs, Grosse Saints, Hell Marches
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
6) Re: A pleasant shade of gray
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
7) Re: DT NEW ALBUM
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
8) Readers Awards, Venomosity
by Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu>
9) Nuno last night...
by Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com>
10)
by Lars Hellsten <larsh@ionsys.com>
11) Geoff Tate on ABC!
by Anthony G LaSorsa <agls@christa.unh.edu>
12) Re: Ryche bashing
by petedz@interaccess.com
13) religion
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com>
14) More Fates...
by "Mike Patrick" <meatrick@iquest.net>
15) Re: A pleasant shade of gray
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:44:47 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Marco Nuno da Silva Goncalves <i23039@caravela.di.fc.ul.pt>
To: DT mailing list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DT NEW ALBUM
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970411094316.3981C-100000@caravela.di.fc.ul.pt>
I heard that the new DT album will a 2 CD album.
Is that true?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 01:48:03 -0700
From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: SG, number of chords
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970411014759.00697600@cats.ucsc.edu>
I think that in a song of limited length (i.e. under 8 minutes or so) only
a few chords and/or riffs are necessary. If every band tries to use 20
riffs per song, sooner or later they'll run out of riffs and start
repeating themselves. I'd rather have fewer riffs per song and more total
songs.
I think that's why a lot of prog bands seem to lose their sparkle after a
few albums, since they use up all of their mucial ideas in one or two
albums, they have nothing left after that. Member changes help a lot since
the infusion of new blood into the mix means more ideas. That's why Yes
has continued as long as it has. And I think that Symphony X, because they
keep closer to a single sound and song idea (the neoclassical metal vein,
similar soloing style from song to song, etc) will continue to sound fresh.
It also makes me a bit worried for DT in the future. Since they explore a
larger musical spectrum, they are more likely to run out of ideas sooner.
If they eventually did an album that sounded like Images & Words, it would
sound a lot more repetitive if they did it five years down the road than if
they had done the exact same album right after I & W. We would expect to
have "progressed" more over the intervening time, and the returning to an
older style to explore it further would be seen as "regressing" or "selling
out" by many, especially those who prefer I & W as their album of choice.
I could continue, but I feel I may start repeating myself, rather than
progressing the idea ;)
__ /\ __
__\/__\/__ ~Chris
\_||_/
/__||__\ http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/
// \ | \\
\|
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:50:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
To: YtseJam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Amsterdam
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.08-0411085020-0b0rZWN@mor.apsoft.co.uk>
I fly out to Amsterdam tomorrow (1 M and 2 Rs? I could never remember
how to spell that stupid word).
I'll be meeting some Dutch jammers and at least one American jammer, and
I'll be going to the DT show on Monday.
I would ask Derek to sign my jacket, but he'd probably say "no" because
he didn't actually play on it ;-)
Graham
-- Graham Borland Email : gborland@apsoft.co.uk WWW : http://www.apsoft.co.uk Alternative Publishing Ltd Tel : 0141 418 0881 30 Clyde Place, Glasgow G5 8AQ Fax : 0141 418 0889------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 04:31:09 -0400 (EDT) From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: A pleasant shade of gray Message-ID: <01IHKE6AK8BMBNJ6HE@alma.edu>
In regards to Anton Max's comments about Fates Warning and how it takes a while to "get it", I definitely know what you're talking about. I found your comments interesting, since I personally have to listen to most new music a number of times before I "get it". This was certainly the case with DT. I was assuming that it would also be the case with FW the first few times I listened to them. However, I've had most of these albums for over a year, and I've listened to all of them a good 10-15 times, and I still don't get it. In fact, I find very little to like about them. This is not a knock, I know that they're talented, but I just don't hear any groove or any emotion, and I need at least one of the two to keep my interest. In relation to what I said above, I've also find that on the rare occasions that I *do* like something the first time I hear it, I usually end up getting sick of it after a couple of listens. Does anyone else find this to be true for them? -Clark
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 02:05:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu> To: Dream Thezbians <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Time Cigs, Grosse Saints, Hell Marches Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.970411014947.67528G-100000@dante25.u.washington.edu>
> From: Mark Hatch-Miller <ace@onfire.net> > Subject: RE: time sigs > > Last time I checked, hex means six.. and in 4/4 time, that would equal > 24 notes, not 12.. just wanted to clear that up. :)
I don't know enough to refute you. It's like asking someone "do I go left at this corner?" and getting a reply of "right!"
By this I mean that from a music theory point of view, terms like "duplet" and "triplet" most often refer to the rhythm. A series of beats as opposed to note-groupings. Instead of saying "a double-triplet, you know, repeated, like in a 6/8 time sig" people might condense the idea and say "a hextuplet." This can be terribly confusing if you aren't paying close attention.
On occasion I hear musicians saying things like, "aha, little groups of three notes repeated over and over, a pattern of triplets..." or sometimes "so you play six notes descending, over and over, really fast? hextuplets? like Yngwie?" More often than using the term "sextuplet," which is how I've heard six-note runs are supposed to be termed, people will say "hex." What I meant was simply "three notes per beat, four beats per measure." To date I don't know which, hex or sex, is more correct, but I've heard in some cultures you can be hexed for even thinking about sex.
---- > From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> > Subject: Guitar mags, Manson, etc... > > And as for what Bafu said: > >> And if you're going to go see "The Saint," for hell's sake cover your >> ears when the Russian Mob chases him down into the parking garage. The >> tire screeching is just excruciating... > > And cover your eyes for the first 2hrs 10min. Oh wait, that's the whole > movie! IT SUCKED! Use your $8 to see Grosse Pointe Blank, much better > movie, and it doesn't have any dumb Russians. Just a dumb Bulgarian...
Excuse me, but that's just not a fair comparison. "The Saint" could never be as incredible a movie as "Grosse Point Blank" simply because it's lacking in a certain ingredient: Minnie Driver. Then again, Marilyn Manson isn't in either of them, so I guess we don't have any real masterpieces in the house this evening.
Okay, so does anyone else think the "Hell March" track from Red Alert is exactly like White Lion's "She's Got Everything?"
Bafu Vai
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 03:25:39 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: A pleasant shade of gray Message-ID: <199704111025.DAA06704@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, CLARK ABEL said: >out; from what I've heard so far they sound a lot better. What do I mean by >better? On the three albums I have, (NE, PS, and IO) I find Alder's vocals to >be completely devoid of any melody. It sounds to me like he's just, well, >noodling aimlessly (I'm a guitarist, I don't know what it's called when a >vocalist "noodles"). I haven't listened to enough yet to be able to say >anything more, but he just sounds better to me on this one.
Ahhh... and so the Fates Warning neo-nate speaks... and thus... his opinions have been rendered null and void by himself...
Noodling aimlessly... I guess he is in Point of View, Eye to Eye?? So, you expect him to sound like every other progmetal singer I assume... that's what makes him unique, his singing style... mayhaps you should take another listen young one... for the force is not with you yet...
But alas, it is futile to banter with one who does not envision that which is the true Fates...
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% *$%&%#$* Global Micro Solutions #$#$#@@# *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$ #$@#$#@# http://www.gmsnet.com/progmetal @#$@##@$
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 03:32:08 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT NEW ALBUM Message-ID: <199704111032.DAA06742@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Marco Nuno da Silva Goncalves said: >I heard that the new DT album will a 2 CD album. >Is that true?
No, you are mistaken, it's going to be a double sided DVD disk, with live video... and CD-ROM Interactive enhancements... which a game!
:)
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% *$%&%#$* Global Micro Solutions #$#$#@@# *$*$*$*# Reality Enhancement Software - Engineering Reality *$&#*#@$ #$@#$#@# http://www.gmsnet.com/progmetal @#$@##@$
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 05:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Borzilleri <magellan@u.washington.edu> To: Dream Thezbians <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Readers Awards, Venomosity Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.970411052434.65754H-100000@dante18.u.washington.edu>
"Sleep? Dreams? A YtseJedi craves not these things..."
You can do Manson and Itchy 'till you're blue in the face, but when it comes down to the real deal, the only authentic ranting is what's on Your mind.
---- > From: Kramer <CK78729@ltu.edu> > Subject: coupla things > > If you think the readers awards in guitar mags are pretty bad, Lars > Ulrich just won best drummer for 1996. Best bass player was Gene > Simmons. Yeah right. It bugs me that these voters don't even bother > to consider actual talent when they vote for this shit.
I agree. But.
Those polls are based solely on the number of reader's votes. If the majority of the readers enjoy Lars Ulrich, he's going to win. There is no standard to judge anything by, the final decision is simply a matter of addition. I've never seen a contest in any magazine in which the voting is based on talent, because it would require a voting panel of music professors, perhaps several bands in each category rating the top players in their field, bigtime clinicians who get around and know everyone (like perhaps Billy Sheehan), etc. Basically there wouldn't be any casual radio-listeners or guitar hackers like myself doing the voting.
Trying to grant awards based PURELY on musical talent has so far only been accomplished by sitting everyone down at once and hearing them each play a selection of similar pieces. On a nationwide or global scale, this has primarily been done only in the world of classical music. (like for the piano, the Chopin Competition held every year in Warsaw, Poland. now THAT is where one can hear some of the truly greatest pianists on the planet.) I can't imagine how such a thing would be accomplished with a group of, say, prog-metal vocalists. I just think it's a really tricky issue and overall don't understand how any magazine can claim to possess the ability to make such judgments. As far as I can tell it's always been awards based on favorites, regardless of the magazine saying "vote for the BEST blah blah blah."
For there to be a single "best" in a single category of music/instrument, the competitors have to be compared all at once, pitted against one another. Not this "group decision" of who's displayed the most radical chops over the past year. A whole YEAR, you believe that? With that kind of window, how can anyone NOT be noticed or liked by at least SOMEONE?
"The award for Best Roadie Picking His Nose Behind The Lead Guitarist's Rig goes to..."
> -C# (no, not C-SHARP, it's C#)
Where were you when we needed you way back when? :)
---- > From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2437 > > This has been a test of the emergency wakeup call system.
There's an uncanny amount of this going around. No more tests or beeping unless there really is an earthquake or flood or some other...hey... "Flood"...another upcoming Minnie Driver movie...
Now before you slander me for being a sexist bastard because I made a comment about a wommm, a woommmmm, dammit I can't even say it anymore, re-read the following posts to brush up on your verbal poison.
---- > From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org> > Subject: Re: ACOS > > > any jammers have any info??? > > i have two. > > 1. read the faq. > > 2. understand the faq. > > any questions? no? good.
Owww! Like when the thorns from the rose-stem get right between your molars and then snap off and get lodged back there, then the floss gets cut 'cause its so sharp, and you're bleedin' all over the place and...
> From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@digital.dreamt.org> > Subject: Re: This Marilyn Manson Crap > > The rest of us are all pretty clear as to what's been going on, because > we actually read the jams, rather than skimming it looking for people > to vent on. > > :ring: :ring: Hear that? That's the clue phone. It's for you.
Do people need to return fire upon one another a la Itchy vs. Scott to be noticed as a destructive force and told to lighten up? What about one-way tromping? Why didn't this stuff happen to me when I first got here?
Swearing his skin is inside out,
Bafu Vai
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 07:50:33 -0700 From: Andrew Forcier <andrew.t.forcier@prudential.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Nuno last night... Message-ID: <199704111249.AA03316@gateway2.prudential.com>
Hiya! Well, suffice it to say someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed last night. I haven't seen this ambivalent a performer since I saw the Chili Peppers six years ago. Nuno was pissed at something, lord knows what though. The band came on an hour late after the longest stage break I have ever seen. Why on Earth would you only have one guitar tech for four guitarists?! He played an awesome show, though, and he talked to the crowd a little, but I won't go through it all unless you e-mail me, just a couple high points: A girl in the crowd asked if Nuno could do a solo for her birthday. Nuno replies "Like what? Midnight Express?" And she said yes. Nuno says "Have you heard me play it before?" Again she says yes. Nuno: "Well then, you're all set." And played I Wonder. heheh... Nuno: "Gonna play another song off the album. This is called Fine By Me." Literally four people clapped. Nuno: "Hey now, don't get all excited." I saw some guy in a DT shirt, but didn't see him after the show in the mix. Got two of Nuno's picks as well. And miracles never cease: I got my friend to come to the show with me, and I didn't even have to pay him... :) He actually enjoyed it a lot too! For those who are wondering where the DT content is, my heartfelt apologies. Oh wait, I'm a heartless bastard... :)
Andrew
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:18:12 -0400 From: Lars Hellsten <larsh@ionsys.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970411081759.007c9660@ionsys.com>
> To anyone that is bashing Ryche: people complained when Promised >Land came out... said it was too wussy and laid-back.. the guys didn't >just let it all loose and rock enough. Well, they delivered the product >that satisfies all those complainers. HitnF has some hard-hitting, >rocking tunes on it... and now they get slagged for going 'alternative' >or 'grunge'.
I was not one of those people. I really liked Promised Land when it came out. I' like all of their previous albums as well. But I don't like HitNF. I just think they could've done a lot better. Personally I don't even think the lyrics are that great. This album just strikes me as a collection of boring songs.
> Anyway, if any Ryche fans have complaints, just go catch the next >tour. The Queensryche tour for PL was by far the best concert I have been >to (including DT/FW), and I wasn't even that fond of PL at the time.
Same here. Even though I don't like the new album that much, I can't wait to see them live again, 'cause they always put on an awesome show.
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Anthony G LaSorsa <agls@christa.unh.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Geoff Tate on ABC! Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91a.970411092702.4173D-100000@christa.unh.edu>
Hey there! Does anyone have a copy of the show Politically Incorrect with Geoff Tate on it? I tried to find the show in my area but it wasn't on. IF anybody has a copy, could you email me? Well set up a trade of some sort! Thanks, Tony
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:27:57 -0500 From: petedz@interaccess.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Ryche bashing Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970411132757.006de95c@pop.interaccess.com>
>Guys, it is still Queensryche... they still have their own >distinct sound that a lot of us have embraced since the early days. They >do keep changing (progressing, regressing, whatever) but they still are >writing tunes with thought-provoking lyrics, good musicianship, and the >vocals of one of the better singers in rock.
What were the signature elements of Queensryche's sound? To me, they were: (1) Geoff Tate's over the top vocal style and his willingness to really hang it out there and take chances (see Roads to Madness, Screaming in Digital, Suite Sister Mary). On the Building Empires tour, Geoff got a 15 minute ovation after Suite Sister here in Chicago. (2) Progressive and art rock influenced *heavy*metal* song writing. Pink Floyd is also a strong influence (see My Empty Room/Eyes of a Stranger(intro) and Silent Lucidity for the more obvious Floyd stuff). (3) Iron Maiden influenced twin guitar harmonies with competent, flashy soloing. Guitar solos are cool and were an important part of Queensryche's sound. Guitar solos are cool. Guitar solos are cool! (sorry, couldn't help myself) (2) Well produced harmony backing vocals.
Umm... I don't hear any of that stuff on HitNF.
> To anyone that is bashing Ryche: people complained when Promised >Land came out...
Actually, fans were already disappointed by the commercially motivated Empire. The only thing that saved Empire from being a waste of plastic was that the commercially viable music of the time happened to be damned cool, but Empire was very decidedly a sell out.
> said it was too wussy and laid-back.. the guys didn't >just let it all loose and rock enough. Well, they delivered the product >that satisfies all those complainers. HitnF has some hard-hitting, >rocking tunes on it... and now they get slagged for going 'alternative' >or 'grunge'.
Our definitions of hard-hitting and rocking do not even vaguely resemble one another. 'The Needle Lies' fit that description. IMO, HitNF doesn't.
>The Queensryche tour for PL was by far the best concert I have been >to (including DT/FW), and I wasn't even that fond of PL at the time.
Did you see Queensryche on the Building Empires tour? The PL tour was a faint shadow of it. The only enjoyable parts were the repeats. That ridiculous staged 'Promised Land' theater piece was waaaay too long and annoying.
Ever since I heard 'The Lady Wore Black' on the radio in '86. (yes, young 'uns, they did play stuff like that on the radio in those days) I've been one of the most rabid 'Ryche fans I know of. I have the Empire poster, the band's autographs, and photo's of the band from an in-store framed on my wall. I've learned a pretty good percentage of the guitar parts from the tunes on their good albums.
That doesn't make my opinion worth more than anyone else's, but at least it means that I've thought it through. :)
-- Pete Dziadzka
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:42:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: religion Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970411093644.13239B-100000@bdmserver>
The jam is not the place for religion, unless it relates to a DT song.
I dont want to see a bunch of pro Christianity, nor do I want to see a bunch of anti-Christianity or crap about Satanism.
For some people religion is a big part of their lives. It just doesn't belong here.
Let's try not to let this get out of hand. It wont be long until we are all talking about the new Fates cd. I also think there is a new Dokken cd coming out in April as well. I know there are some Dokken fans here...
A question for all, what are the chances that on the 22nd that the local cd stores actually have a copy of the new Fates??????
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty pdaugher@bdmserver.mcl.bdm.com | |=======================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" --X-Files | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:53:34 -0000 From: "Mike Patrick" <meatrick@iquest.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: More Fates... Message-ID: <199704111352.GAA24130@odin.ax.com>
> I haven't listened to much of it yet, but people who have been turned > off to this band by Alder's vocals like I have may want to check this album > out; from what I've heard so far they sound a lot better. What do I mean by > better? On the three albums I have, (NE, PS, and IO) I find Alder's vocals to > noodling aimlessly (I'm a guitarist, I don't know what it's called when a
> vocalist "noodles"). I haven't listened to enough yet to be able to say
I would definately agree. Alder uses the strangest phrasing of any vocalist I've ever heard. At times, I think that's a weakness of the lyrics - not that they're bad, they just don't lend themselves well to being sung. It's too bad. I like Fates instrumentally, but I can't listen to them. Same thing for Ivanhoe and Superior, but for different reasons. What is it with German prog singers trying to pierce my eardrums?!?
Mike mepatrick@iquest.net
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:37:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: A pleasant shade of gray Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970411112839.3388A-100000@unix17.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, CLARK ABEL wrote: > and I've listened to all of them a good 10-15 times, and I still don't get it. > In fact, I find very little to like about them. This is not a knock, I know > that they're talented, but I just don't hear any groove or any emotion, and I > need at least one of the two to keep my interest.
Well, that's too bad. When I'm alone listening to, say, At Fates Hands, I just want the whole world to be there with me and get what I get out of it. It's lonely, "getting" fates...
> In relation to what I said above, I've also find that on the rare > occasions that I *do* like something the first time I hear it, I usually end > up getting sick of it after a couple of listens. Does anyone else find this > to be true for them?
This often happens when I'm stuck in a situation where I have no choice but to listen to something I don't want to listen to. Most stuff I can force myself to find something to like about. But as soon as the immediate need to live with it is over, I'd usually be happy never to listen to it again. Of course, sometimes it works out differently. I had to force myself to like Prince because my best friend plays him all the time in the car, and I'm kinda glad I did, cuz he's got some cool tunes.
And it suddenly occurs to me that I entirely misread your sentence. Yes, it is often the case that when I like something the first time I hear it, I get sick of it pretty quickly. Metallica's black album comes to mind.
-maximilian
Anton Max MadMax+@cmu.edu http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2448 **************************
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