YTSEJAM Digest 2428
Today's Topics:
1) Reviews.......
by "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
2) Jp Video
by Robert Barker <robert.barker@dol.net>
3) Re: Politically Inconspicuous
by Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
4) KM or DS
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
5) WHAT?!
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
6) Kevin Moore's not in DT anymore????
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
7) GT
by sir@micron.net
8) Re: Kevin's motivations
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
9)
by
10) Re: Politically Incorrect
by Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
11) Victor II
by Cygnus <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
12) Thanks in Advance!!
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
13) Re: MORE fractions!!!
by Symbolic66@aol.com
14) Re: Specific Reasons for 4/4 then 5/4
by Symbolic66@aol.com
15) Re: Rush tribute Album
by Symbolic66@aol.com
16) Re: fractions and stuff
by Symbolic66@aol.com
17) Re: time sigs
by Symbolic66@aol.com
18) Re: sig debate
by Symbolic66@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 08:58:59 -0500
From: "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Reviews.......
Message-ID: <33465AA3.4DA7@earthlink.net>
> Tyketto
Never heard their music but i believe its 80's warrant type stuff.
> Cairo
Heavy keyboard dominated prog band. Not too thrilling...kinda slow and
boring old school prog like Pink Floyd I guess??
> Cacophony-Go Off
> Helstar-lots of stuff
You MUST buy CACOPHONY's 2 albums and HELSTAR "A Distant Thunder" and
"Nosferatu"...these four albums are BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!
If I had to pick one of these four it would be "Nosferatu"..simply
dazzling neo-classical riffs throughout, great singer with crystal
highs.....plus its a concept album on Dracula!!!!
I have about 450 CD's in my collection and if I had to pick ten discs
for eternity "Nosferatu" would be one of them. I just cannot praise
this album enough..I run out of words to adequately describe it.
cheers,
Carlo (aka fates, aka YtseSatan)
--
_
__| |__
"When you know that your time is close at hand |__ __|
maybe then you'll begin to understand | |
Life down here is just a strange illusion." | |
|_|
--IRON MAIDEN (Hallowed Be Thy Name)
"Neo-classical, progressive, melodic metal"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 09:45:02 -0500
From: Robert Barker <robert.barker@dol.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Jp Video
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970405094502.006935a8@dol.net>
Someone asked about the John Petrucci video...
The video is great. It is also two hours long. In the video John talks
about stretching and various other useful warm up techniques. He also
shows lots of exercises on working on various technical aspects of guitar
playing...such as sweep picking, legato playing, speed picking, and picking
through arpeggios. John also demonstrates some points he makes by doing
some improv solos and such. Those solos contain some of the hippest
melodic lines around so I advise anyone to check it out. Its called Rock
Discipline.
Robert Barker
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 11:21:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Politically Inconspicuous
Message-ID: <199704051621.LAA03370@cliff.cris.com>
D-Man wrote:
>I can't believe I wasted a half hour of my life waiting to glean some
>pearl of wisdom from the step-uncle of grunge. Except for one off-topic
>comment about e-coli-tainted beef in Seattle, Geoff Tate sat in apparent
>bewilderment and disillusionment at host Bill Maher and his fellow
>panelists.
Off-topic? They were talking about tainted strawberries coming from Mexico,
and how the agricultural inspectors and related parties were being fired in
Mexico because of the incident, while the American inspectors were not.
Geoff brought up another instance of tainted food, that being beef tainted
with E. Coli, and raised the issue that perhaps there aren't enough
inspectors to properly do the job and prevent these sorts of incidents from
ever again occuring. Then panelist Dana (last names escapes me) the
California politician added to Geoff's comment that Europeans have
medication over there that is not allowed in the US because the US
Department of Agriculture (or whoever) is too preoccupied with whether or
not these medications do what they're supposed, and hence too many people
are working in an area that's not very critical, leaving a much more
important task of keeping people from being poisoned understaffed....or
something like that.
Sound on-topic to me. :)
>He looked baked and bored, and that's kinda how I felt after enduring this
>show.
No kidding. I never watched the show before, and if that was a
representative episode, I doubt I'll be watching it again except when JLB is
on. :)
-Rick Audet
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 10:31:53 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: KM or DS
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970405163153.009c3eb4@enteract.com>
>I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good
>work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of
>anything.
Jesus. Why don't you give him a chance? He's been with DT for a
fraction of the time KM was, and he's already at :LEAST as good.
>The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but
>the he just doesn't click like Kevin.
How many times have you seen him? And when you did see him, how
long had he been with the band? It takes a while to get comfortable with a
new musical situation. If I put you in DT, it would take you more than 2
years to "Click" with the band. Having seen DT live in person with KM, and
with DS, I think that DS is perfect for the job. He's a different style
than KM... KM is more like Emerson's lighter delicate work... he's not a
balls to the walls player. DS likes to hit harder, but knows when to chill.
I don't think you've had enough exposure to DS to say "He doesn't click like
Kevin".
>Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his
>piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this
>mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left
>in the crowd.
As this is opinion, I won't argue with it. I just hope you'll open
your mind by the time Derek starts pounding out a bunch of the songwriting.
I personally in my opinion, disagree with every point you made here (but I'm
not flaming you, or arguing over opinions.)
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 10:38:52 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: WHAT?!
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970405163852.00a41004@enteract.com>
>Tomorrow, Al DiMeola.
>
>Dale R. Newberry
A CLINIC?!?!?!?! WHERE?!? Can you video it?
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 10:56:05 -0600
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Kevin Moore's not in DT anymore????
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970405165605.00a4b4a4@enteract.com>
Don't mind the subject, please. :)
>The reason I mention this now is because I've heard how the new material
>doesn't sound as complex or proggy (I haven't heard the new material,
>so take all this with a big fat grain of salt). This would continue
>to conform to this trend. The only thing wrong with this theory is
>Kevin's solo material, which would suggest he got tired of the entire
>genre altogether. But now that I hear about the new Fates album, and
>how Kevin seems to be back to his old tricks, I've started wondering
>about this again.
I had thought about this. I also have another theory. It seems to
me that there are many songs, on I&W AND Awake, where Kevin doesn't really
do much... just hits a chord here and there or holds a sustained note or
two. He's a very active player, and I can believe that being restrained
like that may not be enjoyable. Similarly, if I was in a top 40's band or
as Tribal Tech says, "on my boat gig", and couldn't play anything complex or
original... no real free solo spots like JP has in DT... I'd probably hate
it too.
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 10:14:52 -0700
From: sir@micron.net
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: GT
Message-ID: <199704051715.KAA16129@snowden.micron.net>
wow who woulda thunk that Geoff Tate was an Ecoli expert? Maybe that's
what Mindcrime was about. and to think we thought it was about sex and
drugs this whole time!
New Yanni on the 15th! I haven't ever heard Yanni, I just thought some ppl
might be interested.
woot
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 12:47:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Kevin's motivations
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970405120645.1890B-100000@unix18.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Jim Beavens wrote:
> Someone said about Kevin:
>
> >But there's a certain magic to Images and Words that I really missed.
> >Until I heard the new Fates, that is.
That would be me.
>
> Could some kind souls out there that have heard the new Fates album
> elaborate on this a bit? I kind of freaked when I heard that Kevin's
> work on the new Fates album reminded people of I&W, especially when
> everybody had been led to believe he wasn't interested in that type
> of music anymore.
Okay. First of all, his sound on the Fates album is more synthy (ala I&W)
than organ (ala awake). There's a lot of that dark atmoshperic string kind
of thing like at the beginning of Metropolis, and there are a lot of
sections that are reminiscent of the instrumental part of Metropolis,
with all the instruments duking it out in complementary kind of riffs.
Some pretty crazy stuff.
There aren't many wild solos. I hope I didn't mislead people into
expecting those. There aren't even many guitar solos, and those that there
are are slow, pink floydish things rather than the blazing stuff Kevin and
John used to do (and John still does). But Kevin does take a lot of leads,
and contributes a lot of intricate stuff that is intergral to the the
music, not just a fattening of the sound.
> Granted, this isn't very wide of a spectrum, and I'm not saying that
> WDADU isn't heavy or that Awake isn't proggy, but when I listen to
> the enormous influence that Kevin had on WDADU, and then the greatly
> reduced influence he had on Awake, I can't help but wonder if it was
> this aspect of the band's direction that he disagreed with. Instead
> of doing slightly-funky-slightly-experimental things in their songs,
> they were taking a more straightforward approach.
It's hard to say. APSOG is more experimental than Awake, and Kevin's solo
stuff is too, but in a different way, much more mellow. I think it's
possible that Kevin was just tired of being expected to contribute a wild
solo to every song. But I think mostly Kevin just wanted more control,
and he realized that in a band full of incredible creative talents like
DT, there just wasn't going to be enough time to explore what he wanted to
do. Also, Fates' method of writing songs is very different from DT's. DT
sits around and jams for days, then they go bad and pick their favourite
riffs and make songs out of them. With Fates, Jim sends everyone a tape
and says "play this" and maybe Kevin preferred that (plus the bonus of not
having to go on tour with them.)
>
> The reason I mention this now is because I've heard how the new material
> doesn't sound as complex or proggy (I haven't heard the new material,
> so take all this with a big fat grain of salt). This would continue
------------------------------
> to conform to this trend. The only thing wrong with this theory is
> Kevin's solo material, which would suggest he got tired of the entire
> genre altogether. But now that I hear about the new Fates album, and
I don't know. His first demos do suggest that, but the more recent Chroma
Key demo featured more wild piano playing and seemed more proggy to me.
But I think it's safe to say he's not completely turned off to the genre,
he just doesn't want to be limited to it (and crowded into a band that
consumes all his time and doesn't let him stretch his influence as much as
he'd like).
> how Kevin seems to be back to his old tricks, I've started wondering
> about this again.
I think we'll have to wait till the Chroma Key album is finished to hazard
a solid guess. Or someone could just ask him :)
>
> Could it be that his solo material is simply one way of continuing
> the experimental, "out-there" style of song-writing he craves? Perhaps
> Dream Theater simply wasn't being daring enough anymore, and the style
> of music he had on his solo demos simply reflected the best music he
> could produce on his own while still being something completely different
> (I doubt he would try to write Metropolis Pt. II with a sequencer).
Well, you can do a *lot* with a good sequencer. I think it's a safe bet
that whatever he's doing, it's pretty close to what he wants to do.
> When he heard FW was going to record a nifty 55-minute song, perhaps
> this daring style of metal was just what he was looking for. So
> Of course this is all extremely wild speculation, and remember that
> there are rampant IMHOs placed throughout this wherever I refer to my
> view of previous albums, but I would really like to hear a more
> in-depth analysis of Kevin's contribution on the new Fates album.
> Does it really bring back memories of I&W? Does he really sound like
> his old self? Because if he does, then I think it just proves that
> not a one of us have any idea what's going on in that poor boy's head. 8^)
>
Hope my analysis was in-depth enough. I can go into more detail if you
want. He doesn't sound *just* like his old self. Those wonderful solos are
missing, and a good bit of his "new self" (industrial touches, chromakey
or on the page style piano) is here.
It should also be emphasized that Kevin didn't write this stuff. I don't
know exactly how much influence he had, but this is a Fates Warning song,
written by Jim Matheos. I think Kevin still likes progressive stuff, and
took the opportunity to help out some friends, maybe satisfy an urge to
play on this sort of thing again without being stuck in a band that
dominated his life.
-maximilian
Anton Max
MadMax+@cmu.edu
http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:24:41 PST
From: Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Politically Incorrect
Message-ID: <199704051836.SAA633974@out2.ibm.net>
** Reply to note from ytsejam@ax.com 04/05/97 04:20am -0800
I saw that too last night, actually, it was a fluke that I
caught it but I felt sorry for Geoff, what a waste of his
time. He only said 1 thing, "The fda and all those bills,
haven't been changed since 1912", that's it.
Who are those freaks on that show though, the host was an
obnoxious little shitface who I'd like to see with a gag on
his mouth next time, whoever that commedian girl was, just
shoot her frankly. She wasn't funny, I thought they said she
was a commedian. The Senator, at least he seemed like he had
some brains, hard to believe eh. That other dude, no idea who
the hell he was either. I tell ya, those guys on that show are
screwed.
Mark/Stranger0
*You must unlearn, what you have learned, only then, will you have learned something.
- Yoda, Star Wars
*I have learned, that I know nothing - Mark Smeets
*You have not yet completed your training - Yoda, Star Wars
Check out the Megadeth Faq:
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/Front.htm
My Page:
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 12:36:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Cygnus <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Victor II
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970405123332.16677B-100000@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu>
> I'm not with DTIFC, so I haven't read the actual interview. I think
> it could be that James was joking about working with Alex Lifeson,
> because of how much Rush was against the Rush tribute "Working Man".
> Just a thought.
This is true. Maybe the interviewer didn't pursue this line of
questioning because of an obvious tone of sarcasm or humor in JLB's
voice. But who really knows for sure?
***Rob***
rctaylor@uiuc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 13:48:59 EST
From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
To: Ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Thanks in Advance!!
Message-ID: <19970405.105001.3430.2.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
I just wanted to thank everyone in advance for giving me the
Ytse-asshole of the month Award. This is good therapy for
Mark. I should send him a picture of myslef to him so he can
post it on his web page so he can show everyone what the
Ytsejam's #1 asshole looks like. That should give Itchy a
big ol' erection. When the only way you can get attention from
a woman is to get a hooker, you gotta get your kicks where you
can.
Scott
*******************************************************************************************
In the year 2000, Aunt Jemima and Mrs. Butterworth will tarnish
their image by admitting that they've "Tasted each others' syrup."
Conan O'Brien April 1, 1997.
*******************************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:38:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Symbolic66@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: MORE fractions!!!
Message-ID: <970405143814_-1704080463@emout16.mail.aol.com>
<< You can count a song however you like, so long as the math works out. >>
hey all! pay attention...i know youve heard mike p talk in a clinic or
interview or whatever...but i KNOW hes said a hundred billion million times
EXACTLY what neil said in the above quote...and since its dt material...what
mike says goes...listen to neil hes right...its all math
9/8 9/8 = 4/4 5/4 ok?!? hehehehehe
i watched neil pearts vid last night with my pal the rush freak (im the dt
freak) and i noticed neil peart may disagree...he cares to just follow the
groove and not worry too much about the details of time signature
anyway...for mike p and dt material...rythms are all math and can be done
millions of different ways...otherwise all music would sound the
same...right?
here is an example... there is a part in metropolis part 1 where the guitars
bass and keys are playing in 3/4...its somewhere in the midsection...not sure
the exact time
anyway...mike talked about this specific part at his clinic show in norfolk
va
while the band is playing in 3/4...mike says he is playing in alternating 5/8
7/8
see? its the same thing...they add up to equal each other...the 2 3/4 and the
5/8 7/8
to find what im talking about find a part where mike is playing the following
all 8ths (pardon my horrible little creation here...but im inexperienced at
writing drum parts on computer...hehe)
b = bass and cymbal (the cymbal changes...its a splash for one point...i
think it changes)
s = snare
all 8ths -> | b s b s s | b s b s b s s |
see...the alternative 5/8 7/8 BUT it works perfectly with the 3/4 the rest of
the band is doing...its the same thing as in what you guys are talking about
with the 4/4 5/4 and 9/8
maybe the whole band isnt playing the same time sig there either...perhaps
mike is doing 4/4 5/4 and the rest are doing 9/8 or who knows? it could be
anything
ok...im done...haha
brian (symbolic)
http:/www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/5578/home.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:40:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Symbolic66@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Specific Reasons for 4/4 then 5/4
Message-ID: <970405144015_1519422516@emout16.mail.aol.com>
<< Listen to the drums. Every measure is played EXACTLY
like the first four beats at 2:02, leading to the conclusion that Mike is
treating the first four beats at 2:02 precisely like the measures of 4/4
time
at 2:15. I think this is a *strong* argument. >>
so what if mikes playing in 4/4 5/4 ...that doesnt mean the whole band is
brian (symbolic)
http:/www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/5578/home.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:42:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Symbolic66@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Rush tribute Album
Message-ID: <970405144214_450637622@emout08.mail.aol.com>
<< Anyone knows where I can get the Rush Tribute Album? >>
i was glancing around a plan 9 cd store and was in the tribute section or
somethign within the rock section and a found a copy there...the guys there
told me once before that they didnt know it was cancelled...i dunno
waht i do know is there are still copies around...i guess its not that
difficult to find them
brian (symbolic)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/5578/home.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:45:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Symbolic66@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: fractions and stuff
Message-ID: <970405144536_1054933305@emout18.mail.aol.com>
<< > >OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says
> >>9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John
> >P. He edited the book for crimney's sake. >>
ill say it again...the whole band does not have to be in the same time
sig...thats johns time sig...mike could be in another...its all the same so
the specifics dont really matter...they only matter when reading sheet music
brian (symbolic)
http:/www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/5578/home.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:49:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Symbolic66@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: time sigs
Message-ID: <970405144937_513396542@emout13.mail.aol.com>
<< Nice try, Rip, but as far as I know there is NO such thing as a 53rd note.
: )
of coure there is...53 53rd notes per measure...and if its in something over
53 time then a 53rd note becomes very easy to play...
say 4/53 time...would be played like 4/4..just 53rd note gets the beat...i
just dont know how to draw a 53rd note...any ideas?
brian (symbolic)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/5578/home.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 14:53:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Symbolic66@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: sig debate
Message-ID: <970405145259_607425500@emout04.mail.aol.com>
<< >I am far from musical and basically have ignored the time sig. debate,
but
>for those that have the Portnoy Instructional video, doesn't he explain his
>parts on Surrounded? And doesn't he say they are 5/4? >>
ok...solved
the guitar book says 9/8...mike says 5/4...so my points proven...the time
varies between band members...maybe john m is in 33/16 3/16 alternating time
and kevin is in 1/1 1/1 1/4 alternating time...hehe ...i really doubt it
though
brian (symbolic)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/5578/home.htm
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2428
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