YTSEJAM Digest 2426
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Fates and Conception tour?
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
2) Re: MORE fractions!!!
by "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425
by "James Garrett"<james.garrett@tekelec.com>
4) Specific Reasons for 4/4 then 5/4
by "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
5) Rush tribute Album
by Federico Carbonell <fed@erols.com>
6) Canadian & DSS jammers
by Jackie Puppet <skooc@earthlink.net>
7) the derek factor
by EricD91011@aol.com
8) DS factor :)
by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
9) Re: the derek factor
by Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
10) Re: Isn't controvery fun??? especially when there's NDTC???
by mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
11) QR on Hardradio
by Ivan Galesic <igalesic@interlog.com>
12) JP and DS clinic
by Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
13) Re: fractions and stuff
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
14) Re: fractions and stuff
by Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
15) What the World Has Come To (No DT Content)
by Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com>
16) Re: fractions and stuff
by "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
17) time sigs?
by "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
18) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425 Neil's Comments
by GnRBrks@aol.com
19) Derek's opinions
by "Dale R. Newberry" <Dale.R.Newberry@MO.NET>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:47:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Fates and Conception tour?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970404184729.17178A-100000@unix17.andrew.cmu.edu>
So who's playing second guitar and keys on the tour?
-maximilian
Anton Max
MadMax+@cmu.edu
http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: 04 Apr 97 15:53:12 -0800
From: "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: MORE fractions!!!
Message-ID: <199704050002.QAA23211@mailseq4.us.oracle.com>
>>If you're talking about the intro to Voices, then what you stated here is
incorrect.
NO, I am talking about the verse to "Surrounded." I was the original person
who mentioned the song, and I mentioned that I loved the 5/4 aspect of it.
That's what started this ridiculous debate.
You can count a song however you like, so long as the math works out. Let's
all remember that written notation is an *approximation* of the music, an
*attempt* to formalize it and render it in a permanent form that many others
can comprehend. I totally agree with your assessment of "Voices," although it
should be added that you *could* (although it would be strange) group every
two measures of 9/8 together and write it as 4/4 then 5/4. My comments
concerning Portnoy's phrasing should be applied to the verse of "Surrounded."
cheers,
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:08:08 -0700
From: "James Garrett"<james.garrett@tekelec.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425
Message-ID: <8825646F.0083A9D3.00@domino1.ca.tekelec.com>
ytsejam@ax.com on 04/04/97 03:21:17 PM
Please respond to ytsejam@ax.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
cc: (bcc: James Garrett/TEKELEC)
Subject: RE: Rush tour
>I think James G wrote:
>>Also, the radio promo said that they
>>are actually going to play all of 2112! I'd pay nine bucks just to here
>that.
>ARe you refering to the whole song or the whole album? If it is the whole
song then it >is nothing new since they did 2112 on the first leg.
I didn't get a chance to see the first leg, but the last time I saw them,
they only did "Overture" and "Temples of Syrinx."
AND
>I thought they were playing irvine Meadows?
>-The Doc
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the venues down here yet. It's the one in
Irvine.
BTW, is there anything to listen to besides KLOS down here?
James G.
------------------------------
Date: 04 Apr 97 16:11:47 -0800
From: "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Specific Reasons for 4/4 then 5/4
Message-ID: <199704050012.QAA11480@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com>
>>Voices,
and Surrounded flow much more counted in 9's rather than 5's and 4's.
I strongly disagree (concerning "Surrounded"). I just listened again. Count
it in 9/8 and notice the strange upbeat that starts every 2nd "measure."
There is no sense of beginning a new measure at that point in either the
rhythm or the melody. It really does feel, rhythmically, like a measure of
4/4 followed by an extended measure, one of 5/4.
OK, here goes - I will get ultra-specific to make this point. All who still
claim "Surrounded" flows better in 9/8 please try this out. Bear in mind that
I care nothing for how it looks written on paper - yes, it is annoying to see
a new time signature at the beginning of every measure. Assuming that the
drums are the best determinant of the rhythm and meter, listen to the verse
beginning at exactly 2:02 ("Dreams are shaking"). Listen to the first four
beats there (drums!), what I hear as a measure of 4/4 time. Then hear the
drums change during the next 5 beats, what I hear as a measure of 5/4 time.
Now notice that at 2:15 the meter switches to straight 4/4 time (I think we
can all agree on this). Listen to the drums. Every measure is played EXACTLY
like the first four beats at 2:02, leading to the conclusion that Mike is
treating the first four beats at 2:02 precisely like the measures of 4/4 time
at 2:15. I think this is a *strong* argument.
If you STILL don't believe me, listen to the guitar at 2:02! The first 8
eighth notes sound like one "phrase". This completes a 4/4 feel. The 9th
eighth note is *accented*. This feels like a *downbeat*, hence the start of a
new measure of 5/4. You wouldn't normally *accent* the 9th beat in a measure
of 9/8.
Folks, count it however you want but please don't tell me I'm wrong by saying
I hear a 4/4 then 5/4 rhythm here.
cheers,
-Neil.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 19:28:17 -0500
From: Federico Carbonell <fed@erols.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Rush tribute Album
Message-ID: <33459CA1.37D6@erols.com>
Anyone knows where I can get the Rush Tribute Album?
Federico Carbonell
fed@erols.com
ffcarbo@apl.jhu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:35:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Jackie Puppet <skooc@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Canadian & DSS jammers
Message-ID: <199704050035.QAA27281@italy.it.earthlink.net>
This weekend on Much is all 80's videos. I don't know if that
means all new wave, but I'm sure a few of your favorite Cheese
Metal Hair bands will be there.
Scott
***************************************************************************
Kill Kill Kill..... the White Man; Kill him until he is dead.
Kill Kill Kill the White Man. Thank you.
Howard Stern as Mamalookaboobooday
Detroit's first black traffic reporter
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:35:16 -0500 (EST)
From: EricD91011@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: the derek factor
Message-ID: <970404193446_-2105153635@emout17.mail.aol.com>
I suppose everyone has done this before but I hate holding my tongue when it
gets to Kevin:
"and to anyone who's ever
said he cant hold a candle to KevMo, blah! he's quite possibly the best
asset to the band and the new album, lines in the sand is currently my fave
new song and he's the one who partook much of its writing. good show! =)
~Rip"
I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good
work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of
anything. The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but
the he just doesn't click like Kevin. Where is my opinion coming from? Not
really the works from I&W or Awake but the jams they did live, the fooling
around at soundchecks. The four original members click better then this
four. Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his
piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this
mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left
in the crowd. Take the time.
-Eric
ps for those desiring to attack me with the "get over it and move on"
sentiment, find another intelligent response
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:57:14 -0600
From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DS factor :)
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970405005714.00758020@mail.inlink.com>
>
>I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good
>work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of
>anything. The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but
>the he just doesn't click like Kevin. Where is my opinion coming from? Not
>really the works from I&W or Awake but the jams they did live, the fooling
>around at soundchecks. The four original members click better then this
>four. Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his
>piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this
>mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left
>in the crowd. Take the time.
>
>ps for those desiring to attack me with the "get over it and move on"
>sentiment, find another intelligent response
>
not a problem. here's one to start with: kevin had played with the band
ten years, derek has played with them around two. Kevin had the chance to
grow with the rest of the band, progressing along from pre-maj demos to
Awake, derek has just jumped in with them now. Of course he doesnt click
and compliment with other guys as much yet, its like friends: you can walk
up to your friend you've known since kindergarden, and the whole chain of
conversation will be a lot different than someone you've recently met. but
as you get to know that person the conversational capacity will broaden,
click in, become more "tight" in a friendship sort of way :) so i'm saying,
give him a chance to click in. and as for the lyrical aspect, kevin was a
great lyricist, but you havent even had a taste of DS's, and if you have,
post em! i think the keys on I&W click well, but by the time of awake kevin
just didnt have too much drive for the band any more.
to conclude, i never attacked kevin, i never said derek was better, nor
worse. i simply stated that he definately does not fall behind him in any
way whatsoever and the new direction he's helping the band take is
incredible. if you jump on the line to attack every time someone simply
compliments derek and mention the word "kevin" in the same sentence, you're
going to be doing a lot of blind defending. =)
I back kevin fully, i'm anxiously awaiting the new fates warning and
chromakey, but why is it assumed if one appreciates DS he must detest kevin,
and vice versa?
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:06:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Anton Max <madmax@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: the derek factor
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.970404195045.17178C-100000@unix17.andrew.cmu.edu>
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 EricD91011@aol.com wrote:
> I suppose everyone has done this before but I hate holding my tongue when it
> gets to Kevin:
>
> "and to anyone who's ever
> said he cant hold a candle to KevMo, blah! he's quite possibly the best
> asset to the band and the new album, lines in the sand is currently my fave
> new song and he's the one who partook much of its writing. good show! =)
> ~Rip"
>
> I have always wondered why the blind devotion to a guy who has done some good
> work with DT, but come on no albums, no long term fixture, not much of
> anything. The guy is really though, a great asset from that standpoint, but
> the he just doesn't click like Kevin. Where is my opinion coming from? Not
> really the works from I&W or Awake but the jams they did live, the fooling
> around at soundchecks. The four original members click better then this
> four. Kevin's sound fits better with JP and MP, he seperates better, his
> piano is far better, and the lyrics... well look at everyone sig. on this
> mailing list. Just my opinion of course from one of the few Kev backers left
> in the crowd. Take the time.
>
Speaking as a fanatical Kevin fan, I see your point, especially about
separating better. Derek tends to supplement the guitars with his organ,
whereas Kevin used to complement them. But I think this is a change in the
style of the band, not necessarily due to Derek...it was already underway
on Awake.
Derek has really impressed me at some points, though. His solo towards the
end of ACOS really rips, and I quite enjoyed his piano and organ solo on
the japanese PPV concert. I also thought he did pretty well at the
Providence show.
But there's a certain magic to Images and Words that I really missed.
Until I heard the new Fates, that is.
All in all, though, I'm glad Kevin left DT. Derek is more than adequate,
and Kevin's solo stuff is awesome.
-maximilian
Anton Max
MadMax+@cmu.edu
http://thunderdome.pc.cs.cmu.edu/aepithex.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:11:58 EST
From: mamalookabubuday@juno.com (Scott Cook)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Isn't controvery fun??? especially when there's NDTC???
Message-ID: <19970404.171245.14550.13.Mamalookabubuday@juno.com>
*******************************************************************************************
In the year 2000, Aunt Jemima and Mrs. Butterworth will tarnish
their image by admitting that they've "Tasted each others' syrup."
Conan O'Brien April 1, 1997.
*******************************************************************************************
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:19:26 -0800 (PST) Randall Braun
<RBraun@adnc.ameridata.com> writes:
>Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Most of us are here
>because we enjoy DT!!
And if I want your opinion I'll give it to you!
I'M KIDDING!
Seriously though. Most people wouldn't begrudge you having an
opinion, it was more the personal nature of your opinion and
saying that Gary was somehow a better person because his
lyrics are more thought provoking. Sure music is an art form
and I enjoy meaningful lyrics, but on the other hand
It's only Rock and Roll (but I like it).
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:06:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Ivan Galesic <igalesic@interlog.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: QR on Hardradio
Message-ID: <199704050206.VAA18379@smtp.interlog.com>
Hi i'm new to the jam and can't wait to read it every day. I just thought I
would mention that there is an interview with Chris DeGarmo (as well as
others band interviews) on Hardradio. It also has album release dates and
news on a lot of bands. If you have RealAudio 3 you can tune in and listen
to comercial free radio. Check it out at www.hardradio.com
Ivan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:16:26 -0600
From: Aaron Happe <jared@stlnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: JP and DS clinic
Message-ID: <3345B5F9.1503@mail.stlnet.com>
Well I am sure that you have heard this from all the other St. Louis
jammers but... THE JP and DS clinic rocked! I totally dig the new
songs, and that kewl little song he wrote when his daughter was
sleeping. :-) The coolest thing was I will pay 30 bux for a concert and
go see JP and DS for FREE!! and have just as good if not BETTER time. I
HAVE to see DT in concert. And yes as Corey said that FREAK bass dude
was a nerd :-) He would not shup up, and I was dying laughing at the
fucker.
-Aaron Happe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 19:20:40 +0000
From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: fractions and stuff
Message-ID: <199704050233.SAA25065@odin.ax.com>
> glen wrote:
> >>It IS 9/8!!!!!!!!!!! Count the eighth notes!!!!!!!! 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9,1 =
> 2 3
> 4 5 6 7 8 9....
> It can't be 4/4 and 5/4
>
Who actually gives a damn what key sig it's in?
OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says
>9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John
P. He edited the book for crimney's sake.
Well, I really have nothing else to say, so...
Enjoy the sig. :)
"And lo cameth down from the mountain the wombat
gaveth the blessing of life unto Australia. Thus
spaketh he 'dweefle' and it was good. O, how the
divine blessing of his teaching scoureth the land
and yea, harken unto he the herald of the Divine
Being 'dweefle' and harken unto thyself the message
of the wombat, and ye shall gain everlasting peace."
---From the teachings of KorgX3
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~ibanez
ibanez@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:56:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: fractions and stuff
Message-ID: <199704050256.VAA15714@cliff.cris.com>
Chuck wrote,
>OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says
>>9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John
>P. He edited the book for crimney's sake.
Yeah, but he went to Berklee for a whole year.
-Rick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 22:03 EST
From: Soul Madness <mcauburn@iinc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: What the World Has Come To (No DT Content)
Message-ID: <m0wDLlR-0006WSC@xcalibur.iinc.com>
At the end of this Mindfunk song I was listening to and reading the lyrics
for, I found something humorous that seemed like a corporate desicion. The
song is called Innocense off of their first album (an awesome non-prog album)..
The lyrics for Innocense
..and then in small letters...hey bonechild folx: let it be known that we
freaks from mind funkin no way condone suicide so all you with an
overabundance of pills and razor blades, keep em locked up for there ain't
no greater gift than life itself so liveth, do not taketh away. Peace y'all.
Funny- most kids should know not to kill themselves over a fricking song.
Don
mcauburn@iinc.com
soulmadness@hotmail.com (for people sending pics, sound files, etc.)
Warrior Soul Homepage (now featuring a Whats New section, a review with more
to come, liner notes, lyrics, and info on rare CD singles)
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/5784/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:50:45 +0000
From: "KorgX3" <ibanez@mailhost.cyberhighway.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: fractions and stuff
Message-ID: <199704050402.UAA25883@odin.ax.com>
> >OK, to settle it, I popped open my I&W guitar tab book and it says
> >>9/8<. OK? Nuff said. If you wanna argue it, write a letter to John
> >P. He edited the book for crimney's sake.
>
> Yeah, but he went to Berklee for a whole year.
LOL!
Oh, well, you win some, you lose some. :)
I don't understand the whole reasoning behind the arguement anyway.
I never pay attention to key sigs. In my world, all key sigs are 4/4
only some 4/4's are longer than others and some are shorter. Some
are off-beat, but most are right on. 9 notes in a bar? It's just an
extended 4/4 where the guitarist was trying to do something wacky.
He's just shortenening all the eighth notes to compensate squeezing
in one extra note. It's still 4/4. :)
(You can evidently tell I'm a Berklee music major now, eh?)
"And lo cameth down from the mountain the wombat
gaveth the blessing of life unto Australia. Thus
spaketh he 'dweefle' and it was good. O, how the
divine blessing of his teaching scoureth the land
and yea, harken unto he the herald of the Divine
Being 'dweefle' and harken unto thyself the message
of the wombat, and ye shall gain everlasting peace."
---From the teachings of KorgX3
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~ibanez
ibanez@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 22:11:10 -0600
From: "Rip, Cow Virtuoso" <ripzero@dreamt.org>
To: Heavy Metal Computer Nerds <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: time sigs?
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970405041110.0074da0c@mail.inlink.com>
well, if i DO know one thing, its that acos is only one measure long. yep.
its in 463241631290748903124/53rds of course
~Rip
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 23:15:01 -0500 (EST)
From: GnRBrks@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2425 Neil's Comments
Message-ID: <970404231500_607357761@emout02.mail.aol.com>
Okay man!!!!!!!! After posting I thought to myself" After all those music
theory classes and all those jazz/fusion gigs I played in during college and
all the mixed meter covering I do of DT ; it doesn't really matter how you
count it as long as we all end up at the same place at the same time!!!!!!!
So.........You are right and I was wrong.
I hate admiting that. After all I am only a Mike Portnoy wannabe trying to
develop my onw style.....
"Find all you need in your mind,if you take the time" TTT.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:49:48 +0000
From: "Dale R. Newberry" <Dale.R.Newberry@MO.NET>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Derek's opinions
Message-ID: <199704050450.WAA13418@Walden.MO.NET>
Yeah, I thought Derek showed real class when stating his opinions,
not insulting anyone, but being frank about his opinions on stuff.
And I kind of got the impression that he really digs a lot of prog
(mentioned King Crimson, ELP, etc.). I think he takes a pretty
straightforward approach to playing, y'know, taking a more in your
face, ballsy approach, as opposed to being more ethereal. Back to
his opinions, about the closest he came to trashing (and I use thise
term in a playful manner :) anyone was when someone asked about what
kind of person Alice Cooper is. He (DS) replied by saying AC is a
very sweet person. Very friendly. Then he said "Now ask me about
Gene Simmons :)." Got a good chuckle :).
Just got back from seeing Billy Sheehan do a clinic. Man, that guy
smokes. I think I actually learned something I can apply to my
practice sessions, too. He seemed to have a real grasp on
practicing, as opposed to merely playing songs. I really like how he
said he's totally into Doug Pinnick, and how he was like, "well,
they're on Atlantic." Again, a very cool person. Very appreciative
of fans. Very into music from the heart. He even said he digs The
Ramones, Republica, KX, as long as its from the heart and not
over-contrived. I also like how he made it a point that what works
for one person, may not necessarily work for another.
Tomorrow, Al DiMeola.
Dale R. Newberry
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2426
**************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:22 EST