YTSEJAM Digest 2823
Today's Topics:
1) PLEASE STOP SENDING ME THIS SH*T, and, my thoughts
by caber1@concentric.net
2) Sick of people bitching. So let me bitch a little more. : )
by "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
3) Yet another You Not Me post
by Beth Elzinga <liz@freenet.macatawa.org>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2820
by KyleTaraG@aol.com
5) Production, Fates pre - show.
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
6) Production and Kevin Shirley
by "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
7) Fates Warning....next week
by JE78674@ltu.edu
8) Re: Sick of people bitching. So let me bitch a little more. :
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
9) Re: RTK, new DT stuff
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@linux.ime.usp.br>
10) I am sick of lurking!!! Part 1 - The Bitching
by bogie@MIT.EDU
11) I am sick of lurking!!! Part 2 - Other stuff
by bogie@MIT.EDU
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:52:14 -0700
From: caber1@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: PLEASE STOP SENDING ME THIS SH*T, and, my thoughts
Message-ID: <33E8B9CE.35B8@concentric.net>
Hehehe, just kidding...
Hi everyone,
Well, it seems everybody and their mother has heard YNM. But, since I
have a crappy computer and need a math co-processor to run any mpeg3
player, I haven't heard it, yet. :( I can run .wavs but if anyone out
there thinks I'm going to download 25 megs, you're crazy! I'll wait for
the album.
But, I've been reading the reviews of the new song. It's funny the
production either sounds like it came from the THRASH(bad) or straight
from MP's toilet(good). JP is either the Kobain impostor(bad) or is
playing simple fills(good). That DT has sold out(bad) or is just doing
new things(good). That JM has taken over the mix(good) or the mix guy
has put JM way in the front(good). I think I'm gonna like this song. :)
This paragraph is to those that think DT is selling out. MP said it best
in IRC. I forget exactly but he said but that in order for DT to make
music they need to be heard. To be heard you have to been on the radio.
I don't care if the whole album is "sell-out" songs. From what I hear
YNM is a kick ass song. And if it means I get over an hour of new music
from some of the best musicians currently out there, I say go for it.
Some of you guys think DT can just make a huge song, with changing odd
time sigs, and long soloes, etc. without caring about money. Well, they
can't. And if they have to make a "sell-out" song, well, they have to do
it. But knowing DT they won't do a simple pop song. They'll try to sound
a little different. Which is what I think we all like about DT.
Anyway, just buy the album. Somebody bought up a good point. They said
something like could you tell what I&W would sound like by just Another
Day? I thought about this for a nano-second. And came up with could you
tell what would any DT CD would sound like by just one song? I can't...
John McCabe
caber1@concentric.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:35:44 -0600
From: "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Sick of people bitching. So let me bitch a little more. : )
Message-ID: <199708051541.IAA27770@odin.ax.com>
>> that's missing 90% of all the solos? Does anyone think about the
>> possibility that the single that people have on their hands may not be
the
>> full song? Does anyone care that the shit they talk on this list is
read by
>>
>YNM is so bad that even if the remaining 10% was the second coming of
>7:30-8:00 of Metropolis, the song would still suck.
Heh... And with all the great playing in the middle of Metropolis it's
still boring. So it looks like we're at an impasse. As a general rule,
when the instrumental section of Met. comes along, I go grab a book and
read it until UAGM comes on. *yawn* I honesty can wait a real long time
to hear Metropolis II. So don't expect me to run to the stores when it
comes out. I'll just stop by the bookstand first. Mebbe pick up the uncut
version of The Stand or something... ;)
>And as for your comment about Blind Melon fans, well, Blind Melon suck
>so much that I don't see how fans can possibly be disappointed.
I guess I should never admit to liking Blind Melon here...
"I don't feel the Sun's coming out today..."
>When you release music of the quality DT has released in the past, you
>have some pretty high expectations to live up to.
Like what? Has it ever occured to you that bands change? ALL bands
change (except Van Halen) and if they don't change, they just get old and
boring. What's so extremely funny is people bitching that they hate clone
bands. I say, "Well, if they sound like DT what's wrong with it?" And
their response, "Because I don't wanna hear the same shit over and over
again." Now, DT changes and everyone starts bitching. Can you spell
hippopotamus? I don't think I just did. :P
>I'm grateful for the new music
You had me rolling on the floor here for a minute.
>because I'll buy the album and go to DT's concerts and support them
> just like I always have, and if I'm spending money supporting them,
>I think I have a right to complain that a song sucks.
Poser. :P I hope James jumps of the stage and beats you over the head with
his microphone. But what can I say? I don't like the way our governemt
runs but I live here anyway.... Hrm... There's gotta be a connection
somewhere....
>Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that this is mostly Kevin Shirley's
>fault. I'd put Kevin Shirley in a fucking Trash Can. The only good
>thing he did here was make Myung sound awesome.
Hahah... It's funny how noone is willing to admit the band probably had
alot of input as to how the album sounded. I thought Kevin Shirley did an
excellent job with Journey's last album, ans IMO what I can hear of YNT
sounds excellent as well. Remember Mike said he was really happy with the
way things sounded. Hrm... I forgot Mike was also denounce as a fucking
liar last jam or so, so I guess we can't base our ideas by what he says.
>> You Not Me is the best piece of songwriting DT has done yet.
And I agree Mike. :) It's about time they actually put a solid song
together than a few pieced together riffs and shred-runs. It was all
really nice, but it's becoming "old hat."
>I think Rush may be becoming my new favourite band, because their songs
>age much better than DT's... and I've been listening to DT for so long
>now...
Well then...
Mailto: ytsejam-request@ax.com
Subject: asdf
Body: unsubscribe ytsejam
Not hard to figure out. :)
KorgX3
KorgX3@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:49:06 -0500
From: Beth Elzinga <liz@freenet.macatawa.org>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Yet another You Not Me post
Message-ID: <01BCA195.94CB9420@pm4-24.macatawa.org>
I have now heard the song, just like everyone else, and, just like =
everyone else, I'm going to state my opinion, whether anyone cares or =
not. :)
Well, I will give you what I think of this song in two very short =
sentences. I hate it. I love it.
Let's just say I had heard this song on the radio and had no clue as to =
who this was. I would have said, "Hey, this is a good song!! This =
could really kick some ass!!" If I had never heard of DT before, I =
might have started buying their albums with this song.
But, on the down side, I have heard of DT before (duh) and I am a little =
disappointed with the sound of this song. The plain truth is it does =
sound like something I would hear on the radio. With the radio around =
here, that isn't saying very much. It sounds like something they could =
play after Oasis or something. I'm a little afraid of another =
disappointment with Falling Into Infinity like I got with Load.
I do understand that DT needs their radio playability and their own way =
to appeal to the masses, so I'm just looking at this song as more =
focused on that. And, I do like this song, just not in the way I =
usually like Dream Theater songs.
Just my humble opinion.
Beth Elzinga
--------- Melody walks in the door ----------
----- And memory flies out the window ----
---- And nobody knows what they want ----
-------- Till they finally let it all go.---------
Dream Theater
lyrics by Kevin Moore for "6:00"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:53:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: KyleTaraG@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2820
Message-ID: <970805115132_-1775108549@emout03.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-08-04 23:45:09 EDT, you write:
<< The other guy
I met outside while getting stuff signed. He said he had driven in
from New Orleans, and a friend of his had come from Orlando!
Fortunately for them, they planned on catching the show in Lafayette, LA
2 days later, on their way back home. >>
Yep, that was a buddy of mine who I met on the DT board on AOL a year ago.
We planned to go see Fates and DT when they finally put albums out. After a
2 hour flight from Orlando and a 6 hour drive to Houston, that show was a
fiasco. The weekend was saved however by the Lafayette show---Fates kicked
so much butt it was riduculous. Go see this show if they come anywhere near
you. And for anyone who hasn't quite gotten into APSOG, try, try
again...this record will eventually get inside your head--it's brilliant.
I'd just like to echo Ken's sentiments and strongly advise the boys in DT
NOT TO PLAY AT THE ABYSS IN HOUSTON. The worst club I've ever been to---with
no AC, the temp. was about 800 degrees. Since Theater probably won't be
playing my neck o' the woods-New Orleans (c'mon Mike...please!)--I'll be
making another trek to Houston and points beyond and I never want to set foot
in that club again!
Another point....someone hit it right on the head about You Not Me...Imagine
if the first thing you heard was Another Day, or for that matter Space Dye
Vest...both great songs, but only showing one of the many faces of DT. I for
one really like the single, and can't wait to hear the whole album.
-Kyle G.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:31:35 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Production, Fates pre - show.
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-970805163135Z-3035@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
Mark Peters wrote...
>critical junction so far in DT's career. Negativity is neither needed
>nor welcomed, even in a limited-access forum such as the 'jam. Don't
>look this gift horse in the mouth. Keep your complaints to yourself, at
>least until everyone else has a copy of FiI on which to form their own
>opinions and weigh them against yours.
No, but (constructive) criticism IS. I was merely making the point that
using a "hot" producer did what I thought it would - messed up the
sound, IMNSHO. I _like_ the song, despite Desmond Child being involved
in it.
Keep complaints to ourselves? What mailing list are YOU posting to? :)
Steffan Quoth:
>> "awesome". I'm sick as FUCK of hearing people basically say that whatever
>> was released would have been better if it was: Images & Words 2, Operation
>> Mindcrime 2, Moving Pictures 2, Master of Puppets 2, and so forth. I
>> imagine I'm being clear here even though the way I worded it above was a
>> bit sub-optimal.
>>
>> You Not Me is the best piece of songwriting DT has done yet.
>
>If you referred to the part that apparently DT wrote themselves then I
>could
>agree...
OK, I know that I, for one, am not looking for I&W Part 2. I still don't
like the tones/mix of YNM. Different is cool, but...
David wrote:
>I was in Israel and the shopman told me that the new DT's album will be
>avaiable there in a week........is possible....?!?!?
No way - you can't get a CD pressed in a week. Just because the
recording's done doesn't mean that the CD is ready to go. Cover art,
etc...
>
Pat wrote & quoth:
>Mike Blevins wrote:
>>BTW, there is some truth to the rumor that there's going to be a prog
>>metal festival in Maryland later this year. That's all I can say, except
>>for knowing that a popular band from Brazil is supposed to be playing...
>>:)
>
>What?
>
>You are not allowed to give information like that and then say "That's
>all I can say"...
Well, being the person with the information, YES I CAN. :)
Talk to me at Fates.
>
>Well, what's the deal with the pre Fates Ytse get together this Friday
>August 8th?
>
>Someone should just pick a time and place to meet and if you can't make
>it then just meet up with everyone at the show.
OK, it's Tuesday, so this needs to get done. Anybody for Chi - Chi's on
Old Keene Mill? It's right off the 95 exit, so those of you who don't
know where Jaxx is can find it easily. I _may_ be able to make it,
depending on what's going on at the club.
>
>4 days until Fates/Divine Regale/Division/???
I knew I liked this guy. Now HE plugs my band. :)
>
>Only 50 days until FII comes out...
That's 4,274,940 seconds - but who's counting... :)
Mike
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:46:18 -0400
From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Production and Kevin Shirley
Message-ID: <199708051648.MAA21119@zork.tiac.net>
> Quite simply - and I know this is only a 22khz recording, but still -
> the production SUCKS.
You sir, are being a dick AND you're a Fucking Idiot. Normally I don't care
if people are critics about the band's new material, I don't really even
like YNM that much, but to judge the production of a song on a low quality
audio file??? That's ridiculous! It's like judging the quality of the Last
Supper on a CGA monitor with 8 colors! Use your brain a little.
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:13:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: JE78674@ltu.edu
To: YTSEJAM@ax.com
Subject: Fates Warning....next week
Message-ID: <01IM2YCBTQWI8WW1V9@LTU.EDU>
Hey there.....I keep hearing how great the FW show has been...I'm
going to see them on the 14th here in MI. Just one question.....
I bought two copies of APSOG to support the band....I was thinking about
getting my second copy autographed by them. The question is, are the
guys in the band OK with giving autographs out especially after playing
an entire set? Thanks for any help.
Jeff E.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:17:24 -0400
From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Sick of people bitching. So let me bitch a little more. :
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805131724.00ef9b30@pophost.fore.com>
>Heh... And with all the great playing in the middle of Metropolis it's
>still boring. So it looks like we're at an impasse. As a general rule,
>when the instrumental section of Met. comes along, I go grab a book and
>read it until UAGM comes on. *yawn* I honesty can wait a real long time
>to hear Metropolis II. So don't expect me to run to the stores when it
>comes out. I'll just stop by the bookstand first. Mebbe pick up the uncut
>version of The Stand or something... ;)
What a load of shit. I can't believe there are actually people out there
who think this part is BORING. I can understand you not liking the part
(barely), but that doesn't make it boring. Everytime I listen to that
part, I pick up something new. Or I'm able to keep up with the drums for
an extra measure. To me, the middle of Metropolis is the best
representative of Dream Theater. Metropolis would be much more boring
without this part. Can't wait for Met II. Have fun at the bookstore...and
you call yourself a fan.
KAI
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:27:59 -0300 (EST)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@linux.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: RTK, new DT stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970805142437.5319B-100000@turing.ime.usp.br>
On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, Ernesto Schnack wrote:
> is RTK in PT the same as on Guitar Talkin', or does it have vocals?
"Raise the Knife" on Precious Things is the shorter (3 minutes)
version, while the version on "Guitar Talkin'" is 11 minutes long. And
PT's version has no vocals also.
Both have about the same sound quality, with the PT's version a
bit (only marginally) better.
Hope this helps, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:29:37 EDT From: bogie@MIT.EDU To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: I am sick of lurking!!! Part 1 - The Bitching Message-ID: <9708051729.AA26308@skimble.MIT.EDU>
Alright,
I usually can tolerate some of the stupid, incoherent comments made on this mailing list, but now I'm getting fed up with these unformulated opinions.
----- Steffen Barabasch said: >Maybe some of you remember or even recorded the demo version during one of the >clinics some time ago. Listen to this "old" version again, then to the studio >version, and hear the difference. The original version was a kick-ass, groovy, >heavy song. But now, the radio-samples which gave the song this cool >industrial-touch, the simple but fitting singalong-chorus, all gone. Instead >they did it again, inserted a boring standard chorus that doesn't match the >rest of the song at all. (Listen to the different keys! Sounds like another >song!)
You know what? Maybe some of us never heard the demo version of "You Not Me". You say that it sounds like another song. The key word here is "demo". That was not the final version, and maybe the band wasn't satisfied with the demo version. Deal with it - they changed the song whether you like it or not, and don't try to shove it down our throats that the demo of this song was better. I for one have never heard the demo, so I am not graciously honored as you to have heard this wonderful demo you talk about.
----- Steffen Barabasch said: >DISCLAIMER: This is my very humble opinion, so please don't feel offended. I >never said you suck because you possibly like this song. It's not the song >itself that sucks, either. It's just this VERY strange and weak version. >I just want to know WHAT HAPPENED!
Some things are better left unsaid than saying them and stating "Please don't be offended". That is just as bad as a man telling his wife "Honey, promise you won't be mad" to which she nods her head only to find that he has had an affair. It's just not fair. Next time, if you feel that some people may be offended by what you are saying, don't say it at all.
Steffen Barabasch said: >Erm, there was an instrumental section that was cut out. And hey, this >section even reappeared in an instrumental song later. The difference is >that this ex-PMU-section fitted a dozen times better in Erotomania, so it >really was an improvement.
Right, so now that you've actually heard the new versions of Burning My Soul and Hell's Kitchen, you really think this is not an improvement? Am I right? Oh wait...you haven't heard either of them, have you??? Hmmm...
Steffen Barabasch said: >I guess that the big majority of people here on the list just CAN'T wait
Yes, you're right, most of the people cannot wait for the new album to come out, but most of them can wait to formulate opinions after its release.
----- Arash Ashouriha said: >Hi >My english is not good :-))))) >DT have cut one of their best song's "Burning My Soul" ?!?!? >I'm new in this list. Have DT Cut any other song as well ? >Now I don't like MP anymore. > (cut for the sake of ignorance)
No comment.
----- Mike Blevins said: >Where the hell is Derek? Petrucci is almost non - existent ('cept for >the wah parts - gotta keep that "alternative radio" sound going), but >are there keyboards on this? I can't here anything but bass (how odd!), >snare, vox, and a bit of kick drum. >Quite simply - and I know this is only a 22khz recording, but still - >the production SUCKS. Sounds just like every "hot" song right now. I've >heard his other stuff, and I didn't like the tones much on that, and I >don't like the tones much on this, either. I smell a record company >around here somewhere... >And who mixed this thing? Cripes... The band has a guitarist and >keyboardist, it'd be nice to HEAR them.
Let's see - I hear Sherinian, I hear Petrucci. I don't know what you are talking about. As for production, I love when people like to compare a 22kHz recording which streams at 48kBit/s (it should be 128kBit/s which makes the quality even worse - sorry Swifty!) to what the CD will _probably_ sound like. It's like someone listening to the Fix for '96 tapes and saying "Oh, the studio version of Peruvian Skies is going to sound horrible".
You've heard Kevin Shirley's other stuff? How about Aerosmith's last album, Nine Lives? I thought that album was well produced, but you know, that is just my opinion. Just like you have your own opinion. But I'm not about to base my opinion on an illegitimate recording. That is such an ignorant point of view. Right now - I have _no_ opinion on the production because I have nothing to back me up. There is no logical way you can base an opinion on nothing.
----- Mike Blevins said: >OK, now that I've probably p*ssed MP off, I have to wonder - how much >control over the mix do they have? Probably not much, judging by the >reactions to I&W and Awake, and I think it shows here, as well. When >will labels learn - well, OK, they won't ever, but it's nice to dream...
When will labels learn? Did the label pick the producer??? No. Were I&W and Awake poorly produced? I consider Awake (as do many audiophiles) to be one of the best produced albums ever because of its clean tones. But, of course, that's just another opinion. However, that is an opinion based on a legitimate recording which makes it more substantial than your view on YNM being poorly produced.
-----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 13:30:04 EDT From: bogie@MIT.EDU To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: I am sick of lurking!!! Part 2 - Other stuff Message-ID: <9708051730.AA26315@skimble.MIT.EDU>
ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER *
On a lighter note, I decided to post Psyence's and my interpretation of the You Not Me lyrics. Here they are for your viewing pleasure:
You Not Me - Dream Theater Lyrics by John Petrucci
Being around you is driving me crazy Watching you run is making me lazy Trying to find peace in my head Selling me lines you've already read Speaking my name you try to confuse me Say it again you're starting to lose me
That's alright, I'm okay It happens every single day It's all the same, but I'm not blind
It's all about you not me It's all about the things that you're expecting me to be There's not enough time to live With all that you're expecting me to give It's all about you not me It's all about you not me
Building my prison brick by brick Eating your words is making me sick You get what you want without being sacred Reading my mind and leaving me naked Today I got to give before I receive it Why do these people believe it?
It's all about you not me It's all about the things that you're expecting me to be There's not enough time to live With all that you're expecting me to give It's all about you not me It's all about you not me
That's alright, I'm okay It happens every single day It's all the same, but I'm not blind
It's all about you not me It's all about the things that you're expecting me to be There's not enough time to live With all that you're expecting me to give It's all about you not me It's all about you not me It's all about you not me
ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER * ANDREW MILLER - SPOILER *
----- Now that I'm done with my bitching:
Michael Pomerleau said: >On another note. I saw "THE WHO" at the Meadows in Hartford on >Saturday. Excellent show!!! Daltry's Voice was excellent, and John >Entwhistle is an exceptional bassist. If they roll through your town, >dont miss them!!!
I happened to catch the show in Chicago and it was excellent. For those of you not familiar with their tour this time around, they are performing their rock opera "Quadrophenia" for the first time on a tour. They were supposed to take "Quadrophenia" on the road in the mid 70s, but due to technical problems with their tapes they were unable to pull off such a feat.
If you like good classic rock, this would be a good show to catch. Besides, you get the chance to see a bassist who puts John Myung's little bass solo in Metropolis I to shame when he does a 4 minute bass solo in the middle of "5:15". That's why they call John Entwistle "Thunderfingers" though. Of course, Daltrey and Townshend are excellent too. And Ringo Starr's son, Zak Starkey, does an excellent job on drums replacing the late Keith Moon.
----- Chris Ptacek said: >Anyone ever notice that Ytsejammers seem to be the bitchiest most >whining little ungrateful maggots ever to walk the earth?
Heheheh - this is why living in the south suburbs of Chicago is awesome. Everyone here is sick of everyone else's shit. :) ----- Dr. Mosh said: >I will reserve my opinion till after the album is released...
At least someone else besides me is going to do this. Thanks, Mosh!
----- <sigh>
I needed to vent. And, there are no disclaimers attached to this message. So, if I offended someone, I probably had good reason to. I'm sick and tired of people posting to the Jam before they even think about what they are saying and how people are going to react to it. If I pissed you off in any way after you read this message, I meant to do it. It's to prove a point - the way you feel right now is how I felt reading what you wrote. Except I thought about the feelings I wanted to convey in you. So, next time before you submit something to the Jam, take a couple seconds to look over what you wrote. It'll help everyone out.
Thank you.
Bogie
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2823 **************************
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