YTSEJAM Digest 2825
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2823
by ASHUSTER@LOYOLA.EDU
2) RE: Ptacek, production, football, YNM
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
3) Re: Opinions...
by Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
4) You not me..
by NightCast <nightcast@usa.net>
5) Pro Duck shun
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
6) Winplay3
by Extreme908@aol.com
7) Re: Sick of people bitching. So let me bitch a little more. :
by "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
8) reply to mr. mike
by omeraron@mail.netvision.net.il
9) Opinions
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
10) Unclassified: Re: YNM
by Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
11) I love You Not Me
by "sykes" <sykes@inwave.com>
12) You Not Me clarifications
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2824
by Navin Systems <hazzy@best.com>
14) Re: You Not Me
by Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
15) Mike's STUFF FOR SALE
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:38:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ASHUSTER@LOYOLA.EDU
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2823
Message-ID: <01IM33G658J6001HHF@LOYOLA.EDU>
Ok.
Sorry for taking up the jam with this -- but I seem to remember that
there were some people on here that used to be on ISCA -- if you were, then
you know what I'm talking about -- anyways, I cannot seem to connect anymore
is it just me or what?
Please reply in mail... bye, and thanks.
-martin (ashuster@loyola.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:27:20 -0400
From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: Ptacek, production, football, YNM
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-970805202720Z-176@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
Chris scribbled.
>> There's a problem. It's not about art, it's about money. Most of the band's
>>members have
>> families now, and they have to make compromises to SELL their music.
>
> I'm so glad we have someone here who can see completely into the minds of
>the band.
>It would be so unfortunate if we actually thought DT had integrity, and
>played what they
>wanted to play. I thank you for letting us know that DT wrote that song, and
>hopefully the
>whole album for the sole purpose of making a buck, as opposed to making the
>music that they
>want to make.
> I must have misread Portnoy... he mentioned that if DT ever sold out, to
>shoot him.
>He must have meant that if DT NEVER sold out that we should shoot him,
>because obviously our
>psychic friend has shown us that this is their intent.
Leave it Ptacek to give us a bitter bit of sarcasm. I hope.
Pat wrote...
>4 days until Division with Fates and Divine Regale... :)
Hey, you finally got it in the right order! :)
>
Ptacek again...
>> look this gift horse in the mouth. Keep your complaints to yourself, at
>> least until everyone else has a copy of FiI on which to form their own
>> opinions and weigh them against yours.
>
> No way, man. We're Ytsejammers. Whomever can state his or her opinion
>using more
>curse words than the others wins!
Yeah - you f**king **shole!
>
>> I can hear them very well, if I block out a SNARE that's louder than the
>> lead vocal track.
>
> Could that be the MP3 quality? No way...
Could be, but I have the same problem with the Journey and Areosmith
stuff I've heard. C'mon, I did a little homework before making an ass
out of myself. :)
>
> I respect what you're saying, and I think that you give a better case than
>most of the
>whiners out there as to why you're saying what you're saying. There's no way
>and simply no
>REASON to make you like YNM... but to piss on the team that made this album
>for it, and to
>piss on DT, and talk shit about the band for making one song that you don't
>like, is stupid,
>don't you agree? Some people don't. Maybe we're getting a little bit
>spoiled. I remember
>when buying a cd that had 3 songs that I liked was a big victory... there's
>not that many
>bands that are really infallible...
You're going to have to stop saying things like that. I'm actually
developing some respect for you. :)
(BTW, I still consider three songs at least a holding action, if not a
victory)
>
Eric wrote...
>>I agree with Awake being a good one, with the exception of the snare
>>being a little dry for my tastes, and the seven string guitar stuff
>>being a bit muddy. I&W would have been even better, if it didn't have
>>triggered drums. I was _hoping_ for a whole album that was more like a
>>cleaner ACOS - my favorite in terms of the "blending" of the tones, if
>>not the "cleanest". I guess I just like layering...
>
>
>I think if you put Awake's drums in the ACOS mix, it'd be perfect. I
>honestly can hardly listen to ACOS because of that snare drum. But, we've
>been down this beaten path...haven't we? If FII has that piccolo snare,
>somebody please tell me, so I can avoid buying the album.
Well, at least YNM doesn't sound like a piccolo, although it is a bit
basketball - y (how's that for a technical term?)
Look, gang - I LIKE THE SONG. OK? I was humming it this morning. Even
with KS producing ( :) ), I'd still rather hear this than virtually
anything else that's come out this year. I know I'll be standing in line
at Tower at 12:01 on a certain Tuesday morning...
That is so cool for those of us who need instant gratification!
BTW, two Ytsejam football league spots are still open - sign up now!
http://espnet.sportzone.com
(If you think we're competitive here... :)
Mike - currently auditioning for Ytseasshole of the month!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:21:41 +0200
From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Opinions...
Message-ID: <33E74505.91A1A5C6@algonet.se>
> From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
>
> > Strong words for this crew, but opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has
> > one!
>
> No, they are like nipples.
>
> Ernie
>
everyone has three?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:39:39 -0600
From: NightCast <nightcast@usa.net>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: You not me..
Message-ID: <01BCA18B.E2FBA540@slc170.modem.xmission.com>
This song kicks ass! I just finished getting it about 10 minutes ago =
and I like it a lot! I noticed it kind of sounds like it's skipping, =
but that could've just been the way it was recorded to wav or =
compressed.. or is this how it actually sounds? Or maybe it's even my =
player just messing up. At any rate I like it. James does kind of =
sound nasal in this one because of the harmonization but it's not to the =
point where it sounds bad. =20
One bitch: This song is going to make the minutes until September 23th =
THAT much longer. Now that I've had a taste, I'm all the more hungry. =
Thanks to the guys who made this one possible!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:00:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Pro Duck shun
Message-ID: <199708052100.QAA26258@enteract.com>
That idiot Mike Portnoy guy didn't know what he was talking about! The production on this
song sucks bad, so it doesn't matter that he said each song was done individually and will
sound different drum-wise and everything. I bet the whole album's just gonna be a cd-rom of
low quality MP3s too!
Let's boycott the album until DT sells out and does what WE want, instead of what THEY want!
C'mon everyone! Get yer picketing signs ready now!
--
Chris Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C -- (773) 248 8511
http://www.enteract.com (business)
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman/ (my contribution to
--------------------------------- the vast wealth of
"To err is human... to suck out | underdeveloped
one's brain with an orally | web sites)
deployed flesh tube is not."-MS| ****************
---------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:39:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Extreme908@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Winplay3
Message-ID: <970805173751_380339762@emout04.mail.aol.com>
Could someone please send me a copy of Winplay3 in a zipped file? I need a
registered copy. Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:40:50 -0600
From: "Korg Eksthrey" <KorgX3@cyberhighway.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Sick of people bitching. So let me bitch a little more. :
Message-ID: <199708052146.OAA00721@odin.ax.com>
>What a load of shit. I can't believe there are actually people out there
>who think this part is BORING.
Hell, I didn't say hated the song, I just said the middle part is boring.
Prog is good, but IMO it should be served in small quantities else
indigestion occurs. There is a point to which you can listen to so much
obscure pontillated playing that you become mindfucked. I hope to avoid
that in the futre. (Whew!)
>One bitch: This song is going to make the minutes until September 23th =
>THAT much longer. Now that I've had a taste, I'm all the more hungry. =
>Thanks to the guys who made this one possible!
See! You don't have to break out the Pepto for Falling into Infinite!
>Have fun at the bookstore...and you call yourself a fan.
Nah, it's fanboy. :)
>I think if you put Awake's drums in the ACOS mix, it'd be perfect. I
>honestly can hardly listen to ACOS because of that snare drum. But,
we've
>been down this beaten path...haven't we? If FII has that piccolo snare,
>somebody please tell me, so I can avoid buying the album.
And you call yourself a fan... heheh...
KorgX3
KorgX3@cyberhighway.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 00:54:47 PDT
From: omeraron@mail.netvision.net.il
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: reply to mr. mike
Message-ID: <Chameleon.970806005627.omeraron@>
the little and annoying mike wrote:
> Omeraron wrote...
>
> >well hello there ytsejamers...
> >this is your massenger from israel talking,
> >i have few things to say to you guys so listen up:
>
> I'm not even going to touch this one... I might burn myself! :)
well,well,well,i write something about DT that people maybe find
intresting,and a ZILLION years later somebody replay on that fucking
israel thing?
oh mike you're good!
anyway,does somebody else have a proplem with the mp3 of you not me?
please help me!! i gotta hear the damn song! i listen to the same 4
album they do have for the 11,243,456.11 times and that's getting a
little annoying...
youres truely,
omer
omeraron@netvision.net.il
mr. geddy lee said once:
"because he was human,because he had goodness,
because he was mortal,they called him insane."
from cinderella man
nice things he say,don't he?
just wanted you to know,thats all....
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:57:49 -0400
From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Opinions
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970805215749.0069fed8@pop.pipeline.com>
Everything with music is going to be a matter of perspective and opinion.
Otherwise everone would like the same music, and have the same favorites, which
obviously is not the case. I find it a bit strange that opinions would be formed
based on some sort of raw internet sound file regarding production value. For
example, I listened to Bruce Dickinson's "Accident of Birth" on Real Audio, and I
was just full of questions about its production values. Suprise, suprise, it
turned out to sound about one hundred times better on my stereo.
I am not advocating keeping one's opinions to oneself, only that we perhaps reserve crushing conclusions until the (not to mix a metaphor - ah, what the hell) paint is dry. If you think the album/song/production (or in my case, probably, the vocal performance - NOTE: I go publicly on record as disliking JLB's vocals, and if anyone *ever* sees me knobbing him after a concert, feel free to smash me like a fucking pancake, boy <tm, happy fun ball>) sucks, by all means express your opinions, but please try to be intelligent, witty (if possible), and most of all, considerate of others. Translation: leave the personal "you are a dick" type shit out. If you disagree, rebut intelligently. If you agree, great.
CD of the day: Y&T - Musically Incorrect
Green Bay Packers - 1996-97 Super Bowl Champions
2-0 Preseason.
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:30:23 +1000
From: Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Unclassified: Re: YNM
Message-ID: <4A2564EA.007AD771.00@nschq-e-navy.navy.gov.au>
Yeah I am getting mighty pissed off with all you so called DT fans slamming
Kevin Shirley for his production on the new material, concidering that
unless you are lucky enough to have the promo CD, you've only heard the
edit of YNM over the internet, how the FUCK can you give a sensible opinion
of the production from that ?
okay Lars, what are the facts ?
Why don't you give Journey's last album that Kevin produced a listen,
sounds damn good to me.
Think before you start shitting on Kev, can you who are slamming him do a
better job.
No so shut the fuck up complaining, if you don't like it, then don't buy
the album, leave the rest of us to enjoy the new DT.
Let's just wait till September 23rd before we crucify the guy, okay ?
gRaham.
Sorry for my tone, but I have to stand up for a fellow Aussie :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:56:45 -0500
From: "sykes" <sykes@inwave.com>
To: "The Ytse Jam" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: I love You Not Me
Message-ID: <199708052253.RAA23389@iria.inwave.com>
OK I've been listening to YNM for about a day now, and here are my first
impressions.
When I heard the opening wah guitar thing, it IMMEDIATELY reminded me of
Rage Against the Machine. The guitar just has that sound/tone to it. Holy
JM! I hope he is this far up in the mix on the whole album. I think the
verse lyris are very well crafted, kind of in the angry 'Lie' vein. The
chorus is also very good, not utterly simplistic like a Dickenson era
Maiden chorus; (btw, I love Maiden) it's catchy and repetitive, but they
slide some really good lines in there too. I think the chorus is far
better than other choruses they have wrote. (CiaW, for one) The solo is
shorter than we might expect from JP, but it fits very well with the song.
Very groovy, kind of reminds me of a Steve Morse solo on Deep Purple's
'Purpendicular"
Overall, I think this is a great song with good potential for airplay on
AOR stations. I guess I'm lucky to have two hard rock stations in my area,
so I expect to be hearing this a lot.
-doug
Anyone going to the 8/17 Fates gig at the House of Blues know what their
policy is toward underage people, my friend is 20, and we are wondering if
he is going to need a fake ID to get in.
Thanks!
| sykes@inwave.com |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:55:02 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: You Not Me clarifications
Message-ID: <199708052255.PAA15494@goodnet.com>
Well, now that the Child thing has been blabbed, I can speak up
about it (I had known about it for months, but been sworn to secrecy). If
I recall correctly what my band connection explained to me, You Or Me was
rewritten by Desmond Child into It's All About You. Mike and James wanted
it heavier so they scrapped much of what DC did to make You Not Me. So the
final product _should_ be mainly DT's work. We'll know for sure when the
album comes out, I guess.
As for me "sucking up to the band"... uh, I don't think so.
Whoever it was that said that should really read some back-issues of the
Jam. I call 'em as I see 'em. Of all the people in this world that knows
how NOT to be a "typical fan groupie" in the presence of bands, I'm right
there.
Anyway, DT showed us with IAW and Awake that they can put together
awesome tunes that had a lot to them. With FII they may be showing us that
they can put together awesome tunes with more impact and less digression.
If the rest of the album sucks, you'll hear about it from me. I
for one don't get excited about "Burning My Soul" (too ordinary) but most
of the other songs I already dig bigtime.
- Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Navin Systems <hazzy@best.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2824
Message-ID: <199708052307.QAA01102@shell3.ba.best.com>
Ok well I haven't actually replied or sent any messages to this list (so I
don't even know if this will work), but I need to join in the action :)
Actually I want to comment on Dt's choice of Producer; Kevin
Shirley. Well, this is the thing. I've heard a lot of you complaining
about the production and the quality, etc.. (even for a 22khz mpeg3 with
48khz/sec streaming). This is simply a matter of Analog V.S. Digital
sound. Some people like Analog, and some people like digital. ALL of
Kevin Shirley's producing efforts (with the exception of Rush's
Counterparts) has been done in the analog domain. (this is just a known
fact about Kevin Shirley, and his recording ethic). SO almost invariably,
FII has been "analogued."
What's the difference in sound between analog and digital you say?
Well I'll break it up simply for you:
Digital: It's just that. Music in 1's and 0's. During the
recording process, everything is recorded algorithmatically. The digital
domain has "built in" error correction (feeding in 1's and 0's) and will
also be susceptible to "peak dumps." Which basicall;y means recording at
a level too "hot" for the microphone(s)/mixer. However, I digital is a
matter of taste. Some people really like the clean "produced" digital
sound. Everything is a bit sharper, and the clarity is unmatched (of
course). But some people prefer analog. Here's why.
Analog: Music is "printed" on to a magnetic tape. Sound
"saturation occurs" (which is the same as recording too hot in digital).
However, this is GOOD in analog recording because where in digital you
would hear an ugly breakup in sound, in analog you get tape saturation
which adds warmth and "character." (or so they say). Analog sound is
also susceptible to flows and other recording "illnesses." Also, with
analog you get noise. (now it can be reduced, but it is never actually
taken away).
So, how does this translate as far as sound? If you like sharp
biting snare sounds (similar to AWAKE), then go digital. If you like in
your face guitar (sharp), then go digital. If you like clear "in front of
the mix" vocals, go ANALOG. So as you can see, there is goods and bads to
both. The human ear can only hear analog sound (waveform), and all
digital has to be converted via D/A converters anyways. So it's a matter
of recording sound that really only makes the difference. But any good
mixing engineer can make digital sound analog, or vice versa.
So as this relates to YNM? Well, it doesn't. You can't tell in
22khz, expecially when the original recording was one in 44khz. (but you
see, this is analog, so when you convert it back on to your computer from
CD (which stores digital rather then a tape storing analog), the computer
uses a A/D converter and converts it back. All this converting only makes
the song sound more muddy.
Someone said that the loud snare was getting in the way of the
vocals? I have two words for that. TAPE SATURATION. You see, the lows
(plosives) get saturated less, and therefore the highs are more up close.
Snare drums are high pitched (for the most part), so that is why that may
be the case. As far as an MP3 being the cause? It is actually a
possibility. It depends on the quality of A/D converter our fellow
ytsejammer used when putting this thing onto MP3. (in other words, I
doubt he mixed down the cd to dat, put an optical cable in a digital input
of a digital sound card, recorded digtial into a program like sound forge,
and then converted that digital sound to a wav file.
SO, what is being said is this. GIVE THE CD A CHANCE. Wait till
that comes out. Sound quality can be manipulatwed in many forms. From
headphones, to speakers to recording, to your own ears. (anyone here have
tinnitus?). Put your fingers in yoru ears, and if you hear even the
slightest low rumbling noise, that's how much bass you are adding to a
song. And that is how much "natural clarity" you are losing.
So, there was a psuedo-technical explanation to some of your
arguments. If you don't understand me, well then, don't complain about
the song. If you do, then you shoudl already know enough about sound
quality to know not to pass judgement. Now as far as the performance of
the song.. Well.. now that is completly valid for arguments, but let m,e
tell you one last thing. In the studio, it is very common to make
"several" mixes. This does NOT waste session time. A mixing engineer can
remix say a song like MaSTER of Puppets, to sound like Peter Cetera if he
wanted to. So just wait, and Take the Time :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:07:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: You Not Me
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970805190307.26410A-100000@umbc8.umbc.edu>
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Pat Daugherty wrote:
> Another Day was IMO the perfect song to get radio airplay. It got some
> but very little. I don't think it matters what DT puts out. Nothing will
> get much airplay at all.
Yeah, if DT made a conscious attempt to "sell out" and it showed in their
music (ie. they sounded exactly like Bush), then yes, they would get
airplay. But they are not going to get much airplay by just making a long
song shorter. It still has the DT trademark right? I haven't heard "you
not me" but it's still DT I assume. And what radio station would play DT?
caller: "Can you please play some Dream Theater?"
DJ: Dream who??? I got The Spice Girls!!! How 'bout that?
caller: dial tone...
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:54:43 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mike's STUFF FOR SALE
Message-ID: <199708052354.QAA21805@goodnet.com>
MIKE'S STUFF SALE
Star Wars - SNES - Playstation - etc.
This is my sale of stuff. Lots of good stuff. My CDR drive just quit and
since it's sort of my livelihood, I needed to replace it, and doing so has
put me at an all-time low for available funds. So first offer on this stuff
is gonna take it away.
1. Playstation stuff
I have for sale a modified (chipset) Sony Playstation. Includes
two controllers and games: Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 2, King of
Fighters '95, Namco Museums 2 and 3, Crash Bandicoot. Total $170.
Now what a modded PSX means is that the system can play not only
normal USA games, but also Japanese and Asian PSX games, games
copied to CDR, you get the picture. You don't have to do the swap
trick because the mod chip takes care of it. Again, $170 for all.
2. SNES stuff
I have for sale a SNES with a console copier and about 100 games.
You'll have no problem downloading more off the web. (just search
for "emulators+ROM+SNES" and you'll find the stuff). I have the
following games on cart: Starfox, SFA2, Empire Strikes Back, Super
Metroid, and Zelda 3, Mario All Stars, Castlevania IV, and japanese
carts of Dracula 4, Dragonball Z 1, 2, and 3, and then about another
90 to 100 games on floppy that you load into the copier and play
normally. The copier is a Super UFO 7.3 with 34MB of RAM, and has
Hirom support and breaks most cart copy protections, so it plays
just about any SNES game except those with special hardware like
Mario Kart, SFA2, Starfox, etc. which you'll notice I picked up on
cart for that very reason. It's about the most advanced copier out
there, roughly equal to the Wildcard-DX. It will play games in any
copier format... Wildcard DX, Magicom, Game Doctor, Pro Fighter,
whatever they happen to be in. Plus, two Asciipads and a
super Jojo SF2-style joystick. Total price for all: $400.
3. Star Wars stuff
I've been collecting POTF2 for a while, and I gotta give it up for
the money thing. So I'm selling these figures at basically bargain-
basement prices. They're all on their original cards where carded,
and the loose ones are, well, loose.
Carded = all from wave 1 to the Emperor/Bib/Han/Lando/Fleet Trpr
wave from May and June. All mint. Plus deluxes. We're
talking like 39 or 40 carded figs here. Plus 3-4 extras.
Loose = same as carded, minus Bib Fortuna. Plus Han Stormtrooper
(from Froot Loops) x 5, plus spirit of Ben Kenobi. Includes
the tan-vest Jedi Luke and half-circle Boba Fett. (the carded
versions are normal). Plus a dozen vintage figures, mint.
Plus extra Stormtroopers & similar Imperials + Probot.
Vehicles = most of them. Vintage Snowspeeder mint with box, then all
mint from POTF2: Xwing, TIE, Falcon, T16, Outrider, Slave 1,
Vader's TIE, Landspeeder, Speeder Bikes w/Luke and Scout,
Swoop, Death Star playsets, and new Snowspeeder, and ATST.
Additional = all Action Fleet through March '97, mint.
All of this for the absurdly low price of $500.
4. Other stuff
Authentic two-handed sword, very high quality - $200.
We'll work out shipping... if the order comes in fast enough, I may
just spring for it. Let me know if you want any of these packages.
-Mike Bahr, durnik@goodnet.com
DISCLAIMER: It's illegal to use video game ROMs you don't own. So whatever
you do with the ones I'm selling is your decision, and I Can't be held
responsible. As for the sword, you can use it legally in almost all states.:)
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2825
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