YTSEJAM Digest 2826
Today's Topics:
1) Just read the fucking thing x 3 = you _could_ get it => :)
by caber1@concentric.net
2) Re: Post.
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
3) YNM
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
4) Trevor/Love Lies Bleeding
by "Blondie Smurf" <cyradis1@hotmail.com>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2825
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
6) HOUSTON YTSEVENING August 8th
by cmustard@vonl.com (Mark Lampert)
7) Hmmmm
by "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
8) ARE MORON again, and, Mike bashing
by caber1@concentric.net
9) Opinions & Aging
by "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu>
10) Yot Nor Me
by Steffen Barabasch <TheMirror@westend.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 19:22:27 -0700
From: caber1@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Just read the fucking thing x 3 = you _could_ get it => :)
Message-ID: <33E93162.3E28@concentric.net>
Hi everyone,
Well, subject is kinda weird, I know. But read this, and, you _could_
get it. => :)
> From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
> Subject: RE: production, and a bit of crow being served...
> While the low quality sound file makes me think that the _tones_ (i.e.
> the production, depending on who you ask) will probably be OK - upon
> further reflection from the post you are referring to - I don't think
> the mix will be, IN MY OPINION. I _hated_ the Journey album's mix - it
> sounds weak IN MY OPINION - so that probably colors me a bit. But I
> think I can extrapolate, based on his earlier work, a "reasonable
> approximation" of what it _could_ sound like.
So, what are you saying? That the production _could_ suck, IYO. Y = your
/me praises God for giving him a brain.
> I had an emotional reaction, based on what I thought might happen with
> the choice of producer. I'm pretty sure I _won't_ like the mix of the
> whole album if it's along these lines - and I hope it won't be. My
> apologies if some people took this to be stupidity or (later) ignorance
> - I shoot from the hip. It's a personality trait that makes me hard to
> deal with at times.
Okay, the production is different on every song. The production is
different on every song. The production is different on every song.
Okay, so now that everyone has read the above and still doesn't get the
point that the production is different on every song, I'll move on.
Everyone settle down. Alot of people are getting really mad. This
remembers me of a famous line from the adventures of Y&J part 2 "This is
religion for some people." Does this put it in perspective? This stuff
your reading is just junk. Really, just 0's and 1's. But I won't go into
that. If it helps just add in your mind a smily face after whatever gets
you ticked off. Or use private mail. [add smily here] If anyone missed
the theme in this paragraph it's to SHUT THE FUCK UP OR I'M GOING TO
FLATTEN YA LIKE A FUCKING PANCAKE!!!
That is a test. That is a test. That is a test.
____
> From: Jon Parmet <jonp@wicked.stigmata.org>
> Subject: The best is yet to come
> People who have "gotten with the program" take a lot of the whining for what
> it's worth.....that is: it ain't worth shit :)
Anybody else think this before he posted it? :)
yep, I'm going to quote from ANOTHER :) Jon(without an 'h' to boot :)
again. Because it's worth reading again.
> From: Jon <budda@PioneerPlanet.infi.net>
> Subject: Stupid People, Sorry DT there eveywhere in this world.
> Everyone shut up. I mean come on listen to all these I don't know what
> to call em's? "They changed! It's so commercial!" "Change is good"
> people they have changed but not in the direction your thinkin of.
> Peruvian Skies is actually longer than the demo version, so is Just Let
> Me Breathe. They also recorded each song until it was done. So any
> complaints or worries about sound um well, they could change with each
> new song! I've heard 5 new songs and 1 Burning My Soul is the only peel
> and paste they have done. Remember that it's pasted back on somewhere
> else. Like I said people don't open your mouth or even think about
> complaining until the CD has come out. By then I'm going to be hearing
> all this ass kissing and the like. By then all you sorry ignorant people
> will have sounded stupid too. I hope they forgive all you cuz you know
> not what you say!
This is my .sig until the CD comes out! :) Seriously, I think the album
will be good. I mean DT has in the past given us great music. Stuff I
listen to many times over and over again. I still like every song. I can
say without worrying about LIEing :) that I look forward to hearing what
JLB will sound like. What DS is going to be like. What MP will be
breaking this time. If JP can amaze me, again! That JM will beat
everyone into the ground with his tone & stick! :)
This is a big 180 degree turn in DT's career. We've been waiting for
this album a long time now. This album is also probably going to decide
if DT will be kicked from their current label or not. This album will
show off if DS will make the grade with fans. This album will be JM's
first recording with the Chapman Stick. This is will be the first album
that the band records song by song. This is the album where JP will go
back to playing that little whiny thing with 6 strings. :) This (from
what I've read here) is the album where JLB is going to try out
different effects for his vocals. Hmm, who did I miss? Oh yeah, the
drummer, what's his name :), this will be the album where he gets to
show off and screw with the beat so much that I'll never be able to play
6:00! Wait, that happened already.
___
A lot of you people are like those people who get upset when it rains.
They don't think that it'll cool everything off. That might be a bad
ANNALEE(analogy :), but, hopefully you get what I'm talking about.
If you're wondering where that rain thing came up, I'll tell you. It's
been raining this whole summer. And we've had a decent summer,
temperture wise. I work at a camp, and when it rains all I hear from a
bunch of 8 year olds is how "it sucks." Not that I'm saying any jammer
acts like a 8 year old. My fingers are tired, so just read that last
line over two more times.
___
Remember to add those smily's anywhere that you think that I think that
we think that they think that dat isn't funny. "See all you have to do
is play around with their minds." No jammer acts like a 8 year old. No
jammer...Wait I'll do it for you. => :) Happy? => :) :)
And now you know what the hell my subject was about. :D
John McCabe
caber1@concentric.net
P.S. If the jam that this appears in contains a single digit number of
posts, you can blame me. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:21:06 -0400
From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
To: Christian Albert Schulze <schulze2@mindspring.com>, ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Post.
Message-ID: <33E7C372.28952D@shaw.wave.ca>
Christian Albert Schulze wrote:
> The song doesn't suck. Who said DT is only allowed to write prog
> stuff?
Even for non-prog it sucks! Queensryche did a much better job of trying
to write radio-friendly music than DT did with this song. And it's half
Shirley's fault for making the sound so radio-friendly - the instruments
are just blended together way too much for my taste, and for the
mostpart the guitar just sounds noisy. I hate noisy guitar, I think it
would be so much better if .
> Yeah, but why don't you just fucking wait? It's clear that all you
> want to
> do is piss other people off.
No, what I want to do is express my opinion. I've only pissed you off,
and you're only pissed off because you like the song. I didn't get
pissed off after reading your post about how you like the song, how it
rocks, etc.
> Dude, it's pretty obvious that you have a need to piss people off. If
> one
> fucking song makes you not like a band anymore, than you never were
> much of
> a fan to start with, were you?
Huh? When did I say I'm not a fan? I simply said I do not like this
song, and that I think it's the worst song DT has released on an album
to date. I will never stop listening to WDADU, I&W, and Awake, no
matter how bad this album is. The comment about not liking DT, well, if
they were to keep releasing albums that were full of songs like this
one, of course I would lose a little interest in the band and become
less of a fan of the band. I'd still be a fan of the first 3 albums
though.
> If all you want is a band that is difficult technically, go and listen
> to
> Watchtower, Cynic, finneus gauge. I like DT because they mix emotional
> songs
That's not what I want at all. Echolyn have technically difficult
music, but personally I think they suck. I don't like YNM because (a)
it's simple, (b) it's not very melodic, (c) it's poorly written - too
repetitive - (d) the production stinks, (e) the lyrics aren't very good
by DT's standards.
The thing I've always liked about DT is that they would give you a taste
of something really cool sounding, but they wouldn't repeat that part so
often in a song that you would get bored of it. But in YNM, JP plays
that damn riff with the wah pedal for nearly the whole damn song. That
kind of ruins it for me.
> a while. That's what I did with HitNF and now I see that there's some
> pretty
> good songs in there. There's other stuff there that I don't care for,
> but if
> my only focus is on the things I DON'T like, I won't be helping my
> bands out
I saw there were some pretty good songs on HitNF right away. And I saw
there were more good songs on it later. But that doesn't change the
fact that I still think about half the album sucks. And I've listened
to YNM several times now, and I think the song sucks. Period. No
matter how many times I listen to this song, it still sucks.
> Could that be the MP3 quality? No way...
No, it couldn't. All the lower sampling rate does is make it sound a
bit more muddy, like a casette tape (maybe slightly worse). It doesn't
change the mixing, EQ, etc... just like recording on a video tape in 2
hour mode (extended play or whatever it's called) as opposed to the 6
hour mode will make the picture cleaner and smoother - but you see the
same video, regardles. Also, the MP3 fiile is 1.6 megs, not 25 as some
people have been saying. Even at 28.8 that's only a 10 minute download.
> Hahahah! Well, I doubt you'll think it sucks when you see DT
> live. Would you have
> the ballz to say that to them?
I don't see what the big deal with my criticism is. It's not like I'm
saying DT sucks, or that they sold out (I have said I don't like the
radio-friendly sound, but it's not entirely their fault, music is music,
and it's not going to sound that way live). And they realize they can't
please everyone. I'm also sure though that they realize that
artistically, YNM isn't one of their best works, but as MP said, they
have to sell their music, and these days music is more of a product than
an art.
If I were talking to them in person, no, I wouldn't say "it sucks". I
would however "have the ballz" to express the fact I don't like the song
(I probably wouldn't say that by choice, but if I wanted to...) It's no
different than with anything else. If you see, say, an actor put on a
poor performance in a movie, you might say to your friends "he sucked",
but you.wouldn't say that to the actor if you met him.
The fact that some of the members of the band might be reading this list
should have no influence on what people say. I'm not going to start
sucking up to the band just because MP might possibly be reading what I
say. Because as far as I'm concerned I'm not having a conversation with
him, nor do I mean for him to hear what I say (if I did, I'm sure I
could find ways to contact him in a way that he'd definitely hear me)...
it's just like if you happen to overhear a conversation between two
people and they happen to be saying things about you that you find
offensive, well, you might be upset but you have to deal with it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:38:36 -0400
From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: YNM
Message-ID: <33E7C78C.146B4EBB@shaw.wave.ca>
> unless you are lucky enough to have the promo CD, you've only heard the
> edit of YNM over the internet, how the FUCK can you give a sensible opinion
> of the production from that ?
> okay Lars, what are the facts ?
>
Well, at risk of being a dick... the facts are that you obviously
haven't listened to the MP3 file and don't know much about audio or how
it was recorded.. I mean, it's not like this is a MIDI file, or a WAV
file of part of the song. This is the whole song (except whatever was
edited out, but as I said, you stuck 7:30-8:00 of Metropolis in there I
still wouldn't like it very much).
I'm no audiophile, but the mixing of the instruments is quite audible
regardless of the quality of the recording. After all, the source of
this recording was the CD. Also, while the tone is less crisp than on
the CD, I can clearly hear that Derek is not very prominent in the mix,
MP's snare is too loud, and that I don't like the way JP's guitar
sounds.
Anyway, if you're saying that I can't judge the production because I'm
listening to it as an MP3... then by the same token are you going to say
that people who buy the album on casette (let's just assume people do)
can't give a sensible opinion on the production, because it's not as
high quality as the CD?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 17:54:23 PDT
From: "Blondie Smurf" <cyradis1@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Trevor/Love Lies Bleeding
Message-ID: <199708060054.RAA24004@f60.hotmail.com>
Trevor--lost your email address, but got your tape in the mail about a
week ago. Thanks mucho, it sounds pretty neat.
Don't you hate it when you hear Love Lies Bleeding on the radio, and you
get all excited because you think it's Dream Theater on the radio, and
you get all set to mail the 'jam about this amazing event, and then you
realize it's the orginal version, then you realize how much cooler the
DT version is.
Alison
|\_/|
|@ @|
+--------------vvvV--<o o>--Vvvv-----------------+
| V"V |
| Alison Clark | cyradis1@hotmail.com |
+------------------------------------------------+
| http://members.aol.com/bardtirla/lair.html |
+------------------------------------------------+
| "Death is the first dance eternal. Deceit is |
| the second without end. Love is the dance of |
| eternity..." --John Petrucci |
+------------------------------------------------+
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 20:07:07 -0500
From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2825
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970806010707.00e0c314@pop.enteract.com>
>Leave it Ptacek to give us a bitter bit of sarcasm. I hope.
Sarwhat? Is that terminal?
>> No way, man. We're Ytsejammers. Whomever can state his or her opinion
>>using more
>>curse words than the others wins!
>
>Yeah - you f**king **shole!
*clears throat* ahem.
Fuck you, you fucking fuckfuck.
>You're going to have to stop saying things like that. I'm actually
>developing some respect for you. :)
>(BTW, I still consider three songs at least a holding action, if not a
>victory)
I'm sure my last statement fixed that problem. (BTW, 3 songs is
officially a break even album. 4 is the clincher, in case you needed a
refresher)
>Nah, it's fanboy. :)
As in "Bite me, ya fraggin' fanboy"? (Only older DC comix fans will
comprehend that)
>well,well,well,i write something about DT that people maybe find
>intresting,and a ZILLION years later somebody replay on that fucking
>israel thing?
>oh mike you're good!
Sit down, son. You're trying too hard. You might get hurt.
>From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
>To: ytsejam@ax.com
>Subject: Opinions
>Everything with music is going to be a matter of perspective and opinion.
Everyone knows this. But there's a lack of respect for other
people's opinions, and dammit, that causes bickering.
>example, I listened to Bruce Dickinson's "Accident of Birth" on Real Audio,
and I
>was just full of questions about its production values. Suprise, suprise, it
>turned out to sound about one hundred times better on my stereo.
You're an idiot. The Real Audio version KILLED it! The production
was WAY better.
>Translation: leave the personal "you are a dick" type shit out. If you
disagree, rebut intelligently. If you agree, great.
That wounds me deeply, Kevin. You're being a dick. :)
Someone mentioned the HoB show on 8/17 in Chicago (FATES WARNING!). The
show will be 18 and up, and they do card. Your friend will be fine, but
could you e-mail me with some assistance on fake ids? I know someone who
needs one, especially if it's IL or IN.
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener
A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come
from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG.
They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground
on which idea seeds fall."
- Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:12:59 -0500
From: cmustard@vonl.com (Mark Lampert)
To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: HOUSTON YTSEVENING August 8th
Message-ID: <19970806010851908.AAA208@cmustard.vonl.com>
Ahoy,
Ok! I know this post will be a refresher from the You not Me posts, so
here it is:
----- Friday, August 8th, Houston-based Jammer Hangout -------
Anyone in Houston who hasn't already heard, a few of us Ytsejammer folk
will be gathering at a restaraunt by name of "Texadelphia" just a few
blocks west of Fountainview, next to Mama's Cafe and across from the dollar
theater. Come eat and meet some of the others for a few hours! This is
not a free meal, but it is a good one, and besides, when was the last time
you got to talk about progressive metal with more than one person? Email
me if you are coming, and I'll look into a table reservation! Cheers -
· • Mark • ·
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ryan P. Skadberg" <skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Hmmmm
Message-ID: <199708060115.VAA17722@wicked.stigmata.org>
No fuck you's
No dies
is this reall the ytsejam?
Skadz
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 20:36:58 -0700
From: caber1@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ARE MORON again, and, Mike bashing
Message-ID: <33E942D9.3043@concentric.net>
Hi everyone,
> From: omeraron@mail.netvision.net.il
> Subject: reply to mr. mike
> > I'm not even going to touch this one... I might burn myself! :)
> well,well,well,i write something about DT that people maybe find
> intresting,and a ZILLION years later somebody replay on that fucking
> israel thing?
> oh mike you're good!
You know Mike didn't say anything about anything(let only say anything
about a place "let's say, like Israel")! Mike you just got burned
anyway. :) You should have just made in fun of him before, dOOd. :)
Zillion years = 1 day ok I'll keep that in mind when this guys flames
me. "And a half a zillion years later..."
> mr. geddy lee said once:
> "because he was human,because he had goodness,
> because he was mortal,they called him insane."
> from cinderella man
Why do you quote Rush lyrics at the end of "it." Rush only can sell out,
not write lyrics, I thought you knew that. Rush are TRASH. I put them in
the TRASH CAN. :) Peart, and Kevin Moore are are the only people good
enough to be at the end of my "it." :P
You suck. You suck. You suck. Just add three smily's after that for me
would ya? :)
___
> From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
> Subject: You Not Me clarifications
> Well, now that the Child thing has been blabbed, I can speak up
> about it (I had known about it for months, but been sworn to secrecy). If
Am I the only one who hates Mike? ;-)
> I recall correctly what my band connection explained to me, You Or Me was
> rewritten by Desmond Child into It's All About You. Mike and James wanted
> it heavier so they scrapped much of what DC did to make You Not Me. So the
> final product _should_ be mainly DT's work. We'll know for sure when the
> album comes out, I guess.
Could someone tell me who this Desmond Child guy is? What songs or bands
was he in, in the past?
John McCabe
caber1@concentric.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu>
To: Dream Thespians <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Opinions & Aging
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95b.970805184521.17792C-100000@dante33.u.washington.edu>
> From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
> Subject: me not you
>
> This is my opinion not yours..
>
> I love it!
Yeah! This is my opinion! Not yours! And I love it!
> First question... where did this come from and can we get a less
> compressed version? I know.. I'm nitpicking.. :)
Strange how there are no flanged mp3s.
But if someone truly despised the color red, would it make sense to say
they're filled with hatred?
> Second question.. isnt there about twenty seconds missing from the cd
> version? I wonder where..? I hope the shredding guitar solo...
That was my guest solo. I had them change it at the last minute because
I'm so self-conscious about my playing.
> Lastly.. is it my imagination or is there someone talking during the
> last ten seconds?
Yeah, that was me doing my Jerky Boys impression. I slandered the hell out
of Sherinian, but I had Kevin Shirley backmask it so you won't be able to
make out what I shouted unless you buy the vinyl release and play the
album backwards.
---- > From: "woot" <woot@crypted.com> > Subject: aging, where are you now? > > Well, YNM isn't aging very well, as I'm already tiring of it. I think > it's quite a bit too "accessible." Also, and I realize this was > unavoidable, the comparison between YNM and WAYN comes up. Since IMHO > WAYN is much better than YNM, it seems a shame that WAYN didn't make the > cut. I'm sure the rest of it rules though! woohoo 49 days!!!I'm probably one of the only people on this list who hasn't heard any boots of the Fix For '96 shows, any demos of album tracks, or the "You Not Me" mp3. And when I pop FII into my cd player two months from now it's gonna blow my fool head off. Like blowing some loose dust out of a shotgun barrel and accidentally tripping over the trigger, I swear the big toe is the most dangerous part of the body...
I talked to a guy on the phone about two months ago. I asked him how many demos had made it into the studio. He said, "Everything from the Fix shows.. I've already heard the whole album, it kicks ass! It's a shame `Raising The Knife' didn't make the cut...if you'll pardon the pun..."
I can't imagine wanting to do this. What's the point? Why not just outlaw wrapping paper and get it over with? I think the new album will age just fine, and pardon me while I put on my Ytsegoon halloween mask...
i'm guessing it'll age like fine wine. nah, scratch that, like one of those embarassing-as-all-hell demon farts that gets trapped under the blankets all night long, then comes back to haunt you in the morning.
peace out.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 03:57:12 +0100 From: Steffen Barabasch <TheMirror@westend.com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Yot Nor Me Message-ID: <yam7157.602.137002736@aixrs1.hrz.uni-essen.de>
Hi!
We didn't have such a long post about audio tech for ages. Great topic. ;-)
Chris Ptacek wrote: >It would be so unfortunate if we actually thought DT had integrity, and >played what they >wanted to play. I thank you for letting us know that DT wrote that song, and >hopefully the >whole album for the sole purpose of making a buck, as opposed to making the >music that they >want to make.
If letting Desmond Child rewriting a song isn't a compromise, I don't know what else could be...
I never said DT sold out. I just said that they have to make some compromises to stay in business. They said that themselves, and it's unavoidable if you think about it. If there wouldn't have been the big name (big name = sales) of Kevin Shirley, DT (and we!) would still wait for the ok from the label. And why do you think they asked Child to work on this song? The label needs sales, the band needs the label. 'Nuff said.
To sell doesn't mean to sell out. If "You Not Me" crashes the charts I'd be happy. It's still a quite heavy song, and it's still Dream Theater.
I guess I have to clarify my point of view a bit: I think DT made a great job when they re-worked the probably cheesy Desmond Child-version to the final song. Hey, I never said it was *bad*. I said I think it's a pity they scrapped the old version. I can live with "You Not Me". It's catchy and stuff, I just think the demo version was more coherent. If I overdid it in my first post it was just because I was shocked after I heard the new chorus...!
Well, the production of this song. Of course the MPEG-compression could have changed it a bit, but you can still tell that the bass sounds great. Hearing the bass at all is reason enough to say that the sound is great... ;-) The snare is indeed very loud in the mix, but that's ok for me. I bet this was the song (or one of the songs) where Mike used the old tiny Majesty-kit, I can't remember hearing any tom drums at all ;-) But the keyboards are there!
Can't wait for the studio version of New Millenium - I want to hear how JM's stick sounds! I mean, the Chapman stick...
Steffen
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steffen Barabasch - THE MIRROR TheMirror@westend.com Deutscher Dream Theater Fanclub http://www.westend.com/TheMirror -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2826 **************************
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