YTSEJAM Digest 2850
Today's Topics:
1) Beside A Horrible Roit(BahrContent)
by caber1@concentric.net
2) Re: Bahr
by eckie@asu.edu
3) Bahr Bells
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
4) Bahr
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
5) MIKE BAHR!!!
by Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com>
6) NETCOM
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
7) Re: Mike Bahr's important CD-related stuff
by Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk>
8) proof
by jsj@ix.netcom.com (J. E. James)
9) Mike Bahr
by Eric John Marlett <gt7262a@prism.gatech.edu>
10) Re: In Defense of Mike Bahr
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
11) Re: Beside A Horrible Roit(BahrContent)
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
12) Dammit!
by Eric John Marlett <gt7262a@prism.gatech.edu>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2848
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:56:28 -0700
From: caber1@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Beside A Horrible Roit(BahrContent)
Message-ID: <33F0EA1C.2ED6@concentric.net>
Hi everyone,
SPOILER NDTC###SPOILER NDTC
Okay, if you're new to the list you probably haven't heard of Mike Bahr.
He produces bootlegs on CD. He charges about $25(and now $20, I think).
Some of his CD's are better than others. But, they're pretty good for
bootlegs. He doesn't run off with your money. He only asks you to be
patient, while he gets your CD produced & shipped.
If you don't like him posting to the jam, tough luck. People talk about
stuff here that I don't like. People on here talk about a lot of stuff.
Period. Usually we won't accept spam of any form, but, Mike has been
part of the jam for longer than most of us. He doesn't say YNM sucks, he
doesn't bash people for thinking FII is going to be good, and he has
never implied that the Spice Girls were bad. He's okay in my book!
If you think that he should just trade stuff, and not ask money for what
he does, think about this. You have all of DT's offical releases. You
want some bootlegs, but, since you don't have any you can't get any. So,
what do you do? Pay some rip-off CD dealer on the internet? But, he
might steal your money, or worse get your order messed up and give you a
2 disc bootleg of MM. Hmm, you could do a dub trade, right? But you'd
have to wait about the year of it's return. So, what's the only other
reasonable option? You go into the bathroom and cry!
If you think he charges waaaay too much for a CD. Here is something to
think about. Other than the actual CD stuff what else is there? Well,
there's the planning(what he doesn't just throw any old "John Bon Jovi"
song on there?), the throw aways(huh, it doesn't come out picture
perfect everytime?), oh there's the electric bill(what you mean he
doesn't still live with his parents like me?), and other stuff that I'm
not thinking about now like shipping/handling, liners, gas for driving
to a couple of different post offices...Stuff like that.
Hmm, what else is there to say about Mike? He is the only bootlegger
that DT approves of. It's not only 1/5 of the band, too. From what I
understand MP doesn't represent what DT says as a band. The band as a
whole looks the other way with Mike's stuff. That means JP and the rest
of those sell-out bastards, too.
John McCabe
caber1@concentric.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:02:41 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Bahr
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970811135243.2390C-100000@general5.asu.edu>
I'm not too clear on the costs of all the equipment, like the CD writer
and the blank disks, but I don't have a problem with it. I think
Precious Things was WELL worth the $25 I paid for it, as well as When
Today and Dream Unite. They're both great bootlegs! And since Mike is
the one with the connections to get these quality recordings, he is the
one producing these CD's, the person putting the time to make/keep
records/ship out the CD's to all his customers, he can put whatever damn
price he wants on those discs! Would you sit at a computer most of the day,
testing hundreds of CD's for flaws for no profit? I sure as hell wouldn't.
If ya don't like the price of the bootlegs, then make your own bootlegs.
I sure wouldn't wanna be in Mike's shoes though, first his equipment
breaks down, now he's getting shit about his business on the jam...ick.
But then again, that's just MY take on the whole shibang,
~Eckie puts PT in the spinner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:08:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Bahr Bells
Message-ID: <199708112108.QAA02284@enteract.com>
> Just a request for anyone to upcoming Fates shows if anyone talks to Zonder
Seeing them for the first time TOMORROW! I'll ask him for ya!
> From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
> Subject: Bahr
> Brian Wherry said:
>
> > Okay, so not only does Mike Bahr take music that is not his own, put in
> > on CDs and sell them to ytsejammers for about ten times what they cost
> > to make, he makes and sells *copies* of products made by other companies
> > whose products consist CDs of music that is not *their* own. Am I
> > missing something?
>
> Oh goody! Somebody finally has the balls to stand up and say something
> against Mr. Bahr even though is a long-time veteran of this list. Thanks
Well, there have been times during which I've felt that he's been very misleading. I
hope Mike understands the frustration and thinks about it before he responds.
> Brian. Now that I'm out of the closet as well I totally agree with you :).
> I wouldn't mind if Bahr was making these cds and trading them, or even
> making them and selling them at no profit. That would be the cost of the
> CDR at maximum $7 or $8, but I don't see where the fuck he gets up to $25
> and has the nerve to tell us he's barely making a profit. I guess he's not
> a very good business man.
Okay... there are a few issues to take into account. Some of Bahr's source is NOT
cheap. Some of it is readily available on other boots, but some of it is just plain expensive
stuff. If you pay $300 for your source, $7 per disc, $2-3 for inserts and jewel boxes (which
don't cost $2, Vince :) and then pay for shipping, it can get a bit hairy. Still... he's
making enough to afford an apartment or a house on, and I know I don't make that much on my
music... I'm sure someone's going to resent that.
The Equinox post really pissed me off, but I have always really trusted Mike, and he's
always been a nice guy... I have never had a reason to get on his case.
> Even MORE appalling is the fact that he's copying OTHER bootlegs and making
> a huge profit!
I think the greatest thing about bootleg cds is fucking over whoever sold you your
copy, buy making and trading your own versions of the product. I personally think that
bootlegs should be a tradable comodity, but not a profitable one. I don't think anyone should
be able to make a living off my music, unless they're part of my organization or record
company, etc. I find that to be unethical.
Bootlegs, however are free promotion for a band. They do help people to get into your
music... but I don't think people should be paying more than cost for em. When someone
charges $25-50 for a bootleg video... that's just not cool. Portnoy himself digs bootlegs...
but I bet he feels the same. TRADE bootlegs... even seel them for what they cost you to make.
But once you start making a profit off them, in my opinion, you've crossed the line.
> Well, Mike Bahr is not the only one that does this. And a lot of
> people think that his work is worth the money. In this case they pay him
> the money for the service. Capitalism works very simply.
There's no question that most of his boots are worth the money... Awake and Images and
Words are worth hundreds of dollars to me. But I don't have to pay hundreds for them... that
would be too exorbitant a fee.
> From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
> Cc: durnik@goodnet.com
> You just hit the key word. Ytsejammers. We're a family of sorts here.
My family doesn't sell me stuff. They give it to me, or in rare cases, we trade for
it. That's how family works. If you're selling for a profit, you're not so much looking out
for your family as you are for yourself. I don't think Bahr's making enough of a profit off
his business to really call it harmful or even wrong... but all businesses start out slow.
The more cds you make, the less they end up costing your a piece. Bahr is dropping his prices
as his overhead decreases, so hopefully he won't turn into a KTS type thing.
> He's a bootlegger. What's the problem? If you don't like bootlegs,
> especially ones that the actual musicians say is okay, don't buy them.
I specifically asked this of Portnoy on the interview. I think someone beat me to it,
because it came out in different words. Anyways, he said that he like bootlegs of all sorts,
but the rest of the band does not approve of them, if I remember correctly. So it's not "the
musicians" saying it's okay.
> profit off of each CD. If you can do it better for less, then do it. If
> not, go fuck yourself and get off Mike's back. He's doing us all a great
That's a good argument. I think you really persuaded Adam and Brian to go jerk off in
the corner, listening to Scenes from a Memory.
> >If somebody could explain the morals to me here or if any of my math is
> >incorrect I'd be glad to re-think my conclusion....
What needs to happen, is someone has to come by and reproduce all of Bahrs better
material on cds for less money. He's got almost a monopoly here. No one else markets
bootlegs to this list. If someone would compete with him or even reproduce the exact same
material, things would balance out as they should.
Chris Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C -- (773) 248 8511
http://www.enteract.com (business)
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman/ (my contribution to
--------------------------------- the vast wealth of
"To err is human... to suck out | underdeveloped
one's brain with an orally | web sites)
deployed flesh tube is not."-MS| ****************
---------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:15:02 -0400
From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Bahr
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970811171502.006a0434@mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca>
>Even MORE appalling is the fact that he's copying OTHER bootlegs and making
>a huge profit! CDR discs can be bought for around $5 these days and he's
>selling these copies for $20. Let's see...he has to open his cd case and
>put it in the drive, put in the CDR disc , wait a few minutes, put the disc
And didn't he recently say he was now doing this for a living? (Somtehing
to the effect of "I don't have any intention of getting a real job"...)
Anyway, $5 is expensive for a CDR disc these days - I can get them for
$4.50 Canadian, individually. And if I were to buy over 1000 of them bulk,
I'm sure I could get them for under $3.00 apiece.
If you set aside $2 (generuos) from each CD for the cost of the burner and
misc hardware, it would pay for itself after half a print run. An the
leftovers as well as what's made from future print runs could go towards
misc expenses such as lost CD's and whatnot. Factor in another $4-5 per CD
for shipping, packaging, etc. and he's still gota be making at least $15
profit per CD. If he's not making at least that, then he's doing a poor
job at running his operation.
3000 CD's a year, and that's $45k profit... I dunno... that's one of the
reasons I don't buy his CDs anymore - not only can I not afford the $35-40
CDN the cost amounts to, but I certainly can't afford to line the pockets
of someone who just sits around all day changing CDs. Granted, I'd buy
Mike's CD's in a heartbeat before I'd even think of buying bootlegs by
anyone else, but it still doesn't seem right that he's making such a big
profit off something a 10 year old could do.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:29:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: MIKE BAHR!!!
Message-ID: <199708112129.AA17374@metronet.com>
well i am a veteran of this list for over 4 years now..some of you
may remember me from the tape tree of the birch hill 12/95 show.
i dont post anymore, and rarely read the digests, but i skimmed over
one today complaining about mike bahr and i read it. i went to go check
out his cd page and saw the "ad" for the darkest of winters cd.
this cd contains material that i personally taped. mike bahr sent blank
DATs to me and i copied the shows for him *at no cost to him*, because
he wanted the 4 shows.
now that he is putting them out on cd and profiting off my tapes i am
quite pissed. i have never said anything publicly about him in the past,
but now i feel i must. from the beginning he has been charging inflated
prices for illegal cd's (they are illegal mike, why do you think 800,000
cds were confiscated last month in orlando?)
mike even told me when i stayed with him back in '95 that he bought a new
truck off all the money he made from the cd's.
i just wanted to let everyone know that i had nothing to do with this cd
being put out, and i didnt even know about it until today. since the
band is aware that i taped these shows (i sent DATs to portnoy) i feel
that i must protect myself by informing dt's management about this
project and letting them know that i had no part in it.
for the new tour i am going to do everythign possible to get high quality
copies of shows to everyone for free. dont support mike's illegal
activities. 90% of the material on the darkest of winters cd is from
my DATs. i will let anyone copy the entire shows onto CD-R for free.
mike, this is pretty low. the least you could have done is told me
about this..
.disgusted.
<><><><><><><><><> Brian V. Cox (lerxst@metronet.com) <><><><><><><><><>
<>rush\dreamtheater\kingcrimson\phish\moe.\toriamos\echolyn\queensryche>
"The man or woman who is insensitive to the spell of this performance
really isn't fit to live in civilized society for it is one of
the wonders of the world" -Frank Granville Barker
<><><><><><><><><>DAT Taper/Trader - Email me for list<><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><><><> http://www.metronet.com/~lerxst <><><><><><><><><><>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:29:32 -0400
From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: NETCOM
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970811172931.006e9084@mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca>
> Well, I've just sent an e-mail to Netcom. Let's see if they are
>more interested in the money or in having users of high intelectual level
>(it is a pitty that money doesn't show anything about the person that is
I too sent an e-mail to Netcom when I first saw his message. But now I
feel like a complete idiot (I don't get the Jam in ACK mode, so I don't get
full headers, and didn't stop to think about the fact the addrses may have
been forged).
This Dr.D guy is NOT Justin. He's impostering him <sigh>... I guess it's
the same wee.wee loser. (Did you notice he said "please don't shut down
the netcom account"?) I don't mean to continue this on the Jam, since it's
really something that should be dealt with in private with Skadz and this
guy's postmaster, but DO NOT COMPLAIN TO NETCOM!
Mark Bredius wrote:
> I'm sure some people will be interested in this. Someone on the
> Marillion mailinglist started a fund, to help pay for a US tour.
> Every donor of $25 and over will get a *free* limited edition CD
> recorded during the US tour. Only 1000 copies will be made, and
> there are still some left (about 100-200, I think). Marillion's
> record company recently went chapter 11, and *now* the Tour Fund
3 perfectly justified messages in a row? Someone needs to get a fucking
life. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:18:49 +0100
From: Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Mike Bahr's important CD-related stuff
Message-ID: <R$bchAA5G47zEwtY@tequila.demon.co.uk>
In article <33EF2F65.275B@mathworks.com>, Brian Wherry
<bwherry@mathworks.com> writes
>
>Mike Bahr wrote:
>>
>> This price cut makes Prism Records order prices standard across
>> the board, whether it's for one of my custom releases or one of the
>> Italian boot replicas.
>
>Okay, so not only does Mike Bahr take music that is not his own, put in
>on CDs and sell them to ytsejammers for about ten times what they cost
>to make, he makes and sells *copies* of products made by other companies
>whose products consist CDs of music that is not *their* own. Am I
>missing something?
<lots of shite snipped>
You haven't been here very long have you? If it Mike hadn't taken
the time (no pun intended) to make the various cd's i would never
have heard many of the rare tracks and one offs.
Unlike you, i and many others have no interest in swaping tapes so
Mike's cd's provide a service to the non-trader by putting everything
on one(or two) cd's.
I have never met Mike , but from all of his posts i can honestly say
he comes across as very honest and sincere (and i have no reason to
think otherwise).
I have no problem buying a cd from Mike or the reason he makes
them because i know he does it as a hobby and not as a full time
job.
You have your opinion and i have mine.
p.s Mike , how about a photo for the gallery?
Gary Cleghorn
Ytsejam Photo Gallery at http://www.tequila.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:36:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: jsj@ix.netcom.com (J. E. James)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: proof
Message-ID: <199708112136.QAA27352@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
Dear Jammers,
I can prove that I am not Dr. D. Look at the email address at the top of all
my messages, at the header or whatever its called, they say:
]From: jsj@ix.netcom.com (J. E. James)
but if you look at the ones where Dr D is impersonating me, they say:
]From: jsj@ix.netcom.com (Justin James)
see the difference? this is because although I am the one that uses the internet
at my house, my dad pays for it, so his name is there, not mine. Now can
somebody tell me how it is possible to catch this Dr. D guy and prosecute him, if
what he is doing is indeed illegal?
Lord Mutilo
jsj@ix.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric John Marlett <gt7262a@prism.gatech.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mike Bahr
Message-ID: <199708112143.RAA11194@acmey.gatech.edu>
> 12) Mike Bahr's important CD-related stuff
> by Brian Wherry <bwherry@mathworks.com>
[huge rambling about a personal dislike of Mike's post deleted]
You know, there are hundreds of people on this list who think Mike's
projects are excellent collectible items and invest in them accordingly,
but even if you don't feel that way, does it really bother you that much
that he updates this list? You don't have to read everything....I don't.
Just take what you want from the list and let others do the same.
Mike, thanks for the update.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:45:24 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: vgl@syspac.com (Vincent G. LuPone)
Cc: ytsejam@ax.com, durnik@goodnet.com
Subject: Re: In Defense of Mike Bahr
Message-ID: <199708112145.OAA04452@goodnet.com>
Wow, another reply...
> is Vince LuPone
>> is Brian Wherry
> >> Okay, so not only does Mike Bahr take music that is not his own, put in
> >> on CDs and sell them to ytsejammers
>
> You just hit the key word. Ytsejammers. We're a family of sorts here.
> Bahr has a link to the band (that even GIVES him material!!), approval from
> the members of the band, and his boots are all rare stuff and high quality.
> He's giving some of us on the outer circle some of the stuff only
> available on the inner circle. It's cool.
Shhhh! Quiet!! :) Can't let them know we know they know that we
know. You know? :)
> My guess is that he's buying excellent CDs for the CDR. There are some
> really cheap CDs out there, ones with only one thin gold layer, but Bahr's
> CDs are double-layered so that they're stronger and they last longer. Plus
Well, plus the cost of the equipment to make the CDs with. Plus,
it takes an entire day's work to create the master on the hard drive, plus
the cost of obtaining music (I paid $700 for the digital masters for
Critical Mass, and I'm paying $400 for E2E) and so forth. And yes, you're
quite right Vince, I eschew the generic CDRs becuase they fail too often.
> service, and I thank him for that. Besides, most bootleg CDs out there are
> $20-$40 anyway, so what's your problem?
Oh yeah, thats a salient point I forgot to mention. I'm at or
lower than the market standard, so I guess all is well.
> >Even MORE appalling is the fact that he's copying OTHER bootlegs and making
> >a huge profit!
>
> Compiliations rule. Sometimes there are parts of bootlegs that are
> superior to others. I see no fault in compiling the best of several
> bootlegs into one great CD. I think it's great.
Well, I think he meant my CD replicas of foreign boots. I am
starting those becuase the originals are getting hard to find, and lots of
people ask me if I offer them. So I figured I would.
> CDR discs can be bought for around $5 these days and he's
> >selling these copies for $20. Let's see...he has to open his cd case and
> >put it in the drive, put in the CDR disc , wait a few minutes, put the disc
> >in the mailbox....instant $10-$15 profit.
And that drive costed how much? And the computer it's attached to
costed how much? And it's costing me how much to stay home and do this all
day, compared to working out of the house? Etc.
> On a related note...Mike, my check for $45 for the Megadeth CD and the two
> Savatage (YEAH!) videos will be in the mail VERY soon.
Cool!! Thanks man.
- Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:49:57 -0400
From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Beside A Horrible Roit(BahrContent)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970811174957.00f93790@pophost.fore.com>
John McCabe wrote:
>
>If you think that he should just trade stuff, and not ask money for what
>he does, think about this. You have all of DT's offical releases. You
>want some bootlegs, but, since you don't have any you can't get any. So,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>what do you do? Pay some rip-off CD dealer on the internet? But, he
>might steal your money, or worse get your order messed up and give you a
>2 disc bootleg of MM. Hmm, you could do a dub trade, right? But you'd
>have to wait about the year of it's return. So, what's the only other
>reasonable option? You go into the bathroom and cry!
I'm certainly not against bootlegging, or collecting bootlegs, but this is
one of the worst arguments I've heard, short of "I don't see you putting
out a better album." Most of us veterans started our DT bootleg
collections by trading for blanks, not paying some rip-off dealer or crying
in the bathroom. Also, I never paid more than $20 for a single disc boot
from a dealer (doubles were always $40), so the fact that Mike's prices
have come down from $25 to $20, still only puts his discs at the same price
as most Imported bootlegs. So your arguments here aren't really relevant.
And again, I'm not trying to come down on what Mike's doing (if it really
bothered me, I would have spoken up 3 years ago when he first proposed the
idea), but I'm having a blast disputing these unsound arguments.
KAI (still trying to figure out how I can get rich quick by bootlegging
Bahr's bootlegs)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 17:51:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric John Marlett <gt7262a@prism.gatech.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Dammit!
Message-ID: <199708112151.RAA12754@acmey.gatech.edu>
Ok, this is just pissing me off. As an always satisfied Mike Bahr
customer, I have to come to the guy's defense. First of all, how can his
projects hurt the band? The people who buy his CD's are the same people
who have every official release and who go to DT concerts whenever they
can. These are the die-hard fans, so it's not like they're spending money
that would otherwise go to DT. They've already done that.
And my main point....
> making them and selling them at no profit. That would be the cost of the
> CDR at maximum $7 or $8, but I don't see where the fuck he gets up to
> $25 and has the nerve to tell us he's barely making a profit. I guess
> he's not a very good business man.
> Even MORE appalling is the fact that he's copying OTHER bootlegs and
> making a huge profit! CDR discs can be bought for around $5 these days
> and he's selling these copies for $20. Let's see...he has to open his cd
> case and put it in the drive, put in the CDR disc , wait a few minutes,
> put the disc in the mailbox....instant $10-$15 profit.
I don't where you're getting your info, but every CD Bahr produces is not
CDR. He creates commercial grade CD's identical to the ones you buy in a
store. He sends them away to a CD printing plant, and he gets artwork
pressed onto the CD, then there's the liner notes. All that ain't
cheap.....Don't criticize things you know little about.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:57:22 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2848
Message-ID: <199708112157.OAA06032@goodnet.com>
> Brian Wherry said:
>
> > Okay, so not only does Mike Bahr take music that is not his own, put in
> > on CDs and sell them to ytsejammers for about ten times what they cost
> > to make, he makes and sells *copies* of products made by other companies
> > whose products consist CDs of music that is not *their* own. Am I
> > missing something?
>
> Oh goody! Somebody finally has the balls to stand up and say something
> against Mr. Bahr even though is a long-time veteran of this list. Thanks
Why would it take "balls" to say something against me? Am I some
kind of internet bully? Like I'm gonna give you a swirly or a wedgie when
I find out you posted out against me? :) Actually, that's kinda funny.
> Brian. Now that I'm out of the closet as well I totally agree with you :).
> I wouldn't mind if Bahr was making these cds and trading them, or even
> making them and selling them at no profit. That would be the cost of the
> CDR at maximum $7 or $8, but I don't see where the fuck he gets up to $25
> and has the nerve to tell us he's barely making a profit. I guess he's not
> a very good business man.
Well, I don't just paint the music onto the blank media. It takes
powerful computer systems to reliably produce these products. I would go
more into detail here, but the version of this post that did go into
detail got rejected by the Jam due to length! :) Plus you're forgetting
the liners, jewels, packing, shipping, electricity (trust me, you know
you're using your electronic stuff too much when you get an electric bill
of $170 a month for an apartment... and you don't run the A/C much). I
make personally about the same as I would working a part time job. I also
work part time with Equinox. Put the two together, and the rent is paid.
Presto! :) (Hey, you got your chocolate in my peanut butter! Hey, you got
your peanut butter in my chocolate! Hey, say, this is pretty good)
> Even MORE appalling is the fact that he's copying OTHER bootlegs and making
> a huge profit! CDR discs can be bought for around $5 these days and he's
Well, people asked for them, so I provide them. Etc. And oh yes,
you might want to know that CDR discs often _fail_.
> If somebody could explain the morals to me here or if any of my math is
> incorrect I'd be glad to re-think my conclusion....
If you have moral problems with bootlegging, talk to a priest. I
don't, and I made that decision long ago, so I literally would not be able
to grasp your angst in this situation.
Rogerio Brito writes...
> Well, Mike Bahr is not the only one that does this. And a lot of
> people think that his work is worth the money. In this case they pay him
> the money for the service. Capitalism works very simply.
Thanks for the backup, Rogerio. And he's right. If nobody wanted
what I was selling, it wouldn't sell.
- Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2850
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 17:59:45 EST