YTSEJAM Digest 2853
Today's Topics:
1) the Bahr-tender
by Fern Fryer! <fernandm@U.Arizona.EDU>
2) Re: ICQ Ytsejammers / Fates / Flames
by mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2845
by GnRBrks@aol.com
4) This Bahr thing
by Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2852
by Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2848
by "Dave & Becca" <davebec@flash.net>
7) Re: Bahr
by eckie@asu.edu
8) I'm here... sort of...
by Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
9) Re: Save me a seat on the bandwagon...
by eckie@asu.edu
10) Divine Regale and Ivanhoe
by "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
11) One more thing... Deep Purple..
by mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2851
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
13) Progressive Tape Swap
by "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:25:00 -0700 (MST)
From: Fern Fryer! <fernandm@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: ytsejam list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: the Bahr-tender
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.970811180943.124378C-100000@aruba.u.arizona.edu>
I have no problems with Mike. The couple of times that I've met him, he's
always been real cool to me and my friends.
$20 is not an outrageous price to pay for a CD that I KNOW will be cool,
great-sounding, and containing stuff that no one except a handful of
people would be able to hear. I have boots that sound like total
shit...all blurry and fuzzy and crowd conversations. The only time that
Mike had released tracks of crappy quality were the "extras" on AD that
weren't included in the track listings because he didn't want to make you
feel as though you were paying to hear those songs.
You guys have to remember that he has to find decent sounding tracks to
put on his CD's, which takes up lots of time (time=$) and postage,
determine an order that would provide the best continuity (except for
WDATU), get a master done (which probably takes several attempts for an
awesome one), etc. etc. etc. That's too much work for me...
If anyone else made CD's like (or above standard) Mike's, I'm sure most of
us jammers would buy them. And it would be nice if it costs $20.
Fernando Ma
Materials science & engineering
University of Arizona
http://bigdog.engr.arizona.edu/~ma
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 12:27:46 PST8
From: mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: ICQ Ytsejammers / Fates / Flames
Message-ID: <9707118713.AA871330528@CCGATE.HAC.COM>
>Does anyone have the ICQ program???
ICQ is really cool... all Windows users should go grab it
(www.mirabilis.com)...Ring me up for a chat sometime, the UIN# is in my SIG...
Thanks to everyone for all the great Fates Warning concert reviews, keep them
coming! Can everyone also cc; them to my home account (mkizer@goodnet.com), so I
can be sure to put them up on the web page. Thanks!
And lastly... I just got done reading through the little torrent of flames on
the Jam and I have to say to all those involved.... Thank you! You really
rekindled some fond memories of junior high school. I can remember it like it
was yesterday, when someone in class learned a new "dirty" word and just had to
share it with us all. Ah, the memories.... Hey, what's that beeping? Oh, sorry,
it's just that damn sarcasm detector going off again! ;^)
.---------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| ~Michael Kizer -----<***>----- Tucson, Arizona | mrkizer@ccgate.hac.com |
| URL: http://www.goodnet.com/~mkizer | mkizer@goodnet.com |
| /\/\_ Fates Warning - Island in the Stream _/\/\ | fugazi@weirdness.com |
| \/\/ Dream Theater - "Unofficial" Song Book \/\/ +------------------------|
| * Sola sapientia est qui me in merda posuit * | ICQ UIN# 2070538 |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: GnRBrks@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2845
Message-ID: <970811213249_-2107701403@emout07.mail.aol.com>
Can we PLEASE get this crap off the Jam!! I'm tired of seeing all this
crap!!!!!
Skads you know what I am talking about. This "dr d" <dr1982@hotmail.com>
needs to go away. I don't even want to include any of his last post.
Please do something about this ASAP!!
Glen <GnRBrks@aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 18:48:24 PST
From: Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: This Bahr thing
Message-ID: <199708120153.SAA06437@ktk1.SMARTT.COM>
** Reply to note from ytsejam@ax.com 08/11/97 5:15pm -0700
This whole bootleg thing. I've talked to bahr once or twice
and he's a nice guy, from what I've heard he's also extremely
reliable. Frankly, I'd rather trust him than some online cd
companies. If he's dicking over fans, well, shame on him and
he'll get his just deserts just like anyone else would but for
now, he's not. The band knows and for the most part, they are
ok with it.
This is my feelings on boots. Bootlegs is a word that a record
company came up with because it would mean that they would
lose potential profits and artists for the most part don't
like them because that means that's less the cash they get
paid. If the record company paid artists more and perhaps even
treated the artists better when it comes to this, (like DT's
label etc...) then maybe this discussion wouldn't exist. If
the band approves of it, I really see no problems with what he
does.
All flames welcome.
Mark Smeets/Stranger0/HTML Guild Member
---------------------------------------
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/ - personal page
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/Front.htm - Megadeth F.A.Q.
A Bridge is not a high place
The fifty-second floor
Icarus would nkow
A Mountain isn't too far to fall
When you've Fallin' from the Moon - Marillion, Brave - Fallin' from the Moon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:03:25 PST
From: Mark Smeets <msmeets@ibm.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2852
Message-ID: <199708120208.TAA07538@ktk1.SMARTT.COM>
** Reply to note from ytsejam@ax.com 08/11/97 6:40pm -0700
Melissa,
-Some of you say that $25(now $20) is too much to pay
ok..1>I thought you were his sister not his wife (don't laugh)
2>I totally side with you on this. Up here in vancouver,
how much are normal cd's? and I mean, DT cd's, or Fates or
some other good band. They run me AT LEAST 20$. The new Strato
cd Visions costs 50$ PLUS TAX. So, for those of you who are
bitching about prices and how things cost to much, get real.
Prices of cd's should be MUCH lower but still, at least its
not highway robery (you should see what they charge for
singles, now THAT is highway robery)
Before everyone whines that something costs too much, maybe
just think about how much it costs elsewhere. You guys are not
that bad off, quit bitching. Flames Welcome.
Mark Smeets/Stranger0/HTML Guild Member
---------------------------------------
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/ - personal page
http://www.smartt.com/~jsmeets/stranger/Front.htm - Megadeth F.A.Q.
A Bridge is not a high place
The fifty-second floor
Icarus would nkow
A Mountain isn't too far to fall
When you've Fallin' from the Moon - Marillion, Brave - Fallin' from the Moon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:24:20 -0500
From: "Dave & Becca" <davebec@flash.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2848
Message-ID: <199708120223.VAA14381@centurion.flash.net>
This is just another post in defense of Mike Bahr. I don't care if he is
making $24.99 in profit (which he is obviously not). This is simple
economics. There is demand for the cd's. He is going to supply them. If
not him someone else will. And then they might not even be of the quality
that we get from Mike. People want these cd's. Why bitch about him
charging what he charges? If you don't like it, either go somewhere else
to buy them, or start doing it yourself and charge a lower price. It is
that simple. I like his cd's and I will continue to buy them. Regardless
if they are $25 or $20. I am sorry that you think that he should give them
away, but if it were me, I would charge a lot more. There is something
called opportunity cost. He could be spending his time, money, and energy
on something else. He is giving that up to produce these cd's and to put
up with some whiney babies that are mad about God knows what.
I hope I haven't pissed too many people off, but I see someone providing a
valuable product to me and others, and I can't let it go by.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:26:05 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Bahr
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970811190832.11256B-100000@general1.asu.edu>
> Oh goody! The entire Jam hates me! I love this place.
Ohhhh yeah, you must've mistaken this list for the Ytsejam. This is the
Fuckujam, and you can't post unless you're using 20 (minimum) cuss words
from another subscriber's account....
>;D
> making a profit off boots in the first place. Trading = good. Selling =
> bad.
..isn't that what the white dudes said to the Indians right before they
skinned 'em all?
> What is he, a drug dealer?? When it comes down to it what he does is
> illegal and not cool. Brian Cox said himself he had DATs of stuff Bahr is
> going to make a profit of. Look around and trade. It's worth it.
..And....
> Uhm, yeah. So what's your excuse for how illegal it is? You take an already
> illegal bootleg and copy it and make a huge profit on each disc. That's no
<snip snip snip, bzzzzzzzzzz, chop chop, crack, KABOOM!!!>
So _YOU'RE_ the one person on the freeway who doesn't exceed the speed
limit even by a fraction of a mile! I understand the laws of this
nation and I abide by (most of) them, I understand what makes a good
law, and I STILL don't find, personally, anything wrong with
the Bahr family side-business! I also share a belief, coupled with a
fear, that if people are so intent on pointing the finger on somebody
who's willing to produce a wanted commodity such as his bootlegs (Bahr is
definitely one of the most reliable and top-quality bootleggers I've
experienced to date), that Dream Theater fans EVERYWHERE will lose a
great asset. I don't want to have to lose thier business on the account
that somebody, another "Dream Theater fan," decided to tell every major
corporation and fed on the planet about these "illegal boots." Just what
does make a bootleg legal btw?
If I'm not mistaken, another hard rock/heavy metal band did start off
thier lucrative career with many many people trading and copying copies
of copies of a demo album titled "No Life Till Leather." Bootlegs can be
VERY good things for a band, namely, Dream Theater!
I'll support Mike and Melissa all the way, because I like what they're
doing. I'm not the only one who's satisfied with thier business either.
In closing, I would like to take the opportunity to say,
Welcome to capitalism.
~Eckie
P.S.-
That video of "The Silent Man" could've been better, I have to admit!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:26:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: erodger@fore.com
Subject: I'm here... sort of...
Message-ID: <199708120226.WAA23562@ruby.cs.brandeis.edu>
> From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
> Subject: Re: Dammit!
>
> And for the record, I want to back up Brian Cox. I've been here almost as
> long as him, and this guy was the NUMERO UNO for taping DT shows. Brian, I
> think your proposition for the free DAT shows is getting the jam back on
> track. Hope you stick around - I've been missing some of the vets around
> here. Where the hell's Burstin?
>
I'm still here, sort of... Graduated (w/ Masters, started on this
list as a freshman) in May, and started working... (TAed last 2 years
in school which took alot of time as a Sr. and grad student) and there
has been entirly too much noise on this list lately... seems to be
changing w/ the upcoming release of the new CD (as in the past w/
LatM, Awake, and ACoS), so I am trying to keep up (now, although my
school had an intentional power outage this weekend, and ended up
deleting about 15 'Jams from this weekend)...
As far as trading goes, I have barely listened to more than 10% of the
tapes that I own, so have very much slowed down, especially since I
just about exclusivly listen to CDs now (especially since I have my
own CD burner)...
Speaking of which, you realize, we are approaching the 5th anniversary
of Ytsejam in January (started in Jan of 1993)... kinda scary how
long I have been around here... How many people, if anyone else, are
still around from the old ytsejam@bnf.com (I think bnf.com was the
first) days? Lets see...
@bnf.com
@arastar.com
@ax.com
think I'm missing at least one other server in there, though...
-- +----------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | It's all about you not me | Dream Theater: Falling Into Infinity | | It's all about the things that you're expecting me to be +----------+ | There's not enough time to live +--------------+ In Stores| | With all that you're expecting me to give | Sept. 23, 1997| +-------------------------------------------+-------------------------+ Michael Burstin: mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 19:28:52 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Save me a seat on the bandwagon... Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970811192635.11256C-100000@general1.asu.edu>
Oy, I almost responded on the same side of the battlefield, 'till I read both Mike and Melissa's side of the story.
Jesus, ya try 'n make quality bootlegs for people, and this is the thanks ya get.
I think I'll stick to drawin' comic books. ~Eckie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:52:09 -0400 From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Divine Regale and Ivanhoe Message-ID: <199708120253.WAA15633@zork.tiac.net>
Yo maggots,
Welp here are reviews of two new prog-metal discs I bought. Both have DT influences and sound and both are very different. First up...........
Divine Regale - Ocean Mind
This is a six piece (DT lineup with an extra guitar player) from the New Hampshire area. They've been around for a while and actually got a good review from a local musicians mag for their Horizons demo. 5 songs from that demo made it onto this album. Skadz said something about them being a mix of Megadeth and DT and I totally disagree. I've never seem them live, so maybe their sound comes off heavier. I wouldn't be surprised if they sound better live because the production on this cd kind of sucks. Nothing is really up-front and in your face. Too much reverb and too thin of a sound. The thin, high vocals suffer especially from the production. I like the singer's voice, but when they try to get heavy he just doesn't sound very good. I think this is a band with a lot of potentional and they're still carving their sound. This album has a few good songs and a few duds, but I think the truly great song is the last one. They stretch out their prog-chops in a Learning To Live kind of style (one of the main riffs might even remind you of the main riff from the LTL instrumental section) and their sound is totally unique here from heavy to soft. Their soft stuff sounds more like Fates then DT. They have more then enough talent to go around and if they keep using their imagination to write songs like the last one (also the longest on the disc at around 8 minutes) then these guys could be frightingly good.
Ivanhoe - Symbols of Time To be honest I wasn't sure what to expect from this disc. They've been around since 1989 and have an album before this one, but I heard lots of accusations of them being weak DT clones. They have the classical prog-metal/DT quintet lineup, but the overall sound is much different. They have a very European metal style to them, lots of great hooks and melodies and the guitarist offers up a great crunch to go along with the atmospheric synths. I'd say their metal/prog ratio is about the same as Superior, lots of crunchy straightforward guitar and creative keyboarding with occasionally complex arrangements stretching standard metal format. Song by song all the tunes are pretty similar. 8 songs, most around 6 minutes with 1 ballad. There are no duds, but no super-standout tracks either. The ballad will probably be either interpreted as cheesy or beutiful due to the appearence of a female singer. The funny part is the male vocalist sings so high it's sometimes hard to tell them apart. I wouldn't say that this vocalist is a consistantly high singer, he actually has a nice low end and can add a good growl to the heavy parts. Once in a while he'll get a little too extreme for my tastes though and add some out of context high vocals. Lots of odd-time sigs and good twists and turns should impress even die-hard prog fans and there's enough crunch to go around. Unlike the DR disc I believe these guys do have their own style carved out, but similar to DR, a few adjustments and they could be one of my favorite bands.
All in all, I recommend these discs to any DT fans and unlike many of the great prog-metal bands (Angra, Symphony X, Eldritch) these can be bought at most good record stores for around $15 since they're released in the US.
If I don't get any flames for posting actually musical content to the jam then I'll post my reviews of Angra and Spock's Beard when my package arrives from Laser's Edge (hopefully tomorrow).
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 12:41:16 PST8 From: mrkizer@CCGATE.HAC.COM To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: One more thing... Deep Purple.. Message-ID: <9707118713.AA871330796@CCGATE.HAC.COM>
Hey, I was watching TV the other night and saw this new Burger King commercial with the ubiquitous Deep Purple anthem as the theme song... But come on now, "Smoke on the Whopper"? <G>.... Is Ritchie hard up for cash? ;-)
~Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:09:25 -0700 (MST) From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2851 Message-ID: <199708120309.UAA24182@goodnet.com>
Hi. I guess I'm back. :)
> Subjct: Matt Bahr
Argh! It's Mike! Mike!!! The same as our favourite drummer. :)
> Constructive criticism. It would be great if all received orders for > one CD would be filled before the shipping of the next CD began. I seem > to always be reading the reviews of the *next* CD before I receive my > previous one.
Criticism received and understood. I agree totally.. workin' on that now. Summer season is pretty slow for cash flow and that slows down the entire works... things will be better during the school year.
> Technicality. When people start to add up all of the costs, we should > try to be more accurate. I can get blank jewel cases in quantities of > one for $0.75 per item. When ordering in quantities of 500+, I'm sure > that the price is less than $0.75.
If anyone's curious, here's my costs as they stand now...
$4.00 - media. Remember that discs fail, otherwise this would be less than $3. $2.50 - packaging. Those slick liners cost money. $2.00 - shipping, including packet and so on. $1.50 - Sales tax on all raw materials, since I don't have a tax ID this is unfortunately necessary. $3.00 - estimated portion of total equipment costs. $various - cost for the music itself. Some stuff I got free. Other stuff I had to buy. I paid over $600 for the master to Critical Mass, and I'm paying $400 for the master to E2E. It depends. $1.00 - total for jewelcase plus assorted misc. such as pens, etc $1.00 - approx. electricity it takes to make a disc. Remember that the entire system is powered, plus it's temperature sensitive so I gotta keep the room at 75' when it's over 110' outside, plus light, plus monitor, etc. $2-4 - my take-home pay per disc. If I make 10 discs per day, I made about as much as the average burger flipper. I do try to make far more than that on most days. :)
Also, I usually get on the net like I am right now on Melissa's old beat-up 386sx laptop, while the main machine makes CDs. Before the price cut my take home pay per disc was approaching $7 (remember I was using CD labels too at that time), but I decided it was better to sell more discs at a lower price for the sake of consistency.
> what he's doing here to save a penny. Roughly, it costs Mike about $5 to > produce 1 CD (materials only). Add a generous $5 per CD for his time, and
See above.
> And for the record, I want to back up Brian Cox. I've been here almost as > long as him, and this guy was the NUMERO UNO for taping DT shows. Brian, I
It's true. Brian can tape a show better than anyone I've ever known. Practice makes perfect.
> > Hmm, what else is there to say about Mike? He is the only bootlegger > > that DT approves of. It's not only 1/5 of the band, too. From what I > > I don't name-drop because it's not fair to the band and to their
I changed my mind, I'll name-drop. I talk quite a bit with three members of the band (quite a bit meaning, when they have time and when I happen to be in the area) and around 4 people involved in their mgmt. And all of those people are on the ol' CD gravy-train. And I'll confirm that John Petrucci is NOT one of them. :)
Adam Cook writes... > > Oh yeah, thats a salient point I forgot to mention. I'm at or > > lower than the market standard, so I guess all is well. > > Oh how nice. You're making less of a profit then the rest of the > bootleggers out there. How nice of you..
Well, if people are already paying X for a product, and I offer it for Y, and Y < X, then how am I screwing them over? Forgive me for presuming, but you sound like the kind of guy who isn't happy with anything unless it's free. There are a lot of people like that, I just don't understand them.
> Uhm, yeah. So what's your excuse for how illegal it is? You take an already
I don't care if it's illegal or not. Why should I? If the law ever wants to put a person away, they will do it whether or not that person has ever done anything illegal. They will FIND A REASON to put them away. Knowing that, I choose to ignore copyright-law, one of the largest gray-area laws out there.
> better then copying commercial material. I've been having trouble finding > Awake in some stores...will you copy some of those on CDR for me? I never
No, I'll never copy Awake. that's Counterfeiting. Not bootlegging. There's not only a huge moral difference, but a huge consequential difference there. I also won't copy the Lie single or LATM, no matter how rare they are and how much people keep begging me. PLus, the band lets me know what to use and what to leave alone. They want to use the Uncovered stuff, so they said, "Hey Mike, don't release Tapestry." To which I replied, "OK, as you wish." Boy, am I ever an asshole, huh?
> But now that he's had time to streamline the operation, and figure out the > best/cheapest ways to do things, I would think he's reduced the cost by at > least $5-10 per CD. I think it's no secret why prices haven't come down.
The whole thing that started this thread is that prices _have_ come down. I dropped them to $20, and if things continue to go well through the end of the year, you may see them dropped to $15 in 1998 sometime (don't hold your breath though).
> new truck off the CD's way back in '95, I wouldn't be surprised if he's > making close to $20 profit on each CD now. I have no problem with someone > making that much money honestly, but the way he's just ripped you off, as
I wish.
> honestly and through creativity and hard work, not playing Nintendo games > and Magic cards (my brother played that, but he outgrew it when he was > 12... and yes, that was a shot) all day while CD's burn...
And what the hell is that supposed to mean? You know, there _is_ other work to be done while CDs are being made. Generally in the way of packaging and shipping. I work every day, 6 or 7 days a week, late into the night, no holidays, no parties, NOTHING. It takes an enormous amount of time, and quite a bit of patience, and a huge amount of risk. And I won't stand for someone taking the things that I liked to do in my time off and assuming that's all I do. If a guy likes to bowl, do we accuse him of loafing around all week at the bowling alley while his kids starve? Of course not. And I do that work because despite how frustrating it is, I love the finished product and the sense of accomplishment, and I love listening to what I work with. Oh, BTW, that shot at Magic was uncool. I win tournaments every week for between $50-200 as supplemental income to stay afloat. It's a game dominated by college-age people, not kids. And I'll be appearing on the Magic Pro Tour starting in October. So unless you want to knock Tiger Woods and Gary Kasparov for competing hard at the highest level of competition in their sport, don't knock me. I just hope I'll have enough money to travel to the event. And you may notice that I sold my video games recently, because gol-darnit, I don't have time to play anymore and needed the money.
- Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:42:55 -0500 From: "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Progressive Tape Swap Message-ID: <33EFE9CF.76E4@auburn.net>
Hello, everyone. No Mike Bahr, imposter, or DT content here, just a little bit of information about the tape swap we're trying to get organized before Charles Barkley becomes governor of Alabama ;)
There are currently 24 people signed up to participate. It's pretty simple, you make 3 compilation tapes for people, and you get 3 compilation tapes sent to you. For the cost of postage and 3 blank tapes you get 4 1/2 hours of music from other 'jammers' collections that you haven't heard before. The other tape swaps similar to this one were very succesful, and this one should be no different.
For details regarding the swap, follow the link below. If you are interested in joining, please do so. You still have a few more weeks before we begin, but it will make us feel better if people respond now rather than wait until the last minute.
Thanks for reading, and take care, Mark -- *********************************************************************** * Mark Peters -- swifty@auburn.net -- Auburn University, Class of '99 * * Ytsejammer, tape trader at http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/index.html * * Progressive tape swap - http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/tapeswap.html * * * * "Where ideas are concerned, America can be counted on to do one of * * two things: take a good idea and run it completely into the ground * * or take a bad idea and run it completely into the ground." * * - George Carlin * ***********************************************************************
PS - I've moved "You Not Me" to a different location on my page, look for it under the DT downloads section. And to think I thought $750 per quarter was expensive for college - I didn't consider the fact that the University gives me 20 megs of web space! That makes it all worthwhile!
PPS - The Alabama Lines In The Sod are gonna kick some ass with their ugly helmets, even if Mark Brunell isn't going to be the quarterback :)
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2853 **************************
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