YTSEJAM Digest 2854
Today's Topics:
1) Bahr, King Crimson at LOLLAPALOOZA?!?
by ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
2) Re: Ray Alder and Ytsejam shirt and the internet
by Polo Santos <ytse_jammer@mail.utexas.edu>
3) bonus tracks on new album
by Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu>
4) The 'Jam "Falling into Stupidity!!!"
by BRYNMAWR@webtv.net (D. J. FARRELL)
5) Mike's CD's
by yzzy <yzzy@theonramp.net>
6) Mark Smeets' excellent opinions of bootlegs and a thought that occurred to me
by "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
7) Annoying fans/Tempest bizzarrity
by Brian Henderson <Cyberburlap@icdc.com>
8) BahrJam
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2851
by Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2841
by "Blondie Smurf" <cyradis1@hotmail.com>
11) re:Mike B shit storm
by "Randy Shewey" <randyshewey@msn.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:31:40 -0400
From: ernie@pananet.com (Ernesto Schnack)
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Bahr, King Crimson at LOLLAPALOOZA?!?
Message-ID: <19970812034310.AAA3790@sni.pananet.com>
> Ernie said:
>
> > OR make a whole new ytsejam for the new 'fans'
>
> My vote goes to Ernie for moderator :) I have ENOUGH trouble trying
> to control you people :P
>
nonononono, just leave 'em to themselves. We don't have to worry about'em;)
This whole Bahr thing... ARGH! What is this? 2 or 3 years later, and NOW
all you people want to speak up?! And your whole argument is based on the
'profit' he makes... something which you'll never truly know unless a)try
it yourself or b)go visit him personally and look thru his bills.
Secondly, about the whole bootleg thing... in a Bahr-less world I'd have
one of these 2 options:
1) Trade with ppl, and get a tape dub of boot. Not a CD, a tape dub.
2) Order from some mail ordering thingy which I can't trust. And I don't
know what quality I'm getting in those boots.
]From Mike we're getting CD's that we know are going to be good quality,
with material that we all want, and we know it'll be mailed to our door.
If you have something against Bahr you should have complained about it a
long time ago. Just one guy posts a complaint, and suddenly everybody's
balls double in size. Sheesh!
****
On a more positive note: I just got this months Guitar mag (or last month's
for you northern people) and in an interview with Robert Fripp, he says
that King Crimson was offered to play at Lollapalooza. Yes, exactly.
LOLLAPALOOZA. And although they obviously declined , he wanted to do it
next year, since doing festivals comes out a lot cheaper for them than a
headlining tour.
It's stuff like this that's making me very optimistic about the future of
music; and why I seriously think that FII could be DT's 'big break'.
Ernie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:01:37 -0500
From: Polo Santos <ytse_jammer@mail.utexas.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Ray Alder and Ytsejam shirt and the internet
Message-ID: <33EFEE31.5A561CCE@mail.utexas.edu>
Mike Kizer wrote...
> hehe... funny thing was, last September after I first put up the Fates web
> page, Ray's wife emailed me a similar story...that she was going to try and get
> Ray to check out all of the various Fates web pages and stuff.... I guess he
> never did... ;-)
>
Funny that you mention it. I was hanging out at the back of the White
Rabbit(San Antonio) when Fates played there 2 weeks ago. My friends and
I were just getting into my truck to take off, when Ray comes out of the
bus to hang with some people. Well, just as we join the mob(10, 15 at
most), some bouncer guy comes out to tell everyone to leave the parking
lot, to which Ray replied, "Nah man, this is my family. That's my cousin
so-and-so, and that's my mom." At this point I'm thinking, "Cool, he's
sticking up for the fans."
As it turns out, the little mob WAS his family. So not wanting to be
complete dicks(we overheard his mother ask him why he hadn't been back
in 2 years), we tried to get some autographs while staying as out of the
way as possible.
The point of this story, is that we also overheard this same cousin
ask, "Hey Ray, when are you gonna get married?," which was met with some
general laughter and merriness. Not being too familiar with the Fates
biography, we took it he was single and left it at that. Joey Vera,
Zonder, and Matheos, to the best of my knowledge, never left the bus
that night...
Iolo
P.S. The show fucking rocked. I saw some guy there in an Awake shirt
who I thought might be a jammer, and since I was wearing my
Majesty-Instrumental t-shirt, and standing next to my bud in an Awake
shirt, I figured there'd be a look of recognition when we made
eye-contact at the front of the club. Oh well, sorry I didn't say hi :)
P.P.S. A thumbs down to my other bud who declined a chance to join the
Fates work crew for a night(the crew manager kept calling him Keith, and
kept inviting him onto the stage to move some amps, to which my buddy
replied, "Sorry, you got the wrong guy.", to which the other guy
replied, squinting, "Oh, you look like Keith. Nevermind."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:26:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brandon Elhai <belhai@drew.edu>
To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: bonus tracks on new album
Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.970812012426.549505204G-100000@drew.edu>
Just got this from a friend of mine... - Brandon
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Anyway just got a list from that Alta Mira place I get all my imports from:
Dream Theater New Album/ title TBA CDLP+2 JPN. Preorder Will feature 2 bonus
tracks with the initial pressing. $30.00
If you want the Japanese version, $30 is a good price I believe...let me
know if you wanna do it, or else you can email amcyber1@aol.com on your own.
Take care, hope your summer's going well... (of course it is! Fates!)
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 23:47:29 -0400
From: BRYNMAWR@webtv.net (D. J. FARRELL)
To: someone@enteract.com
Cc: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The 'Jam "Falling into Stupidity!!!"
Message-ID: <199708120347.UAA24861@mailtod-113.bryant.webtv.net>
Chris;
I agree with you 100%. 8 digests in one day wih a high spam
content is a little much. I just got back from vacation and I thought I
was missing out on something important.
Let's stick to the music people!!!
D. J. Farrell
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:51:26 -0500
From: yzzy <yzzy@theonramp.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mike's CD's
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970812005126.007b8100@mail.theonramp.net>
ref Melissa's "just a few things"
*yzzy cheers for Melissa* you rock! and Mike's lucky. *grin*
and for the person that started this controversial issue -- die!
i'm new to this list (but not new to DT) and it seemz that there's a few of
you that have nothing better to do in life then to bitch about something.
the negative forces that drives your keyboards would have a much greater
and more positive impact on this world if you would just pour a pitcher of
water over your keyboard and take up knitting.
but, hey! i've stuck my foot in it now. someone is surely gonna bitch
about the temperature of the water or what size of pitcher to use. and
some of these lamers will probably bitch about who's knitting what. i can
hear it now, "Your dog sweater sux, man."
yzzy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:24:53 -0500
From: "The Notorious B.I.G. S.W.I.F.T.Y." <swifty@auburn.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mark Smeets' excellent opinions of bootlegs and a thought that occurred to me
Message-ID: <33F001B5.73A@auburn.net>
> This is my feelings on boots. Bootlegs is a word that a record
> company came up with because it would mean that they would
> lose potential profits and artists for the most part don't
> like them because that means that's less the cash they get
> paid. If the record company paid artists more and perhaps even
> treated the artists better when it comes to this, (like DT's
> label etc...) then maybe this discussion wouldn't exist. If
> the band approves of it, I really see no problems with what he
> does.
Wow! I'd never thought about it that way, even though I agree completely
with it. Maybe if record companies didn't hire so many A&R people that
make more money than 99% of the musicians on their labels...but (I know
this has been said many times) we all know that the music business is
concerned with a different five-letter word that begins with "M".
Here's an interesting thought - I would be much happier if I had never
studied music or learned how to play an instrument. The local "music
scene" consists almost exclusively of people that sound as if they've
been playing for 6 months to a year. The people who flock to see these
bands, however, think that these bands consist mostly of accomplished
musicians. Whenever I have an intelligent discussion with someone about
this, the response that I inevitably hear is "I like their sound." Most
of the time I *don't* like it. Why not? Because their "sound" usually
consists of sloppy playing, overly repetitive compositions,
uninspired/clueless/inane attempts at improvisation, vocalists that have
no control over their voice, and/or lyrical content that could have been
penned by a 7th grader.
Why does this bother me? Because I could do better. Does this mean that
I have an inflated ego, or maybe a superiority complex? I don't know,
but I think that if I knew very little about the intricacies of music
(i.e. if I didn't know how to play an instrument) I would get much more
satisfaction from listening to the music that surrounds me every day. Oh
well. No one said that being a DT fan was easy :)
Those of you (both of you?) that read my posts to this list or have
corresponded with me via email know that I'm not the type of person to
sit back and complain - I try to see what I can do to make things
better. That said, I'm not complaining about the current state of music
as it relates to the average person, I'm just making an observation. I'm
not complaining, but I'm not trying to change anything, either. I
decided long ago that my love of music would be much better served if I
got an education so I could be a teacher of music instead of relegating
myself to poverty so I could be a purveyor of music.
Any thoughts?
I think I'll listen to some of my favorite music now. And if I ever
break down and get some music by this "Dar Williams" character, I'll
score many more 5's when I play the Adam Barnhart game :)
Take it easy, everyone,
Mark
-- *********************************************************************** * Mark Peters -- swifty@auburn.net -- Auburn University, Class of '99 * * Ytsejammer, tape trader at http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/index.html * * Progressive tape swap - http://www.auburn.net/~swifty/tapeswap.html * * * * "Where ideas are concerned, America can be counted on to do one of * * two things: take a good idea and run it completely into the ground * * or take a bad idea and run it completely into the ground." * * - George Carlin * ***********************************************************************------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 04:00:02 -0400 From: Brian Henderson <Cyberburlap@icdc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Annoying fans/Tempest bizzarrity Message-ID: <199708120800.EAA24318@darkstar.icdc.com>
Talk about a week loaded up the wazoo with concerts! Queensryche, Jethro Tull, and Fates all within the span of 6 days - it's a good thing I didn't have any big plans for my money... All three were excellent shows save for one thing. Annoying fans. Now, don't get me wrong -- the majority of the crowd is cool, I have no problems with them. It's the few asses that I always end up sitting next to/behind/etc. that get me riled. Queensryche, it was the guy next to me. Big as an ox, literally dripping with sweat, swinging his arms about like he was trying to put out a fire... and standing mere inches from me. Getting soaked with your own sweat was bad enough, but when it's someone else's, well, there's a *problem*. And every time I tried moving away from the guy he'd scoot his flailing titanous form over even more. Plus, he kept shouting the lyrics in death-metal-grunt. "I'M SMILING NEXT TO YOU!!!" Not the stereotypical 'Ryche fan, luckily. Then, at Tull, we had several types of annoying fan. The people that left after "Aqualung" (2nd song!) were more annoying than anything else. The people that left after "Aqualung", then came back, then left (during the middle of a song, of course), sat down again, got up, sat down, you get the picture (forcing me to continuously get up to let them by) were even more so. But then there was the couple directly in front of us. In an effort to recapture their youth, they would stand up act out the songs often times with oddly disturbing pelvic thrustings (I'll never be able to listen to "Locomotive Breath" again without getting a graphic memory picture -- yurch). Color me ageist, but there really is nothing more pathetic than a man in his late '40s air guitaring. Sorry! The Fates show (Troc), on the other hand, was dumb-fanless, at least in the zone in which I stood (front, left side -- I'm the tall sissy who wore earplugs). Saw one of you fellows there, almost hitcha as we were pulling out of the parking lot. So, whoever it was wearing a 'Jam shirt and walking with a guy in a 'Ryche shirt, you had a narrow escape from death. Or not. <chortle> "Death On Wheels"
On to my second point of business --
I bought a couplefew CDs at a used place the other day, one of them being Tempest "Surfing To Mecca" (same band, non-MC release), and found that it had something "special" -- the liner notes are signed by the band! So, hrmm, I'm wondering. Why, praytell, would someone who'd gone to the trouble of having their CD signed go and sell it for a few bucks at a used CD shop? Could it be that it's stolen? Would someone just decide after buying albums/going to concerts that they just don't like the band anymore? Don't make no sense.
Brian Henderson, Cyberburlap of the Savage Land Cyberburlap@icdc.com
"Then don't let me keep ya...and take this big slice o' ugliness with ya! <WHUMP>" -- Wolverine
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:22:12 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: BahrJam Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970812052212.00e7379c@pop.enteract.com>
>3000 CD's a year, and that's $45k profit...
Next thing ya know, yall will rat him to the IRS! I WISH I got paid that much! (But am still in school...)
>From: Brian Cox <lerxst@metronet.com> >Subject: MIKE BAHR!!!
>prices for illegal cd's (they are illegal mike, why do you think 800,000 >cds were confiscated last month in orlando?)
I'm not gonna get involved with this argument, outside of saying that's like the pot calling the kettle African American.
>i just wanted to let everyone know that i had nothing to do with this cd >being put out
Except that you are the only reason Mike got the shows in the first place. Consider not telling the authorities. Boots for trade are great. That's what the majority approve of. But it's still illegal in the US.
>From: Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: Mike Bahr's important CD-related stuff > >You haven't been here very long have you?
Yeah, Wherry's a newbie! (I still think it may have been the imposter posting as Wherry)
>From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
>> service, and I thank him for that. Besides, most bootleg CDs out there are >> $20-$40 anyway, so what's your problem? > > Oh yeah, thats a salient point I forgot to mention. I'm at or >lower than the market standard, so I guess all is well.
Neil Peart: Oh. That makes me feel better. Please continue selling my music and making more per unit than I do, and do let me know how the job's going every now and then. I appreciate the updates.
:)
> Well, I think he meant my CD replicas of foreign boots. I am >starting those becuase the originals are getting hard to find, and lots of >people ask me if I offer them. So I figured I would.
If Mike Bahr sells replicas of the other boots out there for less than the other boots cost you, then I'm gonna buy him a beer (in about 1.2 years). That's the kind of thing I like to see happening.
> And that drive costed how much? And the computer it's attached to >costed how much? And it's costing me how much to stay home and do this all >day, compared to working out of the house? Etc.
Whatever you paid on the drive, I could have gotten you a better deal. :)
> >I don't where you're getting your info, but every CD Bahr produces is not >CDR. He creates commercial grade CD's identical to the ones you buy in a >store. He sends them away to a CD printing plant, and he gets artwork >pressed onto the CD, then there's the liner notes. All that ain't >cheap.....Don't criticize things you know little about.
Then be silent and mute my little foolish one. The Precious Things label on my cd is peeling off in its case as we speak, and is feeling underpriviledged next to its predecessors. But Bahr will tell you, it's actually cheaper to make the real shit than it is to do the CDRs he's been doing. It's a matter of finding a joint that comes from Madagascar and doesn't know who Rush, DT, and KX are!
>From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
>> Oh goody! Somebody finally has the balls to stand up and say something >> against Mr. Bahr even though is a long-time veteran of this list. Thanks > > Why would it take "balls" to say something against me? Am I some >kind of internet bully? Like I'm gonna give you a swirly or a wedgie when >I find out you posted out against me? :) Actually, that's kinda funny.
What's funnier is, as you go along and read your reactions to the various flames and acid being poured, you begin to make threats akin to the swirly and the melvin. You always had a much more calm head on your shoulders than myself... good to see that you boil when things get to you too!
>> If somebody could explain the morals to me here or if any of my math is >> incorrect I'd be glad to re-think my conclusion.... > > If you have moral problems with bootlegging, talk to a priest. I >don't, and I made that decision long ago, so I literally would not be able >to grasp your angst in this situation.
So you don't mind making money off someone else's hard work? It's not just enough to cover your costs. It's enough to get by. You probably make more off the cds than I do at my job, which just shows my intelligence. Still, even if you pay for it, you're still stealing in the long run. I know it's not a big issue for some, but if you were asked by the band, nicely, without threats, to stop making your cds, would you? I struggle to believe that you would. You still sold your Tori boots, instead of sending the money back. Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG. They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground on which idea seeds fall." - Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:35:05 -0500 From: Chris Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2851 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970812053505.00e89ca8@pop.enteract.com>
>From: Mark Metzger <mmetzger@bostech.com> >Subject: Matt Bahr
Who?
>From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
>From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
> I want to have everyone note right now that if Brian makes a big >enough noise, there is the very real possibility that I will no longer be >here to provide these CDs. And I just want everyone to keep track of who >caused it, should it happen.
"They can take our money, but they can never take OUR BOOTLEGS!!!" Geez, Mel, let's rally the troops up against someone to support our arguments. Are you trying to make him shut up by trying to get the jammers to flame him to death? Why not just take a minute or two before you ost, and defeat his arguments instead of calling on your support squad to defend you?
>> my DATs. i will let anyone copy the entire shows onto CD-R for free. > > Go ahead. (chuckle). We'll see how long THIS lasts. All the >preparation, the hard drive space you'll need, the copying, the >failures... dude, you make me laugh LOUD with the above statement. If a >simple DAT tree frustrated you enough to quit, what the hell makes you >think you can do what I do now? I'll say this: Good luck, and go for it.
It can be done, and has been done before. It's not that hard to make a CDR full of music.
>And before anyone says it, yes, I am jealous... I've run my own business >since I was 14, doing stuff I enjoy, and I've made more money than most of >my friends who've slaved their butts off in part-time jobs, but I did it >honestly and through creativity and hard work, not playing Nintendo games >and Magic cards
Okay... this is now officially public domain. What do you do for a living, Lars? (If you say Hit Man, I'm calling the cops).
Chris W. Ptacek Musician and Listener A.K.A Madsman, on IRC
"Can we search for inspiration -- those ideas that just come from 'nowhere'? They don't surface when you're tHiNKinG. They just come. What we CAN do is make fertile the ground on which idea seeds fall." - Michael Hedges
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:39:11 PDT From: "Blondie Smurf" <cyradis1@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2841 Message-ID: <199708120739.AAA29318@f35.hotmail.com>
Wow I'm behind on my jams........
>1) What is your all-time favorite DT song? Album?
Images & Words is album. Don't ask me to pick a favorite song.
>2) Who is your favorite drummer? Guitarist? Bassist? Vocalist?
Tie between Portnoy and Zappa, either Petrucci or Clapton, > Geddy Lee, and probably Tori Amos.
>3) Who is the best group live?
They Might Be Giants. :::puts on the flame protectant suit:::
>Can anyone suggest any online stores that still sell awake t-shirts? Mine
>got a little small on me because of the washing machine and I'd like to
>get a new one. Thanks.
I got mine from http://www.rocktoys.com/. It ended up costing about $20.
>heheh... I can't wait till you all hear James LaBrie on the radio singing
>Take Away My Pain in the next month. The new radio edit version has a
>special duet with Celine Dion. Pretty nice. But you didn't hear that from
>me.....
Really? Celine Dion? I heard they'd wanted Madonna for that part.
Alison
|\_/|
|@ @|
+--------------vvvV--<o o>--Vvvv-----------------+
| V"V |
| Alison Clark | cyradis1@hotmail.com |
+------------------------------------------------+
| http://members.aol.com/bardtirla/lair.html |
+------------------------------------------------+
| "Death is the first dance eternal. Deceit is |
| the second without end. Love is the dance of |
| eternity..." --John Petrucci |
+------------------------------------------------+
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 97 05:40:27 UT From: "Randy Shewey" <randyshewey@msn.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re:Mike B shit storm Message-ID: <UPMAIL16.199708120738390671@msn.com>
Dear jammers, here's my story I've been a DT fan since about 92' but a short time computer owner(8 months). when I was first hooked up to the internet I went to a search engine punched in dt & I see all these cool dt sites I think "man some of these guys must know where I can get some more dt music thats not released. So I surfed around & everybody that had dt boots just wanted to trade, well being a newbie I had nothing in return & the ones I e-mailed never responded. Then I hit a dt page that had a link to Mike's page. Wham!! I think I must be dreaming all this cool music looks legit enough I'll risk 50 for a couple disks. About 3 weeks later I get em' & I'm in heaven now because I have dt that I couldn't get from any other source, I stress any I searched hours on end to no avail. The few I did find jammers said " stay away they'll rip you off", so what am I to do? I still crave more dt, in fact I just e-mailed Mike about getting some of his cdr's& I know I'm not going to get ripped off. I don't give a shit if some of you like it or dislike it, I'm paying for a service, & thats exactly what it is...I'd hate to see a couple of people ruin a RELIABLE source of music for everyone Hey, if Mike makes a couple bucks BFD welcome to America...my .02
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2854 **************************
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