YTSEJAM Digest 2866
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Angra: Live At FNAC
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@linux.ime.usp.br>
2) Dick-shun-ary
by Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca>
3) Re: Angra: Live At FNAC
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
4) Gnaaaaarg
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
5) Unclassified: Fix Boot
by Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au
6) Secrets, Free Money,
by "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu>
7) DT Parody "Wait for sheep"
by Rocky Dean <iban@mindspring.com>
8) Re: Dick-shun-ary
by Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2863
by "Paul Matthews" <J6865644@emu.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2863
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
11) Re: Bahr...
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:05:40 -0300 (EST)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@linux.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Angra: Live At FNAC
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970813215821.18205A-100000@turing.ime.usp.br>
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Carlos A. Alfaro wrote:
> the track list is as follows
>
> angels cry
> chega de saussade (i think i spelled it right)
That should be "Chega de Saudade" (it's something like "No More
Missing" -- in the sense of missing someone).
> never understand..
But could you tell us something about the sound quality of this
disc???
Thank you very much in advance, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:06:06 -0400 From: Lars Hellsten <lars@shaw.wave.ca> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Dick-shun-ary Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970813210605.006feab4@mail.tor.shaw.wave.ca>
> 2. A dictionary of the English language (so you can > look up such words as "carpe diem".)
1. "carpe diem" is two words, so it should be "carpe" and "diem"... 2. IT'S FUCKING LATIN DUMBASS!!!!!!! DIE!!!!!!! RRARRRRRRRRRGHH!!!
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:33:38 -0400 From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Angra: Live At FNAC Message-ID: <33F26072.D69EE35E@caribe.net>
Rogerio Brito wrote:
> > chega de saussade (i think i spelled it right) > > That should be "Chega de Saudade" (it's something like "No > More > Missing" -- in the sense of missing someone). >
thanx !! :) .. thats cool..
> > never understand.. > > But could you tell us something about the sound quality of > this > disc???
um..its great quality..its an "official release live album"..what i mean is that it has great sound.. hey which brings me to another question.. does Andre re-do vocals in studio for holy live? or for live at fnac? he seems so good and flawless... since i dont own any angra boots i cant really tell...
"At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com mailto:progboy@mindless.com
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 20:49:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Gnaaaaarg Message-ID: <199708140149.UAA10356@enteract.com>
> You're missing the point that DT has given Mike permission to do these > CDs. That's simply not fully the case. He has part of DT allowing him to do the bootlegs. Not all of the band. I don't care that the bootlegs exist, and I don't care that people tape shows... but keep the facts straight. Some people just WANT to believe some things, and ignore reality.
> die-hards. Since it's their material, they can do whatever the hell they > want with it.
Technically, no, that's not true either. You will get sued if you allow bootlegging and sale of your performances, unless your record company allows it or you have made thisexception in your contract, as I understand it. But I couldn't give a rat's ass about whet the record company wants, myself. Even if the whole band said they loved bootlegging, and the label said "Sure, go ahead." I would still dislike the idea of an outside party profitting off DT's music like that. I firmly believe that boots should be traded, and not sold. And yes, I have bought Bahr boots. But I decided about a month after I ordered my Precious Things cd that it was a bad idea, because I can easily get any of this material in .mp3 or .wav or on a tape or CDR from any number of DT fans, like Brian Cox.
> From: John Happe <jared@home.stlnet.com> > Subject: asdf
> I would like to unsubscribe to the jam. Sure, you weasel! Take the easy way out! See if we care!!!!
> From: omeraron@mail.netvision.net.il > Subject: shut the fuck up and listen to me for a second!!!!!!
What a pudwhap.
> ok!!! > i need to make some of you understand something very very > importent,and i hope that finaly someone will understand!!!!!!!!!!!
Important to you, or important to me? > 1)there will not be a bonus tracks to the japanese version of FII!!! > do you know why?!?!?!? > i'll tell you!! > because the totall run of the normal version of the cd is 78 fucking > minutes!!! and the maximum length of a cd is 79 minutes!! so if they > wanna have a bonus track they will have to do it very very fast,if > you know what i mean.....
Ever hear of a bonus cd? That's what they did with Awake...
> 2) stop crying over the fucking price!!! 20$ is nothing!!!!! > i live in israel,and in order for a cd to arrive here it has to be > ship through zillion countrys,and a normal cd cost here like 28$!! > so stop it,will ya????
Since you asked so nicely, no.
> p.s. > CAN SOMEONE PLEASE PLEASE!!!! TELL ME WERE I CAN GET A YTSEJAM > SHIRT?!?!??!??!? NOBODY ANSWERED ME LAST TIME!!!
Maybe because all caps tends to be very annoying to read. Try doing a web search for reality2 design, or hit the DT web ring and find Pat Griffin's page... that's all the help I can give ya.
> From: Jay Omega <jw@winternet.com> > Subject: moderation, Prism Records
> >>No offense, Skadz, but this debate *is* pertinent to the list. If you > >>are going to allow Mike a forum here to advertise his business, you > >>can't quash discussion of it. > > Yes he can, he's the moderator. :)
No he's not. He's the list owner, but he's not a tyrant or a moderator. This is not a moderated list. > And 'posts about DT boots' are, by definition, related to DT. Posts > about the legality, morality, and finances of bootlegging are not. > > But, this list belongs to the pos(t)ers, and not to Skadz, so...
No, this list belongs to Skadz. If he ran it poorly, we'd all move to a list that belonged to someone else. But he is the owner. That bears a certain responsibility and power.
> And say whether or not you approve of his advertising, whether or > not you approve of his bootlegging, and, if not, why not. Please > keep the 'why' to one line. (I suppose you can include a 'why so' > instead of a 'why not', but it's kinda irrelavant to the case at > hand.) > > One week from today (Tuesday, August 18) I'll mail the results to > the jam and to Skadz. Your name will be kept confidential.
Okay, but this won't resolve anything. Assume 10 people respond, 6 on Mike's side, and 4 on the opposition. Do you expect the majority rule to make the 4 people change their minds or stop discussing it? I wouldn't.
Again, I am not sure of what I think about this whole thing. Mike's not purposely designing his business off of making money on things he has no right to, but his practice is questionable. Mike's an extremely nice guy, and has helped me out immensely in the past... if anyone outside of the band was going to profit off the material, he's a better choice than most... but I have qualms about my own continued purchase of bootlegs, and I will be damned sure to discuss my opinions of these issues when the discussion becomes pertinent (like now). I guess if I had to choose right now, and I had my way, I'd say for certain, I don't agree with Mike making money off the discs. If that means a production run of 5 per title, I have no problems with that either. If that means no more bootlegs from Mike, then that's the consequence of my decision. But it's not my world... it's a free world, and all I'm gonna do is express my opinion, not make some half wit attempt to enforce it. --
Chris Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C -- (773) 248 8511 http://www.enteract.com (business) http://www.prognosis.com/madsman/ (my contribution to --------------------------------- the vast wealth of "To err is human... to suck out | underdeveloped one's brain with an orally | web sites) deployed flesh tube is not."-MS| **************** ---------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:05:22 +1000 From: Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Unclassified: Fix Boot Message-ID: <4A2564F3.000960A3.00@nschq-e-navy.navy.gov.au>
Hi Jammers, My mind has been changed about Mike Bahr after the recent rumblings, good luck to him, his products are first class. Now, I recieved in the mail yesterday a fix for 96 boot, the guy who sent it to me said it is a dub from a CD that he owns. The tape is from Providence 12/12/96, quality is A+. All I would like to know is the title of the CD, can anyone help. ?. As I said the quality is almost perfect, I don't think it's a soundboard source, probably a DAT audience. The bands performance and specially JLB is the best I have ever heard from DT on a boot. Never seen them live of course, living in OZ bands tend to forget the place on their so called 'world tours'. The new songs ? What can I say the 5 that are on the tape are great, early favourites are 'Peruvian Skies' and 'Lines In The Sand'. Though I haven't yet heard YNM, when placed in the contex of the album, it's a bit of a storm in the tea-cup thing IMO.
gRaham.
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:02:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu> To: Falling Into Potholes <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Secrets, Free Money, Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.970813190111.42456D-100000@dante11.u.washington.edu>
> From: "NEVANS.US.ORACLE.COM" <NEVANS@us.oracle.com> > Subject: Re: Is Your Web Site a Secret? > > If his service is so good, how come he has to spam mailing lists for > publicity... ;)
Probably because his service doesn't show up on search engines.
---- > From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com> > Subject: Price refunds? > > Besides, coughing up $5 to 500 people won't exactly help speed up > production. :)
But it sure would be a nice gesture. :) Don't the rest of you think so? All those in favor of Mike Bahr making his next cd project a $5 check instead of a cd, raise your hands! Plus he could lower the price to just *$10* for this project!! Wait...nevermind...scratch that last part...
> I hope people see that I'm just running this the logical way and not > trying to be a dick or anything.
Logical by what standard?
---- > From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl> > Subject: if ya cunt beat 'em... > > Oh, i dunno... You could've taken things to private email instead of > talking crap about Bahr on the list.
Forget Brian Cox for a minute. Explain to me what's wrong with talking crap about anyone on a mailing list. Don't tell me YOU'VE never done it, Mark. Boy, I remember my first time, oooh it was so good... It didn't hurt like everyone said it would, either...
> TRy durnik@goodnet.com You're talking about informing DT's managment to > save your ass, because DT knows you made the DAT. NEWSFLASH! They > already KNOW Bahr makes those boots. If they don't care that Bahr makes > the cds why should they care who provided the source for them ?
Now you must prove that not only the members of Dream Theater but also their management doesn't care what Mike Bahr does. Unfortunately I've got this trump card here in my hand. It's called "Tapestry."
> And that's what's really bothering you, right ?
I think Mike Bahr and Brian Cox both know that they could make each other more money than either of them has right now. And they'll probably both spit at me for saying that. :)
> Not very likely, since I'm from holland.
And as everyone knows, people from Holland never resort to fighting. They hate confrontation of any sort. ;)
Bafu Vai
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 22:05:41 -0400 From: Rocky Dean <iban@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT Parody "Wait for sheep" Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970814020541.006b18a8@pop.mindspring.com>
Grazing on a meadow, Eyes shine like the moon.
Hoping for a T-bone, Or leg-of-lamb real soon.
The sheapard goes behind a tree with his favorite little sheep, He should be gone for minuites we shall see. It musta been a quicky, back the the bush the wolf must creep, so quitely he drools and waits for sheep.
He stares at the little lamb and tries not to wheep, but things will now change cause the sheapards got his strenght again, him and his sheep are now gone.
The pool from his drool like a lake now, His stomache growling and wont wait, God give him the speed to beat the sheapards sexual stamina, and get in a snack while hes away.
Out jumps the bad wolf, very much surprising to the sheep. but luck was with them now, for there, lying in bed, little bo-peep looking bad, and now his hunger must fend, him hormones take over, the end...
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 19:04:25 -0700 From: Rick Audet <ytse@cris.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Dick-shun-ary Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970813190420.006d3a7c@pop3.concentric.net>
Lars Hellsten screamed, > >> 2. A dictionary of the English language (so you can >> look up such words as "carpe diem".) > >1. "carpe diem" is two words, so it should be "carpe" and "diem"... >2. IT'S FUCKING LATIN DUMBASS!!!!!!! DIE!!!!!!! RRARRRRRRRRRGHH!!!
Hey smart guy, look how I wrote it: there's a space between "carpe" and "diem". Looks like two words, don't it? Yeah, I thought so. Now that I made that clear, open up your American Heritage Dictionary and tell me if this *two-word-concatenation* (is that specific enough for you smart guy?) is listed in there. Is it? Well? Oh, you don't *have* a dictionary? That's okay. Go buy one, then get back to me.
You're being a dick.
Rick Audet
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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:12:07 +1000 From: "Paul Matthews" <J6865644@emu.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2863 Message-ID: <10BC85F4C45@emu.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au>
> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:05:19 -0700 (PDT) > From: ytsejam@ax.com > Reply-to: ytsejam@ax.com > To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> > Subject: YTSEJAM digest 2863
> > > > > > > If anyone's curious, here's my costs as they stand now... > > > > $4.00 - media. Remember that discs fail, otherwise this would > > be less than $3. > > $2.50 - packaging. Those slick liners cost money. > > $2.00 - shipping, including packet and so on. > > $1.50 - Sales tax on all raw materials, since I don't have a > > tax ID this is unfortunately necessary. > > $3.00 - estimated portion of total equipment costs. > > $various - cost for the music itself. Some stuff I got free. > > Other stuff I had to buy. I paid over $600 for the > > master to Critical Mass, and I'm paying $400 for the > > master to E2E. It depends. > > $1.00 - total for jewelcase plus assorted misc. such as pens, etc > > $1.00 - approx. electricity it takes to make a disc. Remember that > > the entire system is powered, plus it's temperature > > sensitive so I gotta keep the room at 75' when it's over > > 110' outside, plus light, plus monitor, etc. > > $2-4 - my take-home pay per disc. If I make 10 discs per day, I > > made about as much as the average burger flipper. I do > > try to make far more than that on most days. :) > > > > > > > Hopefully, this will be my only public comment on this subject. > Follow up via private email if it's something you only need to say to me. > > I don't know how many of you have had experience doing mail-order, > but I've had some. It's amazing how much of the costs and time spent is > due to little things. People who were saying that it would only cost a > few dollars and would only take a small amount of time obviously haven't > had experience doing it. If you have, I'd like to hear how you did it. > Doing a single CD or even a few each week is one thing, but doing 10 or > more per day starts taking up serious amounts of time and costs quite a > bit (as you can see above from Mike's breakdown of his costs). > > What I've done below is estimate (given my own experiences) how > much time Mike Bahr spends doing each task and then add those times up > to get a total time spent per CD. I also emailed this to Mike and he > confirmed that my estimates were accurate. > These times are just *averages*, so sometimes it will take less > time and others it will take more. I've tried to be conservative, so > I wouldn't be surprised if it actually took more time. In fact, these > times assume that Mike is organzied and disciplined enough to do things > very efficiently. If you think these times are inaccurate, try doing > it for a few days and let me know how you were able to improve on the > times. I think both Mike and I would be interested in how to improve > in mail-order efficiency . > My estimates on how much time Mike spends: > > > > 20 min/day mailing packages (driving, standing in line at post office) > > 2 min/disc addressing + sealing package (more if shipping addresses > aren't computerized and organized). > > 30 min/day reading and responding (when necessary) to numerous emails. > > 5 min/disc -- time spent putting discs in recorder, starting recording, > removing disc and placing it in jewel case, placing label in > jewel case, making sure recording hasn't failed. > > 40+ hours total to gather material for a disc, digitize it and > arrange/mix it properly to prepare it for recording. > > 5+ hours total to prepare label, talking with artist, and getting copies > made and cut them to size. > > > 5 min/order for opening envelopes, making sure the correct amount > was paid, putting their return address and order in database. > > 10 min/day driving to and depositing checks at bank and waiting in > lines and getting out money to pay for post office and supplies. > This could be less if he went only once per week. > > 2 min/disc making sure that the persons who have ordered discs have > received the ones they ordered, marking this down in database. > > > Plus time spent looking for the best prices for supplies and > making the orders for supplies (and possibly picking them up). And > probably other things that I'm forgetting. > > > If we assume that he sends out about 10 CDs per day then for > a release of 250 CDs, we get the following average time spent per disc: > > 2 min/disc for taking to post office and mailing > 2 min/disc for addressing + packaging > 3 min/disc for reading/responding to emails > 5 min/disc for recording CD > 9.5 min/disc for time spent gathering material for CD, digitizing it, > arranging/mixing it. > 1.2 min/disc for preparing label, talking with artist, getting copies > approx 4 min/disc for opening envelopes, making sure amount is correct, > putting return address and order in database > 1 min/disc for depositing checks at bank. > 2 min/disc for making sure that the persons who have ordered discs > have received the ones they ordered and checking to see if > people who reserved a disc still want them. > > > Total: 25.7 min/disc > > At 10 discs per day, that's 257 minutes/day or 4 hours and 17 minutes. > > > So, if as Mike claims, he makes $2-$4 per disc, then he makes > about $20 - $40 per day. This is $5 - $10 per hour. I'd be willing > to bet that he makes more than that at his other job. So, he's > obviously not doing this just for the money! He's doing it for the > fun of it and he's making money at it because otherwise he couldn't > justify the time. > How many of you would be willing to spend anywhere near that > amount of time *per day* to make CDs for people without profit?? > Personally, I appreciate the time and effort that Mike puts into creating > these CDs and I'm glad he can make enough of a profit to continue doing it. > >
Good grief... Who really cares? Just let the guy do his job.
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:01:27 -0400 From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2863 Message-ID: <33F27507.263F2261@caribe.net>
Paul Matthews wrote:
> > > > Good grief... Who really cares? Just let the guy do his job.
hmm i do.. but..did you have to quote the whole 2 messages?!?!?!
"At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com mailto:progboy@mindless.com
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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 23:41:33 -0400 From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Bahr... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970813234133.006b60fc@mindspring.com>
>Good point. But your post hardly made me feel accepting or happy or >hopeful about a situation in which the distributor makes a profit and the >supplier makes nothing. Whether that's Brian Cox's genuine gripe in this >situation or not, that's what happened between he and Mike Bahr. What he >said has been refuted by Mike himself, so at the moment all we can do to >decide who's right look deep within our heart of hearts and convince >ourselves that we trust one of them more than the other. The phrase "who's >right" is synonymous with "who's telling the truth."
The dispute b/t Brian and Mike was not even considered when I wrote that post. I hadn't even read about it yet. I can only speak for my own experience, and Mike has always been no less than a very honest businessman at all times, so I've got to respect him for that...
>Find some nice folks on this list who will dub things for you for a blank >cassette, a $5 check, or in some cases for free. Don't pretend that they >don't exist
Sure they exist. That's how I got my start in boots too, but it takes forever to get them and then you always run the risk of getting bad tapes or a bad trader. Mike releases stuff that would normally be anywhere from challenging to impossible to get for the average guy that doesn't have alot of time to devote to this, does so at a reasonable price, AND puts it on CD. Kinda hard to passup if you ask me. If he makes money doing this, more power to him. It's not like he's cheating the band or anything, as some people like to preach about. None of the material Mike has released was ever on an official DT album, and none of it will ever be released. So, the band wasn't going to be making money off of the recording anyway. It may even help a relatively obscure band like DT by broadening the fan base...
>"Yeah, Brian Cox, he's like a brother to me. But for the purposes of this >exercise I shall use him not only as a punching bag but also as a >barfbag." :)
:) You may be correct on this one. I really don't have a problem with Brian, as I'm sure he didn't reply to me for those several (thousand) emails b/c he was just quite busy, as I am normally. I admit that part came out a little more personally directed than I intended. But, as I'm sure you know, one of the problems with trading over the net is that people are often very difficult to get ahold of. You'll send an email and hope for a reply several days later. Might as well be snail mail. (Maybe not quite THAT bad). :) Take care...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Adam Pye (Alpine) Mindspring Technical Support alpineone@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone (Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2866 **************************
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