YTSEJAM Digest 2872
Today's Topics:
1) Steve Morse
by Dave Silva <silva@physci.psu.edu>
2) CDs, etc
by Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
3) Fates Warning Tour
by Nick Giannotti <N.Giannotti@COMEQUITY.COM>
4) fates near detroit
by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
5) CD Technology
by "Matt Evans" <bmajik@nocboy.ntr.net>
6) wow an amazing observation....
by Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
7) CD and sampling technology
by NightCast <nightcast@usa.net>
8) Re: Am I alone?
by John Murphey <murphey@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
9) Long Time, No Read
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@uvm-gen.emba.uvm.edu>
10) More TIME SIGS....
by Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt>
11) As Non-DT as i wanna be(and still look cool in ytse).
by Syrinx <syrinx@mindspring.com>
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:02:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dave Silva <silva@physci.psu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Steve Morse
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.970815115744.7895B-100000@marge.physci.psu.edu>
For those of you who are Steve Morse fans.........
The Steve Morse Band released an album called 'Stand Up' just before or
right after 'The Introduction.' It since then went out of print and Steve
had impossible problems with the record company involved to release it
again. Well, they now have permission to release it under the Dregs
label. Just go to www.stevemorse.com and you can get all of the info.
The album is pretty cool with guest singers and guitarists including Peter
Frampton and Eric Johnson. Of course, the guitar playing is vintage
Morse.
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 17:06:41 +0100 (BST)
From: Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: CDs, etc
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.26-0815160641-0b0rZWN@mor.apsoft.co.uk>
> From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop)
> Subject: Am I alone?
>
> am I the only person who will be very glad when the current Fates Warning tour
> is over?
By the sounds of it, Fates Warning will be pretty glad when it's over too ;-)
> From: Mark Metzger <mmetzger@bostech.com>
> Subject: Smokin Good Rope ......
>
> I dont know whether to laugh or cry. NOBODY on the jam seems to have a
> sense of humor any more
It's OK, Mark . . I thought your post was very funny. But I thought
the people who actually believed you were even funnier. :-)
20-bit sound, when dithered down to 16-bit on a CD, can often give better
results than simply recording in 16-bit in the first place. It's analogous
to taking a 24-bit graphic (16 million colours) and dithering it down to
8-bit (256 colours) . . . this can still look much nicer on-screen than
creating your graphics with 8-bit colour in the first place.
That's why many people are moving over to 20-bit mastering. Easy.
> From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu>
> Subject: T-Ride and thoughts
>
> and finally.....India (the country) turns 50 years old tomorrow,
> celebrating a great half-century free of those damn brits (Hi Graham,
Yup . . . the celebrations were quite spectacular in this neck of the
woods. I never realised Pakistani people were quite so adept at
bagpipe-playing . . .
Graham
-- Graham Borland Email : gborland@apsoft.co.uk WWW : http://www.apsoft.co.uk Alternative Publishing Ltd Tel : 0141 418 0881 30 Clyde Place, Glasgow G5 8AQ Fax : 0141 418 0889------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:10:09 -0400 From: Nick Giannotti <N.Giannotti@COMEQUITY.COM> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Fates Warning Tour Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Commonwealth_Equ%l=MAIL_SERVER-970815161009Z-1003@mail_server.comequity.com>
Neil Gallop wrote,
>Hi all > >am I the only person who will be very glad when the current Fates Warning tour >is over?
No. I will personally stand up and cheer when they close this tour out. All I see are the same rehashes of "The band was great, you have to see them, then we went to the bus and they hung out with us and signed autographs...", with only the names of the cities changing. Personally, my care factor is a big ol' zero.
And I don't see what the big deal about Divine Regale is, either...
-Nicholas (Mogus on IRC)
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@umich.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: fates near detroit Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.970815120705.13583A-100000@centipede.rs.itd.umich.edu>
first, I wanna give the carpe diem dude a straight answer, which it seems this forum is incapable of doing.......... carpe diem="sieze the day"
fates.....ummmmm, everything Ptacek said and then some.....y'know, I KNEW it was gonna be good, but.....left there thinking "yes has just dropped out of my top 5 fave bands", among other thihngs......short guy, made the mistake of hanging back early in fates set.....kept a sight line on zonder throughout, though, and the guy, as has been previously reported, is a machine, freakin' awesome........ended up in front of Vera, about third or 4th row of humanity deep, wicked fretless playing, and me, who liked John Bush's vocals in Motley Crue am now thinking, "I gotta find me some Armored Saint stuff".....as a result of that location, I was also in front of the keyboardist....he didn't play some of the keys solos in APSOG....LONG LIVE KEVIN MOORE....and he did interject solos for Frank Aresti's git parts in the old songs, seemed a bit odd hearing jazzy bits in fates songs, but the only time it really bugged me was in Monument.... Alder was smiling, shaking hands all over the stage, seemed to really be into it, seemed to be having fun which makes it so much better, and matheos, the Creator of all that is Fates, well I didn't have a sightline to him too often, but i'm sure he was kickin' too
final analysis: my concert experience is extremely limited, but this is hands down the best I've ever been to......other bands (DT) are gonna have to put one one monster of a show to beat this in my head.....maybe it was just the club setting, with the stage a mere 6 inches off the ground, with ray alder reaching into the crowd, shaking hands in the middle of songs, with Joey Vera blatantly mugging for a camera the girl next to me was holding, with zonder just destroying the kit, losing a stick in the middle of a high powered section of apsog and later face the fear and not missing a beat and matheos way over beyond the mass of humanity playing and every once in a while appearing thru a break in the clouds....errrr....crowd, it was all in all, one hell of a night for me
thanks for listening partha sarathi mukhopadhyay
oh yeah, met a coupla jammers too, doesn't happen every day.....Messrs Garinger and Kotzien, glad to have made your acquaintance :)
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:54:22 -0400 From: "Matt Evans" <bmajik@nocboy.ntr.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: CD Technology Message-ID: <9708151254.ZM2142@nocboy.ntr.net>
I may be speaking out of my ass here but... :)
The previous description of CD technology which mentioned x and y axes and such was pretty much correct as i understand things....
just to (hopefully) clarify :
CD's are neat because they are digital, that is, they are 1's and 0's. You are either reading a true or a false. If think about a wave form that could either be on or off, that wouldn't be a very interesting wave to listen to, it infact would be a square wave (or at least rectangular). I dont know how many of you have done some wave construction and then listened to the resultants, but to get a nice clena sounding tone, you want more resoltion and curvature. this is best exemplified from going square wave, triangle wave, and then finally sine wave, which is absolutely perfect pitch. btw, the flute is the musical instrumenbt which produces the most near-perfect sine waves.
at any rate, intrinsically using only 1's or 0's to represent a wave is stupid. there isn't enough resolution to do anything useful involving music. so what you do is use more than 1 group of 1's or 0's to represent a given segment of the wave... this number is the bitsize... the bitsize of the data directly controls the resolution of that data. imagine a stair step graph as a representation of a curve of the equatoin y = x, and if you look at any given value, say, y,x = 255, you're going to have nice big unit sized stair steps. zoom out from the graph and realize those shoddy, broken segments are supposed to represent a smooth continuous curve and you realize that its a pretty shoddy implementation. i dont know if any of you people had 8 bit sound cards (original sound blaster for example) but 8 bit audio never sounds as "good" or as "clear" as the nicer 16 bit cards. well, you only have 255 stair steps to represent the entire possible range of sound data. and you have to account for both halves of the wave (y > 0, y < 0), so you really only have 127 star steps in a given direction. btw, i got 255 from 2^8 -1 , i.e. 8 bits of resolution.
well, if you double the bitsize of the sample data, you now are dealing with 2^16 bits, or 2^16 possible values. if you put all 65536 little stair steps in place over the 255 stair steps, and keep the maximum and minimum of the curve the same and such, the 65 thousand little steps make a much better approximation of a smooth nice ear-friendly curve than those shoddy little steps from the 8 bit world did. you now have 256 times more precision in representing curve segment. so two bits of curve right next to each other can be 256 times closer together yet still be recorded as perceivably different.
it is my assumption that from my understanding of curves and curve estimation and sampling that the limiting factor in frequency response frankly has nothign to do ith sample rate or bit size. all data is going to be scaled down to fit within the range of values available. more bits just allow us to more accurately represent the differences in adjacent samples, but theoretically if you were just listening to one tone you could make it sound as good with 1 bit as you could with 1024 bits. that bit just means "do this thing". the more bits you have the more different ways you can say "do this thing slightly differently from the last thing you did".
the other large aspect of digital recording of analog waveforms is the sample rate. we all know that higher sample rate means bigger files but better sound. here's why. what you're doing when yo digitally sample something is you're taking a snapshot of the wave form once every SampleRate times per second. if your sample rate is 1 hz, you're sampling once per second. that means you produce 1 value per second, with a resolution of whatever your bitsize is. if you're trying to model a curve thats changing alot over that one second, its going to sound shitty/stupid, and you wont have any resolution in the time axis. if you take 2 samples in 1 second (2 hz SR) than your data has just doubled in size, but it now sounds twice as accurate. what you do each time you sample is you make another stair step, you cut a slice of the curve out, figure out what its value should be according to a frequence response scale, and then assign it to the closest value your bitsize is capable of representing. obviously the more stair steps per time, the more accurate representation of a curve you have. when you have infinitely many stair steps, you have a sine wave, and you have analog data, not sampled data :)
so all a CD is is 44.1 thousand snap shots of a audio waveform per second, (actually 2, 22050 thousand snap shots of two different wave forms, its stereo :) and each of those snapshots is recorded with 16 bits of precision, for a possibility of 65536 different sounds/intensities that can occur in a given sample.
this is also how you get the storage size of a CD, not incedentally. 44100 samples per second each sample is 16 bits = 2 bytes ( on any standard machine anyway :)....
so in a second you have 88200 bytes of data, in a minute you have 5292000 bytes, andin 74 minutes you have 391,608,000 bytes... which is surprisingly low :) in that case i wonder if each channel is recorded at 44.1k , which ends up giving you 746 megs of space on a cd. but i imagine there are all sorts of parity bits and such and track info and things of that nature on an audio cd. which take up loads of space.
ahh well, maybe my math at the end is all messed up, but thats how its supposed to work anyway :)
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:26:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Albert Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: wow an amazing observation.... Message-ID: <199708151726.NAA14412@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
This has nothing to do with Dream Theater, but does have to do with the Ytsejam in general.
After reading the last 60 or so posts (I'm in ack mode, it makes me feel good to see so many messages waiting for me :P) it's just amazed me how diverse this list really is.
I mean, I have no idea about CDs and their production, sampling rates, etc. besides the fact that a pretty light shines on a shiny disc while its spinning fast to make sound, but it's definitely interesting, even if it's over my head (I'm a bio. major).
Anyway, does anyone find it amazing that you read these posts that are just chock full of insane complex info (for the layperson), and then read a jam or two ago, FUCK FUCK DIE NAZI-JEW SCUM....
I just find that utterly amazing (and funny).......
Just wanted to let everyone know that no matter how fucked this list can get, it's still a amazing conglomeration people, whether homo, fuckin' idiots, dicks, cocksuckers, what have you.
I'm definitely happy to be here............*sniff*
-Al -- ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@
I inhale the sun...........I exhale the absence of light I am the number One..........burning.
^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^ email: balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu the_prof@bigfoot.com HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:34:47 -0600 From: NightCast <nightcast@usa.net> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: CD and sampling technology Message-ID: <01BCA96F.DEEBF180@tron>
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Chris Oates said:=20 The whole debate over "resolution" vs "sampling rate" is kind of silly. Both contribute to overall sound quality in equal measure. Imagine if = you graph out your sound wave on paper, with time in the x direction (as is usually done) -- sampling rate is your x resolution, and the number of = bits (often called resolution) is your y resolution. Increasing the bits = allows for smoother curves since you have a creater number of values for the aplitude of the wave, and increasing the rate allows for higer pitched sounds to be heard, since pitch is directly related to frequency, and = you need at least 2 samples per wave period to be able to hear the sound. = So, at 44.1 Khz, the highest frequency encoded is in the 22Khz range, and so = on.
You hit it right on the head. That's exactly what it is. Higher bits = allow for greater variation between LOUD and (quiet), higher sampling = rates mean more available frequencies. So whoever said you were wrong = was wrong. =20
20 bit mastering, to the best of my knowledge, is this (and considering = I make several CDs a week, I feel relatively comfortable with my = knowledge): When mixing tracks (say, a guitar and a voice) these = sometimes get *too* loud combined (especially with more tracks) and = clipping occurs. With 20 bits instead of 16, you have a bit more space = there to get everything in before clipping occurs. (clipping is when = the digital data gets too loud so that it will top out at the 16th bit.. = or whatever bit your highest is). With 20 bits though, you have that = extra bit of space to avoid clipping, and then when you are done mixing, = everything is scaled down to 16 bit to be put on CD. Audio CDs are ONLY = 16 bit 44khz. (Actually I think it's 44.1khz, but that's not a bit = issue, right?) 20 bit mastering would be better called 20 bit mixing.
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:09:52 -0500 From: John Murphey <murphey@pop.a001.sprintmail.com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Am I alone? Message-ID: <33F49B70.1513@pop.a001.sprintmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 97 09:31:56 +0200 > From: nga@software-ag.de (Neil Gallop) > To: ytsejam@ax.com > Cc: nga@server3.software-ag.de > Subject: Am I alone? > Message-ID: <9708150731.AA00302@sundoc13.software-ag.de> > > > Hi all > > am I the only person who will be very glad when the current Fates Warning tour > is over? How many posts have there been telling us how great this tour is meant > to have been? How come so few people are going to the shows? I'd rather read > reviews of the Rush shows... (And before anybody asks, yes, I have seen Fates > Warning live, and they bored me). > > stay safe and happy listening > Neil Gallop > (nga@software-ag.de) > Currently playing: Rammstein - Herzeleid
I really have to bite my tongue on this one. There may be a lot of music discussed on here that I don't like, but I never slam another band on here. We can go through all the merits about how reasonable it is to discuss bands other than DT on here (Rush included), but let me give you the most compelling reason that you should be concerned about the Fates tour:
Take your entire post, and replace "Fates Warning" with "Dream Theater":
am I the only person who will be very glad when the current Dream Theater tour is over? How many posts have there been telling us how great this tour is meant to have been? How come so few people are going to the shows? I'd rather read reviews of the Rush shows... (And before anybody asks, yes, I have seen Dream Theater live, and they bored me).
My gut is telling me that DT is gonna have as difficult a time filling clubs up as FW has had, unless they promote more, book better venues, get more publicity out. Certainly, a great number of people will come out just to watch JP shred, but the FW tour should serve as a warning to DT as well concerning the road this year.
It pisses me off to think that people like Celine Dion can sing old remade Meatloaf songs to stadiums when FW has to play to small crowds. It could happen to DT as well.
Besides Neil, did you actually go out and see FW?
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@uvm-gen.emba.uvm.edu> To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Long Time, No Read Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970815140552.2214D-100000@griffin.emba.uvm.edu>
Hey, folks. I'm like, 1000 jams behind, but I just wanted to send a short message to people I owe tapes to. Please be patient; I'm going to be moving twice more before the month is out. Once I get settled in Virginia (meaning, have my stereo hooked up again), I'll get right on these trades. Thanks for waiting!
Remember, the FAQ is going to be moving soon, but it has not moved yet. The address will be http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html. I'll let everyone know when this happens. Also, the digital.dreamt.org ftp site is down, since that machine is not hooked up anymore, so if you need ftp access to the FAQ, use one of the other ftp sites.
Hey, if I'm missing anything good, e-mail me! :) -d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ Secretary & Webmaster cmerlo@cs.uvm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" UVM Comp Sci Student Assn d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" - Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Maintainer of the Official Dream Theater Frequently Asked Questions List http://www.emba.uvm.edu/~cmerlo/dtfaq.html
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:02:11 +0200 From: Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: More TIME SIGS.... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970815190211.00681850@mail.telepac.pt>
1-In a piece, how can I distinguish between: -6/8 (Compound Meter) -6/8 (Simple Meter : 4/8 + 2/8)
2-Can't alternating 5/8 and 2/8 meters be replaced by a single 7/8 meter or it modifies the feeling of the song? (the same with 5/8 + 4/8 <=> 9/8)
3-Has anyone got the *complete* ACOS MIDI or guitar tablature some guys were working on?
___ | Pedro Filipe ___ * | * ___ & | * | * | Francisco Miguel *| \ | / |* (FleXable) * | \ /|\ / | * * | \ / | \ / | * * | \ | / | * * * | / \ | / \ | * * | / \|/ \ | * "To: ytsejam@ax.com *| / | \ |* Subject: asdf _|_* | *_|_ Message: unsubscribe DT" * | * _|_ DREAM THEATER
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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 16:06:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Syrinx <syrinx@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: qghost@ptd.net Subject: As Non-DT as i wanna be(and still look cool in ytse). Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970815160552.3037ac3a@pop.mindspring.com>
Just wanted to pass some Finneus Gauge info along to you guys (and gals):
1. One of the local stations here in Philly (94 WYSP) is going to be playing (hopefully) Finneus Gauge on their "Loud And Local" program. This will happen on Sunday at 10pm (it's hosted by Mel Toxic, the much traveled Philly DJ). Set your radios!
2: >finneus gauge will appear on the WVIA Homegrown Music show on Tuesday, >October 14, 1997. WVIA broadcasts from a 50,000 watt >antenna in Scranton, PA and can be heard on 89.9 FM, with translators >serving Williamsport (89.3), East Stroudsburg/Poconos (94.3), Allentown >(99.3), and Lewisburg (100.1). This radio program is part of George >Graham's Mixed Bag Contemporary Music Show. Please visit his >website for more info and directions to the studio.
This show is going to be a blast, so i welcome all of you to either make the trip to go or to listen to this on the radio. It should be a great show (Finneus puts on a great live show, so this is definatly a show you don't want to miss)! If any of you from the Philadelphia region wishes to go, e-mail me (I'm driving up to see the show - there's a shock - so there's room in my car). I hope to see some of you there!
mike. ------------------------------------------------ syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com erotomania!: http://mindspring.com.~syrinx the official lemur voice website: http://mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm
(c) 1997 Erotomania, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2872 **************************
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