YTSEJAM Digest 2877
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Geoff Tate
by Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
2) Re: Geoff Tate
by Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2876
by durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
4) Jim Matheos' father...
by Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
5) Re: Mike Bahr: the myth, the man, the legend
by Fern Fryer! <fernandm@U.Arizona.EDU>
6) infinity over eight and bafu gets a eoj
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
7) Can't wait 'til September 24th.
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
8) Unknowns, Tigger, Corpses
by "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2876 (Weird Dreams)
by BillB67@ix.netcom.com
10) RE:Digital and Analog...
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
11) QUESTION TIME
by Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt>
12) Queensryche on AudioNet
by bwrights@dnaent.com (Bill Wrightson)
13) frames per sec
by Raivo Hool <raitz@guvatrak.ee>
14) Bizarre thoughts...
by "NGA" <nga@software-ag.de>
15) Re: Dream Theater: A Commercial Success?
by rbrito@ime.usp.br (Rogerio Brito)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 04:29:01 +0000
From: Davidjon Sabetai <DAVIDJON@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Geoff Tate
Message-ID: <19970818042851.AAD23560@LOCALNAME>
>well I caught the QR concert on audionet.com last night, and while the
>sound sucked (real audio) it was good enough to hear that Geoff Tate's
>voice is really hurting. I heard he was sick, so maybe that's it, but I
>doubt it.
I was at the West Palm Beach, FL show a week ago, and he hit all the high
notes. I was listening for them. One thing that you could have missed, since
you only heard the concert is Geoff turning to the side to cough or wipe his
nose. I *saw* him do this.
Isaac
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:54:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Zebrowski <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Geoff Tate
Message-ID: <199708180454.AAA29284@umbc9.umbc.edu>
Sez "woot":
> well I caught the QR concert on audionet.com last night, and while
> the sound sucked (real audio) it was good enough to hear that Geoff
> Tate's voice is really hurting. I heard he was sick, so maybe that's
> it, but I doubt it. He had trouble hitting tons of notes that weren't
> even the slightest bit "high." most of the high notes he didn't even
> attempt. All these ppl that have been posting about how he was still
> right on and everything have been fooling themselves. Word of advice: If
> you sing, don't smoke.
All I'm saying. The thing about people fooling themselves especially.
There are now 2 DOCUMENTED concerts from the last 2 tours--San Jose on PL
tour and this one for HitNF--where Geoff has sucked. Coincidence?
Probably. Sure, people get sick. They can't help it. But, to all the
people who say that Geoff's voice is still as good as it was: document
it. Find a bootleg of a show where he sounds that good. I'll put the San
Jose PL show up against nothing anyday.
> woot, the unofficial spice girl slapping champion
Personally, I'd rather the Spice Girls be the official Steve Z slapping
champions. :)
> btw, if this seems a bit harsh it's cause GT had an awesome voice and
> it pisses me off that he wasted it.
Me too. This is my whole beef about the whole thing. I still think the
songs on HitNF were bad, but I think it would at least be listenable if
Geoff could still SING notes he now has to SCREAM.
To me, the SOUND is more important than how high the note is. If Geoff
were singing within his deteriorated range and coming up with alternate
melodies on the old stuff that he could still sing and sound good, then I
wouldn't have a problem. I'd rather hear him sing the high notes in
Revolution Calling down an octave than hear him scream Take Hold of the
Flame, even if he does hit "the note."
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 22:37:44 -0700 (MST)
From: durnik <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2876
Message-ID: <199708180537.WAA29507@goodnet.com>
> Well, I thought I'd share a really weird dream that I had the other night.
> me. He said some date. Five days later I receive a huge (lifesize) package
> from Mike Bahr. It turns out it was a dead body. I'm like holy shit! Then
> I hear other posts from jammers about receiving dead bodies. A couple days
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, orders are open as of today on the new
Dream Theater bootleg, "Dead Body". Thanks for the reminder. ;)
> > would be good introductory albums by each band? Thanks in advance.
>
> I can answer the Savatage part:
> EDGE OF THORNS!!!! Damn fine album.
> ~Eckie thinks Mike Bahr would agree
Yup. Here are the crucial first albums for each band...
Savatage - well, duh, Edge of Thorns.
King's X - Gretchen Goes to Nebraska
Galactic Cowboys - Space in your Face
Tori Amos - Under the Pink (I used to think LE but not now)
Type O Negative - October Rust
Rush - Caress of Steel (ok ok, just kidding.
> "They're $25 apiece because I'm trying to purchase Australia. I figure if
> I can get a few continents out of the deal, then I'm not really making a
> profit."
Actually, Austria. That way I have a really easy commute to my
branch offices in Bern, Instanbul, and Prague.
- Mike Bahr - durnik@goodnet.com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:46:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Pat Griffin <c675311@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu>
To: ThE NuGgeTjAm <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Jim Matheos' father...
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.970818004352.22846A-100000@sgi8.phlab.missouri.edu>
I don't know if this has reached the jam yet, but I have some sad news. I
found out at the Fates show on Friday that Jim Matheos' father had passed
away earlier that day. Fates still put on the show, and it was damn near
flawless. I'll post a review soon (most likely tomorrow), but I wanted to
get this news out to the list as soon as I could (just got back from
Ohio).
=20
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
| Pat Griffin Reality=B2 Design |
| c675311@showme.missouri.edu c675311@cclabs.missouri.edu |
h t t p : / / w w w . m i s s o u r i . e d u / ~ c 6 7 5 3 1 1 /
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 23:34:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Fern Fryer! <fernandm@U.Arizona.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Bahr: the myth, the man, the legend
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.970817233055.25990A-100000@f1n7.U.Arizona.EDU>
On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, Brandon Elhai wrote:
>
> Hey folks-
>
> Well, I thought I'd share a really weird dream that I had the other night.
> Anyways, in my dream, I emailed Mike about when my CDs were gonna get to
> me. He said some date. Five days later I receive a huge (lifesize) package
> from Mike Bahr. It turns out it was a dead body. I'm like holy shit! Then
> I hear other posts from jammers about receiving dead bodies. A couple days
> after I received the body, I receive another package from Mike and lo and
> behold it was a CD. I'm like "what the fuck?" First he sends me a body and
> then he just sends me a CD like nothing ever happened. The same day I get
> the CD, I get a a voice mail from Mike which says, "hahaha...you never
> know what you're gonna get from Mike bahr. It could be a CD, or it COULD
> be a dead body. Ha ha ha." I was really freaked out by all this...
>
> And then I woke up.
>
> Fucked up isn't it? I think I'll go take my medication now. :)
>
>
>
> Brandon
Hey Mike, you better not be sending people from Da' Desert. Vince, ~E,
Uncle Heavy D, you still there!!! I just hope you sent Vince to Woot, and
Eckie to Bafu.
Fernando Ma, hoping he's not next
Materials science & engineering
University of Arizona
http://bigdog.engr.arizona.edu/~ma
"I like to work without contracts whenever possible. Contracts
mean 'I don't trust you.'" - Victor Wooten
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 01:30:47 -0700
From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: infinity over eight and bafu gets a eoj
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970818013029.006e6224@cats.ucsc.edu>
Hm. I'm answering a lot of meter questions. Just call me "Meter-butler"
or whatever the masculine of meter maid is ...
First off, Pedro in the front row:
> Where are the accents supposed to be in a 4/4 measure,
> a 3/4 measure, and a 6/8 measure?
>
> I think that in 4/4, the accents are in beats 1 and 3
> (not sure though).
Okay, in four-four there are four beats as we know. Without syncopation,
you surmise correctly. Beats 1 and three are the strongest, with one being
stronger than three. If you add in symcopation, you can accent anywhere.
In three-four, the strongest beat is one, with two and three being about
equal.
In six-eight, beat one is strongest, and beat two is weaker (remember, only
two beats in six-eight)
I'm sure I'm gonna get more questions, but I'm happy to answer until my
brain melts, which is ... uh ... oops ... closer than I though.
Next we have Shai Yallin. Welcome to the show, Shai.
>Well, there's like this unison in UAGM that starts at 3:59
>and it's basicly 2 mesures of 4/4 and 1 of 3/4.
>
>Now my question for all of u smart guys is:
>
> Is it defined as 11/4 or as 2 x 4/4 + 3/4?
> why is it defined that way (include an explanation with your
> answer)
The part you are thinking of is the part at the beginning of the
instrumental passage, right? Well, according to the Official Book (tm)
it's eleven-four. Why is a matter of style, but here's my interpretation
(and I agree with the eleven-four)
1) It saves time, energy, etc. to write it as one meter than have a change
every few sections. They repeat the same rhythm nine times (about) so,
with eleven-four you have one meter change at the beginning and one at the
end versus something like twenty the other way.
2) The whole phrase together is repeated, making it feel like a cohesive
whole riff, and not three riffs put together. Therefore, to show this, the
eleven-four is more descriptive.
3) Looking at the way the notes are done the first time (setting up the
feel of the groove) the first four beats is Qnote, Qnote, Erest, Enote,
Qnote. The second is Erest, Enote, Qrest, Qnote, Qrest. The last three
beats is Qnote, Qnote,
diddly-with-sixteenth-note-triplets-and-an-eighth-note. The important part
is the second four beats, which, if it were to stand on its own as a
measure, would have an odd enough syncopation to be harder to read later
on. So, it's all glommed together into eleven-four to help focus on the
syncopation as it should be.
There you have three reasons, all of which can be combined together to give
much reason for having it as eleven-four as opposed to four-four, four-four
and three-four.
And lastly, remember that music is feel. There's never a right or wrong
way to transcribe the meter (as long as the number of notes is right) but
there are ways that can express more. Much like our old friend and much
maligned language, Engrish.
__ /\ __
__\/__\/__ ~Chris
\_||_/ http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/
/__||__\
// \ | \\ "Let nothing bleed into nothing, and did nothing at all"
\| Jim Matheos, Fates Warning, "A Pleasant Shade of Gray"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 01:44:33 -0700
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Can't wait 'til September 24th.
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=kbhq%l=KBHQ-970818084433Z-503@ms.Kallback.com>
What is the release date for FII in Japan?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 02:16:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Borzilleri" <magellan@u.washington.edu>
To: Falling Into Mojoland <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Unknowns, Tigger, Corpses
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96a.970818015819.44252C-100000@dante23.u.washington.edu>
> From: Christophe Thomas <Christophe.Thomas@bull.net>
> Subject: YTSEJAM digest 2874
>
> Status Distribution Unknown , ::
>
> The message regarding "" sent on Unknown , :: was sent by
This post ^^^ was a little TOO inhuman. Kind of reminded me of something
from "Event Horizon." Oh yeah, for those who are considering seeing this
sci-fi/mystery/horror movie, it bore strong storytelling elements of
"2010," "Flatliners," and "Hellraiser," which makes for a very interesting
mixture of action if you liked those three movies.
And yes, I did jump out of my seat a couple times. :)
> Foreign Native Name CN=3DChristophe Thomas/OU=3DFR/O=3DBULL\n=
"Foreign Native?" You speak English, boy??
> Explanation Router : impossible d'ouvrir le fichier de bo=EEte aux
> lettres SBB-DRG/FR/BULL mail.box: a pile du protocole TCP/IP a signal
ENGLISH, MUTHAFUCKA, DOO YOUU SPEAK IT?!?!
---- > From: "Tigger" <tigger@pooh.corner> > Subject: Tiggers is a wonderful thing!Now THIS is how to have fun with anonymous mail. :)
> *Boing* *Boing* *Boing*
The combination of your reliance on the number three, conceptual palindromes, and the presence of the gaping area of blank lines at the bottom of your post is starting to sculpt your persona in ways which I imagine you'd like to avoid. But it also displays a sharp wit for delivering punchlines. Punish me as I deserve.
> It's a therrible thing tho be thtealin thamples from Thtevie. > Therrible, therrible! All tiggers hate, hate, hate Beck, and all > tiggers know!
AHA!! A lisp!! It's the Cable Guy!!
> Oh, my! And I wondered why Eeyore was limping this morning, Woo hoo!
You even spelled Eeyore right!
"Educated men are rare." --Drew Barrymore, "Wayne's World"
> He better be keeping track of us tiggers, too! Woo hoo! > > Tiggers is a wonderful thing, a wonderful thing is tiggers! Woo hoo! > > Tigger
Now recite the whole song and I'll be REALLY impressed. :)
---- > From: Brandon Elhai <belhai1@gl.umbc.edu> > Subject: Mike Bahr: the myth, the man, the legend > > The same day I get the CD, I get a a voice mail from Mike which says, > "hahaha...you never know what you're gonna get from Mike bahr. It could > be a CD, or it COULD be a dead body. Ha ha ha." I was really freaked out > by all this...
hahahahaha
> And then I woke up.
D'OH!!
> Fucked up isn't it? I think I'll go take my medication now. :)
You need medication to have those kinds of dreams?
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 07:08:42 -0500 (CDT) From: BillB67@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2876 (Weird Dreams) Message-ID: <19978187105626334@ix.netcom.com>
>Hey folks- > >Well, I thought I'd share a really weird dream that I had the other night.
Since we're sharing dreams...
I had a dream the other night that I got the chance to actually meet Mike Portnoy! Upon meeting him, I was so star-struck, that I accidentally blurted out "It's really a pleasure to meet you Mr. PORNTOY" (as he's often referred to here on the 'jam). At this point, he got really pissed, and proceeded to kick my ass in 13/8 time... then I woke up...
Tazzmann
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:37:29 -0400 From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE:Digital and Analog... Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-970818123729Z-112@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
Richard wrote...
> Someone mentioned that Digital recording is not favoured by some artists, >mentioning Joe Satriani (and I can add Yngwie Malmsteen, who said this in an >interview). Could a techie on this list please explain this, possibly in >layman >terms? In the end, both analog and digital recordings end up on a digital >medium, so what's the 'advantage' of recording analog? To me, it seems like >an >excuse to have a lower recording budget (not intended as flame bait).
Actually, at least from the studio's point of view, it is getting cheaper to be digital rather than analog. My attempt at non - technical explanation, with my own inaccuracies and lack of knowledge, of course:
There seem two reasoning paths for my personal dislike of digital source tape. The first is that it is "too perfect", i.e. that it doesn't compress and distort slightly like analog tape does. I'll buy this for vocals. (for the record, I think drums and keys sound fine recorded digital, and sometimes even bass.) for guitar, however, I like reason #2:
(please forgive and/or correct, as I am regurgitating this from a conversation with an engineer)
Most of the digital decks run at 16 - 20 bit resolution, giving them about 1/4 to 1/3 of the possible resolution of a piece of analog tape, running at standard speed (which escapes me at the moment). The standard conversion algorithms also seem to "discard" things that are "irrelevant", which I believe leaves out some sounds and frequencies not always thought of as musical.
/regurgitate
I think both of the above are, at least partially, true. I notice a distinct difference between 24, 20, and 16 bit analog to digital conversion, and I notice distinctly better sound when tube mic preamps are used to "warm up" a digital source - by distorting it slightly. Since my only problem with guitar done digitally is with distortion - clean guitar sounds fine to me - maybe the D/A's are just missing something? Distorted guitar is notoriously hard to record, compared to other instruments, and very sensitive to ANY condition change.
Best I can do - perhaps someone can do better?
BTW, the reason it makes a difference was explained a couple of 'jams ago, using a nice analogy with the number of display colors used in a graphic.
Mike >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:37:32 +0200 From: Pedro Filipe <f.miguel@mail.telepac.pt> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: QUESTION TIME Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970818113732.00669248@mail.telepac.pt>
>Well, there's like this unison in UAGM that starts at 3:59 >and it's basicly 2 mesures of 4/4 and 1 of 3/4. >Now my question for all of u smart guys is: > > Is it defined as 11/4 or as 2 x 4/4 + 3/4? > why is it defined that way (include an explanation with your > answer)
Don't these 2 sound the same? In the official scores it's written in 11/4 but in the MIDI files I've downloaded it's in 4/4 + 4/4 + 3/4. I think 2 x 4/4 + 3/4 is used because it's much more easy to count.
Please correct me if I'm making any mistake.
___ | Pedro Filipe ___ * | * ___ & | * | * | Francisco Miguel *| \ | / |* (FleXable) * | \ /|\ / | * * | \ / | \ / | * * | \ | / | * * * | / \ | / \ | * * | / \|/ \ | * "To: ytsejam@ax.com *| / | \ |* Subject: asdf _|_* | *_|_ Message: unsubscribe DT" * | * _|_ DREAM THEATER
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:24:29 -0500 From: bwrights@dnaent.com (Bill Wrightson) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Queensryche on AudioNet Message-ID: <199708181324.IAA11792@lotus.dnaent.com>
I was at the Dallas show that was broadcast live on Audionet and Geoff's voice wasn't nearly as bad as someone reported from listening to the audionet version of the show. He missed a few high notes and cut a few ones short but all in all his voice was in pretty good shape. None of the songs which have been dropped lately due to illness were dropped Saturday night.
*************************************************************************** ** Bill Wrightson email: bwrights@dnaent.com ** ** DNA Enterprises, INC. voice: (972) 671-1972 ext: 267 ** ** 1240 E. Campbell Road fax: (972) 671-1581 ** ** Richardson, Tx 75081 http://www.dnaent.com ** ***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:38:34 +0300 (EET DST) From: Raivo Hool <raitz@guvatrak.ee> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: frames per sec Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970818163655.24925A-100000@lahmaat.guvatrak.ee>
> Digital recording is just like that, opnly rather than the 60 (?) frames
25 in PAL and (ME)SECAM, 30 in NTSC.
Raitz
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:04:41 +0200 From: "NGA" <nga@software-ag.de> To: "The Ytsejam Crowd" <ytsejam@ax.com> Cc: <nga@software-ag.de> Subject: Bizarre thoughts... Message-ID: <9708181406.AA12959@server3.software-ag.de>
Hi all
I went to the Bizarre Festival here in Krautland at the weekend, and it was a very interesting if mixed experience. My award to most dissapointing group must go to Faith No More - even watching jelly set on a hot day is more interesting than what they played.
My personal favourite performances were all on Sunday, when Die Krupps, Paradise Lost and Rammstein played great sets. And the most entertaining performance (and I mean this seriously) was by Marilyn Manson - just as long as nobody believes what he does or says is real.
If anybody is interested in more detailed reviews, let me know (I'll even let you know how Bush and Silverchair were).
Before I go, let me just clear up one point: I wasn't trying to put Fates Warning down, nor was I knocking anybody who likes them. It's just that I got the feeling that sometimes the whole audience of a given show had written reviews. If you don't like my reviews (or the bands I review), fine.
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) Currently playing: Sadist - Tribe
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 20:34:49 -0400 From: rbrito@ime.usp.br (Rogerio Brito) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Dream Theater: A Commercial Success? Message-ID: <pck9zMlyZ8pT092yn@ime.usp.br>
WhiteWolf <prelude@autobahn.mb.ca> wrote: >> I don't think it did. If I remember correctly, I&W indeed sold >> something like 500,000 units, but Awake stopped selling at 200,000 (in >> the US, that is. Worldwide sales will be higher, of course.) >> > Well, let's change that. Every DT fan go out on Sept. 23rd and buy >multiple copies of the new album and make it go platinum! While I know >this isn't possible for everyone, it's nice to dream, isn't it?
Well, I don't know if Awake was platinum in the USA, but if you have the Japan PPV video, you know that Awake was platinum in Japan, since the members were receiving the discs right before the show.
> Perhaps, if Falling Into Infinity goes platinum, the general populous >will sit up and take notice that virtuosos have a place in radio and >mainstream once more.
While it would be nice to buy a lot of copies to hear on the car, at home etc., you must remember that a lot part of the price you are paying isn't going to the artists, but to the shop which is selling you the CD, to the big bad labels etc. with only a little going to those that really deserve the biggest part of the money.
> I think it's cool that Fate's Warning have been playing demos of the >new DT disc between sets on their European tour...kinda gives DT >advanced exposure over there.
I think that it would be a very nice thing if DT played Fates Warning songs. Fates has been playing for small crowds, charging very little for each admission and it is very sad to see such things happening with talented artists, while many commercial quartets or quintets are swimming on money. :-(
>Laterness...
[]s being very sad, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 2877 **************************
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