YTSEJAM Digest 2889
Today's Topics:
1) Re: prog songs for girls who don't know prog.
by Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
2) RE: Seven strings and APSoG...
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil>
3) Spock's Beard and Metal
by Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk>
4) Ibanez
by "woot" <woot@crypted.com>
5) Re: Songs for GF's/Ibanez Universe
by eckie@asu.edu
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 2880
by CGH74@aol.com
7) Prog Or Die update
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@KR.FH-Niederrhein.DE>
8) Re: Songs for GF's/Ibanez Universe
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
9) Re: Ibanez Universe
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
10) Re: Unclassified: Re: another question regarding the universe
by "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
11) Subscribe
by Leonard Berkoski III <lberkoski@hst.nasa.gov>
12) wait for prog-dye vest
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
13) Fates Warning (Listen up, Vinnie!)
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
14) asdf
by "Thiago J. Z. Martins" <tzuaneti@uninet.com.br>
15) Fates Warning Continued
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:21:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Chew <schew@tis.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: prog songs for girls who don't know prog.
Message-ID: <199708211521.LAA09341@clipper.hq.tis.com>
>
>I'd suggest "Space Dye Vest", too, at least the intro.
>
Yes, I'd agree on suggesting "Space Dye Vest" -- I know some
non-proggers who like that song. I'd also suggest a few Jethro Tull
songs, such as "Jack-a-Lynn", "Wondering Aloud", or other acoustic
type songs by them. I also think Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood"
would be a good starting place since it has some great melodies and
isn't too heavy or harsh.
>
>Try "21st Century Schizoid Man" from the first King Crimson album. If she
>doesn't run away, you may be able to make some headway. Musically, that is. :)
>
About 7 years ago, I knew this woman I had just met was very
special when she played Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood" for me
followed by Pink Floyd's "Animals". And! She enjoyed it when I played
Jethro Tull's "Aqualung" (the whole album) and even King Crimson's
"Indiscipline" and "21st Century Schizoid Man". :-)
And the best part is, everything else about her is just as
wonderful! Which is why I married her. :-)
Steve
-- Steve Chew - schew@tis.com - http://www.clark.net/pub/iz/home.html "Men go abroad to wonder at the height of mountains, at the huge waves of the sea, at the long courses of the rivers, at the vast compass of the ocean, at the circular motion of the stars; and they pass by themselves without wondering." -- Saint Augustine------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:28:20 -0400 From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.Belvoir.Army.Mil> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: Seven strings and APSoG... Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-970821152820Z-610@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
Vince wrote and quoth..
>>>Um..for you guys who own ibanez universes or rg's 7 string... >>>how do you buy strings for it???? ...like..I need to know all of >>>this..im planning on buying a Universe >> >> I don't know how is this Universe your talking (if it's the >> one I think it's all black, including pickups), but I heard >> Ibanez was working on a new 7string guitar. If I were you, >> I would wait to check it out. > > They're already out. Sounds decent, but the only feature I really like is >that Lo-Pro trem :) Other than that and the seventh string, it's just a >standard guitar. Nothin' fancy. Seymour Duncan needs to make 7-string >trembuckers :)
Actually, they will - you just have to custom order them. I hope you don't mean the original Trembucker, though. Yeuk :( Right up there with the Lo - Pro... :) KillMary wrote...
>Dori Tritt said: >> To the guy who saw the Ibanez Universe for $1500. Don't get it!!! Get the >>Ibanez RG 7-String. I saw it in a store by me for $899 AND it looks nicer >>too. > >IMO the Universe has a better sound. And IMO also, a better sound is where >it's at :-)
The pickups are better, and the Universe is made out of better wood. Having seen (and played) the RG - 7, I would NEVER buy one - it makes an EX series look like it's well made. It seemed more like a $400 guitar than a $900 one.
Needless to say, I was not impressed. :)
Of course, I still haven't mastered six strings yet... :) >
Mike(You, not me!) wrote...
> >Over the years, I've never really had anything good to say about Fates on >this list. I never understood all the praise heaped on them. The only >Fates I ever bought was Parallels, which most Fates fans consider a pretty >good album. I never, through countless attempts, got above a STRONG >dislike for it. Sold it. Bye bye.
I've never understood everyone's love of this CD - I like it, but I think at least four of the other Fates releases are miles better. Symmetry, Guardian, Exit, and APSoG are all much better albums, IMNSHO. In fact, I was horribly disappointed with Parallels as a follow - up to Symmetry, and refused to listen to it AT ALL for six months. > >If anything, the last week or so has taught me to believe in redemption. >APSoG is outstanding. Like all of you didn't already know. I am no fan of >Ray's drawn out phrasing, but here it's not as obvious and when he does >meander through the lyrics, it seems to fit the music a lot better then I >remember. I always thought people were screwed when they said how great >Mark Zonder is, but like I'm gonna argue after listening to this? No way. >Guitars were great - I used to think they had two guitarists because they >needed them. Yeah, right. And the lyrics, which I HATED on Parallels, >were never less than good here and sometimes they were great, which most >albums can't even come close to. Kevin was not as much of a force as I >expected him to be, but hey, it's not his band, and his playing was still >great. Oh, and Joey Vera and that fretless bass. He actually had the good >taste not to overdo it, something that most fretless players can't seem to >grasp. O.K. I'm done.
I like this CD a lot more after seeing it done live, as well. My opinion of this has changed considerably since it's release - initially I liked it, but wasn't blown away or anything. I now find myself listening to it almost daily. > >If you're a bonehead like me and thought you were better off without this >album, think again.
If you're a bonehead that don't think seeing them live would be worth it, either, think again. :) >
Mike
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:26:47 +0100 (BST) From: Graham Borland <gborland@apsoft.co.uk> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Spock's Beard and Metal Message-ID: <Marcel-1.26-0821152647-0b0rZWN@mor.apsoft.co.uk>
> From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net> > Subject: Marillion and my new cds > > As far as Spock's Beard goes [snip] I love every song except for the last > one, at over 16 minutes it loses me sometimes
That song, Time Has Come, is now my 2nd-favourite on the album (behind The Doorway, of course). It's like Learning to Live . . . it can take a while to get used to, but if you give it a chance it will quickly become wonderful.
> From: "NGA" <nga@software-ag.de>
This isn't your usual header. . . is this a fake mail?
Anyway . . .
> Subject: Acoustic songs for girlies > > Here's my contribution to the how-can-I-turn-my-girlfriend-onto- > metal-and-get-into-her-panties thread: [snip] I've done two compilations > for my car
Why on earth are you trying to turn your car onto metal? I would've thought it would be quite fond of the stuff already.
Graham
-- Graham Borland Email : gborland@apsoft.co.uk WWW : http://www.apsoft.co.uk Alternative Publishing Ltd Tel : 0141 418 0881 30 Clyde Place, Glasgow G5 8AQ Fax : 0141 418 0889
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:58:08 -0600 From: "woot" <woot@crypted.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Ibanez Message-ID: <199708211558.JAA08190@mailmx.micron.net>
>>Pedro (now wondering how to pronounce IBANEZ)
>EYE - BUN - EZ(like PEZ)
that's how i pronounce it too, but it is actually supposed to be pronounced:
EE - BON - YES with the stress on the middle syllable.
woot
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Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 22:19:08 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Songs for GF's/Ibanez Universe Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970820221529.8984A-100000@general5.asu.edu>
> To the guy who saw the Ibanez Universe for $1500. Don't get it!!! Get the > Ibanez RG 7-String. I saw it in a store by me for $899 AND it looks nicer > too.
Yeah, it looks nicer...but does it sound/play better? I think it's the same guitar w/o the nicer pickups and the ugly green pickguard. 7-string Lo-Pro trems are definitely fun to play with.
Getting girlfriends into prog, eh? Well...Type O Negative may not be considered prog in some eyes, but if you can get them to like "My Girlfriend's Girlfriend," I'll tip my hat to ya!
~Christian Eckie
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:04:10 -0400 (EDT) From: CGH74@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 2880 Message-ID: <970821120145_1091996664@emout05.mail.aol.com>
please stop mailing me this stuff!!!
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:09:36 -0700 From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@KR.FH-Niederrhein.DE> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Prog Or Die update Message-ID: <33FCE6D0.70DD@kr.fh-niederrhein.de>
Hi
I've just update my Page (Shadow Gallery & Fates Warning news section).
You can find out the tracklisting from the fortcoming SHADOW GALLERY Album
"TYRRANY". Check it out.
-------------------- BTW, my top 10 albums of the week :
1)Royal Hunt - Paradox 2)Dream Theater - A Change Of Seasons 3)Genesis - The Way We Walk II 4)John Norum - Another Destination 5)Dream Theater - Awake 6)Shadow Gallery - Carved In Stone 7)Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene 7-13 8)Savatage - From The Gutter To The Stage 9)Yngwie Malmsteen - Trial By Fire 10)Megadeth - Cryptic Writings
ARASH -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://lionel.kr.fh-niederrhein.de/~ashouria/index.htm | | | | by Arash Ashouriha | | | | ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:23:50 -0400 From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Songs for GF's/Ibanez Universe Message-ID: <33FC6B96.47A84A32@caribe.net>
eckie@asu.edu wrote:
> > To the guy who saw the Ibanez Universe for $1500. Don't get it!!! > Get the > > Ibanez RG 7-String. I saw it in a store by me for $899 AND it looks > nicer > > too. > > Yeah, it looks nicer...but does it sound/play better? I think it's > the > same guitar w/o the nicer pickups and the ugly green pickguard. > 7-string > Lo-Pro trems are definitely fun to play with. > >
the one i saw.. was the black/black with the dimarzio pickups... the other new one..is the rg 7 string..which is a cheaper version...it might look nicer..but the pickups and other things are cheaper
--
"At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com mailto:progboy@mindless.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ):1254229
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:25:23 -0400 From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Ibanez Universe Message-ID: <33FC6BF2.5C56BB55@caribe.net>
Christian Albert Schulze a.k.a. KillMary wrote:
> Dori Tritt said: > > To the guy who saw the Ibanez Universe for $1500. Don't get it!!! > Get the > >Ibanez RG 7-String. I saw it in a store by me for $899 AND it looks > nicer > >too. > > IMO the Universe has a better sound. And IMO also, a better sound is > where > it's at :-)
thats right.. the RG7 string is an affordable version of a 7 strin guitar...hence the pickups are cheaper.. and i dont know about other features..
--
"At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com mailto:progboy@mindless.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ):1254229
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:27:14 -0400 From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Unclassified: Re: another question regarding the universe Message-ID: <33FC6C62.54F57D1C@caribe.net>
Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au wrote:
> calfaro@caribe.net on 21/08/97 08:31:21 AM > > Please respond to ytsejam@ax.com > > To: ytsejam@ax.com > cc: (bcc: Graham Boyle/NRC/HMAS WATSON/NAVY/AU) > Subject: another question regarding the universe > > > > Is this a trick question or a wind up ? > Where do you reckon ? How about a music store, you walk in ask for a > set of > strings > and over the money, get your change, walk out of the store, > then when you get home you can put the new strings on you guitar. > Really it's that simple my friend.
eh..yeah..id like to find a store that sells guitar string packs with 7 strings on each one.. starting from 09 to 52 or 56
--
"At the edge of chaos, unexpected outcomes occur. The risk to survival is severe." Ian Malcolm http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytsekurt@geocities.com mailto:progboy@mindless.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ):1254229
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 01:02:58 -0500 From: Leonard Berkoski III <lberkoski@hst.nasa.gov> To: ytsejam@anthor.arastar.com Subject: Subscribe Message-ID: <v03007800b0218a73d7aa@[198.118.117.114]>
Subscribe
********************************************************************************
Leonard Berkoski III Allied Signal, Scientific Instruments System Engineer Hubble Space Telescope Project
Work Number: (301) 286-6949 Fax Number: (301) 286-1726
********************************************************************************
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:56:49 -0700 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: wait for prog-dye vest Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970821105639.006f2378@cats.ucsc.edu>
>They are NOT prog songs, but >they are played by prog. bands. Hmm... SDV may be prog. but then again that >depends on one's definition of prog.
I'm wondering what youre definition of prog is, that includes SDV but not WFS. In terms of (oh god, here he goes again) meter, WFS is a much more complicated song, and The lyrics are much more typical prog fare than SDV.
In my view, SDV falls under the "not a prog song, but by a prog band" area -- it's a Kev solo song. WFS is a proggy piano-synth piece.
__ /\ __ Chris Oates: aspect@cats.ucsc.edu __\/__\/__ +---- \_||_/ | This space under construction. | /__||__\ | Looking for something new to say here ... | // \ | \\ ----+ \| http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:09:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fates Warning (Listen up, Vinnie!) Message-ID: <199708211809.NAA18010@enteract.com>
In light of Vince's pretty much "right on" Fates Warning thesis, I'd like to offer a counterpoint, and some food for thought for those of you who are considering buying Fates Warning music.
Fates Warning started as a mildly progressive 80's metal band, very much like Iron Maiden, with twin guitars and harmonies. Slightly heavier and less polished... perhaps more akin to Judas Priest. They employed some bizarre and intriguing vocal melodies and styles, and often employed lyrics about fantasy situations, superstitions, and historical events. This was very popular among metal fans, and slowly they built a cult following. They were not really very progressive at the time, but by their third album (Awaken the Guardian, John Arch's finest vocal work, IMO, and MUCH better than any of that silly stuff with him supposedly auditioning for DT) it was evident that their sound was changing.
Those first three albums (Night on Brocken, The Spectre Within, and Awaken the Guardian) showed a progression from a basic heavy metal sound to a more advanced sound, but the sound was still rough. I wouldn't recommend these albums until you hear the later releases.
The band went through some changes in sound and direction in preparation for their next album. John Arch was replaced with an untrained kid vocalist named Ray Alder, who got the gig by sending in a demo of his signing over their songs. The band was impressed. They went to work on a new and very progressive album, No Exit. Featuring several shorter progressive metal songs with a hard edge (a cross between Metallica and Queensryche at times) and the epic Ivory Gate of Dreams, this album is the basis on which many bands have built their sound. I am sure that it played some influence on Dream Theater.
They followed the album up with many peoples' favorite Fates album, _Perfect Symmetry_, which is about as progressive as you can get, without a metropolis middle section. Some people say it sounds like they were trying too hard... that's something I can not understand... it all sounds ideal to me. The song At Fates Hands features some nifty keyboard work (Kevin Moore, I believe played all of the keys on this song. I'm not positive on that, but on a later all instrumental release called "At Fates Fingers, I am SURE it was Kevin Moore, and the parts sound very similar) and a winding intrumental section (much more dark and melodic than a Metropolis). This album must be heard to be believed... but I wouldn't recommend it as a first listen.
The next two albums are more streamlined progressive metal, with a commercial feel. That doesn't mean that they're sell out sounding, it just means that they use a lot of catchy sounding melodies, and a lot of vocal harmonies. The albums, _Parallels_ and _Inside Out_, are definitely those I would recommend as the first albums to buy from Fates Warning. If you don't like either of these, there's not much more you can do. You are just not a Fates Warning fan, in all likelihood (this excludes people who liked Fates up to this point, but hate everything after... people who I think are deranged...). _Parallels_ features the title track of the album, which just friggin' RIPS, and _Inside Out_ has one of my favorite Fates songs ever, Monument.
Next came _Chasing Time_, which is pretty much a "best of". I don't think they chose all of the best songs, but a lot of em are there. If you are willing to give the band a fair shot, this could be the ideal starting album, since it features music from all of their periods. If you like the way one song sounds, go buy the album that song appeared on. Chances are, you'll like the whole album. If you don't like John Arch's voice skip those songs. If you can't appreciate Ray Alder's voice, then skip Fates Warning (please don't post to tell everyone that Ray Alder can't sing, because I'll probably over react, and go off on my "Ray Alder is THE BEST VOCALIST IN THE WORLD" tangent).
Finally, and most recently, they released the 50+ minute epic song, APSoG (A Pleasant Shade of Gray). This is among the best albums ever made, in my heavily biased (I love you too, Mike) opinion. The song is meant to be heard all the way through, and is meant to be experienced (meaning, don't listen to it unless you have time to listen to it, and are willing to LISTEN to it... don't skip through looking for solos or speed metal parts, etc...)
I will continue in my next message
--
Chris Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C -- (773) 248 8511 http://www.enteract.com (business) http://www.prognosis.com/madsman/ (my contribution to --------------------------------- the vast wealth of "To err is human... to suck out | underdeveloped one's brain with an orally | web sites) deployed flesh tube is not."-MS| **************** ---------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:09:26 -0300 From: "Thiago J. Z. Martins" <tzuaneti@uninet.com.br> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: asdf Message-ID: <199708211817.PAA26694@panther.unisys.com.br>
Esta é uma mensagem de múltiplas partes em formato MIME.
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:26:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Fates Warning Continued Message-ID: <199708211826.NAA20888@enteract.com>
Some people have said that Fates Warning is boring. This may be the case for those people, but you have to take some things into account. If boring means "There's no Paul Gilbert speed solos" then yes, the music is boring. Frank Aresti and Jim Matheos are no slouches when it comes to soloing, and there's some extremely technical stuff there, but they're in it to create the right sound for the song, not to impress you with how fast they can play. You can't get a whole lot more technical than their rhythms or Mark Zonder's drumming, so don't think for a second that there isn't a lot of complexity going on.
Also, it has seemed to me that the majority of people who say Fates is "boring" are into METAL. Not Progressive. Maybe Progressive METAL, but not Progressive. These people are looking for the rip your balls off guitars and drums that Metallica, Pantera, and Megadeth used to provide. There's nothing wrong with that, but if your tastes end there, then skip Fates Warning. They're wrong for you. If that sounds like you, and you want some prog in your metal, check out Angra and Symphony X. You won't be disappointed.
I've also heard the argument that Ray Alder seems to just sing in no direction... like he's hitting pitches, but not following a melody. That is a mistake in listening. Some of the vocal melodies are extremely complex, and may weave around before they repeat, but they DO repeat. If you don't like the melody that they become, then that's fine, but there is no mistaking that there is a lot of melody there. I think Ray's got about the best voice in all of progressive metal music. He has the range of a young Geoff Tate, the stage presence of Bruce Dickenson meets Rob Lowe (that's his real name) from Solitude Aeturnus, and an incredible and unique style. Feel free to disagree.
Lastly, I need to reitterate for those of you who are considering buying APSoG and aren't too familiar with Fates: the album is meant to be heard as one piece. There are parts of the song that will sound completely pointless and out of place if not considered in the context of the whole musical picture. There are parts of the song that will put you to sleep if you listen without thinking about the music. And there are parts that will rip you in half!
Take care, and please, DISCUSS!
--
Chris Ptacek at EnterAct, L.L.C -- (773) 248 8511 http://www.enteract.com (business) http://www.prognosis.com/madsman/ (my contribution to --------------------------------- the vast wealth of "To err is human... to suck out | underdeveloped one's brain with an orally | web sites) deployed flesh tube is not."-MS| **************** ---------------------------------
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 2889 **************************
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