YTSEJAM Digest 3317
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3311
by Chris Groves <cdgroves@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
2) Re: Guitars....
by CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
3) Re: prog cliches
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
4) Re: UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: YTSEJAM digest 3310
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
5) Re: WDaDU :One Way (and other ramblings)
by AEllis1222@aol.com
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3312
by Einstein H Zappa <afn39111@afn.org>
7) Tampa, FL show
by Bobby Tufino <slime64@ibm.net>
8) Prog cliches ... concept albums
by Einstein H Zappa <afn39111@afn.org>
9) RE: YTSEJAM digest 3314
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
10) Re: Thanksgiving myth
by Anna & Heike Boedeker <boedeker@netcologne.de>
11) Re: Guitars....
by Anna & Heike Boedeker <boedeker@netcologne.de>
12) QUEENSRYCHE & SILENT MAN CD SINGLE (EUROPE)
by Steve.Arthur@Thameswater.CO.UK
13) Various replies
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
14) re: X-giving
by Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
15) RE: DT Tape for Wazoodust@aol.com
by AL <al@isd.net>
16) Surfage
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 17:06:02 +1000
From: Chris Groves <cdgroves@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3311
Message-ID: <l03020902b0ac05e3fa52@[131.217.133.76]>
>Last night I saw a song from Faith no More on that 12 angry viewers
>show (yes I watch it sometimes....it is one of the few places you can
>hear new music), anyways, they played a song from FNM with the word
>Ashes in the title. I was wondering if anyone has the "Album of the
>year", and what they thought of it. I really liked the song, and to
>interest me more, all of the morons on the show hated it.
Well, being a loyal Faith No More fan, I guess I have to answer this.
'Album Of The Year', to me, is GREAT.
Ask any Faith No More fan, and more than likely all they'll tell you is
"it's not _Angel Dust_". Fine, but as an album on its own merits, it's
fucking fantastic. If you liked 'Ashes To Ashes', chances are, you'll like
the rest of the album heaps, too, although 'Ashes To Ashes' is fairly slow
and (not the right word, but.....) 'moodier' than the rest of the CD for
the most part. AOTY is also a bit short for my liking (only around 45
minutes), and has a couple of bum songs (the most obvious being 'Home Sick
Home'), but it still kicks ass, and 'Stripsearch' has to be one of the best
songs released this year. It's the new single in Europe/Australasia, so
maybe the USA will get it eventually.
ANYWAY, buy AOTY, if you thought Ashes To Ashes was great, more than likely
you will like the rest of the CD.
Seeya!
Chris Groves.
cdgroves@postoffice.sandybay.utas.edu.au
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 01:14:04 -0500 (EST)
From: CLARK ABEL <99ABEL@alma.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Guitars....
Message-ID: <01IQRA4Y7ZUA8WXGKH@alma.edu>
Here's my quick thoughts on the guy who's looking to buy a guitar.
As far as the acoustic vs. electric question goes:
I honestly don't think there's any advantage to starting out on
acoustic, unless that's what you want to play. I think the reasoning behind
this is that since acoustics have heavier strings and generally higher
action (the height of the strings from the fretboard), you will supposedly
build up more finger strength this way. And in a sense it's true, an
electric is "easier" to play. But if you're not interested in much
accoustic guitar music, don't waste your money on an accoustic guitar. If
you practice the right things and you practice properly, it doesn't matter
which you learn on. If you want to become a good electric guitar, play an
electric guitar. If, later on, you decide you want to play accoustic, it's
not that damn hard to pick that up and learn it. It's not like if you learn
on electric first, you're doomed to never be able to play an accoustic.
Buy what you want to play.
Oh, and yes, you have more versatility in terms of different sounds
with an electric, but no, you definitely can't get it to sound like an
accoustic, especially not if you're just buying a relatively cheap guitar
and especially a relatively cheap amp. You can play the accoustic stuff on
the clean channel of your amp, and it will sound OK, but not really all that
much like an accoustic.
As far as brands and prices... well, the best thing you can do is to
take someone who knows about guitars with you. And I think you might want to
try someone other than the friend who told you to start on accoustic. Of
course I don't know, but he doesn't sound too open-minded. Every guitar is
different, even the exact same model by the exact same company varies from
one unit to the next... it's a tree, after all. So the point is, you can
find a really great sounding guitar for pretty cheap if you look hard enough
and if you get lucky. Buying a used guitar can be a good option, too, buy
but you definitel want to have someone who knows what they're doing so you
don't buy a used guitar with problems. A damaged neck or other structural
problems can be hard to spot at first, but make the guitar useless later.
I could also give you my spiel about not buying some cheaply make,
over-priced "vintage" guitar, but I'm trying to be objective here. :)
-Clark
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 23:21:07 -0700
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: prog cliches
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971203232105.006a448c@postoffice.syspac.com>
At 09:59 PM 12/3/97 -0800, Rob wrote:
>
>Can anyone say black clothes?
heheh, no,, that's a METAL cliche :) A few friends of mine and I have
come up with a theory for this. First off, black makes you look like a
badass, and hey, it hides the beer and blood stains :)
.
.-/ \
_.-~ / \___ ______ __ _
\ / -~|| __||_ __// || |
/ . . || __| | |\ / ' || |__
/ / ~| ||____| |_| /_/|_||____|
/ / |-~\ \ \ \ | || || |
/ /__ / \ \____\|\_\|_/|_||____| WILL NEVER DIE.
/ .-~\ \-~
/.-~ \
/~ .-
\ .-~ ~Vince
\.-~
If you don't like it, it won't hurt my feelings. :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 22:38:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: UNCLASSIFIED:-Re: YTSEJAM digest 3310
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971203223733.28627A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 Graham.Boyle.149036@navy.gov.au wrote:
>The word 'please & thank you' go a long way on this list :)
They must be still going a long way from the last time they were used --
this is the first time I've seen either since I joined ^_^
>
>ytsejam-request@ax.com
>asdf
>
>unsubscribe ytsejam <your name>
>
>try to have a nice day with the ytsejam :)
>
>graham
>
>
>
--Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:44:05 -0500 (EST)
From: AEllis1222@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: WDaDU :One Way (and other ramblings)
Message-ID: <971204014404_-938711143@mrin51.mail.aol.com>
I originally had the "One Way" release of the disc, and then one day I ran
across a French import of WDaDU disc, on Mechanic Records, used, for 6 bucks!
So what the hell right? The packaging is worth the money, and I get to see
the perms, and Charile's dumb-ass smile, up close! :-) As for sound
quality, the only difference I hear between the 2 is that the Mechanic
version seems to be slightly louder. They really oughta standardize the
volume at which a CD is mastered, because I hate when you have the CD player
on "Random" and the volume drops drastically from CD to CD.
See ya at the Roxy! (BTW, any pre show gatherings?)
Art
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:08:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Einstein H Zappa <afn39111@afn.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3312
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.971204020451.28778A-100000@freenet2.afn.org>
> >note and at the same time hum the 10th through the instrument (the 3rd up an
> >octave), the combination will produce the 5th in addition. One wind
> >instrument player playing a major chord. Fun to do. It's worked for me on
> >trombone and flute.
> That's intriguing. Does it work for woodwinds? I don't suppose if you
The flute isn't a brass instrument. As long as you can hum at the same time
you're blowing, it should work.
> flat the 3rd (or 10th in this case) you could still get the fifth,
> producing the minor chord? Now that would be cool.
Nope, sorry. It's a very specific wave interference-thing.
[ There has only been one thing in my life worth living for,
[ So it would take a true genius to fuck it up.
[ Call me Einstein Hawkings Tolkien Heraclitus Darwin PKD Zappa.
[ (http://www.afn.org/~afn39111)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 02:13:16 -0500
From: Bobby Tufino <slime64@ibm.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Tampa, FL show
Message-ID: <3486580B.36DEE7C8@ibm.net>
Jammers:
Maybe this has been posted, I don't know, but just in case: The Dec.
17th Tampa, FL show is NOT at the Ritz. It is at a place called the
Masquerade (yes, I am positive), and is located in downtown Ybor City
which I guess is part of Tampa. They are on sale at TicketBastard, and
I am told they are giving away a signed guitar at the show. Laters,
all...
Bobby (dripping with the ooze and slime of the heaving earth...)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 02:55:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Einstein H Zappa <afn39111@afn.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Prog cliches ... concept albums
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.971204024649.17394A-100000@freenet2.afn.org>
Indeed you are right, person who thinks QR's O:M and Marillion's Brave and
Misplaced Childhood are the best concept albums out there. In fact, I put
O:M and MC on my top 5 albums ever list.
But then I have a hard time coming up with a concept album that I don't
like a WHOLE LOT, if I like the music. Maybe Genesis's Lamb Lies Down, just
because Gabriel was a VERY WEIRD guy back then. But APSOG, pure magic.
Saga's _Generation 13,_ very good and pretty consistent. Tales from
Topographic Oceans ... a lot of people don't like this album, but I love it.
Joe's Garage ... iffy, but still a classic. I think every concept album I
own is a significant step above most of the rest of my collection.
In summary: concept albums, don't slag em.
[ There has only been one thing in my life worth living for,
[ So it would take a true genius to fuck it up.
[ Call me Einstein Hawkings Tolkien Heraclitus Darwin PKD Zappa.
[ (http://www.afn.org/~afn39111)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 01:03:10 -0800
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 3314
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=kbhq%l=KBHQ-971204090310Z-17230@ms.Kallback.com>
>From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
>Subject: One more way Bahr could be a hero
>He could send me my King's X cd, for one. I sent him
>private e-mail, and received no answer. I guess he was
>too busy saving the world ;-0
--------------------------------------------------
Kev,
Welcome to the boat. Grab a paddle.
Trevor
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 11:43:34 +0100
From: Anna & Heike Boedeker <boedeker@netcologne.de>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Thanksgiving myth
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971204114334.007a5210@mail.netcologne.de>
.. Brian Hayden ...
>Let's state the facts here. The English, unlike the Spanish, Portugese,
etc.,
>didn't just come over here and start slaughtering people. They coexisted
with
>Native Americans for a time. They eventually became caught in the middle of
>various inter-tribal wars and suffered greatly at the hands of various
tribes,
>which spawned the tragic "Indian policies" of the British, and later the
>American, government.
Well, not quite... in the 16th century it still "only" was about fur-trade,
which, however, lead to conflicts between what you call "tribes" b/c now
some tried to expand their hunting-grounds... also traders introduced
diseases... Trade also corrupted traditional social structures like the
division of labour between genders as men more and more specialized on
hunting "fur animals" and trade.
Sure, you can follow the strategy of "blaming the victim" here, as it
indeed were "inter-tribal wars", but w/out traders having tried to exploit
them as fur-hunters this probably never had happened. You also should be
aware of the fact that some "tribes" refused to participate in fur-trading,
but these were defamed as especially cruel since they killed intruders who
"only" were after "fur animals", when in fact they only had learned their
bitter lesson...
In the 17th century fur-trade moved westward and on the coast (New England
and around Chesapeake Bay) traders were replaced by colonists. Whereas
traders had an interest in a peaceful coexistance (problematic as this had
been anyway, see above) w/ Natives, settlers wanted to *buy* land from them
-- an idea which was simply way too strange to them. What they did was
offer them land *temporarily* as was common practise amongst themselves.
The colonists misunderstood this profoundly and felt betrayed themselves
which led to conflicts and finally waging war against Natives.
But again, would you call this just a tragic misunderstanding??
Understanding is not a one-way-street... if it's asymmetrical like this
it's simply overpowering... instead it requires mutual efforts... up to the
day...
Kianniayi,
Heike (sorry for the NDTC but I think we should get this straight)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 10:15:27 +0100
From: Anna & Heike Boedeker <boedeker@netcologne.de>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Guitars....
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971204101527.007ab160@mail.netcologne.de>
.. Mohamed Gaffoor ...
>some other insturments like piano and sax. Anyway, my friend insists
>that to really learn to play well I should first learn on an acoustic.
>However, he says that it's easier to learn on an electric and that while
>that option is tempting it's better to start with the acoustic. Another
>friend of mine just bought an electric and is learning and says that
>you're much better off with the electric since you can always make the
>electric have and acoustic sound so the electric is more versatile. So
Yeah, you can use additional piezo PUs mounted into the bridge resp.
saddles (I've not yet found a convincing solution to do this w/ a Floyd
Rose, though)... but this is more an "acoustic-electric" genre of its own,
and real nice "hybrid" guitars like Parker or Godin are not for everyone
(though I for one like them). But nothing of all this feels like a "real"
acoustic.
>lemme ask you guys, which is better to first learn on, electric or
Ha ha... this is more of an ideological debate... 20 years ago everyone
recommended to start w/ an acoustic b/c they themselves had done so... What
in fact happened was that a bunch of guys bought cheap acoustics, typical
beginners' guitars, which they only wanted to get rid of after a few weeks
only to buy something they really liked like back then over here mostly
something like an Ibanez Silver Series Strat (Fenders mostly were crappy
and unaffordable back then), Ibanez Musician or even a Guild... These days
consequently more guys recommend starting w/an electric... except they are
into projective "self"-punishment in which case they will "advice" "you" to
start w/ a Classical guitar :-)
The thing simply is if *you* *want* to play electric, then get an electric,
if you want an acoustic, then get an acoustic, if you want to have both,
then do get both...
>acoustic? Also, what is a good price to play for a new guitar (either
>electric or acoustic) for a beginner. Also, what's a good brand of guitar
>(either electric or acoustic) to learn on?
You're living in the US, right? Unlike the situation in Europe many shops
carry quite a bunch of 2nd hand guitars (and amps, too) not only for
vintage freaks, so that you can walk out the store w/something really good
and still have something to eat for the rest of the month. It more depends
on which kind of guitar you'd like to have then, but e.g. Gibson SGs and
80s style metal axes (beefed-up Strat w/high-output humbuckers and a Floyd
Rose or equivalently good Whammy, no matter whether Ibanez, Hamer, ESP,
Charvel/Jackson, yada) are more than just common... 'acourse here are
different philosophies at work, too, some people will advice you to invest
not too much for *beginners* stuff, but if you already have managed to
learn to play other instruments I'd be more confident, and besides also to
a beginner it's more fun to have something one really enjoys instead of
looking forward to the day one will resell it... Just check out quite a
bunch of stuff and don't be shy to bother the guys at the shop b/c after
all it's their job, and they want to sell it! You will quickly be able to
determine what you get for which amount of money, like getting a feeling
when you check out one for $400 and one for $700 the latter somehow might
be better (or not...) but in the end you don't feel like it justified the
extra expense.
Have fun!!
Heike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 10:56:44 +0000
From: Steve.Arthur@Thameswater.CO.UK
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: QUEENSRYCHE & SILENT MAN CD SINGLE (EUROPE)
Message-ID: <80256563.003B6256.00@ThamesWater.Co.Uk>
Hey,
Thanks to those who responded to my queries about Savatage and TSO, I
didn't get any feedback on Fates Warning, their style and total absence
from CD racks in british shops. ARE THEY WORTH SEEKING OUT??
Also I'm intrigued by some of the responses about Q'ryche and especially
Promised Land.
Now I've been a QR fan for nearly 10 years but felt let down by Promised
Land after Empire (Another Rainy Night Without You .............YEAH).
Sure Promised Land showed some neat moves like Disconnected, title track
and Damaged but tracks like Lady Jane and My Global Mind were real
anti-climaxes.
However I will admit that HitNF could be a couple of tracks shorter
(Anytime/Anywhere...Hit the Black)
This is purely a fan's constructive criticism which I hope will see some
structured and considered replies. Remember I love this band and DT so I
must have most of my marbles..............
PS Is the Silent Man CD single a rarity in UK or Europe in general...I've
just ordered it from Virgin
I tried to order a bulk supply of Lie Singles after the great response to
the sale of my one copy...but I'm still awaiting to hear from various
outlets...........
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 06:19:59 -0500
From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Various replies
Message-ID: <v01530505b0ac3815b453@[209.50.100.121]>
>> If they re-released it, would it also have the copyright year of
>> its re-release? The copyright on it says 1989, if I'm not
>> mistaken............
That's how copyrights work - the year it was written / recorded.
>>Prog-metal cliches is a thread I've wanted to start for a while.
How 'bout rhyming pain with rain? <he he>
>>Here... I'm gonna piss some Savatage fans off: I loved Tage for a
>>long time... then HoR came out, and after listening to the album
>>several times, I've decided that "Taunting Cobras" is such a bad
>>song, that it's actually caused me to like all of music less.
Doesn't piss me off. I love the music of Savatage, and I just choose to
skip that song cause I don't like it either. Even though I wonder what the
hell they were thinking when they wrote that song, I don't think any less
of their others. Matter of fact, I had bought the single and missed out on
the next two albums for two years because of it.
>>Anyway, my friend insists
>> that to really learn to play well I should first learn on an acoustic.
>> says that you're much better off with the electric since you can always
>>make the
>>electric have and acoustic sound
Sound doesn't have anything to do with learning to play (in the beginning).
That comes later. I learned on acoustic, which is good cause the strings
are tighter and much harder to press down, which builds calises faster and
gets you some good practice, and makes going to an electric a piece of
cake. The problem I have with the electric though is that the strings are
too close together.
I say get a used acoustic for $50 and learn all your chords and scales
really good and then go electric if you then want to. But I draw for a
living so don't take this as professional advice.
-Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 07:22:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Syrinx <syrinx@dreamt.org>
To: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
Subject: re: X-giving
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.971204072137.12606A-100000@astro.ocis.temple.edu>
> >> It means we get together with our families, eat turkeys, and
> >> watch (American) football. Or something like that. :)
> >
> > Isn't that what Christmas is all about? :-)
>
> No, at Christmas we eat ham. :)
"no, not ham, you fat fuck!"
"christmas is about something way more important."
"what?"
"presents."
* * * * * * * *
e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com
erotomania!: http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/
offical lemur voice homepage:
http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm
maintainer of the genesis frequently asked questions list:
http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/genesis/genesis-faq.htm
(c) 1997 Erotomania, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 07:24:23 -0600
From: AL <al@isd.net>
To: YTSE Jammers 880480531 <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: DT Tape for Wazoodust@aol.com
Message-ID: <3486AF06.CCA9ACFA@isd.net>
I don't know what your friend's music listening habits are, but this
should be a good
representation of the broad range of DT. Best of all, it fits onto a 90
minute tape with
a minimal amount of slack space.
Be careful cueing side 2, it's a little tight depending on the cassette
manufacturer.
Side 1
Trail Of Tears (FII) 13:07
Hell's Kitchen (FII) 4:16
Lines In The Sand (FII) 12:05
Learning To Live (IAW) 11:30
The Silent Man (Awake) 3:48
Running Time 44:46
Side 2
Scarred (Awake) 11:00
Metropolis (IAW) 9:30
Take Away My Pain (FII) 6:03
Lifting Shadows Off A Dream (Awake) 6:05
Just Let Me Breathe (FII) 5:28
Another Day (IAW) 4:22
Wait For Sleep (IAW) 2:31
Running Time 44:59
I hope this helps. See ya, AL...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 14:45:09 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Surfage
Message-ID: <3486C1F5.28D9@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Surf over to http://www.cddb.com, click on "CDDB Search Engine" and
search for "Dream Theater". Some interesting results. And of course,
there are 4 entries returned if you search for "Dream Theatre", but at
least the former returns more :)
Regards,
Jon
-- *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*"The Apollo Guidance Computer was primitive by any modern comparison having but 72 kilobytes of ROM and 4 kilobytes of RAM"
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3317 **************************
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