YTSEJAM Digest 3329
Today's Topics:
1) Re: 20-minute songs
by Matthew Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
2) prog and maiden
by RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
3) Re: The Progressive DT and the Progressive Metallica
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
4) John Myung
by Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
5) Soundtracks...
by Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
6) Progressive
by Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
7) Tolkien
by Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
8) Re: Japanese "Hollow Years" EP
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
9) ** A Tribute to FATES WARNING **
by "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
10) Thank you
by rickbond <rickbond@concentric.net>
11) Fates preshow on 13 Dec 97/Nothing into Nothing
by Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
12) Fates Pics
by someone@prognosis.com
13) Dt pictures
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@cariibe.net>
14) Rare stuff?
by Mike Stoner <mdstoner@pcocd2.intel.com>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3327
by "Alison 'not an engineer' Clark" <clarka@stu.beloit.edu>
16) MD setlist - NDTC
by Cassiano Barbosa <geoimage@opus.com.br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:21:54 -0500
From: Matthew Robbins-McDaniel <cfi@disknet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: 20-minute songs
Message-ID: <348B1371.D4DC5785@disknet.com>
Here's one more to add to the list:
"Triology of Knowledge" by Believer. It clocks in at just over 21 minutes (if you
include the intro and all three parts). On the CD it is seperated into 4 tracks,
but it is all one song. Guess I'd classify it as Symphonic Prog Thrash Metal.
~Matt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:47:35 -0500 (EST)
From: RASI2290@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: prog and maiden
Message-ID: <01IQWDVYSJSY002YH3@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU>
> But Iron Maiden has some elements of prog. Some. But I still call
>it plain metal (their album that resembles prog the most is, IMO, Seventh
I totally agree with this. I don't even think of IM as prog at all, but then
I started looking at all those cliches and they do have a bunch of those.
Another one is a high-voiced singer. I forgot if, uh, "blaze" has a high
voice, but dickenson sure did.
Gee, where *is* that x-factor CD?
josh
rasi2290@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 14:58:24 -0700
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: The Progressive DT and the Progressive Metallica
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971207145819.006c4d98@postoffice.syspac.com>
At 09:18 AM 12/7/97 -0800, DRulz wrote:
>Well, last night I watched Metallica play on SNL (who should also one day
>get fuckin' Dream Theater on!!!) and I thought it completely rocked (with
Yeah! I couldn't believe it when they kicked right into "Fuel". That
rocked.
>Then afterwards I started thinking... "How come Mike Portnoy
>doesn't really seem to support Metallica's new direction?" I always
>thought Dream Theater was based on "Progressive" music, and I am a
>diehard supporter of both Load and ReLoad... I believe Metallica has
>always been a progressive band, but not on the same technical level as
>Dream Theater.
Yes, but people seem to not see "progressive" as a band that progresses
and innovates, but as a band with progressive tendencies (i.e. 5/8 time,
deep lyrics, high-range singers, keyboards, etc.). Regardless of what
others may say, I think Metallica IS a great band. I like their older
stuff more than their newer material, but I still LOVE all the new stuff.
They are truly a band that progresses and continues to innovate the music
scene they're in.
>It's different music, definitely, but Load and ReLoad is
>excellent music nevertheless.
This is all opinion, but if you ask the ytsegods, they'd say yer opinion
is wrong.
>If Mike Portney alludes to the "M" band as being sold out, well, let's
>just wait a few years and see where Dream Theater will be headed. Falling
>Into Infinity, I believe, is the first step...parallel to Metallica's ...
>And Justice For All (again, I am not comparing the music, I am comparing
>the direction), which was then followed by the black album.
...and just like "Master of Puppets", "Awake" is DT's masterpiece IMO. I
agree with Jason here, but also IMO the black album harnessed Metallica's
_sound_. I really like that album and I just don't friggin' get it when
people say that's a "sell-out" album. I mean, listen to songs like "Holier
Than Thou", "Struggle Within", "Sad But True", or the epic "My Friend of
Misery". Sure, the album included shorter songs that are more to the
point, but...uh...doesn't that sound like the new Dream Theater philosophy?
Trimming songs...
If you listen to bands like Dream Theater or Rush, you sound like a
hypocrite when you say Metallica sold out.
>Remember the term "progressive." It implies music that varies from album
>to album. This is what I want to focus on. Every one of Dream Theater's
>albums only belong on the albums which they are on, and not on any
>other. The same goes for Metallica. Thus, both bands are doing the
>right thing... because who the fuck wants to listen to the same shit over
>and over again? Talented bands must progress... and both Dream
>Theater and Metallica fall into this category.
Yes, but I must say that Metallica's music does appear stagnant at times.
Look at the rhythm figures that Hetfield comes up with. I mean, Memory
Remains, King Nothing, and the intros to numerous songs on ReLoad and Load
could all be parts of the same song. VERY similiar riffs, song structure,
and moods. Remember, though, this was all part of ONE creative burst...The
next Metallica album will be quite a bit different, since the last time
they actually wrote a song was in November of '95.
>So, whatever Mike Portnoy has to say about the subject, I believe in a
>few years that he will see the Metallica direction that started with Load
>as inevitable, and by extension, he will no longer consider Metallica as
>a sold out band... that's if he indeed holds this opinion.
I truly fear the day when DT goes the way of Rush. It's gonna happen
soon, and it's unfortunate. DT seems to me (this is just simply IMO) like
a band that can't seem to find their audience. I've talked to people that
heard Lie before any other DT songs. This guy thought that DT was a
Pantera-style band with better musicians after hearing Lie on the radio.
He picks up the CD, and they're only 3 songs on the album in the same
style. He got bored with the CD, and sold it. On the other hand, I've got
a friend that heard me playing "Wait for Sleep" one day, and thought the
band was a pop/Elton John type band. He bought the CD, and was pissed when
"Pull Me Under" thundered through their radio speakers. Yet another sold
CD. Now, I'm all for diversity, but a band still needs to find a basis to
go off of, and IMO Dream Theater has yet to find their _sound_.
>I love Falling Into Infinity so fuckin' much. I can't wait to see what
>they'll do next.
In closing, I must say that I agree with Jason in pretty much everything
he said here. I'm a HUGE Dream Theater fan and a HUGE Metallica fan. I've
been a follower of these bands for quite some time, and they're major
influences on my own personal songwriting and playing styles. I do fear
the future of DT's music, though. That's a fear I do not have for
Metallica. Metallica's getting heavier now. Heavy, thundering songs like
Fuel, Prince Charming, Devil's Dance, Carpe Diem Baby, and Attitude sound
more like black-album era Metallica than Load-era Metallica.
I truly hope that DT got a bit lighter due to corporate pressure. I mean,
their music has always seemed to get heavier and stronger from album to
album, but then their music got lighter and more pop-oriented (while still
being VERY strong material) all of a sudden. Remember what LaBrie said (I
think in the fanzine). Something like "We wanted to sound like Pink Floyd
in this song and Rush in that song so that we could capture the audiences
of those bands too."
Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see...It's only a matter of time.
This e-mail is obviously going to piss people off, and I don't care. I'm
not being an asshole here, I'm stating what's on a LOT of people's minds.
If you feel the ego-centric need to flame me, private e-mail please.
Thank you.
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/6933 |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 16:06:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Loren Caler <lcaler@flash.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: John Myung
Message-ID: <199712072206.QAA06726@endeavor.flash.net>
Well, after listening to FII for two(?) months now, I have to say
that John Myung is just fucking amazing. Nobody has really commented too
much on his playing (maybe it's just common knowledge), but I think he is
completely AMAZING on this album. To me, he's the one who stands out the
most in the band right now. I was completely mesmerized at both shows I
went to by his playing ability and sound. He has such a PERFECT sound both
live and on the album I can't believe it! Not only that, but after reading
the interview in "Bass Frontiers" (dissapointed cause there were no real
good pics), I found out that he wrote ToT! I don't mean just the lyrics, he
wrote the whole damn song! Of course the band elaborated on it, but it was
really Myung's song. Between switching up on 6,7,fretless and the Chapman
Stick, I think Myung's performance deserves some note. If you haven't seen
them live, or if you have and didn't really watch this guy, YOU'RE MISSING
OUT!!! And for those of you who are going to see this show, watch the part
in ACOS where Myung and JP double up on the 16th notes in Darkest of
Winters(I think thats the section). BLEW ME AWAY!
O.k. I'm done rambling....
-Loren
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:06:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Burstin <mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Soundtracks...
Message-ID: <199712072206.RAA08981@ruby.cs.brandeis.edu>
Sorrt for the NDTC, but someone mentioned the soundtrack for 5th
Element the other day... I decided to go out and buy it... it
definatly is interesting...
One of the most amazing "soundtracks" that I have purchased is the
live soundtrack for Cirque Du Soleil's Mystere, which is performed at
Treasure Island, in Las Vegas. They basically go on and perform this
every night live to the show itself... First time I listened to it, I
immediatly thought to myself... Floyd... some definate heavy PF
influences, as well as some cool classical influence. I am not sure
where this CD is actually available, other than at their various
shows and from their web page (http://www.cirquedusoleil.com/), but it
really is pretty cool... very interesting stuff... still can't even
identify the languages on most of the tracks (each track seems to be
in a different language, am pretty sure it includes at least Latin,
Hebrew, French, & some Eastern European languages). Its pretty cool
also, in that htey have a (very) small orchestra on one side, a small
rock band on the other, and some singers as well...
--
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
| A daily dose of eMpTyV | Dream Theater |
| will flush you mind right down the drain | Falling Into Infinity |
| --- taken from: Just Let Me Breathe --- | In Stores NOW!! |
+------------------------------------------+-----------------------+
Michael Burstin: mikeb@cs.brandeis.edu
Oh my God, they've killed Kenny!! http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~mikeb/
Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email: http://www.cauce.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 23:11:28 +0100
From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Progressive
Message-ID: <348B1F10.8005FBFB@algonet.se>
> From: Jason Keis - DRulz <jkeis@dorsai.org>
> Subject: The Progressive Dream Theater & the Progressive Metallica
>
> Then afterwards I started thinking... "How come Mike Portnoy
> doesn't really seem to support Metallica's new direction?"
He doesn't like it?
> I always thought Dream Theater was based on "Progressive" music, and I am a
> diehard supporter of both Load and ReLoad...
Regressive music...
> I believe Metallica has always been a progressive band,
I disagree, TBA was in no way a "natural progression" from AJFA. How changing
from more technical heavy/thrash metal into more mainstream & simplistic
heavy metal/hard rock is a progression?
> but not on the same technical level as Dream Theater. It's different music,
> definitely, but Load and ReLoad is excellent music nevertheless.
To each his own, but if you say it that way, then for some people greenday
is also progressive, since their latest album is still "excellent music."
> Remember the term "progressive." It implies music that varies from album
> to album.
No, it implies music that progresses from album to album.
> This is what I want to focus on. Every one of Dream Theater's
> albums only belong on the albums which they are on, and not on any
> other. The same goes for Metallica.
Excuse me?
> Thus, both bands are doing the right thing... because who the fuck wants
> to listen to the same shit over and over again?
I want an album that is as innovative, original & infulential as MOP, neither
TBA nor Load nor (I assume) Reload are that.
> Talented bands must progress... and both Dream
> Theater and Metallica fall into this category.
Of talented bands? That depends on what kind of talent you're talking about, as
metallica are becoming less talented as musicians (eg, Lars doesn't practice).
> So, whatever Mike Portnoy has to say about the subject, I believe in a
> few years that he will see the Metallica direction that started with Load
> as inevitable, and by extension, he will no longer consider Metallica as
> a sold out band... that's if he indeed holds this opinion.
Excuse me? It's inevitable to put out five to four videos from each album? It's
inevitable to become more simplistic? It's inevitable to start playing uninspired
blues based hard rock after you have made so much influence with your former
original & innovative compostions? I don't think so.
> I love Falling Into Infinity so fuckin' much. I can't wait to see what
> they'll do next.
They'll do Metropolis pt. 2, which would supposedly have elements of the I&W era.
Would they stop being progressive since they play the style that they used to?
I'm not sure being categorized progressive is about progression, it's about time
sigs! ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:53:16 +0100
From: Mark Bredius <bredius@globalxs.nl>
To: "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Tolkien
Message-ID: <01BD036A.3F7FD1C0@McCoy.startrek.GlobalXS.nl>
The Silent Man wrote "
> J.R.R. Tolkien, an author that wrote "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy,
> including _The_Hobbit_
Don't forget Silmarillion, the book Marillion got their name from.
They soon chopped off the first syllable, to avoid legal problems.
[]s, Mark - http://www.prognosis.com/itchy/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:42:27 EST
From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Japanese "Hollow Years" EP
Message-ID: <87238fdd.348b2655@aol.com>
Hi there -
This appeared a few Jams ago:
> BTW, one good news is here, Japanese edition of "Hollow Years" EP will
> out on 01/25/98 for Japan tour commemoration. It will have "HY" and some
> live recordings from FII tour or pre FII tour (TBA).
I'm kinda surprised that no one responded (as far as I know) to this post to
the Jam! Does anyone have any further info on this? I didn't even know one
was coming out in Japan. Are the tracks from the European CD Single going to
appear on it as well as the live stuff? Inquiring minds NEED to know!!! :-P
Curiously yours,
Matt T.
NP: Majesty "1986 Demo"... Man, I love these songs!! :-D
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:05:28 -0500
From: "Carlo D'Angelo" <helstar@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ** A Tribute to FATES WARNING **
Message-ID: <348B2BB8.3822@earthlink.net>
Jammers,
Considering that the latest shitstorm on the 'jam is producing some of
the most ridiculous comparisons to FW I've ever seen (some really good
laughs too..."Ray Alder doesn't know how to write melodoc vocal
lines"??? bwwahahaha....amazing)..but I think that perhaps the one that
really busted my gut was that the "Misfits are more exciting to see
live".....whew..that was a good one... :) I do notice that NOT ONE
person has commented on the lyrics/songwriting ....something which FW
have always been far superior in (among other things)
FII is great?! yeah right....the only thing its good for is curing my
insomnia. If the new DT had an ounce of creativity that FW has then it
would have been the masterpiece everyone hear was hyping it to be (too
bad "hype" is all I got)...I bought it...got bored...forced myself to
listen because this "WAS" DT of course....got bored some
more....realized that DT are but a shadow of their former
selves......sold it back and spent my money on better things.
Its funny....I unsubbed a few months ago and what do I see when I
return...same shit, different day. Good ole' jam....god bless the Page
Down Key. Bring back the days of arastar.com......please!
I'm sorry for the people who can't appreciate the deep rooted
complexities of FATES...you don't know what you're missing.
sincerely,
Carlo
..now for the capper....(up from the ashes once again...for all you
'vets)
/\ "THE IVORY GATE OF DREAMS"
/__\
/____\
/\ /__{}__\ /\ Enter ivory gates through midnight skies
/**\/________\/**\ Daylight dreamers in private parades
/__________________\ Perform before perpetual dawn
| [] []| As dusk engulfs the gate of horn
| [] [] |
|] [] | Ivory towers appear beyond the gate
| [] [] | Invisible fortresses of escape
| [] [] | Traversed by ramparts made of hopes and fears
| [] [| Impervious to reality
| [] [] |
|] [] |
| [] [] | A cold daze plagues the air
| [] [] | Driven by aging winds
|_______[]_________| The walls give way to the rush
|//*//*//*//*//| and let reality in
|/*//*//*//*//*|
|*//*//*//*//*/|
|//*//*//*//*//| //////// ////// /////////// ////// ///////
|/*//*//*//*//*| // // // // // //
|*//*//*//*//*/| ////// ////// // ////// ///////
|//*//*//*//*//| // // // // // //
|/*//*//*//*//*| // // // // ////// ///////
// // ////// ////// // // // // // ////////
// // // // // // /// // // /// // //
// /// // ////// ////// // / // // // / // // ////
// // // // // // // \\ // / // // // / // // //
///// ///// // // // \\ // /// // // /// ////////
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:35:18 -0500
From: rickbond <rickbond@concentric.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Thank you
Message-ID: <348B32B6.1EF50FA1@concentric.net>
Thanks to all that replied to me about not receiving the jam for a
while. While I'm at it...what happened to the Metropolis list. Is that
still active? If so, did it unsub people as well? Thanks. Found out
through my guitarist that DT is playing in Boston on the 13th...we
should be there. I'm psyched about it!
Take Care
Rick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:36:14 -0500
From: Kevin Madden <kwmadden@pipeline.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com, fates@tier.net
Subject: Fates preshow on 13 Dec 97/Nothing into Nothing
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971207233614.0069bd7c@pop.pipeline.com>
For some reason this did not make the last jam.
Ok, people, are we going to have a Fates pre-show get together
on Saturday? Merlo? Pat? Mike? Hartman? Steve? Etc? I figure we can
either go to the pizza joint next to Jaxx, or I suppose the Chi-chi's
we went to last time... send me some e-mail if you are interested!
As for Mr Longshot's question about "let nothing bleed into nothing"
you have to add the implied first person pronoun for it to make
sense: (I) let nothing bleed into nothing, and (I) did nothing at
all - which goes along with one of Fates' most predominant themes
of being frozen by indecision and being unable to make differences
that would change things for the better. See "nothing left to say" and
"chasing time" (among others) for more examples of this recurring
theme.
Green Bay Packers - The Quest to Repeat - Detroit Red Wings
10-3 18-7-5
at Buccaneers vs Vancouver
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:31:24 +0000
From: someone@prognosis.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com, fates@tier.net
Subject: Fates Pics
Message-ID: <199712080026.QAA12588@odin.ax.com>
Hey all. The server Prognosis is on went down for several hours,
shortly after I announced the pictures. The archive's back up, in
case anyone wants to see it.
If you have any problems viewing the page, e-mail me.
http://www.prognosis.com/livefates
Chris Ptacek
someone@prognosis.com
http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
Go Home and Practice!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:02:49 -0400
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@cariibe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Dt pictures
Message-ID: <348B4738.99096194@cariibe.net>
Hi, has anyone taken any pictures at the recent DT Shows?
Have anyone scanned some? ... Anyway if anyone has any DT pics from the
Tii tour please email me, even if theyre not scanned, Im wiling to scan
them for free...
mailto:calfaro@caribe.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:44:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Stoner <mdstoner@pcocd2.intel.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Rare stuff?
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.93.971207173619.77573A-100000@frc998>
Coincident with all this talk about DT rarities, I happened to see the
Japanese Awake CD going for $36 at my local Dimple records. I'm not gonna
buy it since it doesn't have any music I haven't already heard, and I'm
not a diehard collector, but if anyone thinks that's a good price or just
cannot find this CD, send me a reply and I'll grab it for you.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:41:30 +0000
From: "Alison 'not an engineer' Clark" <clarka@stu.beloit.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3327
Message-ID: <l03110708b0b0c80fe7e1@[144.89.175.84]>
>3) Wasnt HY released, or about to be released, already? Shouldnt everybody
>be calling radio stations asking for it? *hint, hint*
I don't know about HY but I definitly heard Just Let Me Breathe on the
radio here. (Here being WJJO Madison, WI, USA) Call and request it, see
what happens.. (I went nuts when I heard it. My roommate thought I was
crazy.)
Alison
)\)\ , , /(/(
,,!,)/,/={ ~ Alison Clark ** }=\,\(,!,
//_)___) clarka@stu.beloit.edu {___(_\
>=='' \, (, http://www.beloit.edu/~clarka/ ,) ,/ `-->
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
"Bother," said Pooh, as he saw the mushroom cloud.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 05:13:17 -0200
From: Cassiano Barbosa <geoimage@opus.com.br>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: MD setlist - NDTC
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19971206051310.007c1d30@pop3.uol.com.br>
For all you 'Deth maniacs in the 'Jam, here is the set list they played
yesterday, here in Sao Paulo. It's not in perfect order, but hey, I was
just enjoying the show... :)
Holy Wars...The Punishment Due
Sin
Reckoning Day
Angry Again
A Secret Place
Almost Honest
She-Wolf
A Tout Le Monde
In My Darkest Hour
Use The Man
Trust
Sweating Bullets
Symphony of Destruction
Peace Sells
FFF
Peace Sells (ending)
Anarchy In The UK
---------------------
Cassiano
cassirad@hotmail.com
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3329
**************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 18:06:52 EST