YTSEJAM Digest 3328
Today's Topics:
1) Re: APSoG
by Derfelt <Derfelt@aol.com>
2) BMS Drums in the intro.
by GnRBrks <GnRBrks@aol.com>
3) Re: Fates (NDTC)
by "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net>
4) Michael Hedges and the Fixx (NDTC)
by "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net>
5) Re: prog cliches
by Mike C <secrets@i1.net>
6) Production, covers, and FW
by "Jason Birzer" <Longshot@pressroom.com>
7) The DC Jam
by "Jason Birzer" <Longshot@pressroom.com>
8) The Progressive Dream Theater & the Progressive Metallica
by Jason Keis - DRulz <jkeis@dorsai.org>
9) Boston DT Show
by "Kristof Redei" <totikus@hotmail.com>
10) Michael Hedges??
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
11) Concert review (NDTC)
by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
12) Re: Fates Bashing
by Mike Pontrelli <ponte@essc.psu.edu>
13) FII production (and then some)
by "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com>
14) Address change
by Derfelt <Derfelt@aol.com>
15) Spock's Beard
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@FH-Niederrhein.DE>
16) Hello
by rickbond <rickbond@concentric.net>
17) Re: Help Me Get Rid Of A Fraud.
by "Syrinx" <syrinx@mindspring.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 09:12:18 EST
From: Derfelt <Derfelt@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: APSoG
Message-ID: <dae886c5.348aaec4@aol.com>
In my opinion, A Pleasant Shade Of Grey isn't really meant to blow you away
immediately with intense dynamics and all that. Really, what were you
expecting from an album called "A Pleasant Shade Of Grey"? Traditionally, the
color grey symbolizes an in-between area or an ambivalence. So what if it
doesn't sound like A Change Of Seasons? Do you want other groups to copy
Dream Theater's style?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 10:15:38 EST
From: GnRBrks <GnRBrks@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: BMS Drums in the intro.
Message-ID: <ce28b745.348abd9c@aol.com>
>One particular point
>in the BMS intro, which totally PISSES ME OFF is when Mike comes in with
>the china cymbals, then the double bass, then china, double bass, and
>crash all at once. Crashed are on the downbeats and chinas are on the
>upbeats. Once all three are going, after about a bar, the chinas sounds
>totally fade into oblivion. Is it just my CD or is this part of the
>engineering mishaps? I've never known certain CDs to be missing certain
>parts.
I know what you mean. But I was playing along on this song the other day and I
couldn't believe the massive wall of sound that this drum part creates. My
head was pounding and I LOVE IT!!!!! I think that this wall of sound kinda
just washes all the sounds together.MP knows what he's doing.Think about it.
The intro to BMS is a very heavy and powerful intro.What he does fits very
well.It's not the same as Scarred where you need to hear every little part,but
its loud and boisterous and there really isn't a need for little intricate
sounds.They are supposed to make you sit up and take notice. Anyway,just IMHO.
Glen
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:52:02 -0500
From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net>
To: "DT" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Fates (NDTC)
Message-ID: <199712071545.KAA22306@indy4.indy.net>
> I don't want to insult anyone, but I just had my first FW experience
>with APSoG, and I must say that I wasn't impressed even in the least.
>There was a total of about two minute's worth of real composition on
>that album, and the rest was minimalist plunking! Anyone else agree
>with me, or am I alone?
> jason
You're alone. But seriously, I HATED Fates before APSOG, which is just so
brilliant I had to keep pinching myself to make sure I was really hearing
what I was hearing. BE PATIENT. Fates does not hit you over the head.
I'll take a mid to slow tempo any day if it sounds interesting over
balls-to-the-wall speed playing that goes nowhere. Besides, there are
PLENTY of quick, fluid parts to the album. And Ray Alder, who I could not
stand before, is just incredible on this album. I'm a fan for good.
Mike Patrick
Indianapolis, IN
mepatric@indy.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:03:03 -0500
From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net>
To: "DT" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Michael Hedges and the Fixx (NDTC)
Message-ID: <199712071545.KAA22312@indy4.indy.net>
I've been out of town the past week in Boston (nice place, but I wouldn't
want to live there, but when Lotus Development Corp throws a party and pays
the dime, you don't say 'No') and was really floored to hear about Hedges.
There was just a little three sentence blurb in USA Today, that's it. I'd
say there were about 30 people in the room when I read about it, and not a
single one of them knew who he was. Further proof that absolute genius
labors in relative obscurity while the mediocre rise to the top.
I saw him five times and wouldn't trade any of those performances for
anything. Man, it's almost like a death in the family.
Go get all his stuff.
The Fixx:
They were one of Rupert Hine's pet projects. And Rupert, being one step
removed from God himself - well, need I say more?
Funny they should be mentioned. I just read in the paper this morning that
Cy Curnin's solo album (their singer) is being released this week. I think
it's called 'Mayfly'. Also, the Fixx has a new album in the can
(YES!!!!!!!!), but there's no word yet on a release. As one of the truly
underappreciated bands in the last decade or so, it's great to see them
back at it. Maybe the world will wake the fuck up. Probably not.
If you're into trying something new, I think their last album 'Ink', which
was around '91 or '92 is their best effort as a whole. Great album. Also,
their live album, 'React' has all the songs most folks would recognize, and
it has some really monstrous playing on it. Great stuff as well.
Mike Patrick
Indianapolis, IN
mepatric@indy.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 11:43:14 -0800
From: Mike C <secrets@i1.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: prog cliches
Message-ID: <348AFC52.CCFB8A21@i1.net>
Would they be considered one of the front runners of modern day prog, though?
Mike
Rogerio Brito wrote:
> Just because something is 10+ minute long and based on literature doesn't mean
> that it is prog (for you Math people, A => B doesn't mean
> equivalence between A and B).
>
> A song being 10+ minute long isn't sufficient (it's not even
> necessary, IMO) for it to be classified as prog.
>
> But Iron Maiden has some elements of prog. Some. But I still call
> it plain metal (their album that resembles prog the most is, IMO, Seventh
> son of a Seventh Son).
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:32:28 -0500
From: "Jason Birzer" <Longshot@pressroom.com>
To: "The Jam" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Production, covers, and FW
Message-ID: <199712071654.IAA08229@odin.ax.com>
>I know that we're all skewed toward our favorite band, DT, but it seems
>like many of you are being blind sighted! How can all of you go on and
>say that the production is great on FII?? I have to turn the treble way
>up on the car stereo to companesate for the fogginess and lack of clarity
>in the production.
I agree with this. The bass on the mix was turned up way too high to get a
good sound from Myung. It buzzes my speakers in my car when a CD has too
much bass. Now I do like the bass sound, but it came at the cost of the
keyboard sound. It is the reason why people have been saying "Derek isn't
as good as Kevin." It is a big difference seeing him live.
>Further, my comments on ACoS: I hated the covers (why should DT do ANY
>covers at all??? seems absurd to me cause their music is better than
>anyone else's just about.) and liked ACoS first listen.
Because they wanted to do a tribute to all the bands that influenced them?
Because ACOS was a "fan" cd and a lot of us wanted to hear some of that
show? Personally, I like the covers. Particularly "Funeral For a
Friend/Love Lies Bleeding". It is one of my favorite EJ songs and DT did
an even better version. No complaints here.
>Further, why does Derek have to use the dirty organ sound so much instead
>of the nice clean sounds Kevin used primarily?
I guess you aren't a big fan of 70s prog. I happen to like the "Hammond"
sound that he brings to the group. Maybe that just makes me old fashoned.
(funny for someone who is 26.) Each keyboardist is great in their own
right.
>comes within 700 miles of where I &^%& live now. DT didn't even come
>CLOSE to Oklahoma City. What the fuck's wrong with Dallas??!!
>Well, I guess I'll never see DT live. Fuck. I really wanted to see
>scarred live.
Don't stress, man. This was a very short leg that they did to start out.
They missed a lot of places. I expect them to do a much more impressive
tour next year. It might even be better for you, whatever Mike is
planning. Also, they will have 6 months of touring under their belt and
they should sound better. Hopefully, they will get Spock's Beard to open
for them and give me one hell of a night.
About FW. I have tried getting into them many times the past 4-5 years and
I just can't. I picked up Paraelles (sp) and it just sounds like bad
Queensryche to me. I bought APSOG and it was an improvement, but it just
wasn't that impressive to me. Ray Alder is part of the problem. Hitting
some odd notes at odd times. It is also a little repetive to me. I mean,
how many times more can you sing "Let nothing bleed into nothing"? And
what the hell does that mean anyways? I even went to see them live and was
still not blown away. I don't begrudge any of you who do like them, but
they just aren't my band. Sorry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Birzer "One likes to believe in the freedom of music
"The Longshot" but glittering prizes and endless compromises
shatter the illusion of integrity."
longshot@pressroom.com Rush - The Spirit Of Radio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:42:53 -0500
From: "Jason Birzer" <Longshot@pressroom.com>
To: "The Jam" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: The DC Jam
Message-ID: <199712071659.IAA08261@odin.ax.com>
A note to those who were at the DC Jam (D-Man, Syrinx, et al) the pictures
have been scanned. I haven't been able to put up a page, though. (I
really have to talk to my ISP about that.) If you want a copy, drop me a
line in private E-Mail and I'll zip it up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Birzer "One likes to believe in the freedom of music
"The Longshot" but glittering prizes and endless compromises
shatter the illusion of integrity."
longshot@pressroom.com Rush - The Spirit Of Radio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:06:05 -0500 (est)
From: Jason Keis - DRulz <jkeis@dorsai.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The Progressive Dream Theater & the Progressive Metallica
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.971207114753.6333A-100000@amanda>
Hey guys, how are you all doing?
Well, last night I watched Metallica play on SNL (who should also one day
get fuckin' Dream Theater on!!!) and I thought it completely rocked (with
the exception of the flat Marianne Faithful, but I'll give her the
benefit of the doubt and won't judge Metallica's performance on this at
all. Then afterwards I started thinking... "How come Mike Portnoy
doesn't really seem to support Metallica's new direction?" I always
thought Dream Theater was based on "Progressive" music, and I am a
diehard supporter of both Load and ReLoad... I believe Metallica has
always been a progressive band, but not on the same technical level as
Dream Theater. It's different music, definitely, but Load and ReLoad is
excellent music nevertheless.
If Mike Portney alludes to the "M" band as being sold out, well, let's
just wait a few years and see where Dream Theater will be headed. Falling
Into Infinity, I believe, is the first step...parallel to Metallica's ...
And Justice For All (again, I am not comparing the music, I am comparing
the direction), which was then followed by the black album.
Remember the term "progressive." It implies music that varies from album
to album. This is what I want to focus on. Every one of Dream Theater's
albums only belong on the albums which they are on, and not on any
other. The same goes for Metallica. Thus, both bands are doing the
right thing... because who the fuck wants to listen to the same shit over
and over again? Talented bands must progress... and both Dream
Theater and Metallica fall into this category.
So, whatever Mike Portnoy has to say about the subject, I believe in a
few years that he will see the Metallica direction that started with Load
as inevitable, and by extension, he will no longer consider Metallica as
a sold out band... that's if he indeed holds this opinion.
I love Falling Into Infinity so fuckin' much. I can't wait to see what
they'll do next.
Jason Keis
aka DRulz
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 09:12:42 PST
From: "Kristof Redei" <totikus@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Boston DT Show
Message-ID: <19971207171242.13451.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hi,
Does anyone know the phone number of the Roxy where DT is playing
on the 13th? The ticketmaster site only has their own number, and
I don't want to order until I'm sure I can get in (the site says it's
an 18 or over show, can anyone confirm this or know how strict they
are?)
I'd really hate to miss this show esp. since I can't go to the Fates
concert on Thurs. (21 & over). Thanx in advance.
Kristof
----------------------------------------------------------
|Kristof Redei totikus@hotmail.com |
|"Sometimes the anguish we survive |
| And the mysteries we nurture Dream Theater |
| Are the fabrics of our lives..." "Lines in the Sand" |
----------------------------------------------------------
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:24:22 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Michael Hedges??
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971207152233.29190A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
Hi, people.
Would you please inform me who was this person (guitarist?) called
Michael Hedges that has passed away and that everybody is calling a
genius? I've never heard of him before and I'm actually very curious.
Thank you very much, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:04:05 -0200 From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com> To: Freaks R Us <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Concert review (NDTC) Message-ID: <347CF135.29869B3B@geocities.com>
Hey ye jammanoids!!!
Here it is, for your relief, my LAST review of this year. :)
Yesterday, for those of you asking "WTF is this all about", there was a concert here with Queensr=FFche, Megadeth, and Whitesnake. The opening band was a local band called Charlie Brown Jr., and when I got to the stadium, the only thing I heard was they playing Rage Against the Machine's "Killing in the Name", when I was still outside the place. :) Aznyway, I don't like them, I did not miss anything. A little wait, and Queensryche came in. It looked more like a Operation: Mindcrime tour, as most of the setlist was from that album. I have an opinion: Queensryche don't work very well live. I really like them, but their songs aren't very cool to listen live. Anyway, the sound was great: the bass was loud, the vocals clear. Some songs: Empire, The Mission, Breaking the Silence, I Don't Believe in Love, and the very cool mix of Eyes of a Stranger / Anarchy-X. A letdown: most of the show the sun was still shining. I really don't like shows in daylight. At night everything gets cooler. :) Another wait, and Megadeth came in. Man, are they cool. :) Opening with "Holy Wars", the show was perfect from the beggining to the end. A lot of songs from Cryptic Writings (I only missed "The Disintegrators", that'd be really cool live), and some old songs too. High Point: the Peace Sells / FFF jam, Use the Man, all the show was great. :) The sound was good, I think the bass and the vocals could be a little louder. By far, the best show of the evening!!! Whitesnake came in, and at this time I couldn't stand anymore, I was really tired and with half of my body aching a lot. :) I watched the show from far, and it was very predictable: lots of ballads, and some classic tunes ("Love Ain't no Stranger"...). I don't know, I think I would have liked this show if they played BEFORE Megadeth. :)
Ok, that's it. A weird thing: I received TODAY (yeah, Sunday, I never knew the post office worked today) Mike Bahr's "The Darkest of Winters". I ordered "Precious Things", but ok, I'm listening to it now, and it's pretty cool. Maybe the best sounding Bahr CD? Only LaBrie's vocals are a little low, could be louder. But that's not Bahr's problem. :)
--=20 []'s /**********************************************\ |* Marcelo Vanzin *| |* vanzin@geocities.com *| |* http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ *| \**********************************************/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 13:40:16 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Pontrelli <ponte@essc.psu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Fates Bashing Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.971207133750.17813B-100000@thunder>
For all those Fates bashers.. True.. the music is much slower that OFB.. therefor perhaps booring to some people. But interesting.. I fell in love with Apsog... one of my favourites.. and whenever I play it.. people walking by comment on how good and interesting it is.. people with no metal background or prog background. In fact, it catches other people's ear more than any other CD I happen to play.
Dunno what that means.. but I find it interesting. =)
-Ponte
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:43:11 PST From: "Neal Brown" <nealus@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: FII production (and then some) Message-ID: <19971207184312.14485.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Drums sound better? In some songs, they sound pretty good, like >lines in the sand. But they totally suck on Hell's Kitchen and >Burning my soul. (snip)
I realy like em. Very, very heavy. I prefer the lightness he had on IAW (fuck triggers) and Awake, but the heaviness is cool too. If only he would get rid of the snare he's got....ooh, if only he'd get the snare used on ACOS back....oh my =)
>One particular point in the BMS intro, which totally PISSES ME OFF is >when Mike comes in with the china cymbals, then the double bass, then >china, double bass, and crash all at once. Crashed are on the >downbeats and chinas are on the upbeats. Once all three are going, >after about a bar, the chinas sounds totally fade into oblivion.
Once the snare beats come in, the first china stops. The man's got a limited number of hands, ya know. (I know he's fast, but he's not THAT fast ;) ) I went back and listened to it. That intro isn't very intricate or anything, but it's very busy. Switching back and forth between cymbals like that is a pain, but MP does it all the time.
>Generally, the cymbal sounds are crappy on FII, compared to Awake and >IAW. Granted the double bass is very prevalent, and that's good, but >I can't hear all the awesome cymbal sounds, because there's little >treble on this CD as in previous CDs.
I agree that the treble is damp, but it's not that bad. I can still hear everything just fine.
>anyone else's just about.) and liked ACoS first listen. However, I >hate that poppy, wimpy snare sound. It just doesn't blend right with >a 7-string guitar.
Oh well. *lol* I love that snare. The first time I heard ACOS, when the band started up, I was like ick! They've gone alternative. But that fear was quickly abused by the band. The production on on ACOS (the song, not the covers) is better than the stuff on Awake, IMHO....just an opinion. Maybe it's got to do with the music. I've always thought that if I&W didn't have those (insert several thousand lines of, uh, negative comments about the drum triggers) drum triggers, it would have a better production than Awake....
>Further, why does Derek have to use the dirty organ sound so much >instead of the nice clean sounds Kevin used primarily?
Because he's not Kevin. Might be because he wants to avoid sounding like Kevin? The whole album has that "dirtier" feel to it....the monster bass drums, the dirty organ sound, the "Pringle can" snare, the huge bass....I prefer the cleaner stuff, personally, but I like the way this album seems more soulful than any other they've done...more hostility and anger. (I was listening to Lines yesterday and it struck me how passionate the whole band is....they're all getting into it, and it really sounds very "live"....especially at the end, when they're all playing their hearts out. That climactic riff is so forceful...wow)
>"..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen"
Hehehehe. This is the best sig on the jam.
Would any rabid Fates fan like to dub APSOG and maybe another of their earlier albums for me? I really want to like this band, but I need to eat, too ;) I got so much shit on my "buy this now" list...sheesh.
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 14:13:30 EST From: Derfelt <Derfelt@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Address change Message-ID: <57c0060c.348af566@aol.com>
I've changed my e-mail address from derfelt@aol.com to derfelt@usa.net. Please send any personal messages to that address. I'm shutting down my subscription to Ytsejam on my AOL address through the ytsejam-request address.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:07:03 -0800 From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@FH-Niederrhein.DE> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Spock's Beard Message-ID: <348B8077.22F6@kr.fh-niederrhein.de>
Hi
I have a question :
I would like to buy a Spock's Beard album.
Which Spock's Beard album should I start with ?
"The Light" or "Beware The Darkness" ?
I'm thankfull for any suggestions.
Arash -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://lionel.kr.fh-niederrhein.de/~ashouria/index.htm | | OR | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ | | | | by Arash Ashouriha | | | | ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 15:11:07 -0500 From: rickbond <rickbond@concentric.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Hello Message-ID: <348B02DB.48B96DAB@concentric.net>
I haven't received a jam in quite some time. Could someone e-mail me personally and let me know if this made it through and if it still exists?
Thanx Rick Bond
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 15:14:15 -0500 From: "Syrinx" <syrinx@mindspring.com> To: "A Ytse Besides Itself" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Help Me Get Rid Of A Fraud. Message-ID: <01bd034c$b0bfce80$f9dfcdcf@w-ostrich-1>
>Hi, everybody. > > I don't mean to send a mass email like this, but we have a major >problem. > > I need everyone to go to the following page: > > http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/asia-warning.htm > > just to summarize - i have found someone who not only uses my logos, but >uses my web format and even my FONT name. When called upon it, his first >"recource" was to flame. From there, he's backed down "somewhat," but not >nearly to my liking. > > If possible, i need you to look at the page and then compare it to my >pages. From there, you can email him at kayleigh@modempool.com and let him >know of his fraudulant behavior. > > Thank you for your time, and i hope to hear from many of you concearing >this issue. > > - mike. >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >e-mail: syrinx@dreamt.org / syrinx@mindspring.com >erotomania! = http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx >offical lemur voice hompages: > http://www.cobweb.nl/mcoenen/welcome.htm > http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/lemur.htm >maintainer of the genesis frequently asked questions list: > http://www.mindspring.com/~syrinx/genesis/genesis-faq.htm
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3328 **************************
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